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DC Powerhouse in PVP

herbalawherbalaw Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited November 2014 in PvE Discussion
Well just done a few PvP matches, with quite high leveled team mates I might add (20k+) and we found ourselves unable to kill a 16k dc with 4 men. Anyone else finding this quite a pain? I'm not sure if this is due to the recent class changes or some kind of bug... Anyone enlighten me as to how/why this is occurring?
My Class is Warlock ... "The darkness holds no terror for me, demon! I curse you now under the Sign of Ill Omen!"
Post edited by herbalaw on
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Comments

  • nuudlznuudlz Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Anyone enlighten me as to how/why this is occurring?

    Because you didn't CC the DC at all.
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  • herbalawherbalaw Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Was Putting chained CC on the thing, it just got up and instant healed all of it's hp.
    My Class is Warlock ... "The darkness holds no terror for me, demon! I curse you now under the Sign of Ill Omen!"
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    DC and TR are the strongest PVP classes at the moment.

    I don't begrudge DCs however. They should be tanky.

    I think you guys didn't CC the cleric
  • grac3n77grac3n77 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I cant inspect my opposing team gs how to do it? On topic maybe they are 2 DC and 1 GF you cant kill them I always see 3 buddies in PVP they always go together 1DPS DC and 1 Support type and 1 GF. What you can only do is capture a node, In PVP right now you cant just hack and whacked like old times when you have 20k - 25k gs team you may need a little skills and decision making when to use your skill.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    DC is insane now. One DC can hold a node forever. Like seriously, I have like 17.7k sentinel GWF and I'm unable to drop 14k DC bellow 40% hp. If by some miracle I do, he heals up back to full and does the same to his team-mates. That is insane!
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    grac3n77 wrote: »
    I cant inspect my opposing team gs how to do it? On topic maybe they are 2 DC and 1 GF you cant kill them I always see 3 buddies in PVP they always go together 1DPS DC and 1 Support type and 1 GF. What you can only do is capture a node, In PVP right now you cant just hack and whacked like old times when you have 20k - 25k gs team you may need a little skills and decision making when to use your skill.
    Press X during match and right mouse click on any participant to inspect.
  • jeffmwillsonjeffmwillson Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    You just have to learn what mechanic is healing them (capstone) when they are below 45% health and how it works. Im not going to walk everyone through it because if you know how the mechanic works, you won't waste your time healing them full every chance it can proc.
  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    only few days pass
    but you need to get use to it, DC got overhaul change and you cannot kill DC 20-100 in pvp any more

    I know that in the last 6 months you got use to it, but you should get used to the new situation

    I play DC (DPS path)

    CW kill me and do not let me move or cast anything
    HR do more damage and survive more then healer DC
    TR can still go perma stealth, but to be honest they will kill you so fast they don't need to perma anymore
    GF, GWF, SW can kill a DC no matter what

    so get use to the fact that DC are not training dummy anymore
    you wana kill healer DC
    use control and don't let him heal himself. a double 'blitz' attack of TR doing the job, and any n@@b CW do it as well
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Devil's Advocate: I thought the *point* of PvP was to capture nodes, not kill other players; the primary goal being node-capture, killing other players serving only to make that easier.

    //justsaying

    :)
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    jeffmwillson wrote: »
    You just have to learn what mechanic is healing them (capstone) when they are below 45% health and how it works. Im not going to walk everyone through it because if you know how the mechanic works, you won't waste your time healing them full every chance it can proc.

    Riiight. Probably only TR, GF (with KC) and CW (with Ice knife) can hit for over 45% hp in one shot. And without 100% success as well.
    angrysprite wrote: »
    Devil's Advocate: I thought the *point* of PvP was to capture nodes, not kill other players; the primary goal being node-capture, killing other players serving only to make that easier.

    //justsaying

    :)
    And now permahealer DC holds nodes better than permastealth TRs. You can't kill them with 1, 2 or even the whole team. Put 3 DCs in a team and your opponents won't get a single point.

    //Just saying
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If you say 4 ppl couldn't take 1 player down.... Why the heck were all 4 on that 1 cleric? 3 of them should go and, dunno, capture some other node maybe? Just sayin.

    Also, yes, they can survive much, but it's fair since they can't do much dmg.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    ulviel wrote: »
    If you say 4 ppl couldn't take 1 player down.... Why the heck were all 4 on that 1 cleric? 3 of them should go and, dunno, capture some other node maybe? Just sayin.

