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Which one of these was the most threatening in NW PVP History?
tarftgm
Banned Users Posts: 169 Bounty Hunter
Hi hi, it's me again with another awesome and interesting poll.
Vote vote ! Poll incoming.
For me it was a close tossup between Assaillant CW, Mod3 HR and GWF mod 2.
GWF mod 2 takes the cake though.
Vote vote ! Poll incoming.
For me it was a close tossup between Assaillant CW, Mod3 HR and GWF mod 2.
GWF mod 2 takes the cake though.
Post edited by tarftgm on
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Comments
(And make it double!)
TRs pre mod 1 were pretty nasty. But Sentinels just straight up would run pug matches.
But I didnt vote cause its the circle of life (circle of nerf/buffs).
To expand, pretty much once your team saw you were a GWF they expected you to almost carry them, even if you were still a destroyer.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
HRs, CWs, even TRs... they at least give you a certain illusion of a fight. Mod2 GWFs? Run straight to the node, take on all of the enemy team. Kill in the order of the weakest. Take the node oneself.
I'm guessing current classes can probably take on the Mod2 GWF with all out new mechanics in all the classes, but back then, nobody had anything that could take down a GWF whether be it 1vs1 or 1vsMany. Mod2 was the "last of the Golden Age" for TRs, and even TRs back then could manage only a stalemate by just staying in stealth all the time.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
In all honesty...
Mod2 GWF takes on the current TR (Any tree)
Mod2 GWF takes on current/module 4/module 3 HR
Nobody can beat that monster if it was brought back. The old unstoppable was just.... unstoppable. It lived to its name, literally.
If you say was, it does not include mod5.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Haha this is partly true.
The MAIN reason of the complaints though was because "Hindering Shot" passed through unstoppable (and ITC back then) and rooted GWF's in place.
Module 2 immortal sentinel with full regeneration could still be killed. But required tons of coordination to prone-lock and burst hard. Quite overpowered, but there was a strategy to follow and pretty much a GF-CW combo in premades was able to take the monster down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njjWfW5tFg4
4:40. TR-CW combo, GWF down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rcywc6_9nk
Same here, it goes down.
took time and coordination, but as you see, could be taken down (i think that's right before module 2 but survivability was pretty much the same. Difference was offensive power/ aggressive capability due to threat rush/FLS making it unkitable 1v1). Most of the thrauma comes from pugs facing BiS sentinels. But as the match above show, geared players could take down a module 1-2 GWF.
Current META build for TR is 10x more survivable than that expacially at BiS level. Proof is the 1600 kills 26 deaths or so of sicarius. And can deal even more/ faster DPS.
I quite understand the GWF thrauma, but it's time to let the myth go. Module 5 TR would beat module 2 sentinel just cause the GWF would not be able to lay a finger on current TR and would eventually die.
They give you a illusion of fight cause you keep thinking may be if i get him i can kill him. False. You never get a chance, and even if you catch him and drop his HPs, he will roll away in stealth a moment later and finish you.
You have a way to kill a module 2 GWF (prone chain and burst out of unstoppable)
Against a correctly built and played module 5 TR you just can't do shlt, no matter how hard you try.
Still, I have the feeling that Pathfinder HR with profound set at mod3 could be able to 1v1 it forever, with both of them healing until the end of times...
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
You seem to have forgot roar.
HR/TR's threatened to quit in mod3 because of that alone, roar would probably give the Sab a run for his money.
did not even have a need to come in close and no way to shift away of it unless way earlier then the attack. Even if you did shifted you could still be " returned" - since nothing can escape roar. This was more total game broken mechanic with not responsive dodges - yet at that time it was deadly and GWF with roar over-abused it at that time.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
Roar GWF was easily cancelled in premades, stated multiple times by premade players. Was OP 1v1, but in premade could be countered.
Roar GWF is destroyer. It was not tanky, was OP cause it could spam roar, then takedown and IBS the proned target for massive damage with capstone.
TR in module 5 have longer rolls and more rolls. This means the roar GWF would have a harder time catching them, even spamming roar. Would have a chance to catch the TR in comparison to current non-intimidation GWF, but before that the TR would kill the destroyer with their new shiny DPS. Cause with 1st wave of DPS module 5 TR would take off more than half HP of a destroyer. Then the destro would roar and most likely miss due to long rolls/ multiple rolls. Now, in module 3 the roar GWF would still have more than half HP and time to spam roar and eventually catch the TR. Now, in the 10 seconds feated roar takes to get back, the TR would finish the GWF.
With red glyphs a module 3 destro would go down fast even with old determination/ unstoppable.
I'll repeat it again: no build, no class since module 5 ever got close to a 100-1 kill/death ratio.
Never.
but whatever I guess.
probably only happens in premades now since most people are used to the 3 different trees in pugs. i have been seeing a lot of rogues get negative ratios or about 1:1 lately. the ones on the winning team tend to have better ratios, but that's about on par with the hunters/gwf's as well.
