I have said the same many times. It is absurd. The fact that it heals all party members in an Area still does not in any way make this Encounter even worth slotting, even if you lay a blue one over a blue Astral Shield. I tried it several times.
And the casting is far, far too slow without Divinity.
My Module 4 AC is completely feated for Healing, Buffing and Divinity Regeneration with 6000 Power and 3600 Recovery, 58% Recharge speed plus feats that cause Divine Encounters to proc and boost those values. She is a Tiefling with 20 INT and WIS and 22 CHA as well. And Profound Faithful gear for +30% Divinity Regeneration speed..
3000 hp are wiped off with half a glancing blow. Party members are better off running away, quaffing a potion, keep running and quaff another one. There's 17,000 hp in 24 seconds right there, not including any regeneration.
For 3000 hp it is not even worth pressing the button in an Epic melee crush, even if I did NOT suffer from that Righteousness baloney.
15000 hp seems a lot better, but, realistically, 9000 to 12000 would be enough to make it worth using, as it would be a little better than a Healing Potion, and the Party could still drink those as well.
Also, Divinity should not just make the casting instant, it should boost the healing by +50% AND add some damage mitigation. Bastion of Health should be a lower level healing version of Astral Shield.
"Bastion of Health"?
It should be called "Wooden Shed of Illness"!
More healing won't be enough. They need to turn it into a flatout self-centered AoE heal with a long reach. It's nearly impossible to use. Are you going to yell at everyone to clump together in a heated fight? Simply absurd. Make it work like sun burst, then it'll become viable.
Bug: Bear Your Sins The debuff is not working correctly. I get the 10% debuff whenever Bear Your Sins is the only feat/debuff active, but other (additive) debuffs like Darkfire or Condemning Gaze seem to offset/overwrite BYS. The feat icon is still on targets, but I don't get the debuff.
Bug: Bear Your Sins The debuff is not working correctly. I get the 10% debuff whenever Bear Your Sins is the only feat/debuff active, but other (additive) debuffs like Darkfire or Condemning Gaze seem to offset/overwrite BYS. The feat icon is still on targets, but I don't get the debuff.
Feedback:Forgemaster's Flame
I think FF in normal mode need some love. For example, Break the Spirit in normal mode have decrease target damage and old FF in normal mode slow target.
Suggestion:Forgemaster's Flame
Ignite your target with Astral Fire, dealing damage over time and reduce target heal for 10% or something else..
I think it's more likely that Righteousness reduces the healing on ourselves by 70% instead of increasing it on allies.
Otherwise the tooltip wouldn't be updated because of that increase if it was supposed to work only in certain type of units.
Well, we both know that they never actually changed how Righteousness affects the caster (outside of maybe tweaking the numbers slightly) they just rephrased it so that instead of it being a penalty, it was a bonus.
i.e. they turned WoW's "unrested experience penalty" into a "rested bonus." It only really fools the people who don't know any better, but I'm apathetic to the semantic nonsense either way as long as the numbers, ultimately, land where they should.
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bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
I think it's more likely that Righteousness reduces the healing on ourselves by 70% instead of increasing it on allies.
That's how the old Righteousness works. The old one was a % incoming healing penalty, so with no other modifiers in play your powers healed the party with 100% effectiveness while healing yourself for much less, 60% iirc.
The new one works completely different. Instead of Righteousness being a self debuff it is now a group buff, which increased everyone's incoming healing by 70%, meaning that you will heal yourself with 100% effectiveness instead of 60% like before, while you'll heal your party with 170% effectiveness instead of 100%. One side effect that the devs probably didn't think about is that since Righteousness is now considered a group-wide Incoming Healing buff, it also affects healing from other sources like life-steal and regen. So whenever there's a DC in the party everyone is life-stealing and regenerating with 170% effectiveness.
Also there might be a bug with the new Righteousness where it debuffs the DC once more and instead of healing yourself with 100% effectiveness and your party with 170% effectiveness, you'll only heal yourself with 30% effectiveness while your party heal is not affected. I've noticed this behaviour with Astral Seal. Someone should test this, because if this is still happening, it makes Astral Seal more than 5x less effective on you than on your teammates, which is not how it should work.
