Hey all, we are adding one more major change to this week's patch.
Devoted Cleric: At Wills now generate 100% more divine power.
We want players to engage with divine mode, and clerics should feel at their best when they are casting divine spells. At will casting should be a part of your rotation, but we wanted it to be a smaller amount than it is now. This will halve the amount of time it takes to fill your divinity and should let you get more out of your Divine spells.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Hey all, we are adding one more major change to this week's patch.
Devoted Cleric: At Wills now generate 100% more divine power.
We want players to engage with divine mode, and clerics should feel at their best when they are casting divine spells. At will casting should be a part of your rotation, but we wanted it to be a smaller amount than it is now. This will halve the amount of time it takes to fill your divinity and should let you get more out of your Divine spells.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Awesomesauce!
Any update regarding Empowerment indicator? (Well, I'll be on Preview this weekend either way, so I suppose I'll see for myself).
Woah, not tested my buff DC since the latest changes, but I already liked him a lot. I guess he's going to take roofs off now with the new Sunburst healing and even more divine power.
Hey all, we are adding one more major change to this week's patch.
Devoted Cleric: At Wills now generate 100% more divine power.
We want players to engage with divine mode, and clerics should feel at their best when they are casting divine spells. At will casting should be a part of your rotation, but we wanted it to be a smaller amount than it is now. This will halve the amount of time it takes to fill your divinity and should let you get more out of your Divine spells.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
now that's a really good change
Aset Xharran, Oppressor CW
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
it is unlikely we will be able to get substantial UI support for adding a new element to Cleric UIs.
That is unfortunate. Is there a chance this could at least be put on the backburner for the future as it is an incredibly complicated feature to not be on the HUD.
If it was as simple as an on/off effect like most of the feat capstones it would be one thing but due to the stacking nature I don't think bubbles will be enough for most players to understand this new mechanic.
Some kind of visual would be nice. Even if it's something like glowy balls flying around us, like what Warlocks have, or something around our weapon, like Wizards get for Arcane stacks. Something that will help us keep count in case things get heated, and more importantly, let us know when our empowerment stacks have expired since they are not permanent and timing may be crucial in a crunch!
Also, I'm not 100% sure that double divinity gain will solve the problem of "no monsters to actually target because the Wizards got there first." I will definitely be testing that, though, once the patch goes up and I get my group together.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Hey all, we are adding one more major change to this week's patch.
Devoted Cleric: At Wills now generate 100% more divine power.
We want players to engage with divine mode, and clerics should feel at their best when they are casting divine spells. At will casting should be a part of your rotation, but we wanted it to be a smaller amount than it is now. This will halve the amount of time it takes to fill your divinity and should let you get more out of your Divine spells.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
This will still be of little help when a DC is focused in pvp.
I played a couple of hours on preview server. I enjoyed it. I missed a lot the fact to test it with other people. I queued for ages for skirmishes, usually the ones in general server that make you wait for 2 minutes maximum.
Also, I'd like to say that I'm not native English speaker, and I play the game in French. Therefore, "UK" name of powers and so on, are rather unknown to me.
This being said, my comments so far:
Feedback: general
The new gaming style is much more dynamic. I read somewhere that we are not currently using our keyboard at same amount as other classes. I did not understand that until I played in preview. New version is more fun. For example using several times same power in divine mode without cooldown (up to 3 times), then switching to normal mode and doing one more hit, is a nice feeling.
Feedback: divine mode and so on
I confirm the fact that "if" we have to relearn how to use it, we lack seeable information. When I read the first page of this thread, with changes to come, I thought "Oh ! that would be so complicated now !". But after playing, it is not complicated at all. So... I guess, I just missed many things behind the new mechanics. I could find't exactly how to make optimization. I'm a curious person, I fear that if this is not easily understood and handled by people behing active in the game, like me for example :-), most of casual people will completely miss the thing.
Feedback: paragon paths
They were "heavily" changed. I now understand the paths like this. I'm not sure if I got this well, but at least it is my view.
The upper one, Virtuous, is a lot of healing but active healing. Though there is no real buff/debuff. Or I missed it. I thought it was also the idea, but it seems not anymore.
The middle one, Faithfull, is the super healer, but also more passive healing. I never liked that, even if it's specialized and effective, I feel it boring. Except for big hard donjons I suppose. The bottom one, Righteous, is "pure" solo pve and pvp.
I played since beta as DC Righteous. I suffered, but liked it. Kind of S/M behavior I have probably. I tried shortly the new path, and I think it's a success. You deal significantly more damage now than before. And it was also fun to play.
I decided to change to AC Virtuous. I found it entertaining, and for some things amazing. I'm not sure I will be good in pvp, but I'll give a try. I make a lot less damage in one hit or in a couple of seconds than before, but due to the new divinity mechanics, and AC with more... Armor Class (fun coincidence), I think it can compensate in most situations.
Feedback: main parangon paths
I discovered the AC (Annointed Champion) within the preview, I never had a chance to test it before. So, these comments are not from someone having knowledge of this Parangon. However, I can compare to the general DC.
I do not understand the idea behind the choice of removing several "talents" (passive and active powers) that give more damage.
Hammer of faith ? Replaced by a nice party (or solo) buff. Ok. But (1) you loose one "spell" that was usefull in pvp.
(2) The "talent" that gave a +2% of damage, that can stack up to 3 or 4 times, is gone. Replaced by something else that can be useful, but that does not give damage. Or the "talent" that gives, after the use of a daily power +3% of damage. That is much less damage.
(3) Removed the DOT that was nice in pve, pvp, and even sometimes in donjons. Replaced by a much less damaging one, SLOW, but giving some buff.
These 3 things combined seems to me too much. I guess it would be a better idea to exchange one of these 2 (DOT or the passive power that adds damage) with one of the DC regular line. About DOT, I think there is none now, in at-will. Again I may have missed it.
