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BiS Armor Set
seventhpillar
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 216 Arc User
For so long, HV had dominated the armor set and has been known the BiS armor since I started this game back in beta. I remember the days when they used to stack with other CWs while it's buff/debuff stacked 3x per CW. Then it got nerfed to no longer stack with others but still stacked to 3x. Now that it doesn't stack with other CWs and now just buffs/debuffs to only 450 defense, I find it only useful when I'm soloing, since it's guaranteed another CW will be using it on a party run. Not only that, the 450 defense buff/debuff doesn't feel that much enticing anymore. Don't get me wrong, it's still a good set with good stat distribution and easiest to build upon. However, to me I feel the new BiS armor set is the Corrupted Black Ice. Yes it has lesser power and recovery stats but once you balance all the stats out, it pays big time. The control bonus works well in this current mod when CWs are forced to trigger procs, not to mention the glyphs that have been introduced. Not only that, it also provide better defense and DR which gives you better survival chance. The only downside is the empowerment feature which isn't that all bad. I have been using the corrupted set for a while now and sometimes I run with other CWs, they are surprised that I am wearing them and equally surprised when they are out damaged by a large margin. Really the key is finding the right balance and min/max the stats that would rival the HV. The control bonus coupled with the glyphs and corrupted power bonus to me is way better than what the current mod4 HV brings, even with my reinforced gloves. The limitations of the corrupted set on stats can be easily remedied by armor kits.
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
Post edited by seventhpillar on
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I have no basis to compare the two, but I will say CBI is good armor, I like it, and I'm glad to have it. I'll still be working on getting my HV set too though, since CBI doesn't debuff for a party and another CW is no guarantee on a guild run.
I'm not crazy about the upkeep costs, but that's largely because anything that adds grind time to one character inhibits being able to play multiples. Less of a big deal for people with more focus.
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my HV set has been untouched for months now. I wear he 4/4 corrupted in both PVP/E to make up for lack of power I just have radiant 10s in all offense since all the other stats are pretty good from the BI gear. but for glyphs, I just throw in blues for pve and of course reds for pvp >.> also your companion bonuses play a big part in pve with the stone being active. I use two empowered 10's and a 9 for now on offense so my power is over 9k which is plenty :P and with the intel belt, its not hard to top dps much anymore. I don't even change out my profound rings ad other non BI gear for pve
If your stacking CWs and others are running HV that's one thing.
Using a different armor set because it gives you an edge on Paingiver at the expense of a 30% damage buff to high HP mobs for your entire team....well...to each their own.
P.S. you will do more damage with HV than you will with BI gear even if you end up lower on the paingiver list for it. (with the exception of trash that falls over dead in one rotation anyway).
Paingiver is highly overrated, and often doesn't reflect what is really going on.
The biggest thing you can do to increase paingiver is switch to a non optimal encounter rotation so you can get your biggest hits in first while the trash is still alive and then put out ST or something else to stack HV after the trash is dead effectively wasting a significant amount of dps (30% * 4) on the mobs that take more than one rotation.
Trust me, I really wish HV wasn't BIS, but it is hands down the winner.
and no, if we're talking about pve it's not about 450 defense that HV is stealing from mobs. it's pure 30% damage boost to the whole party attacking those mobs. the other thing is that not every cw can stack HV debuffs properly - tho it's a different story.
corrupted is good only for its overloads (you know red glyphs). and i highly doubt those 'a bit too broken' enchants will be left with the same effect for a long period. on the other hand, devs are ready to shock us any day of a week so who knows..
anyway if CBI suits your playstyle there's no need to explain to anyone why you wear it
Black Ice? Not me. Too much grind and I'm not doing the batteries not included, ever. If they stay on that path, I have no problem playing another game.
That's the thing, I agree with you if it was back in mod 3. Before it clearly stated stacks up to three times. Looking it now on mod 4, it doesn't say it stack anymore and I'm looking at ACT to see if it still does but I clearly do not see it nor see any indication it still does. I may just be looking at the wrong area in ACT. If you can point that to me, that would be great and parse to see if it still does.
If i may add a few details, why the HV still rocks for me.
Firstly in dungeons the RNG monster isn't so bad like in Icewind, my CW couldn't get ANY of the Black Ice parts needed to complete a set, nada. If you are very unlucky in getting all HV pieces, you still can save up the AD and buy it on AH, with BI gear this is impossible.
Secondly i am not egoistic, i want to help the team i run with, even if i have to sacrifice some damage, but not needed, HV is on par or even better, than a same CBI armor set with the same enchants.
Thirdly some of you may only laugh about this, but this game is international, many players from poorer countries- like myself- play the game too. For us a decent HV set is better, we can't afford the money for rank 10 enchants, kits, orange artifacts, all purple companions to iron out the missing stats.
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HV 16k dps.
Draconic, corr-BI(red dragon glyph) 15-15k dps
SW, 2-2 DL/MC set 14-14k dps
Case closed for me...!
