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Are DC changes really that bad?
yvictor122
Member Posts: 18 Arc User
Hey to all, I've been reading the feedbacks for the DC changes in mode 5 and was completely taken aback by the amount of problems, nerfs and silly changes that the devs would like to make us go through with our clerics. This is a question for those who tried the preview server- are the changes really that bad? Are they really trying to destory my favorit class?
My build is aimed for healing/damage hybrid. I do decent healing and top the dps charts 95% of the time. I love this. Are they really going to make this almost impossible?
I've read that healing is also being nerfed and that the devs are trying to make DC more of a debuff class than healing. Doe's that mean that the warlock is the new top healing class? why? are they planning on introducing a new healing class(driud hopefully)?
I know that this is all over the place, but I really love my DC and would like to keep her as my main, but if not then I will have to probably switch. I really hope they listen to the players and rethink these changes. If not I've a feeling that DC players will either quit or change classes... Either way the DC numbers in the game will plunge.
My build is aimed for healing/damage hybrid. I do decent healing and top the dps charts 95% of the time. I love this. Are they really going to make this almost impossible?
I've read that healing is also being nerfed and that the devs are trying to make DC more of a debuff class than healing. Doe's that mean that the warlock is the new top healing class? why? are they planning on introducing a new healing class(driud hopefully)?
I know that this is all over the place, but I really love my DC and would like to keep her as my main, but if not then I will have to probably switch. I really hope they listen to the players and rethink these changes. If not I've a feeling that DC players will either quit or change classes... Either way the DC numbers in the game will plunge.
Post edited by yvictor122 on
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Healing will be better, and damage will be better. Buffing will remain great (if not better).
It does take a bit to get used to the new mechanic, I think that's why people are having trouble. You will have to use your encounters and abilities differently to remain effective. It will almost feel like a new class in how its played. However, once you get a hang of the whole divinity thing - it's awesome.
I have spent a good amount of hours doing PvP and PvE (mostly in the new zone) as healing/DPS DC (i've gone maybe through 40+ respecs on 2 characters). It will be great. There is a lot of new options, and while some things are bugged - it will be better overall.
Like Herundrion says: people don't like change because of breaks your comfort level. Just like everyone one else: there are things I'm not really a fan of and others I like a lot. it's a major paradigm shift and it's clear the Devs are trying hard to implement our feedback as it fits into their new design (such as adding visuals to know when and how many Empowerment stacks we have). But the new design will trump the feedback as it were (fine by me).
Your best bet is to just copy a character over (or even just roll a new one) on Preview and take the new mechanics for a spin. It's definitely (somewhat) of a learning curve.
Thank you again guys:o
The Righteous path is, well, righteous. DPS is insanely beautiful and mobs melt. It's truly divine! (Okay, sorry for all the guns) - Righteous is the DPS path and I'm absolutely loving it. For healing you'll want Daunting Light (or is it Glow? I forget right now as I'm at work). Though the new default knock-back on Sunburst is actually really useful in Solo - and in party still useful (just remember to switch your twitch: you WANT divine version). LOL - and that's an example of the learning curve changes we have to make.
I am anxiously awaiting Nov. 18 so I can play the new version on Live. Already have a new DC completed the tutorial, but not the Crown quest yet - waiting for this.
Now you make me anxious...:D if the DPS is really that good then DC I shall remain:)
This fundamental reworking of the class was never asked for. What was asked for - repeatedly - was to leave the popular skills and boost the unpopular ones. Heroic feats needed a rework - not happened. Clerics woeful cc resistance (none) needed a rework - not happened.
So the result - end of the hybrid, which was the only really popular choice for the Cleric.
Full healing spec - not needed. Gear creep and Lifesteal sorted that out.
Full dps spec - if the group is looking for dps other classes are still way ahead. Why gimp the group with the Cleric?
That is why Cleric's went down the hybrid route - because the game doesn't need anything else from the class.
So now we have a dps spec that's lower than other dps classes, and full healing specs where they are not needed.