Bug: Extra Encounter Procs From Sunburst Firing off the encounter sometimes leads to actually casting two Sunbursts in quick succession although the encounter keystroke was only hit once. Best I can give is that I think the second Sunburst goes off on the first At-Will Mouse-Click. Kind of like encounters (Sudden Storm, Frontline Surge) that Mark an AoE area and also can be activated by either hitting an At-Will or the encounter keystroke another time. Can't tell whether this is an issue for other encounters as well, but it's terribly annoying in PVE. You fire off Divine Sunburst,, switch off Divinity and on the first At-Will fire another non-Divine Sunburst that repels enemies away (not wanted in PVE at all!). You also lose empowered stacks you would have liked to use otherwise.
What I'm saying is that they just changed the tooltip to look more like a bonus, just like eigra said. If it was a buff supposed to only work on allies, the tooltip of healing powers wouldn't be updated because of such a partial bonus that relies on the target, so it's likely that the Righteousness mechanic is still based in reducing the healing on us.
Make sure you aren't experiencing network lag. I actually thought Divine Chains was doing the same thing until I realized that it may be the equivalent to animation/network lag glitching it out.
Check your combat log, make SURE you are getting an extra count of damage. If so, let us know. It may just be animation glitchiness, though, I've seen Normal Sunburst animate two or three times on Live with one keypress before amidst some lag.
Also, make sure it's Normal Sunburst and not Empowered. I've noticed that Empowered adds a second damage/healing line in the combat log instead of just merging it with the Normal line (which is fine, since that should mean being able to separate it in ACT).
Feedback: Daunting Light.
I hate delay and small aoe in normal and empowered DL. I can't hit anybody and I think need rework this encounter.
For example:
Daunting Light: Instantly summon a powerful column of light that burns the targeted area.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited November 2014
Question about Piercing Light feat. Is it +10% ArP on all attacks, or 10% rating to current ArP?
Too many layer of management, i suggest to remove empower and let divinity build from normal encounters too. Normal and divinity encounters have separate cooldowns (divinity encounters doesn't have cooldown like now). When you launch an encounter in divinity mode it burn all the pipe of divinity for a more potent effect (like empower do now). In this manner the game play is more fluid a less boring and will be more usable in pvp and pve. In general the damage of encounters is diminuished from that of live, rise the damage of all encounters.
bug: sunburst
the healing of divine sunburst can be deflected.
bug: break the spirit
Damage bonus not working, icon displayed but the damage is the same (tested with 1,2 and 3 empowered orbs)
Feedback: Lance of faith
make the lance heal for 10% of the nominal damage in its path.
This is how I foresee PvP will look like for Cleric:
1) Cleric arrives at node 2 and pray to God that no enemy arrive.
2) Cleric sees a CW.
3) Cleric shouts to CW: "Hey wait a second, let me build my divinity!"
4) CW waits.
5) Cleric throws lance at CW: "See doesn't hurt right?"
6) CW nods head in approval.
7) Cleric throws more lances at CW:"Okay I'm ready now".
8) Cleric toggles into Christmas tree erm ....Divinity mode.
9) Cleric brings blue torch up. Somehow the flame makes a loud sound to declare its presence.
10) Cleric gets CC...
11) Cleric wakes up at campfire.
TLDR: Yes, Cleric now can spam encounters in divinity mode. So what? It's getting there and thereafter the CHANCE to actually utilise it that is the problem. And that is the MAIN problem.
This is how I foresee PvP will look like for Cleric:
1) Cleric arrives at node 2 and pray to God that no enemy arrive.
2) Cleric sees a CW.
3) Cleric shouts to CW: "Hey wait a second, let me build my divinity!"
4) CW waits.
5) Cleric throws lance at CW: "See doesn't hurt right?"
6) CW nods head in approval.
7) Cleric throws more lances at CW:"Okay I'm ready now".
8) Cleric toggles into Christmas tree erm ....Divinity mode.
9) Cleric brings blue torch up. Somehow the flame makes a loud sound to declare its presence.
10) Cleric gets CC...
11) Cleric wakes up at campfire.
TLDR: Yes, Cleric now can spam encounters in divinity mode. So what? It's getting there and thereafter the CHANCE to actually utilise it that is the problem. And that is the MAIN problem.
If only that cleric would be smart enough to build up divinity before the game.
Also, BoB for example gives 1 full pip per use. Hardly bad divinity buildup if you ask me.
If only that cleric would be smart enough to build up divinity before the game.
Precisely that was why I had proposed adding training dummy to campfire spawn area just for Clerics. Cleric has better chance with 3 pips and one empowered to take out a CW before getting CCed.