It is maybe not something new, I have no idea, but it's my thoughts on the subject now. And as a deep review is made, maybe it's the place to write it.
Feedback: sunburst
I do not see the point with "Sunburst" problem people write in this thread (N.B.: I've not read all !) as it does not have knockback or even damage at all in divine mode. Situation is reversed: knockback in normal mode and no knockback in divine mode. Seems to heal much more too.
Feedback: speed
Nobody cares it seems, but it's painfull to be the sluggish priest running so slow after crazy GWF, among others. Do we really NEED to be that slow in class balance ? What is the point of that slowness in a computer game, except being boring. I mean, is it really weighted somewhere in balance that we have such advantages that make a slower movement speed a requirement ? What if we had an average speed, would that change anything except the fun part of playing, pve even, or most importantly in donjons ?
By the way, our "esquive" (swift movement) is very limited, and can even drive us in holes. CW are slow too I think, but their move is quicker, and they can't teleport in a hole. Is it something that has been actually thought through ? It makes no sense to me.
Thanks for reading. And thanks to the team to finally have taken time to review the Priest. I'm quite sure it will be better now.
Well was hoping the divinity gain patch would be in but it wasn't so I tried out what had been changed since my last feedback post and here is what i got for a quick run through the PS.
FEEDBACK: EMPOWERED Yeah, I'm still against the Empowered Mechanic, it's lame, it's HAMSTER, it's just was not necessary. I know you can't go back and eliminate it, else your bosses would think you have just wasted valuable time and money and most likely, some would have lost their jobs. Still, I will continue to voice my disgust for it.
FEEDBACK: FAITHFUL The so called "healing" tree, is very lackluster for the DCs who actually do want to heal their party. With less encounters that heal, it is going to be much harder to keep teammates alive. I tried it out on a party and for the basic HEs, it did fine, but through hard dungeon crawls such as Valindras Tower, it would be very hard to keep party alive if they were not specced for self healing. Even then, some find it difficult to stay alive.
SUGGESTION: FAITHFUL Return healing back to some of the encounters, at least to the normal version.
FEEDBACK: PROPHECY OF DOOM Spells doom to DCs who want to use it. Its' incredibly slow casting time can get us killed in game.
SUGGESTION: PROPHECY OF DOOM Increase the casting time to PoD please. as it is, Empowered mechanic had made DCs less mobile. That wouldn't be too bad except that DCs were already the least mobile of all Classes prior to the changes. Improve casting times.
FEEDBACK: MOBILITY We need to be more mobile. AS stated above, DCs were already the least mobile in teh game. Give us an extra slide. Two slides have never been enough. Any class can easily catch us and with the newe Empowered mechanic, we have to stop and fire, stop and fire, more now than ever before. My DPS DC on live server is much more mobile than it is on Preview Server.
SUGGESTION: MOBILITY Give us an extra slide!
FEEDBACK: HALLOWED GROUND So its a defensive spell without the possibility of healing. We already have a Daily that does this. Why be redundant.
SUGGESTION: HALLOWED GROUND The healing that it received from an eliminated feat, makes this only a defensible. Return healing to HG, it's a daily for goodness sake!
I show player support, by only playing Neverwinter as F2P
Hallowed Ground: Does Defense and Offense boost.
Divine Armor: Does Defense boost and Temporary HP.
I would rather see Hallowed Ground do Defense Boost + Offense Boost and Divine Armor do Defense Boost + Healing. Temporary HP is gonna get shaved off fast, and we have so many other powers that already apply it that chances are it'll be ignored (since I'm guessing it does not stack Temp HP from different powers).
Suggestion: Hallowed Ground
Provides +10% Damage Resistance and +10% Increased Damage (+10% per rank to a max of +30%) to all friendly targets in circle. No target cap.
Suggestion: Divine Armor
Provides +10% Damage Resistance (+10% per rank, to 30%) and applies a Heal-over-Time of 2% of target's Max HP every second (at 12 seconds, that's 24% of health recovered) (+2% per rank, to 6% -- Rank 2 will recover 48% health, Rank 3 will recover 72% health). No target cap.
This way, Clerics can pick and choose whether they want more offense or more survivability for their party, and if their group has two clerics, they can have the best of both worlds.
The new mechanic is annoying. It makes playing unnecessarily complicated. We got more tapping and clicking and less flexibility.
Spamming at-wills, then spamming divinity, then casting empowered, running and dodging between, it's time consuming and in combat there's no time.
Soloing is even more difficult then before, and in dungeons nobody will want clumsy and slow cleric in the party.
Healing word in line is good, but that's all.
Altogether, my general impression is that playing is not fun anymore, it's annoying.
I don't think I'll go to preview again. Instead I'll go and play my cleric while I still can, and then probably say goodbye to her.
to be fast: @PvE
Righteous - nice, but can be tough if player's gear isn't good, please consider a little bit more self-healing.
FF and AS - horrible, I will never use again /drama.
BoH and HW, plus our capstone - is being forced for healing, that's the contrary to offer options.
Empower - I would like to have a key to activate when I want to active.
Heroic Feats - why no changes, we need them reworked.
___
Anointed Champion - Please bring back immunity to Exaltation, and a faster animation for Blessing of Battle.
Instead of a passive divinity regeneration (which is a no skill ability, that sucks)(
I never could got it why clerics don't have passive divinity regeneration like other classes.
This class must be just 2 powerful 4 such an OP feature - unlike others.
Do Daunting Light and Flame Strike proc Repurpose Soul yet? Couldn't see it proc in my testing.
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited October 2014
I echo the majority of dissatisfied DC players. I like your take on rapid-fire Divinity, but the entire normal/empowered/divine mechanic needs to go. It actually weakens DCs in both PvP and PvE. I realize it's somewhat late in the game, but how about this simple rework?