As for empowerment - not one Cleric asked for this clunky mechanic in any post since the beginning of the game. Changes to Sunburst, Astral Shield - again, not one Cleric in the entire history of the game asked for these changes.
Talk about listening to the playerbase....not.
So the class needed boosting - no argument there - it's been the poor relation for months. But the boost should have come from improving the unpopular skills, adding some cc resistance, fixing heroic feats, faster casting times on some abilities, remove Righteousness.
Not a fundamental reworking of the class mechanics - that was never asked for.
Boosting the class could easily have been done without this fundamental change to the class's gameplay. It would have been less divisive, quicker, easier to implement, and certainly with less bugs than this rework still has, even this close to going live.
What was ignored was the fact that some players really loved the Cleric play style, that's why they stuck with the class as others moved further ahead. and where looking forward to that play style with some extra boosts.
Learn a new play style - the answer is why should I? If I wanted a different play style I would play a SW or something. This is why the cleric poll on this unasked for rework is running at 3:1 against it.
These changes are divisive - when there was simply no need for them to be.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
"Yeah. But since when does anyone have a clue about what they want?"
There's several things that I am hearing.
One, is that you have a vision for the class. The other, is that devs have a different vision for the class. Your visions don't completely agree - you managed to work your way with the old DC style, that the devs created in the first place. However, now they're shifting it. Some people won't like it, other people who didn't like old DC will like it more.
That's just how it is, no one is keeping you here.
There's also PvP vs PvE issue and I think the devs are quite aware of it. You're mixing them up quite a bit. Hybrid clerics only exist in PvE. And these clerics don't need CC resistance. The PvP DCs need some CC resistance, but you bring them up in the same breath. Also, PvP clerics could use some more healing to mitigate the DPS creep (which you mentioned; and I must say that new DC can do fine healing in PvP). And, yes, all clerics need better Heroic Feats (imo).
I do agree with most of the points you're making. However, we need to clearly define where each issue appears.
And yes, changes are always divisive. All of them, not matter how small you think they are - I'll find you 50-100 other players who will not be happy with your proposed changes.
I think HR players just went through a reworking of their feat trees, in Mod4.
The rest still up-and-coming!
You cannot compare that to the complete reformulation of the cleric. If it had just been changes to the Cleric feat trees then it wouldn't have been enough, but my point is that it just didn't need this level of re-creation. Yet even after all this effort there are still long term issues that haven't been fixed with the current reworking.
And of course, whoever said that players don't have to be here - yep you're right.
At present I'm fighting my corner - apparently a futile battle
It's a reworking that I'm fundamentally opposed to, but after playing since launch where would I be if I didn't at least put my point of view across. But that's the way it sometimes is, that the game developers have different ideas than others, although I struggle to recall such a major change to a class's mechanics in a mature game in other ones I've played. Their decision to change it, my decision not to play, that's how it goes.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Performance will be better (because of the improvement towards paragon feats & some encounters, not necessarily the divinity rework), Although we gotta suffer a change of playstyle. Clunky mechanic & moar button mashing.. Empowerment will be the new divinity and there's no way to control when to spend the stack.. after you expend all the 3 divinity[which is the mini encounter now, generating empower stack.. kinda like an at will with more special effects], you are forced to cast the empowered normal encounter [new divinity] right after..
Because of that, strategic play [on spending divinity and positioning] will be a lot less crucial, and i'm guessing the class will just become another mindless paingiver hungry righteous DPS...
So many bugs, so little time.. really all those unnecessary work should be spent on improving the already existing powers & feats.
But alas, what's done is done... let's see how the people react when it come to live server.
Having said that however, I am a die hard cleric, If I can, I play the cleric type character in most rpg games, so I will accept any changes they make, no matter how badly they nerf them.
I also use Frost and Frostburn enchantments (Best-kept secrets if you ask me) and pretty much do what you do in Solo. The difference is instead of just blasting sunburst, I switch into Divinity first (no knickknack) and since the enchantment has only 20% chance to kick in I throw three blasts if I'm able. Then commence with the rest and yes I usually already have Divinity built up from the last fight.