    Also, yes, they can survive much, but it's fair since they can't do much dmg.

    Who cares why. At one or another point that happens. Besides, like I posted above, imagine 3 permahealer DCs in a team. I guarantee you won't get a single point out of their team if they're capable. Add 2 BiS GWFs or CWs to that team and they'll happily AoE the **** out of you when you try to gang on a 'poor' DC.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    angrysprite wrote: »
    Devil's Advocate: I thought the *point* of PvP was to capture nodes, not kill other players; the primary goal being node-capture, killing other players serving only to make that easier.

    //justsaying

    :)

    I think this point is a bit misleading. There are only 3 nodes and a smart DC will be able to hold important nodes as well as rotate to the other 2 to heal players up
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited November 2014
    zvieris wrote: »
    Who cares why. At one or another point that happens. Besides, like I posted above, imagine 3 permahealer DCs in a team. I guarantee you won't get a single point out of their team if they're capable. Add 2 BiS GWFs or CWs to that team and they'll happily AoE the **** out of you when you try to gang on a 'poor' DC.

    I think you do have a point right now that DC and TRs are a valuable (too valuable compared to other classes) in a PVP party PUG or premade. I would like to see that get fixed by either nerfing them or buffing other classes to make every class equally a must to take into PVP.

    I don't want DCs to get nerfed too much if at all since I like their playstyle at the moment, but something needs to be adjusted to make all classes much more closer
  • jeffmwillsonjeffmwillson Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    zvieris wrote: »
    Riiight. Probably only TR, GF (with KC) and CW (with Ice knife) can hit for over 45% hp in one shot. And without 100% success as well.
    //Just saying

    Its not about one shotting. As I said. Learn the mechanic.
  • lerdocixlerdocix Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    zvieris wrote: »
    DC is insane now. One DC can hold a node forever. Like seriously, I have like 17.7k sentinel GWF and I'm unable to drop 14k DC bellow 40% hp. If by some miracle I do, he heals up back to full and does the same to his team-mates. That is insane!
    You have TANK specced and likely geared class and are wondering why you can't take down TANK specced healer with spec to survive burst.

    Do you see a flaw in your logic yet?
  • ulvielulviel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 741 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    zvieris wrote: »
    Who cares why. At one or another point that happens. Besides, like I posted above, imagine 3 permahealer DCs in a team. I guarantee you won't get a single point out of their team if they're capable. Add 2 BiS GWFs or CWs to that team and they'll happily AoE the **** out of you when you try to gang on a 'poor' DC.

    You may not be able to kill them, but they can't kill you either. Ofc we have dps clerics now too, but their heals are much, much worse. And they have no means to counter cc, so you can just push them out of the node, and maybe hold them away for a moment.

    Sure they are strong, but not even close to as OP as you think... you are just shocked they are not a free kill anymore and that you actually need to use some tactic against them.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    demonkyuubi wrote: »
    actually, clerics/gwf's are generally tanks, but guardians are just the best at it (in most games, clerics can replace the actual tank classes). the only qualifications for tanking is mitigation (defense/deflect), healing (life-steal or actual heals), and/or aggro generation. having aggro isn't always required, but all tank specs must be able to endure a lot of damage which all 3 are capable of pulling off. of course other classes can be built to be tanky, but the rest suffer in the mitigation part while making up for it in either deflect or life-steal.

    it's more like a stat graph with 5 levels indicating how powerful any class is in either category.

    You and I have been playing different games then. In the mmos I've played healer could be tanky but never as much as an actual tank class. Here, however, DCs are twice or thrice as tanky as GFs. That shouldn't be possible.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    ulviel wrote: »
    You may not be able to kill them, but they can't kill you either. Ofc we have dps clerics now too, but their heals are much, much worse. And they have no means to counter cc, so you can just push them out of the node, and maybe hold them away for a moment.

    Sure they are strong, but not even close to as OP as you think... you are just shocked they are not a free kill anymore and that you actually need to use some tactic against them.