Suggestion: DC class mechanic
Normal spells behave normally.
Divine spells have no cooldown, and add an additional effect depending on the number of Divinity pips a DC has. For example, Daunting Light could add:
Divinity: Increase the damage Daunting Light deals by (20% + 5% per additional spell level) per pip of divinity.
In this example machine gunning Divine DL 3 times in a row means when cast with 3 divinity pips it deals +90% damage, when two +60%, and with one +30%.
Add these type of divinity buffs to every skill. DCs then strategize what level of divinity gets used with what skill.
Hey all, after some work this morning we managed to get two new things for clerics that should be nice QoL changes. They will not be making it into this week's preview push, but will be in next week.
Empowered: This mechanic now has a related VFX. Players will see blue orbs surround their character while they are empowered (one per stack).
Divine Astral Shield: Now plays a VFX in the affected area for 1 second to communicate what is happening better.
These should make interacting with Divine AS and Empowerment much easier, especially for those who disable their popup text.
In regards to healing, I see many clerics saying that they feel healing was reduced, but our internal testing shows clerics providing more consistent healing to groups in tougher content (where players are at appropriate GS for the content that is).
Have clerics who have been running dungeons and group content noticed a healing deficit? Would it help if we scheduled another play with the devs event to run some dungeons at appropriate gear score to see how healing shakes out there? On the flip side, what paragon feats would healing clerics like to see improved in the new system?
As a related side note, we are currently taking a look at cleric Dodge and its stamina cost, although we have not made a final decision on it yet.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
As much as I appreciate the attempt to make this class a whole lot better... Please don't go through with the divinity rework.. I'd rather wait for a while rather than DESTROYING the fluidity & versatility that is DC. Divine mode needs to share the same cooldown with the normal mode in order to retain the strength/impact that it should have.
My approach would be to leave the popular spells alone while working towards boosting/improving the underperforming encounters, while also fixing & improving broken/non-functional/underperforming feats...
Bastion of Health : Make it work like the ptr, big burst with regen component... |Divine Mode : 3x Empowered version of the normal Divine Glow : Make it work like the ptr | Divine Mode : 3x Empowered version of the normal Break the Spirit : Make it work like the ptr | Divine Mode : 3x Empowered version Chains of Blazing Light : Make it like ptr version | Divine Mode : 3x Empowered Version Searing Light : Make it like ptr version | Divine Mode : 3x Empowered Version
The encounters that we are somewhat happy with on live :
[probably need a little improvement... but not outside of what it originally does ]
Astral Shield : Leave as is, already in good position Forgemaster's Flame : Provide additional damage buff to surrounding like in ptr version(both normal and divine mode) | Divine Mode : Now to also provide Healing Sunburst : Leave as is, open for improvement Exaltation : Leave as is, open for improvement | Divine Mode : Immunity Bubble should also grant CC immunity
______________________
Heroic Feats that needs improvements/rework :
* Healing Action [Useless]
* Domain Synergy [Useless]
* Initiate of the Faith [Useless]
* Battlewise [Useless]
* Templar's Domain [Useless]
* Cleanse [Need improvement, reduce internal cooldown from 20 secs to around 5-4 secs ]
Suggestion : If there's no idea on what to replace those useless feats.. we can use the old existing one that is proven to be quite useful, such as :
+ Divine Advantage
+ Healing Step
+ Linked Spirit
+ Ethereal Boon
Empowered: This mechanic now has a related VFX. Players will see blue orbs surround their character while they are empowered (one per stack).
Divine Astral Shield: Now plays a VFX in the affected area for 1 second to communicate what is happening better.
Excellent! Both changes, but especially the Empowered indication, should help quite a bit. Don't forget, if it's at all possible, to resize the targeting paint for Divine Glow and any other powers that have a radius change when Empowered, though. Dunno how complicated that would be to add, and I know you're crunched for time, but hopefully it can be noted at the very least.
In regards to healing, I see many clerics saying that they feel healing was reduced, but our internal testing shows clerics providing more consistent healing to groups in tougher content (where players are at appropriate GS for the content that is).
Have clerics who have been running dungeons and group content noticed a healing deficit? Would it help if we scheduled another play with the devs event to run some dungeons at appropriate gear score to see how healing shakes out there? On the flip side, what paragon feats would healing clerics like to see improved in the new system?
I am not running a full-on healing build, but rather mostly buff/debuff with some supportive healing, and I haven't had any issue keeping allies healed provided they know to stay nearby (or STAND STILL) while I heal them. The issue I'm having is that players die from spike damage (mainly because they're running out of my Damage Resist fields, or not staying close enough to me/primary targets to get Damage Resist buffs, and I can't pick and choose targets here), or that players dash away from me after I pick them up so my heal misses. So it mostly boils down to "heal the smart, let the stupid die" in my experience.
...Who'da thunk it, a religious Cleric enforcing Darwin's Law.
Having a Daily that heals the way Hallowed Ground/Moontouched used to would probably help a lot in keeping the panicked masses healed in Tiamat, since, between feated AP gain and artifact use, I can kick my Daily out fairly regularly.
As a related side note, we are currently taking a look at cleric Dodge and its stamina cost, although we have not made a final decision on it yet.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
A third dodge would be nice, but a possible alternative may be powers that improve Stamina Gain significantly when used, or restore Stamina to healed targets (would be most logical to restore Stamina over time when affected by a Heal over Time power). That may be a little overpowered, though, I dunno. Would really need to see it in practice. Maybe a feat that restores caster Stamina whenever targets are healed? I can see why a final decision hasn't been made yet.
