M2 GWF was not that overpowered as people tend to think. They required specific build with a lot of investment and still were able to be killed. Even now GWF is very gear-reliable class and they underperform in mid GS bracket (15-18k).
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
May be that's why he has like 26 deaths and 1600 kills. Cause players know how to counter him.
Gannicus and Diamond are also not the average GWF but were both at the top of the class. What we talk about is the peak potential.
Current TR peak potential is sicarius and the likes of him, with insane kill/death ratio.
Module 2 peak potential were Gannicus, Diamond and the lemonade stand guys. And again, they were not even close to that kill/ death ratio.
The point is, if you give a class enough tools to be pretty much immortal and kill fast, it's not balance. And sicarius is not the only one with such absurd K/D ratio. Just the more noticeable.
If it was so easy to counter him he would not have over 1600 kills and 26 deaths, taking into account that he play mostly premades.
But i can also post a video of Nanners playing a premade and never going down. And that is pre-module 5. Since then TR survivability got a boost.
nanners didnt die but also made 0 kills
and abouth sic
his low death ratio is because :
no such thing as real premade were everyone has same gear comp maybe 3 matches out of 100
very experienced knows when is time to run
always plays in full premade vs semi or low geared premades
if he lose by some chance we all know what they do btw he lost only 3 matches
he run mid if he hits soulforged
were dc wait for heals
i played against him dc and me killed him few times until soulforged he run mid heal come back
now if i can do that better and more geared pvp players do it way easyer
A mod 4 HR wouldn't stand a chance against a Mod 5 TR, you're deluding yourself. Then again, at least you get to see the ranger
see or no its not important
its way more fun to fight op tr then op hr for me
at least if similar gear there is a chance
but mod 4 hr just look at bis tr he was dead
M2 GWF was not that overpowered as people tend to think. They required specific build with a lot of investment and still were able to be killed. Even now GWF is very gear-reliable class and they underperform in mid GS bracket (15-18k).
I don't 'think' anything. These people don't 'think' anything. Mod2 GWF is something that gets carved into your bones.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I will say this once again: if a well geared CW (kite the GWF till dead) or a HR (Indering + Thorn + CA) or a Perma-TR (ITC + Path of Blades + Gloam + Shadow Strike) could not be able to kill a High-Regen Sent GWF, is not the GWF's fault, but those classes' players. That "beast" (and yes, it was a bit OP) could be melted easely, not just in 2v1 scenarios, but in 1v1 too.
You could say it yet again, and that still doesn't make it right. Repeating stupid opinions don't bring it any more closer to the truth.
I've seen keltz0r or jerkface fight GWFs in mod2. If they can't "melt" them, no one can.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
That early Mod4 CW was the beast in my opinion!! They could take out the entire opposing party (1 vs 5) with a few properly sequenced attacks that could not be defended!
The Mod 2 GWF gets a close second-place vote.
So many people are jumping on the TR bandwagon because the pain is recent, but the current TR pales in comparison to the two I mentioned above. Hands-down. Over and out!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
nanners didnt die but also made 0 kills
and abouth sic
his low death ratio is because :
no such thing as real premade were everyone has same gear comp maybe 3 matches out of 100
very experienced knows when is time to run
always plays in full premade vs semi or low geared premades
if he lose by some chance we all know what they do btw he lost only 3 matches
he run mid if he hits soulforged
were dc wait for heals
i played against him dc and me killed him few times until soulforged he run mid heal come back
now if i can do that better and more geared pvp players do it way easyer
And that was old TR. Nanners sits now at 91 deaths 1700 kills or so.
The fact that he is able to engage-disengage at will is exactly the reason why TR survivability is too much. No other class can engage-disengage at will at no cost. Perma runner GWF can do it only sometimes, at the cost of DPS and CC (no FLS) and can still be killed by ranged enemies while running away. Any other class or build usually dies when losing and you see it in the death reports in leaderboard.
He manage to have 26 deaths cause the class itself allows you to engage/ disengage whenever you want, heal and come back fast. In case you lose.
The point is, a DPS class should deal DPS but, if caught, get lots of damage and eventually die. TR right now can do the first, but has free escape from the second.
It happens to me in PvP for example to meet permas or semi-permas. They can deal me constant damage, no matter how a GWF sprint. I follow their movements and i can, by skill, catch them with FLS in stealth. Then i proceed, if their deflection do not nullify my stun, to rotate them. If i do not 1-rotate them (and a geared TR can stand 1 rotation from a "normal" GWF) they roll away roll away and disappear the next second. Recover, wait for their CD to be over, and come finish me.