It's great everyone testing and providing feedback and devs listening and changing things.
I see a lot of pvp based posts which I don't do at all, strictly pve for me. I don't think you can make a balanced game with both pve/pvp included. Seems like all game developers nowadays feel like they have to include both pvp and pve. IE Everquest (played for 10+ years) had a couple separate servers for pvp, they never mixed the two. Also played maplestory for a couple years and no pvp at all. How could rangers/thiefs hit for over 100k per star and players have like 10k hp? Never would work without tweaks...
My opinion you could never mix the 2 and that's why there are class balancing issues in every single mmo including this one. If you go to a pvp area/zone, your skills should be tweaked for pvp. I really wish they would separate the two, they are totally different things.
Anyway I hope this mod and the changes are ok. I have done zero testing and would rather be surprised. I don't want to play another class...
Until the day come where same skills behave differently in PvE and PvP, can it truly be said that Devs can balance skills in PvE and PvP differently. Until that day come, changes affecting skills affect BOTH PvP and PvE. They are inherently mixed until efforts are made to separate them. Many players like to PvP on the forum to get your skills nerfed. Yes YOUR skills. So you go about happily doing your PvE stuff and suddenly realise your dps has dropped, or certain skills have increased cooldown, or lost their damage resistance and you wonder why. Similarly any buffs to "PvE" abilities like increased stealth, reducing cooldown on CC skills, increasing dps on Intimdate etc will tip the balance off PvP.
DC
Everyone talking about HR's, CW's, TR's and GWF's and forget about the DC's, they become gods walking with mortals
its just impossible to defeat one dc in a group match and close to impossible to kill.
Great example of the type of post that Devs listen to that ultimately get Cleric nerfed out of orbit. It shows that many people have come to expect Cleric to be easy kill and nearly one-shottable. Anything less than that has simply become not acceptable. Why has many Cleric accepted their fate? Because it's a cruel one.
Simply just think of your fellow PvP clerics as testers. They are "stress testers". It's hard to dispute but PvP are of a higher difficulty nature due to fighting against actual players who often behave unexpectedly, rather than predetermined AIs. Not all are elitists. But we often hold the beliefs that flawed mechanics have nowhere to hide in PvP session. Any skills that do not perform well in PvP is unlikely to scale well when PvE difficulty increase when cap are raised.
People are used to see DCs as squishy and now they think they're OP.
They're not OP, they're just as viable as HRs, GFs, etc. What you see is the contrast of what it was to what it is right now. From 'the odd ones from the background' to 'one of the cool guys'.
"DCs are OP as F*** coz I can't kill DCs in a few secs like I used to!!!@?"
Stop this non-sense. The real broken class is one that has high survivability + insane dmg, aka godmode HR. Go complain about them first.
That'd be TRs after the recent ptr patch. Crazy dmg with SoD. A 10k tr can wipe just about any BiS class, including a healing DC, in very little time. Will need a Healing DC + another class just to survive against a TR.
Honestly with all that broken **** going on, I kinda feel relived I didn't put too much effort into PVP. It seems to get worse.
It depends on your class really. If you made an HR, you'd have tons of fun on pugs and premades by just having a big class advantage. You will destroy similarly geared and skilled players who aren't HRs and can compete with almost anyone.
It depends on your class really. If you made an HR, you'd have tons of fun on pugs and premades by just having a big class advantage. You will destroy similarly geared and skilled players who aren't HRs and can compete with almost anyone.
Well not worse for every single player obviously, especially those rolling or owning the current OP class, but in the grand scheme of things.
I mean currently, say you want to field the most efficient team. Has to be 5 HRs or what? I mean I get that there never will be true balance between classes and within class trees/paragons in terms of PVP, but that's beyond pathetic.
Well not worse for every single player obviously, especially those rolling or owning the current OP class, but in the grand scheme of things.
I mean currently, say you want to field the most efficient team. Has to be 5 HRs or what? I mean I get that there never will be true balance between classes and within class trees/paragons in terms of PVP, but that's beyond pathetic.
For this module? Probably 5 HRs...or 4HRs and 1 CW....nah its 5 HRs
SUGGESTION:
1) Heroic feat rework
2) Class feature rework
They have been suggested over a million times since this thread was created. You guys kept buffing CW's class features while we're stuck with useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Do something about it, PLEASE.