I have to admit, besides Guardian Fighters (who have the mobility of a wet noodle when out of combat), Clerics aren't the most "nimble" of classes. That may make sense from a class standpoint, but it does become painful out of combat when all the wizards teleport ahead, fighters and warlocks zip ahead, etc. So some kind of change would be nice to see.
And thank you, Chris, for giving us updates. It feels encouraging to see developer notes, and lets us know that, even if you can't "Do ALL the things!" for us, you're still listening to our voices while trying to make this new mechanic change work. So it's greatly appreciated.
Hey all, after some work this morning we managed to get two new things for clerics that should be nice QoL changes. They will not be making it into this week's preview push, but will be in next week.
Empowered: This mechanic now has a related VFX. Players will see blue orbs surround their character while they are empowered (one per stack).
Divine Astral Shield: Now plays a VFX in the affected area for 1 second to communicate what is happening better.
These should make interacting with Divine AS and Empowerment much easier, especially for those who disable their popup text.?
UNDERSTATEMENT. This is awesome and perfect! I see I'll be spending another weekend in Preview.
As a related side note, we are currently taking a look at cleric Dodge and its stamina cost, although we have not made a final decision on it yet.
Okay, on this: YOU. HAVE. NO. IDEA.
I've always HATED the Cleric Dodge - it was always lacking and UP (Under Powered) compared to *every other class*, including GF! I've never brought it up because I frankly didn't have an ounce of hope you guys (and gals) would even consider looking at it.
For me: THIS is the bigger Yippee-ai-yay! THANK YOU.
My hope: That's you'd at least set the stamina to allow three dodges (at the same distance for each dodge). It always felt like either not far enough, or one charge short.
Empowered: This mechanic now has a related VFX. Players will see blue orbs surround their character while they are empowered (one per stack).
WOOT! AWESOME, thank you!!
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited October 2014
Honestly, I never had an issue with the DC's dodge. They aren't nimble strikers anyway so it's mainly just a pvp issue. The TR is the one who needed it. TRs can't heal or buff themselves or competently fight from a distance or deal spike AoE.
CWs are mages, and agro a bit which is why they have more.
In regards to healing, I see many clerics saying that they feel healing was reduced, but our internal testing shows clerics providing more consistent healing to groups in tougher content (where players are at appropriate GS for the content that is).
Have clerics who have been running dungeons and group content noticed a healing deficit?
Well both are true actually,depending on how you look at it, at least in my experience.Healing is lower but the protection is better.What I mean by that is,for me at least,most of my healing comes from astral shield on Live.But astral shield no longer heals and that greatly lowers my actual healing numbers.The absorption that Astral Shield is now offering in empowered mode,however,outperforms the heals I could do with it,specially when combined with other defensive abilities to fully absorb small hits and greatly mitigate big hits.None of these shows up as "healing",but I can protect my team just fine.
Also,on Live,I sometimes use sunburst in dungeons,which also added a bit of healing.On Mimic,I don't, due to the annoying knockback.So there's a bit of healing loss from that as well,as I replaced it.
The main issue I have with support in pve is bug-related.As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts,Shield of the Divine and Agent of the Divine are bugged and don't seem to be triggering properly on allies,they only heal the DC.This further decreases the healing output we do,compared to what would be expected.
In general,I'd say that,for PvE,the changes have:
-Greatly improved my own damage contribution.
-Kept my defensive support at roughly the same levels,mostly improving my proactive protection,while decreasing my reactive protection,if that makes sense.I cant top up people as easily after they get hit,but I can help them minimize damage they take in the first place.This is, in most cases, fine,since people will just use a potion or lifesteal their way back to full health anyway, if they get hurt.My heals on live were often just healing HP my allies would have recovered regardless,only a small amount was actually the "life saving" kind.
-My offensive support has slightly decreased,mostly because,in order to get a damage bonus -almost- as good as Live version's Divine Divine Glow,I need to cast 3 x Divine Divine Glow+ Divine Glow.By the time Im done casting all that,most adds are already dead.It's not that the encounter is weak,it's already very powerful.But it takes a while to finish 4 animations,compared to 1.I also don't really like how I'm "penalized" for using buff dailies to help my allies,by being locked out of AP generation for the buff's duration.It's kinda counter-productive,but since it's a global change that affects all classes,it would be unfair to demand a change solely for the DC.If it stays as it is on live for all classes though,that would be much better.
On the flip side, what paragon feats would healing clerics like to see improved in the new system?
First of all,I'd like to see the 2 bugged capstone feats properly affect allies.Also,it would be nice if test of faith would either smart target the ally with highest missing % of hp,or be turned into a slightly weaker aoe version where up to 3 stacks seek out allies,with each ally affected by only 1 stack max.There's also the issue of generating these stacks.In solo or PvP,you get hit all the time,so Im usually sitting at 20 stacks.In dungeons though,DC rarely has aggro,which kinda disables this feat,unless you stand in red.Maybe hits on nearby allies could also contribute to stack building,but still limit it to 1 stack per second?
Lastly,when it comes to feats,the main issue is heroic feats,not paragon.As many have mentioned,there are a few that are extremely weak.But since you are asking specifically for paragon feats,I wont expand on that.
As a related side note, we are currently taking a look at cleric Dodge and its stamina cost, although we have not made a final decision on it yet.
Awesome! Thank you for considering this
(On a side note: "Clerics and their blue balls of empowerment" Not sure how I feel about that xD Though seriously,thanks for the VFX addition,will be easier to keep track of our stacks now. )
My brief two cents on the divinity rework. Sorry I've not read much of this thread beyond dev posts.
I appreciate the effort involved in the design and implementation and I like the healing ability of both the faithful and virtuous trees but I personally find it to be a rather chaotic playstyle. The things that most contribute to this are the speed with which divinity is gained and the ability to cast divine spells without cooldown.