I'm finding the new mechanic quite refreshing (as I am now getting used to it) and it feels better to me, everything (except animation/casting speed) feels snapper, more fluid. Though I understand today's build will include the casting speed improvements.
Sure it's a new play style for all of use. I was feeling just as frustrating as all the other naysayers, for about an hour of playing the new version. But now that I'm used to the changes, it feels a lot better, slicker, more fluid, snappy.
If you've (general "you" - not directed at anyone in particular) been actually playing the new version and still feel the same as you did before then that's fair. But most comments I'm seeing all include the words "it sounds like" or "I'm hearing" or "it will HAMSTER-off a lot of others", etc. Don't guess. Don't form your opinion on what you're reading or what others say. Drive it yourself and actually know what you're talking about. As for what others will think, let them decide for themselves.
TL;DR: (Directed at everyone) There's too much prediction going on by people developing opinions without actually playing the new mechanic. If you've played it (for at least an hour) and still feel the same way then that's fair enough. If not you're fear-mongering and scaring yourself along with everyone else.
I think you already know that we should not compare the new divine mode with the older.. because they are different. And that the new divine mode is our new at-will.. (due to spammability, but also not generating AP)
So, with that in mind :
Take for example bastion of health's empowered stack.. It is meant for clutch heal when someone is @ critical condition.
Can you reserve a 2x/3x empowered bastion for when a situation does arise? No, you gotta expend the empowered RIGHT AFTER the divine casting.. Whereas we can reserve our divine mode @ live when a situation does arise.
This is what i call as 'clunky' & 'fluid' gameplay.. The new one is clunky, while the older style is strategic gameplay with more mind involved. I'd say that the new style is mindless & more button mashing.
So can you pls elaborate what you meant by more fluid & slicker with the changes?
My 'prediction' is BASED on playtesting @ test server. No, it is not fear mongering.. I provide some bug reports along with feedbacks, of which some are taken. So, no.. i'd not take back my word. It DOES have a clunky playstyle. Doesnt mean i'd quit... I'd still play my DC, because DC is the closest one being a 'divine' healer. I'd surely learn to enjoy the new style.. but it's just that the older one is much more flexible & efficient, and most importantly allow more strategic use of our divine encounters.. while as for the new one is just spam spam spam nuke nuke nuke without much thinking.
Longstory short... our old 3 divinities are reduced to 1 (3 levels of) new divinity (empowerment).
So you have 3 divine dots ready, no empower.. so.. you divine HB them 3 times, recovering them, then switch to empower while they pot and finish healing them to cap with that empowered HB. Or are you saying you're completely out? Then you do HB, AS the thing they're fighting, watch them pot while you swap to divine, hit em with another HB, then hit em again with the empowered HB. I mean.. come on.. We're not in a void. They're going to react defensively and IF you are playing a healer type (it can be done) then a) them going that low is gonna be a fluke and b) your rotation for keeping stuff going will keep them going.
As for this? Try TR.
They're going from Stealth being their main thing to not. Any at-wills they do pops them out of stealth fast (other than GC of course). So yeah, MAJOR change of how they play.
As for the changes being altering of the whole system? Maybe the devs thought about what was asked for, increase healing/DPS/Buffs and came to the conclusion that just trying to tweak the current system doesn't work. What if the decision was 'how about an extra thing to really enforce the strength of the tools.' and they did that? You asked about being able to 'hold on' to empowered skills.. the original crafting of the empowerment had skill specific pumps.. and that was horribad. That's why it is how it is.. and instead of looking at this as a bad thing, it can be adjusted to easily. You *KNOW* when you got those 3 orbs going, your next thing is big. heal, shield, dps. It's going to be a solid hit. It's just a matter of adjusting to it.
I'm talking about flexibility, not about performance. Can you control when you want to expend your empowered? No, you gotta build up divinity first, then spend time casting the divine, and only then you can cast the empowered version. So, with this system, i cant choose when i want to expend the empowered 3x to cast when health lost is less than 30%.. I have to wait, not casting ANY normal encounters, to do that. Note that empower stack on bastion is more efficient the more target is @ critical condition
You gotta admit this is clunkier than the original style...? Why cant they just improve the power while keeping the already existing style? Tell me if bastion @ live currently is viable.. no, they're not.. why? The amount of healing is horid.. @ preview, the bastion's power & function is MAJORLY improved.