OKay so as for DCs and build Which Feat path would you use for being in PVP as a tank. The second path seems really nice with the whole as much as you heal them it gets used with the aly is near death. would this be somthing dcs would use for pvp?
Comments
More healing won't be enough. They need to turn it into a flatout self-centered AoE heal with a long reach. It's nearly impossible to use. Are you going to yell at everyone to clump together in a heated fight? Simply absurd. Make it work like sun burst, then it'll become viable.
The debuff is not working correctly. I get the 10% debuff whenever Bear Your Sins is the only feat/debuff active, but other (additive) debuffs like Darkfire or Condemning Gaze seem to offset/overwrite BYS. The feat icon is still on targets, but I don't get the debuff.
Please, please fix these bugs before the launch on Live.
I think FF in normal mode need some love. For example, Break the Spirit in normal mode have decrease target damage and old FF in normal mode slow target.
Suggestion:Forgemaster's Flame
Ignite your target with Astral Fire, dealing damage over time and reduce target heal for 10% or something else..
Well, we both know that they never actually changed how Righteousness affects the caster (outside of maybe tweaking the numbers slightly) they just rephrased it so that instead of it being a penalty, it was a bonus.
i.e. they turned WoW's "unrested experience penalty" into a "rested bonus." It only really fools the people who don't know any better, but I'm apathetic to the semantic nonsense either way as long as the numbers, ultimately, land where they should.
That's how the old Righteousness works. The old one was a % incoming healing penalty, so with no other modifiers in play your powers healed the party with 100% effectiveness while healing yourself for much less, 60% iirc.
The new one works completely different. Instead of Righteousness being a self debuff it is now a group buff, which increased everyone's incoming healing by 70%, meaning that you will heal yourself with 100% effectiveness instead of 60% like before, while you'll heal your party with 170% effectiveness instead of 100%. One side effect that the devs probably didn't think about is that since Righteousness is now considered a group-wide Incoming Healing buff, it also affects healing from other sources like life-steal and regen. So whenever there's a DC in the party everyone is life-stealing and regenerating with 170% effectiveness.
Also there might be a bug with the new Righteousness where it debuffs the DC once more and instead of healing yourself with 100% effectiveness and your party with 170% effectiveness, you'll only heal yourself with 30% effectiveness while your party heal is not affected. I've noticed this behaviour with Astral Seal. Someone should test this, because if this is still happening, it makes Astral Seal more than 5x less effective on you than on your teammates, which is not how it should work.
Firing off the encounter sometimes leads to actually casting two Sunbursts in quick succession although the encounter keystroke was only hit once. Best I can give is that I think the second Sunburst goes off on the first At-Will Mouse-Click. Kind of like encounters (Sudden Storm, Frontline Surge) that Mark an AoE area and also can be activated by either hitting an At-Will or the encounter keystroke another time. Can't tell whether this is an issue for other encounters as well, but it's terribly annoying in PVE. You fire off Divine Sunburst,, switch off Divinity and on the first At-Will fire another non-Divine Sunburst that repels enemies away (not wanted in PVE at all!). You also lose empowered stacks you would have liked to use otherwise.
I know this.
What I'm saying is that they just changed the tooltip to look more like a bonus, just like eigra said. If it was a buff supposed to only work on allies, the tooltip of healing powers wouldn't be updated because of such a partial bonus that relies on the target, so it's likely that the Righteousness mechanic is still based in reducing the healing on us.
Make sure you aren't experiencing network lag. I actually thought Divine Chains was doing the same thing until I realized that it may be the equivalent to animation/network lag glitching it out.
Check your combat log, make SURE you are getting an extra count of damage. If so, let us know. It may just be animation glitchiness, though, I've seen Normal Sunburst animate two or three times on Live with one keypress before amidst some lag.
Also, make sure it's Normal Sunburst and not Empowered. I've noticed that Empowered adds a second damage/healing line in the combat log instead of just merging it with the Normal line (which is fine, since that should mean being able to separate it in ACT).
Spec: Feat Respec
Benefit of Foresight and Power of the Sun are still not being cleared, so my DC can't use the free feat respec and must instead pay for it.
I hate delay and small aoe in normal and empowered DL. I can't hit anybody and I think need rework this encounter.
For example:
Daunting Light: Instantly summon a powerful column of light that burns the targeted area.