What this means for me in practice is that I fill my divinity meter, rapid cast three divine spells (often the same one) and then cast an empowered spell. There's not a huge amount of thought going into which spells I cast as empowered and I often cast the other two encounters at this point as well, then go back to building divinity.
Whilst there is a desire to reach empowered state, it's so easy to achieve and is often overshadowed by divine spells. Normal encounter powers seem to take a back seat as well.
At this point I don't have any bright ideas on how I would change things and I have only been playing solo in IWD, that will likely influence my opinion.
Well both are true actually,depending on how you look at it, at least in my experience.Healing is lower but the protection is better.What I mean by that is,for me at least,most of my healing comes from astral shield on Live.But astral shield no longer heals and that greatly lowers my actual healing numbers.The absorption that Astral Shield is now offering in empowered mode,however,outperforms the heals I could do with it,specially when combined with other defensive abilities to fully absorb small hits and greatly mitigate big hits.None of these shows up as "healing",but I can protect my team just fine.
Also,on Live,I sometimes use sunburst in dungeons,which also added a bit of healing.On Mimic,I don't, due to the annoying knockback.So there's a bit of healing loss from that as well,as I replaced it.
The main issue I have with support in pve is bug-related.As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts,Shield of the Divine and Agent of the Divine are bugged and don't seem to be triggering properly on allies,they only heal the DC.This further decreases the healing output we do,compared to what would be expected.
In general,I'd say that,for PvE,the changes have:
-Greatly improved my own damage contribution.
-Kept my defensive support at roughly the same levels,mostly improving my proactive protection,while decreasing my reactive protection,if that makes sense.I cant top up people as easily after they get hit,but I can help them minimize damage they take in the first place.This is, in most cases, fine,since people will just use a potion or lifesteal their way back to full health anyway, if they get hurt.My heals on live were often just healing HP my allies would have recovered regardless,only a small amount was actually the "life saving" kind.
-My offensive support has slightly decreased,mostly because,in order to get a damage bonus -almost- as good as Live version's Divine Divine Glow,I need to cast 3 x Divine Divine Glow+ Divine Glow.By the time Im done casting all that,most adds are already dead.It's not that the encounter is weak,it's already very powerful.But it takes a while to finish 4 animations,compared to 1.I also don't really like how I'm "penalized" for using buff dailies to help my allies,by being locked out of AP generation for the buff's duration.It's kinda counter-productive,but since it's a global change that affects all classes,it would be unfair to demand a change solely for the DC.If it stays as it is on live for all classes though,that would be much better.
First of all,I'd like to see the 2 bugged capstone feats properly affect allies.Also,it would be nice if test of faith would either smart target the ally with highest missing % of hp,or be turned into a slightly weaker aoe version where up to 3 stacks seek out allies,with each ally affected by only 1 stack max.There's also the issue of generating these stacks.In solo or PvP,you get hit all the time,so Im usually sitting at 20 stacks.In dungeons though,DC rarely has aggro,which kinda disables this feat,unless you stand in red.Maybe hits on nearby allies could also contribute to stack building,but still limit it to 1 stack per second?
Lastly,when it comes to feats,the main issue is heroic feats,not paragon.As many have mentioned,there are a few that are extremely weak.But since you are asking specifically for paragon feats,I wont expand on that.
Awesome! Thank you for considering this
(On a side note: "Clerics and their blue balls of empowerment" Not sure how I feel about that xD Though seriously,thanks for the VFX addition,will be easier to keep track of our stacks now. )
^This. This says everything I want to perfectly except I would like to add that it seems we lack any feats that add buffs or debuffs in all trees. Now they are increase to either heals or damage only. Before there were feats that could also boost your recovery or power or make straight buff powers heal. A bit of a return to that would be great.
Comments
Devoted Cleric: At Wills now generate 100% more divine power.
We want players to engage with divine mode, and clerics should feel at their best when they are casting divine spells. At will casting should be a part of your rotation, but we wanted it to be a smaller amount than it is now. This will halve the amount of time it takes to fill your divinity and should let you get more out of your Divine spells.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Awesomesauce!
Any update regarding Empowerment indicator? (Well, I'll be on Preview this weekend either way, so I suppose I'll see for myself).
it is unlikely we will be able to get substantial UI support for adding a new element to Cleric UIs.
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now that's a really good change
That is unfortunate. Is there a chance this could at least be put on the backburner for the future as it is an incredibly complicated feature to not be on the HUD.
If it was as simple as an on/off effect like most of the feat capstones it would be one thing but due to the stacking nature I don't think bubbles will be enough for most players to understand this new mechanic.
Then how about a visual?
It could even be copy of SW at-will visual that makes the purple thingy fly around you, except for DC it would be light.
Anything that could help as keeping track of divinity and empowered is not fun mechanic, its a chore.
Also, I'm not 100% sure that double divinity gain will solve the problem of "no monsters to actually target because the Wizards got there first." I will definitely be testing that, though, once the patch goes up and I get my group together.
This will still be of little help when a DC is focused in pvp.
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
Honest is as honest does. Thank you for a truthful answer (Yes. Really.)
Also, I'd like to say that I'm not native English speaker, and I play the game in French. Therefore, "UK" name of powers and so on, are rather unknown to me.
This being said, my comments so far:
Feedback: general
The new gaming style is much more dynamic. I read somewhere that we are not currently using our keyboard at same amount as other classes. I did not understand that until I played in preview. New version is more fun. For example using several times same power in divine mode without cooldown (up to 3 times), then switching to normal mode and doing one more hit, is a nice feeling.
Feedback: divine mode and so on
I confirm the fact that "if" we have to relearn how to use it, we lack seeable information. When I read the first page of this thread, with changes to come, I thought "Oh ! that would be so complicated now !". But after playing, it is not complicated at all. So... I guess, I just missed many things behind the new mechanics. I could find't exactly how to make optimization. I'm a curious person, I fear that if this is not easily understood and handled by people behing active in the game, like me for example :-), most of casual people will completely miss the thing.
