But yes, pvp has become pointless for non TR/DC/HR/SW classes.
I think you should have add GWF because they still not doing to bad either. The geared ones deal alot of damage and are great at running from point to point for harassment. I think this mod is really not that bad compared to the other pvp wise. PvE wise though.....yea
Well just done a few PvP matches, with quite high leveled team mates I might add (20k+) and we found ourselves unable to kill a 16k dc with 4 men. Anyone else finding this quite a pain? I'm not sure if this is due to the recent class changes or some kind of bug... Anyone enlighten me as to how/why this is occurring?
it depends on what you have in party. If you have no cws ya thats the problem. And you will need "burn" cws as i like to call us. It wont matter if its a 50k hp dc it will die. As long as you protect us. The days of all melee premades are very dead. As well as the "freeze cws" they will die regardless of hp. You have to have a very very strong cc/dps combo to kill a dc. But honestly I would think I good tr should be able to do it as well. Unless.....its still trying to be a perma which yea not gonna happen XD. When i go in a premade its 1 gf, 1 gwf, 2 cw's and a dc. Wen't 15-0 against mainly fighting other premades. I think its just that everyone got caught up on hp and not many have really good dps. other than that yes a dc is super killable.
And no I dont think their abilities should change but the community its self. Before there was no need to have the ranged classes other than hr in party now that has chanced as they can actually die now o.O. For the record not saying you party was fail but just not suited to cc the heck out of it "maybe". However if you run into this unkillable dc again I wanna know who it is!!! I like a good fight! Can it out heal the damage? Will it out heal the damage? Find out next time on D&D XD lol
Devil's Advocate: I thought the *point* of PvP was to capture nodes, not kill other players; the primary goal being node-capture, killing other players serving only to make that easier.
//justsaying
That was the case before the PvP achievements and Leaderboard.
Riiight. Probably only TR, GF (with KC) and CW (with Ice knife) can hit for over 45% hp in one shot. And without 100% success as well.
And now permahealer DC holds nodes better than permastealth TRs. You can't kill them with 1, 2 or even the whole team. Put 3 DCs in a team and your opponents won't get a single point.
//Just saying
Fair enough.
This is my (only slightly off-topic) comment regarding the DC class and PvP: I find it completely ironic how no one ever cared about a DC for the last 18 months when talking PvP; they laughed at the class, called it the *Sh*t* class. Now that DC is finally and belatedly brought up-to-par with all the other classes people are shouting at a level just short of shrill (not really, but in some cases). Is the DC OP? Perhaps. But when talking game-play "balance" PvP is a difficult monster to measure because of all the variables involved, most being individual player skill. But we all know that already.
I am not debunking anything anyone is saying, and I agree (to an extent) with some of it.
The DC will get some nerfing and everyone playing one knows it. However, as all other classes have had, it is now the DC's 15-minutes of fame in the spotlight its not had since around launch time (Astral shield stacking, etc.). I've always had a DC as my main since beta/alpha times, it was always fun, but frustrating to play. But now, oh-yay-azzz! It feels awesome to see all the complaints about it for a change. (I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, I beg you to see our side of it in this respect). As to the thread, I shall say what everyone has been saying to we DCs over the last year: L2P (Not really, but it feels good to say it, so I must). LOL
Here's the thing: it finally feels like the DC's powers are actually granted by the Gods.
As for actual game-play: EVERY class can be OP, EVERY class has its weaknesses. TEAM play means working together to exploit a class' weaknesses. So there you go.
I am not debunking anyone's complaint. But the term comeuppance come to mind.
I've seen an EOA premade, and let me tell you that even the CW couldn't take out the healer. You know why? Because the main purpose of the DC is to heal and tank, so what's your problem? Also it's not impossible to take out a DC anymore. CWs aren't doing as much damage with storm spell and Assailant changes so just put a TR who's slotting Dazing Strike, Bloodbath, and Gloaming Cut.... Then bye bye DC.
Also if I'm not mistaken, the faithful capstone takes what heals the DC has done and uses it to heal them back up, so if the DC is not healing than the capstone isn't either. Don't try to delude people, a 13k DC doesn't stand a chance against 20k players (Not to OP but to whoever said that).
Yesterday i was talking to a 18k GWF in PvP. I have a full tank DC for PvP (something different from DPS, i wanted a full defender) at 11k GS (scrub).
He was complaining cause he couldn't kill me fast but it would take tons of time. "But you're 11k" he told me and complimented me for my tnkiness. And i'd say, yes, i'm 11k, but i'm a full tank. 100% tankiness. No enemy at my GS must kill me 1v1 cause i can't kill him either, and even if you are a 18k but not full DPS (no one is full DPS in PvP) you must feel the tankiness of a 100% tank healer. Just like a 100% defender tank GF would still take some time to go down, even 11k vs 18k.