Too many layer of management, i suggest to remove empower and let divinity build from normal encounters too. Normal and divinity encounters have separate cooldowns (divinity encounters doesn't have cooldown like now). When you launch an encounter in divinity mode it burn all the pipe of divinity for a more potent effect (like empower do now). In this manner the game play is more fluid a less boring and will be more usable in pvp and pve. In general the damage of encounters is diminuished from that of live, rise the damage of all encounters.
bug: sunburst
the healing of divine sunburst can be deflected.
bug: break the spirit
Damage bonus not working, icon displayed but the damage is the same (tested with 1,2 and 3 empowered orbs)
Feedback: Lance of faith
make the lance heal for 10% of the nominal damage in its path.
1) Cleric arrives at node 2 and pray to God that no enemy arrive.
2) Cleric sees a CW.
3) Cleric shouts to CW: "Hey wait a second, let me build my divinity!"
4) CW waits.
5) Cleric throws lance at CW: "See doesn't hurt right?"
6) CW nods head in approval.
7) Cleric throws more lances at CW:"Okay I'm ready now".
8) Cleric toggles into Christmas tree erm ....Divinity mode.
9) Cleric brings blue torch up. Somehow the flame makes a loud sound to declare its presence.
10) Cleric gets CC...
11) Cleric wakes up at campfire.
TLDR: Yes, Cleric now can spam encounters in divinity mode. So what? It's getting there and thereafter the CHANCE to actually utilise it that is the problem. And that is the MAIN problem.
If only that cleric would be smart enough to build up divinity before the game.
Also, BoB for example gives 1 full pip per use. Hardly bad divinity buildup if you ask me.
Precisely that was why I had proposed adding training dummy to campfire spawn area just for Clerics. Cleric has better chance with 3 pips and one empowered to take out a CW before getting CCed.
I see a lot of pvp based posts which I don't do at all, strictly pve for me. I don't think you can make a balanced game with both pve/pvp included. Seems like all game developers nowadays feel like they have to include both pvp and pve. IE Everquest (played for 10+ years) had a couple separate servers for pvp, they never mixed the two. Also played maplestory for a couple years and no pvp at all. How could rangers/thiefs hit for over 100k per star and players have like 10k hp? Never would work without tweaks...
My opinion you could never mix the 2 and that's why there are class balancing issues in every single mmo including this one. If you go to a pvp area/zone, your skills should be tweaked for pvp. I really wish they would separate the two, they are totally different things.
Anyway I hope this mod and the changes are ok. I have done zero testing and would rather be surprised. I don't want to play another class...
Great example of the type of post that Devs listen to that ultimately get Cleric nerfed out of orbit. It shows that many people have come to expect Cleric to be easy kill and nearly one-shottable. Anything less than that has simply become not acceptable. Why has many Cleric accepted their fate? Because it's a cruel one.
Simply just think of your fellow PvP clerics as testers. They are "stress testers". It's hard to dispute but PvP are of a higher difficulty nature due to fighting against actual players who often behave unexpectedly, rather than predetermined AIs. Not all are elitists. But we often hold the beliefs that flawed mechanics have nowhere to hide in PvP session. Any skills that do not perform well in PvP is unlikely to scale well when PvE difficulty increase when cap are raised.
They're not OP, they're just as viable as HRs, GFs, etc. What you see is the contrast of what it was to what it is right now. From 'the odd ones from the background' to 'one of the cool guys'.
Stop this non-sense. The real broken class is one that has high survivability + insane dmg, aka godmode HR. Go complain about them first.
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
That'd be TRs after the recent ptr patch. Crazy dmg with SoD. A 10k tr can wipe just about any BiS class, including a healing DC, in very little time. Will need a Healing DC + another class just to survive against a TR.
Hopefully SoD will be changed asap.
Iyon the Dark
It depends on your class really. If you made an HR, you'd have tons of fun on pugs and premades by just having a big class advantage. You will destroy similarly geared and skilled players who aren't HRs and can compete with almost anyone.
Well not worse for every single player obviously, especially those rolling or owning the current OP class, but in the grand scheme of things.
I mean currently, say you want to field the most efficient team. Has to be 5 HRs or what? I mean I get that there never will be true balance between classes and within class trees/paragons in terms of PVP, but that's beyond pathetic.
For this module? Probably 5 HRs...or 4HRs and 1 CW....nah its 5 HRs
1) Heroic feat rework
2) Class feature rework
They have been suggested over a million times since this thread was created. You guys kept buffing CW's class features while we're stuck with useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Do something about it, PLEASE.
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)