Feedback: paragon paths
They were "heavily" changed. I now understand the paths like this. I'm not sure if I got this well, but at least it is my view.
The upper one, Virtuous, is a lot of healing but active healing. Though there is no real buff/debuff. Or I missed it. I thought it was also the idea, but it seems not anymore.
The middle one, Faithfull, is the super healer, but also more passive healing. I never liked that, even if it's specialized and effective, I feel it boring. Except for big hard donjons I suppose. The bottom one, Righteous, is "pure" solo pve and pvp.
I played since beta as DC Righteous. I suffered, but liked it. Kind of S/M behavior I have probably. I tried shortly the new path, and I think it's a success. You deal significantly more damage now than before. And it was also fun to play.
I decided to change to AC Virtuous. I found it entertaining, and for some things amazing. I'm not sure I will be good in pvp, but I'll give a try. I make a lot less damage in one hit or in a couple of seconds than before, but due to the new divinity mechanics, and AC with more... Armor Class (fun coincidence), I think it can compensate in most situations.
Feedback: main parangon paths
I discovered the AC (Annointed Champion) within the preview, I never had a chance to test it before. So, these comments are not from someone having knowledge of this Parangon. However, I can compare to the general DC.
I do not understand the idea behind the choice of removing several "talents" (passive and active powers) that give more damage.
Hammer of faith ? Replaced by a nice party (or solo) buff. Ok. But (1) you loose one "spell" that was usefull in pvp.
(2) The "talent" that gave a +2% of damage, that can stack up to 3 or 4 times, is gone. Replaced by something else that can be useful, but that does not give damage. Or the "talent" that gives, after the use of a daily power +3% of damage. That is much less damage.
(3) Removed the DOT that was nice in pve, pvp, and even sometimes in donjons. Replaced by a much less damaging one, SLOW, but giving some buff.
These 3 things combined seems to me too much. I guess it would be a better idea to exchange one of these 2 (DOT or the passive power that adds damage) with one of the DC regular line. About DOT, I think there is none now, in at-will. Again I may have missed it.
It is maybe not something new, I have no idea, but it's my thoughts on the subject now. And as a deep review is made, maybe it's the place to write it.
Feedback: sunburst
I do not see the point with "Sunburst" problem people write in this thread (N.B.: I've not read all !) as it does not have knockback or even damage at all in divine mode. Situation is reversed: knockback in normal mode and no knockback in divine mode. Seems to heal much more too.
Feedback: speed
Nobody cares it seems, but it's painfull to be the sluggish priest running so slow after crazy GWF, among others. Do we really NEED to be that slow in class balance ? What is the point of that slowness in a computer game, except being boring. I mean, is it really weighted somewhere in balance that we have such advantages that make a slower movement speed a requirement ? What if we had an average speed, would that change anything except the fun part of playing, pve even, or most importantly in donjons ?
By the way, our "esquive" (swift movement) is very limited, and can even drive us in holes. CW are slow too I think, but their move is quicker, and they can't teleport in a hole. Is it something that has been actually thought through ? It makes no sense to me.
Thanks for reading. And thanks to the team to finally have taken time to review the Priest. I'm quite sure it will be better now.
FEEDBACK: EMPOWERED
Yeah, I'm still against the Empowered Mechanic, it's lame, it's HAMSTER, it's just was not necessary. I know you can't go back and eliminate it, else your bosses would think you have just wasted valuable time and money and most likely, some would have lost their jobs. Still, I will continue to voice my disgust for it.
FEEDBACK: FAITHFUL
The so called "healing" tree, is very lackluster for the DCs who actually do want to heal their party. With less encounters that heal, it is going to be much harder to keep teammates alive. I tried it out on a party and for the basic HEs, it did fine, but through hard dungeon crawls such as Valindras Tower, it would be very hard to keep party alive if they were not specced for self healing. Even then, some find it difficult to stay alive.
SUGGESTION: FAITHFUL
Return healing back to some of the encounters, at least to the normal version.
FEEDBACK: PROPHECY OF DOOM
Spells doom to DCs who want to use it. Its' incredibly slow casting time can get us killed in game.
SUGGESTION: PROPHECY OF DOOM
Increase the casting time to PoD please. as it is, Empowered mechanic had made DCs less mobile. That wouldn't be too bad except that DCs were already the least mobile of all Classes prior to the changes. Improve casting times.
FEEDBACK: MOBILITY
We need to be more mobile. AS stated above, DCs were already the least mobile in teh game. Give us an extra slide. Two slides have never been enough. Any class can easily catch us and with the newe Empowered mechanic, we have to stop and fire, stop and fire, more now than ever before. My DPS DC on live server is much more mobile than it is on Preview Server.
SUGGESTION: MOBILITY
Give us an extra slide!
FEEDBACK: HALLOWED GROUND
So its a defensive spell without the possibility of healing. We already have a Daily that does this. Why be redundant.
SUGGESTION: HALLOWED GROUND
The healing that it received from an eliminated feat, makes this only a defensible. Return healing to HG, it's a daily for goodness sake!
Hallowed Ground: Does Defense and Offense boost.
Divine Armor: Does Defense boost and Temporary HP.
I would rather see Hallowed Ground do Defense Boost + Offense Boost and Divine Armor do Defense Boost + Healing. Temporary HP is gonna get shaved off fast, and we have so many other powers that already apply it that chances are it'll be ignored (since I'm guessing it does not stack Temp HP from different powers).
Suggestion: Hallowed Ground
Provides +10% Damage Resistance and +10% Increased Damage (+10% per rank to a max of +30%) to all friendly targets in circle. No target cap.