    When you need 3 players working in sync just to take down 1 DC... That's a clear indication something is wrong. Also, DC was never a free kill. In mod 4 they could stalemate any one player and support their team too. But now we can see 1 DC tanking 3+ players on equal GS and not giving **** about that.
  • demonkyuubidemonkyuubi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    zvieris wrote: »
    When you need 3 players working in sync just to take down 1 DC... That's a clear indication something is wrong. Also, DC was never a free kill. In mod 4 they could stalemate any one player and support their team too. But now we can see 1 DC tanking 3+ players on equal GS and not giving **** about that.

    do you not remember pre-healing depression? clerics did it all the time b4 they got knocked down simultaneously to lower gwf immortality. some clerics at the time were tanky enough to hold a node as well as a perma-rogue
    zvieris wrote: »
    You and I have been playing different games then. In the mmos I've played healer could be tanky but never as much as an actual tank class. Here, however, DCs are twice or thrice as tanky as GFs. That shouldn't be possible.

    there is always a difference. actual tanks have the best defense but clerics in most games are like #2 in terms of defense. add in the fact that they can fully heal instantly and it pretty much made them unkillable if you couldn't out-dps their heals.

    same here except gwf's are noticeably tankier but clerics still got nice heals
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I'm not saying sentinels don't have any DPS, I'm saying PBI sents with maxed defense and defensive set bonuses WILL NOT be able to kill equally or slightly lesser geared DC.

    No rocket science here, just an understanding of how things work.

    There is no such thing in pvp as a maxed defence sent gwf they simple do not exist.
    Sent is all about getting power maxed as high as possible and over min 8k and if possible over 10k.
    Sent pack corrupted exept for boots where puri has higher power then corrupted.
    They use blue rings to max power and has as many offensive slotts as possible for radiants to max power, the defence they get from being sentinel......

    And it ok that a fully healing specked dc can outheal a gwf nm if he is destroyer, instigator or sent but its not ok that he can outheal 3 of them and still heal other party and that is what is going on.

    Anything with as much influence as a single dc can put into a game right now is broken -- NO rocket science here .....
  • bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If you just spam your encounters and daily while the DC is inside Astral Shield then of course you won't be doing much dmg.
    DC - VIRÄ CW - JÉNOCIDÉ
    Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
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  • bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Astral Shield does need to be toned down a bit. Heal is fine, we already have righteousness (40% less heal to ourselves) + Healing depresion (50% less heal).
    People are just so used to killing DC quickly, they're upset just because we aren't free kills anymore.
    DC - VIRÄ CW - JÉNOCIDÉ
    Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
    Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
  • reds351reds351 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Yea i just did a pvp match against a 13k DC and we were fighting with a TR and Gwf each having around 17kGS didn't even get it to half hp.

    Edit This is only some DC's i have fought 17kgs ones that die easy so what ever this build is its insane.
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    IF healing depression and rightousness works WAI, DCs have to be able to heal 200k+ before aforementioned feats kick in. The capstone feat of the middle path seems to be buggy. I fought a badly geared DC with my 20k+ senti intimidation GWF. He got hit by all of my encounters (no he was not in a astral shield) for more than 20k dmg, I tried to finish him with my daily and while he was up in the air he healed back to full HP. The daily power critted as well, so there where additional 20k+ damage to outheal. He died eventually, when focused by more ppl., but that cant be WAI.

    Sunburst ignores CC immunity WAI?

    Astral shield is the new get out of jail (death) skill?

    I play DC, too. I like the fact, that the class got some well deserved buffs, BUT if a DC cant be killed by a PvP DD with 5k more GS and can get him from a node, no matter what, with sun burst, it is broken.

    A 200k+ heal is just as OP as a dd dealing that dmg (before mitigation) on his own would be. The difference is, that the second one kills ppl and they QQ in the forum till it gets fixed, the last one just wins every match for his team, if the gear/skill difference is not to high.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Does HD affect GoF correctly? Seems like it doesn't. Anyway, there should be a cap on GoF healing stored. Like 20k.
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited November 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • ravenanravenan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 220 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    heh. I love to see how u defend clear opness. I saw 1 vs 1 bis pvp comat hr (22,5k gs 8k power etc) fighting 16k gs dc. And you know what? He even didnt get close to kill it. The most op class last mod couldnt kill 6,5k gs lower DC. If thats not op, that i dont know what is...
    Main : GF - Lord Kruk
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  • nameexpirednameexpired Member Posts: 1,282 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    DC can not be OP in PvP while not the whole first page of the leaderboard is dominated by DC.
    Easy measurement!
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  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    nameexpired wrote: »
    DC can not be OP in PvP while not the whole first page of the leaderboard is dominated by DC.
    Easy measurement!

    Reason one, there are not many PVP DC, second one, if you cant die, it does neither give you kills nor assists.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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