Where something is unbalanced, let's balance it. DCs will get fixes. But, to quote the guy above:
get use to the fact that DC are not training dummy anymore
you wana kill healer DC
use control and don't let him heal himself.
Else, expect to face a huge wall of rubber absorbing tons of damage.
personally i don't see what's wrong with clerics having enough heals to survive multiple people when they can't really do dps themselves. it used to be like that before they got caught in the blast radius with the gwf immortality nerf.
11k DC vs 18k gwf is a draw/stalemete, ok, why not. Whick 18k class is stalemated by a 11k gwf?
Never wrote stalemate, but he could kill me 1v1 but not fast.
And it was GF. GG for not even reading.
Now, a full tank DC deals no damage so must be able to tank multiple enemies, hope we all agree on that cause else it means you want a tank DC to deal zero damage and be easy prey, so GTFO if that's the case.
Now that we all agree how a tank DC should be able to actually TANK multiple enemies while supporting his team, we can also agree that if i must be able to tank multiple 11k enemies with my 11k DC, let's say 3v1 all 11k GS, it's also obvious that it's not weird if a 18k in 1v1 cannot kill me fast.
Or may be you want tank DCs to be like in module 4, dealing 0 damage, healing nothing and struggling to even tank 2v1.
Right now my 11k DC can tank multiple enemies, feels tanky, feels supporting but if focused with CC can go down.
What must be toned down are the healing to team mates, but self healing and tankiness of a full tank DC must stay the same and you must accept the simple fact that a tank DC dealing 0 damage and being no threat, must be able to out-heal you 1v1 at same GS, tank for very long in 2v1 and tank but go down in a reasonable time 3-4v1.
In a group fight the "value" of a DC must be to increase group survivability (not make them immortal) while being able to endure focus by multiple enemies. The enemy must CC-focus to take the DC down and it must feel like you've to really CC-burst a lot to take him down.
i do not think dc's are insane 1v1 but in a team fight if the other team has a dc, they have a tactical and survival advantage over you. and if they have a gf using knights valor, then it will be even harder. you just need to match a dc team with your own dc team.
Or decrease the healings on team mates so it's more balanced and you can either focus the DC or focus the enemies 1by1 then focus the DC 5v1 and kill fast.
Sinergies between classes must be valued but it's harder to balance that too unless you force specific party compositions in PvP. One team will have better sinergies and the other, not.
I Have a 15k dc and its not good for other classes I can heal in pvp from 0 to full in the blink of an eye and it makes pvp pretty one sided.
I do hope they reduce it a bit in pvp so we can have more equal matches as it stands it not fair and no fun. Lets hope if they do Dc they do TR and combat hr too so pvp will be more balanced and introduce Gear score related matches not this team of 20ks vs a team of 10k to 14ks.
I Have a 15k dc and its not good for other classes I can heal in pvp from 0 to full in the blink of an eye and it makes pvp pretty one sided.
What's wrong with this statement above?
"I'm playing a class (because I like it as any other reason is just stupid) and it's not any fun when I can do my job so amazingly well, so I hope they make my job harder by nerfing the class I enjoy playing; please punish me because I want you to."
@Hoofit: either you've mistyped your statement or you're not being entirely truthful in it. If you you play another class and think the DC is too powerful in one way or another it's okay to proclaim it as too powerful. Don't be ashamed of your perspective - there is no need to pretend you are an advocate and as such advocating too much of a "good thing" or whatnot. A genuine DC player wouldn't say such things the way you've said it (and this is true for any class).
Hopefully it's just a mistype in your comment. You know: keyboard going awry or something. Hey, it happens!
In any case, because you believe your DC isn't fair and too OP I recommend you stop using any powers on your DC; you should just stand there and allow other team to just pummel you. That would make it more fun for you. Or, you know, you could just stop playing your DC.
there are some bugs to fix (sun burst knocking guard or cleric DPS still working after they die)
but in general clerics are not that OP
cleric have very bad control and control resist. if you cant kill cleric in burst damage try to control him
cleric powers are not always related to GS, 16k cleric might contribute to a party same as 21K cleric.
it was always like this
that's why you accept DC to your party even if he got low GS, and that's why clerics used to stack recovery
DPS cleric is new and ppl still ignore it
when I see TR drop smoke, I do what Bill Clinton did = go aside and don't inhale
when HR drop this big red circle on the ground, I don't get inside and check what will happen
yet when cleric drop chains on the floor, ppl insist of going straight in the middle???
when cleric cast 3 stacks empower astral shield, ppl insist of attacking only him and complain he take no damage???
ill tell you what you told me dozens of times
"99% of the clerics do not know how to play..."