Suggestion: Divine Armor
Provides +10% Damage Resistance (+10% per rank, to 30%) and applies a Heal-over-Time of 2% of target's Max HP every second (at 12 seconds, that's 24% of health recovered) (+2% per rank, to 6% -- Rank 2 will recover 48% health, Rank 3 will recover 72% health). No target cap.
This way, Clerics can pick and choose whether they want more offense or more survivability for their party, and if their group has two clerics, they can have the best of both worlds.
Spamming at-wills, then spamming divinity, then casting empowered, running and dodging between, it's time consuming and in combat there's no time.
Soloing is even more difficult then before, and in dungeons nobody will want clumsy and slow cleric in the party.
Healing word in line is good, but that's all.
Altogether, my general impression is that playing is not fun anymore, it's annoying.
I don't think I'll go to preview again. Instead I'll go and play my cleric while I still can, and then probably say goodbye to her.
@PvE
Righteous - nice, but can be tough if player's gear isn't good, please consider a little bit more self-healing.
FF and AS - horrible, I will never use again /drama.
BoH and HW, plus our capstone - is being forced for healing, that's the contrary to offer options.
Empower - I would like to have a key to activate when I want to active.
Heroic Feats - why no changes, we need them reworked.
___
Anointed Champion - Please bring back immunity to Exaltation, and a faster animation for Blessing of Battle.
I never could got it why clerics don't have passive divinity regeneration like other classes.
This class must be just 2 powerful 4 such an OP feature - unlike others.
Suggestion: DC class mechanic
Normal spells behave normally.
Divine spells have no cooldown, and add an additional effect depending on the number of Divinity pips a DC has. For example, Daunting Light could add:
Divinity: Increase the damage Daunting Light deals by (20% + 5% per additional spell level) per pip of divinity.
In this example machine gunning Divine DL 3 times in a row means when cast with 3 divinity pips it deals +90% damage, when two +60%, and with one +30%.
Add these type of divinity buffs to every skill. DCs then strategize what level of divinity gets used with what skill.
These should make interacting with Divine AS and Empowerment much easier, especially for those who disable their popup text.
In regards to healing, I see many clerics saying that they feel healing was reduced, but our internal testing shows clerics providing more consistent healing to groups in tougher content (where players are at appropriate GS for the content that is).
Have clerics who have been running dungeons and group content noticed a healing deficit? Would it help if we scheduled another play with the devs event to run some dungeons at appropriate gear score to see how healing shakes out there? On the flip side, what paragon feats would healing clerics like to see improved in the new system?
As a related side note, we are currently taking a look at cleric Dodge and its stamina cost, although we have not made a final decision on it yet.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
As much as I appreciate the attempt to make this class a whole lot better... Please don't go through with the divinity rework.. I'd rather wait for a while rather than DESTROYING the fluidity & versatility that is DC. Divine mode needs to share the same cooldown with the normal mode in order to retain the strength/impact that it should have.
My approach would be to leave the popular spells alone while working towards boosting/improving the underperforming encounters, while also fixing & improving broken/non-functional/underperforming feats...
As we can see here, turns out many doesnt like the new style of cleric..:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?774691-The-new-style-of-Cleric-what-do-you-think-of-it
The Encounters that need boosting on live :
Bastion of Health : Make it work like the ptr, big burst with regen component... | Divine Mode : 3x Empowered version of the normal
Divine Glow : Make it work like the ptr | Divine Mode : 3x Empowered version of the normal
Break the Spirit : Make it work like the ptr | Divine Mode : 3x Empowered version
Chains of Blazing Light : Make it like ptr version | Divine Mode : 3x Empowered Version
Searing Light : Make it like ptr version | Divine Mode : 3x Empowered Version
The encounters that we are somewhat happy with on live :
[probably need a little improvement... but not outside of what it originally does ]
Astral Shield : Leave as is, already in good position
Forgemaster's Flame : Provide additional damage buff to surrounding like in ptr version(both normal and divine mode) | Divine Mode : Now to also provide Healing
Sunburst : Leave as is, open for improvement
Exaltation : Leave as is, open for improvement | Divine Mode : Immunity Bubble should also grant CC immunity
______________________
Heroic Feats that needs improvements/rework :
* Healing Action [Useless]
* Domain Synergy [Useless]
* Initiate of the Faith [Useless]
* Battlewise [Useless]
* Templar's Domain [Useless]
* Cleanse [Need improvement, reduce internal cooldown from 20 secs to around 5-4 secs ]
Suggestion : If there's no idea on what to replace those useless feats.. we can use the old existing one that is proven to be quite useful, such as :
+ Divine Advantage
+ Healing Step
+ Linked Spirit
+ Ethereal Boon
since we lost it in paragon tree.
Excellent! Both changes, but especially the Empowered indication, should help quite a bit. Don't forget, if it's at all possible, to resize the targeting paint for Divine Glow and any other powers that have a radius change when Empowered, though. Dunno how complicated that would be to add, and I know you're crunched for time, but hopefully it can be noted at the very least.
I am not running a full-on healing build, but rather mostly buff/debuff with some supportive healing, and I haven't had any issue keeping allies healed provided they know to stay nearby (or STAND STILL) while I heal them. The issue I'm having is that players die from spike damage (mainly because they're running out of my Damage Resist fields, or not staying close enough to me/primary targets to get Damage Resist buffs, and I can't pick and choose targets here), or that players dash away from me after I pick them up so my heal misses. So it mostly boils down to "heal the smart, let the stupid die" in my experience.
...Who'da thunk it, a religious Cleric enforcing Darwin's Law.
Having a Daily that heals the way Hallowed Ground/Moontouched used to would probably help a lot in keeping the panicked masses healed in Tiamat, since, between feated AP gain and artifact use, I can kick my Daily out fairly regularly.