In a balanced situation, i would be able to pressure them and try to finish them while they try to dodge me.
If i manage to find you and hurt you, you must not be able to go back into stealth. The same as a proned GWF can't go unstoppable.
It's called counter. What you can do to prevent someone from doing something. TR now can do what he wants. Start from stealth, deal damage, go back into stealth, engage, disengage, it's up to them. And new mobility makes it impossible to keep up even with maxed and feated sprint. Too much mobility.
You either get visible when you take damage and the time required to go back to stealth is directly proportional to the amount of damage taken (aka if i hurt you real bad, like hell you can just roll away into stealth and go hide somewhere), or you move considerably slower when in stealth.
The second could work so TRs would be forced to actually work hard to evade enemies during stealth. Right now it's a walk in the park.
You forgot the Module 3. Prone chaining GWF's,
the mod 2 sentinel gwf's werent as bad cause they didnt damage much, you just couldnt kill them. Not really threatening.
The module 3 prone chaining gwf's got damage boosts and just had to spam prones on you to kill you.
You forgot the Module 3. Prone chaining GWF's,
the mod 2 sentinel gwf's werent as bad cause they didnt damage much, you just couldnt kill them. Not really threatening.
The module 3 prone chaining gwf's got damage boosts and just had to spam prones on you to kill you.
Module 3 GWF was easily cancelled in premades, stated multiple times. Was strong but was destroyer. Focus pronelock and DPS in between unstoppable and it would go down. What came after that was on par or stronger that that. Fixing Roar would have been enough considering the buffs.
But no, we got to go for "intimidation sentinels". Will never facepalm enough the changes the devs did after first tenacity introduction.
Best PvP ever was right after tenacity introduction. Felt slower, more balanced. Then, somehow devs decided to turn it into a pew pew DPS fest where everyone except TRs and may be HRs, die super fast.
The fact that he is able to engage-disengage at will is exactly the reason why TR survivability is too much. No other class can engage-disengage at will at no cost.
What do you mean by this? I am curious - please explain in detail.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
In terms of the game's overall PvP history, TR has overall been the most dominant PvP class; it's never, ever been a bad class, and has always had the ability to carry teams through node-contesting ability. GWFs and HRs come up behind that as the overall second tier of historically most dominant PvP classes.
I disagree. PvP was good for TR in beta, but once Mod 2 hit, TRs took a big downhill slide. They were really only used to try to hold nodes, and the only ones that could really do that were the perma-stealth builds. Any TR that was not perma-stealth would be destroyed quickly. It is really only with Mod 5 that the TR has become a "dominant" PvP threat.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Module 3 GWF was easily cancelled in premades, stated multiple times. Was strong but was destroyer. Focus pronelock and DPS in between unstoppable and it would go down. What came after that was on par or stronger that that. Fixing Roar would have been enough considering the buffs.
But no, we got to go for "intimidation sentinels". Will never facepalm enough the changes the devs did after first tenacity introduction.
Best PvP ever was right after tenacity introduction. Felt slower, more balanced. Then, somehow devs decided to turn it into a pew pew DPS fest where everyone except TRs and may be HRs, die super fast.
Yeah I know exactly what you mean. I mean I was able to handle mod 3 gwfs pretty good. It was just the case you get hit by something once by a gwf and you're done cause the prone chaining followed and there was nothing you could really do about it.
Now we got Intimidating sentinels, to be hitting with absurd numbers from an originally none damaging cc ability.
And til this day, from back then, I said all they had to do was make roar not go through CC they didnt need to touch it for anything else. Of course the devs put thier usual special touches whenever they change stuff.
I don't see the sent gwf of mod as being the all time most threatening. You could SEE it. You could kite it off a node. A good HR would excel at this and eventually kill a gwf sent. You can't kite and can't counter what you can't see.