Now tell me, if the bastion's base healing & regen isnt added @ preview, will the DC able to heal as good with ONLY the DIVINITY REWORK? You're comparing the cleric @live & @preview as a whole (with the improvement towards feats & encounter power already integrated for the new style.. while i'm only talking about flexibility & efficiency of the old style)
Yes, I meant Bastion of Health. On live I used it when leveling up my DC (mod 2..) and it was a decent heal. Slow, but it'd heal people. Divine mode just healed more. It didn't seem that big of a deal to me either way. After the patch today on test, it's suppose to be faster.. it's already faster in casting in general too. So they made it more viable.
As for 'clunk' between old and new style? Honestly, my feeling about it is that the old style was kind of 1 note. You had your move. You had a slightly stronger move. That's it. I feel this rework with the new style of divine mode skills is actually increasing the potential. Not only do you have your base, you have the modded and then the finisher, like I had mentioned.
So.. no. I don't feel it to be clunkier. Actually I feel like I can now do more in the system than before. I got more potentials.. I can use the same move or mix it up and I can follow up with the empowered finisher. I like that. I'll fully admit I haven't tested for a while now. I'm planning to change that this weekend. Talking just the skills, just the way it occurred, the new way wins to me.
The substantial increase to cast speed of divine has yet to reach preview.. other things include:
* Punishing light & Soothing light divinity consumption
* The 3 blue orbs VFX for empowered indicator
* Divine Astral Shield VFX
What bad changes man?rly??
Now every noub can healing and super healing, u see 14k and less DC and go eLOL/eSOT and ToT(not CN becose everythink go CN those days).
changes is good rly but make easy gameplay for every DC in game...
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
I tried 2 trees of the new DC (not the healing one). I think for an hybrid class it will be OK. More dps, a bit slow to dodge (a dev note said they ll change that), and still a correct level of healing. Yes, astral shield is different now and the way we are going to heal will change.
I did not run any DD with a team (just mobs, small boss, pvp ice) so difficult to judge the quality of heal in real conditions. But I had the feeling the new DC will be more complex to play and more interesting. Probably, new gear of mod5 will give us a possibility with deflect/defense or recovery/LS to be OP in pvp.
My DC time sped up immensely, at least double if not more!
I felt a serious lag when on live. But with the empowerment finisher, it's very impressive on preview. I quit playing on live just because the pattern of fighting IS different. However I feel (in my own, humble opinion) that the changes are good. I know plenty of people have talked it up, but I like the added layer and it doesn't feel odd to me. Indeed, it's live with how much slower stuff is in divine and the wait to cycle again that feels odd now.
I would highly recommend everyone to try on test if they can. You won't be
People complaining about changes, well, sorry to say it to you, but you're delusional astral shield spammers, because DC was never as powerful as it is now.
Healing is much better, DPS increased by 100% at least and more if you go righteousnesses, if you don't like pressing buttons try some non brainer, plain class, like GWF, because me and my righteous, buffing AC DC rocks both pve and pvp.
WTB Class Reroll please
That exactly too much dps everywhere , i was pvping alot with my 18 k pvp cleric and all i wanted to see is less damage in alot of classes and abit buffing on my heals so ppl like me dont die in two hits from BiS players (33k hps on my toon with purified)
Thosee 20 k heals bastion of health is doin should be on single target healing spells not aoe . game just feel unbalanced and broken . Dont QQ ppl when they repeatedly nerf us after these changes once again .
Overhealing is not pr0 is lame managing no cooldowns is not pr0 its just .... meh .
Personal opinions ofcourse ... but i dont understand why they had to completely change something not broken to create something that will need alot balancing all over again .
Seriously guys do you like the feeling spamming 4 times divine glow for maxx debuff ? or u just cant be arsed doing it ...