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It's just me or GF is really left out?
robotpolis
Member Posts: 24 Arc User
In Tiamat changelogs, all of the classes are getting new changes but I hardly see new changes to GF.
It's quite frustrating when seeing other classes getting new nice buff while GF still stuck with the same thing.
What we were getting were some nerfs while other classes dint really get punished that much. For example, we cannot prone, but CW can still entangle in PVP...
Whats more frustrating is despite the changes, the OP classes in PVP like HR and CW kept ranting/complaining that they are not power enough.
*just a sad ranting*
Your opinion?
It's quite frustrating when seeing other classes getting new nice buff while GF still stuck with the same thing.
What we were getting were some nerfs while other classes dint really get punished that much. For example, we cannot prone, but CW can still entangle in PVP...
Whats more frustrating is despite the changes, the OP classes in PVP like HR and CW kept ranting/complaining that they are not power enough.
*just a sad ranting*
Your opinion?
Post edited by robotpolis on
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You guys dont need more buffs because you already got a ton with mod 4 xD
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
If you would love GFs to get the same "change" as well next mod, you are welcome to ask to get nerfed too.
OP ?
We are far from weak but are in no way OP. TR and hr beats us quite easily and most other classes can be equal or give us a good fight.
Also I reported about 20 bugs that really affect the gf yet i don't think any has been fixed.
Gf might not need any buffs but we really need bug fixes and soon because a whole mod of them made playing a gf pointless to me.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You guys can one rotation people too - griffons is quite OP as well and lets not mention 40k knee breakers or w.e its called xD
In any case buffs are not called for - bug fixes yes maybe, and not saying you need to be nerfed because every class has its own OP skills too
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
Second note - goodmod - GF can wipe my HR on his shield. I don't know his GS but dam I admire how he could counter everything I had to put on him with my 20k pvp GS HR)
second thing - pve - having GF in elol is the best thing. CW /SW/DC are good. But nothing can compare with good GF in that dungeon. I don't know about Tiamat chalanges thought.
PS I not saying that GF may not need some tweeks, I don't play one, but seems like you had good amount of love in mod 4.
Nope. Nope even close. that's my opinion though.
First of all you have no clue what you are talking about. Knee breaker does not hit for 40k. If you get killed in 1 rotation by a GF, get more tenacity, and learn to dodge, itc, unstoppable, sunburst, slide, SOMETHING. Giffons is bugged to hell and back. If you use your dodges, GF's can't cancel it, and we can even lose 2 charges for one cancel...
So please stop playing against noobs and run with the big boys a few times and you'll see how OP they are lol.
If you get killed in on rotation, are you meaning he had a daily, he caught you out of dodge (he shouldn't be able to), you didn't soulforge? and get 1 rotation off to get to 50-75% hp? You need to be applying your dots, and staying away, and then get 1 fox in and he's toast.
I find it really funny because the fact that you even said that... L2P before you QQ. GF's got buffed in mod 4 because we were absolutely last in mod 3, and if you took a GF into pvp, you were going to lose if the other team was good lol. The class was unplayable in competitive pvp. Again, do some pvp with more than 5 GS bots, and you will learn to play the most overpowered class of mod 4 lol.
I just wish you knew how annoying it was to hear people say our class is fine when you have the amount of self healing and unmitigatable damage... Like, just hush.
GF's mod 5 - will be SMASHED by HR's and everyone will lose to TR's. If it is a 1v1 vs a healing DC we can win, if able to slot KC, if they are DPS, then they will own us. SW's can obliterate a GF if they have a clue what they are doing (90% are just bad). GWF's will beat GF's in mod 5, you jsut wait. Come and get it build used properly will smash us. Instigator buff makes them a shade short of the mod 3 gwf, and yes able to beat a GF efficiently if they have spent any amount of time learning how to sprint behind come and get it, frontline, intimidating shout, GG.
Lastly, L2P the most overpowered class since it came out, and realize that next mod TR's will make you feel like a mod 3 GF.
Good day
Oh you mean KV? Nerfed, Oh you mean SOS? wait, that didn't get buffed at all, yet it got nerfed to oblivion unless fighting a CW who is dumb enough to cast oppressive while it is up.
Do some research and learn what you are talking about.
Renegade MoF or SS is not even an option PvP-wise.
CW's can "entangle in PvP". Imagine that burst damage :rolleyes:
KABOOM. He has spoken
It can hit for 40k - godmode can do it. He is I beleive built offensively rather than defensively. As I said its ok, all classes are OP in their own way. Not asking for nerfs as I said, but you seem intent on making us believe gfs are weak when really they arn't. But such is pvp - my class is weak, buff me - nerf other classes.
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
thats how I usually see it when I slot it for fun during dragon HE.
unless if you are referring to the 40k Anvil Crit which can be hard to use since it can easily dodged AND not all GF can crit that hard or even close to that. for me, my anvil crit can hit only abt 12k crit in pvp.
plus, it took fair amount of practice to time it on classes with dodge mechanics + dem fox thing...
Indeed.
Crit kneebreaker with P.Vorp will certainly hit in the 40k range if you've been marked/tide.
^^^^
"YOU guys? "
Look at his signature fellow GFs .before answering to the troll...he is a SW......not a GF...
You are very wrong about gf.
First Griffons sucks. It misses charges and the duration gets debuffed by any good pvp char and the dmg is quite bad.