I don't think the new patch made us smarter
My 12k dps cleric as a pug triple killing machine now. AOE dps is higher than on my 16k DC. No cooldown and being able to spam divine encounters 3x in a row followed by an empowered one is going to wreck entire teams once people get the timing down.
"I'm playing a class (because I like it as any other reason is just stupid) and it's not any fun when I can do my job so amazingly well, so I hope they make my job harder by nerfing the class I enjoy playing; please punish me because I want you to."
@Hoofit: either you've mistyped your statement or you're not being entirely truthful in it. If you you play another class and think the DC is too powerful in one way or another it's okay to proclaim it as too powerful. Don't be ashamed of your perspective - there is no need to pretend you are an advocate and as such advocating too much of a "good thing" or whatnot. A genuine DC player wouldn't say such things the way you've said it (and this is true for any class).
Hopefully it's just a mistype in your comment. You know: keyboard going awry or something. Hey, it happens!
In any case, because you believe your DC isn't fair and too OP I recommend you stop using any powers on your DC; you should just stand there and allow other team to just pummel you. That would make it more fun for you. Or, you know, you could just stop playing your DC.
//justsaying.
Nope I said it right I have a DC and they are over powered in pvp, unlike some I'm not going to do the selfish thing and fight to keep it unfair as the more equal we all are in pvp the more fun the matches are. Its no fun slaughtering or being slaughtered in a pvp match its much more fun to me when neck and neck because the balance is correct.
You word things as a troll would and sound very angry to me. Try being a little less insulting and don't think of your self all the time telling the truth isn't a bad thing but trolling like you are is. None of what you say is in any way constructive just insults and assumption, you do know what they say about people who assume things and insult don't you?
Comments
Steel and Magic
Hire a TR to kill the DC.
But yes, pvp has become pointless for non TR/DC/HR/SW classes.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
I think you should have add GWF because they still not doing to bad either. The geared ones deal alot of damage and are great at running from point to point for harassment. I think this mod is really not that bad compared to the other pvp wise. PvE wise though.....yea
it depends on what you have in party. If you have no cws ya thats the problem. And you will need "burn" cws as i like to call us. It wont matter if its a 50k hp dc it will die. As long as you protect us. The days of all melee premades are very dead. As well as the "freeze cws" they will die regardless of hp. You have to have a very very strong cc/dps combo to kill a dc. But honestly I would think I good tr should be able to do it as well. Unless.....its still trying to be a perma which yea not gonna happen XD. When i go in a premade its 1 gf, 1 gwf, 2 cw's and a dc. Wen't 15-0 against mainly fighting other premades. I think its just that everyone got caught up on hp and not many have really good dps. other than that yes a dc is super killable.
And no I dont think their abilities should change but the community its self. Before there was no need to have the ranged classes other than hr in party now that has chanced as they can actually die now o.O. For the record not saying you party was fail but just not suited to cc the heck out of it "maybe". However if you run into this unkillable dc again I wanna know who it is!!! I like a good fight! Can it out heal the damage? Will it out heal the damage? Find out next time on D&D XD lol
That was the case before the PvP achievements and Leaderboard.
Fair enough.
This is my (only slightly off-topic) comment regarding the DC class and PvP: I find it completely ironic how no one ever cared about a DC for the last 18 months when talking PvP; they laughed at the class, called it the *Sh*t* class. Now that DC is finally and belatedly brought up-to-par with all the other classes people are shouting at a level just short of shrill (not really, but in some cases). Is the DC OP? Perhaps. But when talking game-play "balance" PvP is a difficult monster to measure because of all the variables involved, most being individual player skill. But we all know that already.
I am not debunking anything anyone is saying, and I agree (to an extent) with some of it.
The DC will get some nerfing and everyone playing one knows it. However, as all other classes have had, it is now the DC's 15-minutes of fame in the spotlight its not had since around launch time (Astral shield stacking, etc.). I've always had a DC as my main since beta/alpha times, it was always fun, but frustrating to play. But now, oh-yay-azzz! It feels awesome to see all the complaints about it for a change. (I am not trying to ruffle any feathers, I beg you to see our side of it in this respect). As to the thread, I shall say what everyone has been saying to we DCs over the last year: L2P (Not really, but it feels good to say it, so I must). LOL
Here's the thing: it finally feels like the DC's powers are actually granted by the Gods.
As for actual game-play: EVERY class can be OP, EVERY class has its weaknesses. TEAM play means working together to exploit a class' weaknesses. So there you go.
I am not debunking anyone's complaint. But the term comeuppance come to mind.
Also if I'm not mistaken, the faithful capstone takes what heals the DC has done and uses it to heal them back up, so if the DC is not healing than the capstone isn't either. Don't try to delude people, a 13k DC doesn't stand a chance against 20k players (Not to OP but to whoever said that).