It's funny how they went from super OP to super squishy.
btw that was 3v1 not 2v1
and sicarius is not usuall tr u see every match and still
2 good players can counter him as well
I remember during module 2-3, when a module 2 GWF was on our base and i noticed 2 or more of my pug team mates were on him and being stalled or losing, all i needed to do was going back, prone lock in between unstoppable and he was dead.
It was OP, but it was "unkillable" only for those pugs who didn't know how to deal with unstoppable (spamming at wills on normal GWF and shooting encounters during unstoppable).
Yeah, it's "funny" but GWF already sucked pre-module 1, devs made usual balance mistakes but thanks to un-skilled CWs screaming "nerf unstoppable!" (while unstoppable itself was never the issue) the very core class mechanic got double screwed and GWFs are back to where they were pre-module 1. Hope other classes enjoy it. May be they also repeat themselves that they now win thanks to "skills" and not cause the class is overnerfed.
BTW, i still meet lost of players attacking me with encounters during unstoppable so i guess making the class mechanic useless was really needed to make mentally challenged players able to kill the GWF. Else they would keep spamming their at-wills and crashing their encounters on unstoppable and then go "urrrr durrrr Unstoppable OP nerf nerf nerf!!".
Guess it's also the reason why some players still see sentinels as "very tanky" while they are actually easier to take down than DCs, GFs, HRs and TRs.
TR here.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
May be that's why he has like 26 deaths and 1600 kills. Cause players know how to counter him.
Gannicus and Diamond are also not the average GWF but were both at the top of the class. What we talk about is the peak potential.
Current TR peak potential is sicarius and the likes of him, with insane kill/death ratio.
Module 2 peak potential were Gannicus, Diamond and the lemonade stand guys. And again, they were not even close to that kill/ death ratio.
The point is, if you give a class enough tools to be pretty much immortal and kill fast, it's not balance. And sicarius is not the only one with such absurd K/D ratio. Just the more noticeable.
If it was so easy to counter him he would not have over 1600 kills and 26 deaths, taking into account that he play mostly premades.
But i can also post a video of Nanners playing a premade and never going down. And that is pre-module 5. Since then TR survivability got a boost.
Ability to dodge a lot and go invisible and if you don't make mistakes never die, is quite better than being tanky.
Cause module 2 GWF was there and if you prone-chained and DPS focused him in between unstoppable he would go down. And it was doable 2v1.
For example, n*2 in leaderboard is a GF tank with 50k HP and lathander set.
Still gets killed more than a equally geared TR. Numbers in leaderboard.
Even a module 5 tank DC gets killed more than equally geared TR.
Numbers talk. Should make you ring a bell.
Perfect mix of tools to avoid 100% damage >>>>>tankiness.
You can have 1k HP total and 0 defense, if the enemy doesn't have the tools to counter your tools and can't lay a finger on you, it's the same as being invulnerable.
I had participated in thread against cws/tr/Hrs.Saying that ,i also add that nothing ,nothing ever comes close to GWF lethality in mod2.
Mod2 Sent IV was simply broken as broken can be.Even if you take now thew most troll vicious GWF player and tell him "you are in order of cryptic.Put to your class whatever power you want" ,he could not made a more broken class as Mod2 GWF Sent IV.
Mod2 GWF is the added sum of Mod3 Destroyer DPS,mod3 HR healing,mod4 GFs hit points and CC Immunie all the time.
Spamming unstoppable for 80% DR every 7-8 secs,for 6 secs ,what to say more.people that did not faced him just they cannot imagine him.
It is out of imagination,so broken it was.
About mod3/4 Hr vs mod2 GWF?lol.The HR could not even scratch the GWf.One mistake of HR and it would be oneshotted by the plenty prones and IBS the GWF had.
I wish we never see such a broken class again.
Second i put the early mod4 CWs.11k gs going 27-2 in domination vs 18k players.Just freeze freeze .dead.Sometimes not even using an encounter lol.
Edit: Pando was there at that time in forums saying the same things
Even a crappy low gs tr can kill about anything.
Second I wold have voted Combat hr from mod 4 - And high gs/power version with red dragon glyphs and you could do nothing - would die in a split second without even seeing that HR. If you had a strong char that could survive first round - they would just dodge away and come back once their encounters were ready again. If you met the mod4 melee hrs from the first pages of pvp ranking - You know what im talking about.
The mod 2 GWF - I say if I was playing hr and saw them coming, then I knew exactly when they would roar or use frontline and I would get out the range - and then they would mostly die - well 80 % of the time they would if not more. If I Did not see them coming then prone and stun infinite til death - but atleast you had a chance to see them coming. You really did not with melee hrs that had 50 % daily power available or the currrent trs.