Second. Knee breaker does not hit anywhere near that, if it does your defense is just terrible. Also the only way anyone could get high numbers is with debuffs and knights challenge but thats just bad for pvp anyway so normal knee breaker is not even 50% of that dps.
third. Gf dmg is only 1 hit rotation once you have a maxed char and very high STR as i keep saying on posts. It requires a very specific build and items to be able to get this(usually a high STR belt) and that's something only about 5% of guardian fighters have.
But yes i would like some changes to the class, not necessarily "buffs". The main thing i want though is bug fixes, the list is just pathetically long and they all impact the gf in a very bad way that makes pvp harder and more glitchy than it should be.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Reroll a gwf, see which class is left out.
You mean the 'potential' to kill people, right? I.e. in one rotation you need to first set up your target with a series of debuffs, have sacrificed a Class Feature slot, 3 x Encounters and possibly a Daily in order to get a CHANCE at dealing significant damage during / after your rotation. This is subject to Critical Chance in the main. Majority of those Powers that you need to use in order for this to work are extremely situational i.e. they don't always provide a benefit and don't always work. Quite often, they are a complete waste.
It is not common (except maybe against a glass cannon in PVE gear) for a GF to be able to kill a similarly geared PVP player in their first rotation.
Essentially, you need to have done A, B, C, D, E and F and HOPE that B to F actually hit and aren't dodged etc. and that you Crit during this, particularly on F. In simple terms.... hope you've prepared enough with your Powers, gear and Feats so that the one rare opportunity that presents itself you can take advantage of and HOPE that it works....
Oh, and that is only available about once every 16-20 seconds or so at best....(and then it wouldn't be in one rotation...)
So yes, a GF may be able to kill someone in one rotation, yet you might as well compare it to dying by choking on a dolphin's eyeball (not my first choice of an example but definitely more polite).... it's not generally going to happen and requires you to take a series of actions in preparation in order to have a chance of it occurring.
Yeah the PVE GF is actually a lot of fun. The lifesteal works REALLY well because you can return a little bit of damage with them not having crazy tenacity, and all that wild defense. Lets not forget that regen actually works really well in PVE.
Granted - I realize that all of the other classes have even more crazy health recovery in pve, but it is still nice to play a GF in PVE sometimes and watch that HP bar go up up up. Then you PVP and it's down down down lol.
Damnacious, well said. The planets have to align for that to work. Godmode was a protector in mod 3 for the most part, switched to Conq this mod, and didn't really take up on the protector tree so he has been practicing the bull, griffon, anvil combo for quite some time. He has 1v1'd on the PTR a LOT, and him and I have spent a ton of time going back and forth on ideas and strategy so yeah, using him as your "norm for GF's are OP" - is about as dumb as you opening your mouth in the first place
Edit: The mouth opening is in regards to the non GF player earlier.
PS. GODMODE sure is one incredible dragon-spinner. Being good at PvP doesn't mean you're good at everything, sadly.
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A good gf is absolutely amazing in PvE. I love playing with them.
So IMO gf is just fine from a PvE perspective.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
^^
GF has a movement penalty ,as a class,by default.That creates problems when he must aggro the boss/miniboss/adds first.
Example:
About slow speed: When he must aggro one of the two scorps in elol.If a team8 attacks first ,then the GF has lost aggro.To regain it must not only mark but use Iron warrior and hit the scorp immediatelly after.Considering the slow animations of the GF,his already slow movement ,and the crossed aoes of the two scorps at this time,there is some possibility the Gf to be one shot.
The two scorps (specially the left one) have eaten enough poor GFs already
Second example ,considering most specifically ,the slow animations this time:
Again in elol vs the 2 scorps.For me at current game maybe there are (with garakas from esot) the most potent bosses in the game.
The most common daily used by Gfs there is Fighters recovery.It is a good daily but.....
In case the scorp makes a specific attack there is a problem:The attack is when he hits with claws and then immediatelly summons a small aoe directly behind the GF(medium pool of lava) and then hits with the claws and the tail for a prone attack.IF the Gf does not go back he will be proned.Fighter's recovery will not save him.
So where the slow animations stand in all this?
In order the Gf to maintain aggro must hit from time to time the scorp.The most apropriate hit is Aggravating Strike.(Sword above the shield).That animation MOVES GF in front each time,also locks him in that animation for some 0.3-0.6 secs.
That gives very clear probability the aforementioned attack of the scorp to happen when GF does aggravating strike.The outcome is 101% certain.Gf is proned.Consider the fact he is in KV...bye bye poor GF
Even if GF survives the hits(and most do) slow animations come again into play.His block is not responsible,is not usable again for some half s second after he is proned.
Second example again vs the scorp about slow animations again:
For the above you see that the major danger against the scorp/scorps in elol is GF to be proned.So what the GF has in his arsenal to avoid prones?What provides him CC immunity.Villain's Menace.It is the animation that makes the GF bigger and cc immune.
Villain's Menace in theory should prone proof the Gf vs the scorps.Well it does not.
Its animation is too slow,aproximatelly 1-1.2 secs (!!) ,that there is a whole good probability the GF to be hit with Aoe ,or to be proned ,while he does the animation.So again you see how much problem are the slow animations not only for GF himself,but for the whole party.
So the minimum the GF needs ,among others,is to reduce its default movement penalty and to increase nearly all its animations.
Edit : Chem i am sure you have seen with your SW or your TR when you do Elol runs poor GFs eaten alive by the cursed ,wicked,vicious ,evil left scorp.....
In one moment ,before the fight ,at the gate you have a poor happy GF throwing basket of water from summer festival to his team8s and using emotes.And less than 1-2 minutes later the Gf dead and the party members running and jumping above aoes and lavas try to revive him