A third dodge would be nice, but a possible alternative may be powers that improve Stamina Gain significantly when used, or restore Stamina to healed targets (would be most logical to restore Stamina over time when affected by a Heal over Time power). That may be a little overpowered, though, I dunno. Would really need to see it in practice. Maybe a feat that restores caster Stamina whenever targets are healed? I can see why a final decision hasn't been made yet.
I have to admit, besides Guardian Fighters (who have the mobility of a wet noodle when out of combat), Clerics aren't the most "nimble" of classes. That may make sense from a class standpoint, but it does become painful out of combat when all the wizards teleport ahead, fighters and warlocks zip ahead, etc. So some kind of change would be nice to see.
And thank you, Chris, for giving us updates.
UNDERSTATEMENT. This is awesome and perfect! I see I'll be spending another weekend in Preview.
Okay, on this: YOU. HAVE. NO. IDEA.
I've always HATED the Cleric Dodge - it was always lacking and UP (Under Powered) compared to *every other class*, including GF! I've never brought it up because I frankly didn't have an ounce of hope you guys (and gals) would even consider looking at it.
For me: THIS is the bigger Yippee-ai-yay! THANK YOU.
My hope: That's you'd at least set the stamina to allow three dodges (at the same distance for each dodge). It always felt like either not far enough, or one charge short.
WOOT! AWESOME, thank you!!
CWs are mages, and agro a bit which is why they have more.
Well both are true actually,depending on how you look at it, at least in my experience.Healing is lower but the protection is better.What I mean by that is,for me at least,most of my healing comes from astral shield on Live.But astral shield no longer heals and that greatly lowers my actual healing numbers.The absorption that Astral Shield is now offering in empowered mode,however,outperforms the heals I could do with it,specially when combined with other defensive abilities to fully absorb small hits and greatly mitigate big hits.None of these shows up as "healing",but I can protect my team just fine.
Also,on Live,I sometimes use sunburst in dungeons,which also added a bit of healing.On Mimic,I don't, due to the annoying knockback.So there's a bit of healing loss from that as well,as I replaced it.
The main issue I have with support in pve is bug-related.As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts,Shield of the Divine and Agent of the Divine are bugged and don't seem to be triggering properly on allies,they only heal the DC.This further decreases the healing output we do,compared to what would be expected.
In general,I'd say that,for PvE,the changes have:
-Greatly improved my own damage contribution.
-Kept my defensive support at roughly the same levels,mostly improving my proactive protection,while decreasing my reactive protection,if that makes sense.I cant top up people as easily after they get hit,but I can help them minimize damage they take in the first place.This is, in most cases, fine,since people will just use a potion or lifesteal their way back to full health anyway, if they get hurt.My heals on live were often just healing HP my allies would have recovered regardless,only a small amount was actually the "life saving" kind.
-My offensive support has slightly decreased,mostly because,in order to get a damage bonus -almost- as good as Live version's Divine Divine Glow,I need to cast 3 x Divine Divine Glow+ Divine Glow.By the time Im done casting all that,most adds are already dead.It's not that the encounter is weak,it's already very powerful.But it takes a while to finish 4 animations,compared to 1.I also don't really like how I'm "penalized" for using buff dailies to help my allies,by being locked out of AP generation for the buff's duration.It's kinda counter-productive,but since it's a global change that affects all classes,it would be unfair to demand a change solely for the DC.If it stays as it is on live for all classes though,that would be much better.
First of all,I'd like to see the 2 bugged capstone feats properly affect allies.Also,it would be nice if test of faith would either smart target the ally with highest missing % of hp,or be turned into a slightly weaker aoe version where up to 3 stacks seek out allies,with each ally affected by only 1 stack max.There's also the issue of generating these stacks.In solo or PvP,you get hit all the time,so Im usually sitting at 20 stacks.In dungeons though,DC rarely has aggro,which kinda disables this feat,unless you stand in red.Maybe hits on nearby allies could also contribute to stack building,but still limit it to 1 stack per second?
Lastly,when it comes to feats,the main issue is heroic feats,not paragon.As many have mentioned,there are a few that are extremely weak.But since you are asking specifically for paragon feats,I wont expand on that.
Awesome! Thank you for considering this
(On a side note: "Clerics and their blue balls of empowerment" Not sure how I feel about that xD Though seriously,thanks for the VFX addition,will be easier to keep track of our stacks now. )
Thanks crush for listening to us. Would be nice to see stamina cost reduced.
Since you've decided to give VFX to AS, please give it to Divine Exaltation too.
- Empowered Exaltation needs dmg OR CC immunity (ideally both)
- Please bring back the blue bubble VFX, I'M BEGGING YOU CRUSH!!!!!!!!!
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My brief two cents on the divinity rework. Sorry I've not read much of this thread beyond dev posts.
I appreciate the effort involved in the design and implementation and I like the healing ability of both the faithful and virtuous trees but I personally find it to be a rather chaotic playstyle. The things that most contribute to this are the speed with which divinity is gained and the ability to cast divine spells without cooldown.
What this means for me in practice is that I fill my divinity meter, rapid cast three divine spells (often the same one) and then cast an empowered spell. There's not a huge amount of thought going into which spells I cast as empowered and I often cast the other two encounters at this point as well, then go back to building divinity.
Whilst there is a desire to reach empowered state, it's so easy to achieve and is often overshadowed by divine spells. Normal encounter powers seem to take a back seat as well.
At this point I don't have any bright ideas on how I would change things and I have only been playing solo in IWD, that will likely influence my opinion.
^This. This says everything I want to perfectly except I would like to add that it seems we lack any feats that add buffs or debuffs in all trees. Now they are increase to either heals or damage only. Before there were feats that could also boost your recovery or power or make straight buff powers heal. A bit of a return to that would be great.