Comments
nanners didnt die but also made 0 kills
and abouth sic
his low death ratio is because :
no such thing as real premade were everyone has same gear comp maybe 3 matches out of 100
very experienced knows when is time to run
always plays in full premade vs semi or low geared premades
if he lose by some chance we all know what they do btw he lost only 3 matches
he run mid if he hits soulforged
were dc wait for heals
i played against him dc and me killed him few times until soulforged he run mid heal come back
now if i can do that better and more geared pvp players do it way easyer
A mod 4 HR wouldn't stand a chance against a Mod 5 TR, you're deluding yourself. Then again, at least you get to see the ranger
see or no its not important
its way more fun to fight op tr then op hr for me
at least if similar gear there is a chance
but mod 4 hr just look at bis tr he was dead
I don't 'think' anything. These people don't 'think' anything. Mod2 GWF is something that gets carved into your bones.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
You could say it yet again, and that still doesn't make it right. Repeating stupid opinions don't bring it any more closer to the truth.
I've seen keltz0r or jerkface fight GWFs in mod2. If they can't "melt" them, no one can.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I can confirm.
Old module 2 GWF's used to face-tank and lol at these guys' Duelist's Flurry.
The Mod 2 GWF gets a close second-place vote.
So many people are jumping on the TR bandwagon because the pain is recent, but the current TR pales in comparison to the two I mentioned above. Hands-down. Over and out!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
And that was old TR. Nanners sits now at 91 deaths 1700 kills or so.
The fact that he is able to engage-disengage at will is exactly the reason why TR survivability is too much. No other class can engage-disengage at will at no cost. Perma runner GWF can do it only sometimes, at the cost of DPS and CC (no FLS) and can still be killed by ranged enemies while running away. Any other class or build usually dies when losing and you see it in the death reports in leaderboard.
He manage to have 26 deaths cause the class itself allows you to engage/ disengage whenever you want, heal and come back fast. In case you lose.
The point is, a DPS class should deal DPS but, if caught, get lots of damage and eventually die. TR right now can do the first, but has free escape from the second.
It happens to me in PvP for example to meet permas or semi-permas. They can deal me constant damage, no matter how a GWF sprint. I follow their movements and i can, by skill, catch them with FLS in stealth. Then i proceed, if their deflection do not nullify my stun, to rotate them. If i do not 1-rotate them (and a geared TR can stand 1 rotation from a "normal" GWF) they roll away roll away and disappear the next second. Recover, wait for their CD to be over, and come finish me.
In a balanced situation, i would be able to pressure them and try to finish them while they try to dodge me.
If i manage to find you and hurt you, you must not be able to go back into stealth. The same as a proned GWF can't go unstoppable.
It's called counter. What you can do to prevent someone from doing something. TR now can do what he wants. Start from stealth, deal damage, go back into stealth, engage, disengage, it's up to them. And new mobility makes it impossible to keep up even with maxed and feated sprint. Too much mobility.
You either get visible when you take damage and the time required to go back to stealth is directly proportional to the amount of damage taken (aka if i hurt you real bad, like hell you can just roll away into stealth and go hide somewhere), or you move considerably slower when in stealth.
The second could work so TRs would be forced to actually work hard to evade enemies during stealth. Right now it's a walk in the park.
the mod 2 sentinel gwf's werent as bad cause they didnt damage much, you just couldnt kill them. Not really threatening.
The module 3 prone chaining gwf's got damage boosts and just had to spam prones on you to kill you.
Module 3 GWF was easily cancelled in premades, stated multiple times. Was strong but was destroyer. Focus pronelock and DPS in between unstoppable and it would go down. What came after that was on par or stronger that that. Fixing Roar would have been enough considering the buffs.
But no, we got to go for "intimidation sentinels". Will never facepalm enough the changes the devs did after first tenacity introduction.
Best PvP ever was right after tenacity introduction. Felt slower, more balanced. Then, somehow devs decided to turn it into a pew pew DPS fest where everyone except TRs and may be HRs, die super fast.
What do you mean by this? I am curious - please explain in detail.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I disagree. PvP was good for TR in beta, but once Mod 2 hit, TRs took a big downhill slide. They were really only used to try to hold nodes, and the only ones that could really do that were the perma-stealth builds. Any TR that was not perma-stealth would be destroyed quickly. It is really only with Mod 5 that the TR has become a "dominant" PvP threat.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Yeah I know exactly what you mean. I mean I was able to handle mod 3 gwfs pretty good. It was just the case you get hit by something once by a gwf and you're done cause the prone chaining followed and there was nothing you could really do about it.
Now we got Intimidating sentinels, to be hitting with absurd numbers from an originally none damaging cc ability.
And til this day, from back then, I said all they had to do was make roar not go through CC they didnt need to touch it for anything else. Of course the devs put thier usual special touches whenever they change stuff.