He was complaining cause he couldn't kill me fast but it would take tons of time. "But you're 11k" he told me and complimented me for my tnkiness. And i'd say, yes, i'm 11k, but i'm a full tank. 100% tankiness. No enemy at my GS must kill me 1v1 cause i can't kill him either, and even if you are a 18k but not full DPS (no one is full DPS in PvP) you must feel the tankiness of a 100% tank healer. Just like a 100% defender tank GF would still take some time to go down, even 11k vs 18k.
Where something is unbalanced, let's balance it. DCs will get fixes. But, to quote the guy above:
Else, expect to face a huge wall of rubber absorbing tons of damage.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Never wrote stalemate, but he could kill me 1v1 but not fast.
And it was GF. GG for not even reading.
Now, a full tank DC deals no damage so must be able to tank multiple enemies, hope we all agree on that cause else it means you want a tank DC to deal zero damage and be easy prey, so GTFO if that's the case.
Now that we all agree how a tank DC should be able to actually TANK multiple enemies while supporting his team, we can also agree that if i must be able to tank multiple 11k enemies with my 11k DC, let's say 3v1 all 11k GS, it's also obvious that it's not weird if a 18k in 1v1 cannot kill me fast.
Or may be you want tank DCs to be like in module 4, dealing 0 damage, healing nothing and struggling to even tank 2v1.
Right now my 11k DC can tank multiple enemies, feels tanky, feels supporting but if focused with CC can go down.
What must be toned down are the healing to team mates, but self healing and tankiness of a full tank DC must stay the same and you must accept the simple fact that a tank DC dealing 0 damage and being no threat, must be able to out-heal you 1v1 at same GS, tank for very long in 2v1 and tank but go down in a reasonable time 3-4v1.
In a group fight the "value" of a DC must be to increase group survivability (not make them immortal) while being able to endure focus by multiple enemies. The enemy must CC-focus to take the DC down and it must feel like you've to really CC-burst a lot to take him down.
Sinergies between classes must be valued but it's harder to balance that too unless you force specific party compositions in PvP. One team will have better sinergies and the other, not.
I do hope they reduce it a bit in pvp so we can have more equal matches as it stands it not fair and no fun. Lets hope if they do Dc they do TR and combat hr too so pvp will be more balanced and introduce Gear score related matches not this team of 20ks vs a team of 10k to 14ks.
What's wrong with this statement above?
"I'm playing a class (because I like it as any other reason is just stupid) and it's not any fun when I can do my job so amazingly well, so I hope they make my job harder by nerfing the class I enjoy playing; please punish me because I want you to."
@Hoofit: either you've mistyped your statement or you're not being entirely truthful in it. If you you play another class and think the DC is too powerful in one way or another it's okay to proclaim it as too powerful. Don't be ashamed of your perspective - there is no need to pretend you are an advocate and as such advocating too much of a "good thing" or whatnot. A genuine DC player wouldn't say such things the way you've said it (and this is true for any class).
Hopefully it's just a mistype in your comment. You know: keyboard going awry or something. Hey, it happens!
In any case, because you believe your DC isn't fair and too OP I recommend you stop using any powers on your DC; you should just stand there and allow other team to just pummel you. That would make it more fun for you. Or, you know, you could just stop playing your DC.
//justsaying.
but in general clerics are not that OP
cleric have very bad control and control resist. if you cant kill cleric in burst damage try to control him
cleric powers are not always related to GS, 16k cleric might contribute to a party same as 21K cleric.
it was always like this
that's why you accept DC to your party even if he got low GS, and that's why clerics used to stack recovery
DPS cleric is new and ppl still ignore it
when I see TR drop smoke, I do what Bill Clinton did = go aside and don't inhale
when HR drop this big red circle on the ground, I don't get inside and check what will happen
yet when cleric drop chains on the floor, ppl insist of going straight in the middle???
when cleric cast 3 stacks empower astral shield, ppl insist of attacking only him and complain he take no damage???
ill tell you what you told me dozens of times
"99% of the clerics do not know how to play..."
I don't think the new patch made us smarter
3 stack divine astral shield absorb 9% of DC hp
since we were a puppets in PVP most of us stack tons of HP
now its worth it
Nope I said it right I have a DC and they are over powered in pvp, unlike some I'm not going to do the selfish thing and fight to keep it unfair as the more equal we all are in pvp the more fun the matches are. Its no fun slaughtering or being slaughtered in a pvp match its much more fun to me when neck and neck because the balance is correct.
You word things as a troll would and sound very angry to me. Try being a little less insulting and don't think of your self all the time telling the truth isn't a bad thing but trolling like you are is. None of what you say is in any way constructive just insults and assumption, you do know what they say about people who assume things and insult don't you?