Well I didn't adjust lesser recovery for the latters but I doubt it will change the results significally. Maybe more testing required.
I must admit I excepted more from corr-BI or 2-2 power sets for single target.
CW has only party buff sets and doesn't really have single target buff sets like SW which has the game best (imba)self-buff set the accursed diabolist which can give the owner 15-20% extra dmg explicitely shown damage in ACT. Not just some urban legend that HV is giving 30% dmg self and the whole party.
Can someone even confirm that 3*450 defense reduction means 30% dmg...? Who can tell for sure how new monsters defense are working now?
Not to mention in single target you cant put enough HV stacks. Only Chill strike/Ice Knife does.
Red glyphs need ticking (dots or multihit) to shine. hitting stuff with chill strike, icy rays or ice knife, etc is not optimal for them.
they shine with the aoe stuff like Icy terrain, Steal Time , Oppresive Force and well conduit of ice.
Other glyps are even worse.
Red glyphs were giving 9-10%. dmg.
The black one gave only 2%.
- HV seems better, DPS wise. I managed to put about 9200-9300 Power on it without me even trying too much, and with some r7s as well. My issue: as a PvP spec, I couldn't amass enough LS to be able to solo draco with HV, and I'm too squishy as well. 7-8% LS - won't keep you alive.
- Purified, lower Power (like 8200 or so). Tank CW - 42K HP lol. 13.2% LS OP as hell. Reds, not entirely necessary to solo Draco, but they help a lot.
- Corrupted - didn't try it yet. I probably never will, because I'd have to put LS kits on it replacing my HP ones and that will never happen, or buy Cleaving rings for my stone etc. Seems a very good set though.
So I use HV up to Draco. Sometimes to Draco as well, but if we wipe once, I am putting on Purified and basically soloing the fight if anybody dies on me. It's like turning on cheat mode :P
As an older CW that was here for more than a year, I still like HV better overall. I tried to use it even in PvP when everybody already had BI sets. Too squishy
Steal Time puts up 3 stacks of HV. If your doing a single target fight as Thaum use Steal Time for HV stacks. Chill strike puts up 2 stacks & Entangling force puts up 1 stack, so you could use those, but don't unless there is a reason (such as mobility) as they put out less dps than single target Steal Time.
I'm not editing the below for readability, but you can get the info from it (copy pasted from spreadsheet). This is pure single target dps of a single ability being cast over & over for 5+ minutes each in Mod 4 (no other ability used). There is no 4 piece bonus in effect and no EOTS. Don't take the numbers to literally as you should run multi iterations to get the real dps with varying crit %, but it gives you a good idea.
Ability DPS Total DPS Storm Spell Assailant Creeping Frost Warped Magic Elven Ferocity Shadowtouched
Icy Terrain 404.26 2764.86 569.21 1023.63 703.85 31.59 16.87 15.45
Conduit of Ice 307.11 2278.11 525.26 959.28 399.48 59.91 14.89 12.18
Sudden Storm (tab) 887.18 1677.06 887.18 564.66 0 33.52 14.41 11.84
Ray of Enfeeblement 450.48 1311.18 39.41 712.43 0 80.18 16.28 12.4
Steal Time 423.53 1232.48 371.31 369.19 0 43.94 13.53 10.98
Icy Rays (tab) 772.39 1154.25 63.99 234.5 62.51 0 13.33 7.54
Entangling Force 327.41 1138.05 84.39 615.04 0 86.11 14.98 10.11
Sudden Storm 817.36 1037.43 124.55 73.47 0 0 15.13 6.91
Icy Rays 534.26 874.08 136.96 167.03 0?? 16.73 11.12 7.98
Chill Strike 397.4 753.46 15.47 238.18 48.35 27.3 13.97 12.79
From above info just for readability:
Ability Total DPS
Icy Terrain 2764.86
Conduit of Ice 2278.11
Sudden Storm (tab) 1677.06
Ray of Enfeeblement 1311.18
Steal Time 1232.48
Icy Rays (tab) 1154.25
Entangling Force 1138.05
Sudden Storm 1037.43
Icy Rays 874.08
Chill Strike 753.46
There are three exceptions: PvP, parties with multiple CWs, and crazy solo attempts like trying to solo CN. PvP players and people trying to solo dungeons need better survivability and benefit from the glyphs. Since High Vizier stacks don't go above three, if another CW is already using one then yours would be redundant. You and your group would benefit more from a Shadow Weaver set or a Black ice set.
So, in general High Vizier set is BiS. But there are exceptions.
Ah back in the day when we could stack HV past 3 stacks... Those were the days of some super nice crits.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Back in the days, you could have a ridiculous amount of stacks from shadow weaver. It was way stronger than high vizier haha. Especially when two CWs had the set.
It only goes up to 450 instantly when you use Steal Time on enemies and maximum number of mobs it can affect is 5. The Buff/Debuff value is 6 seconds, just enough for the EotS to take the place, for an example.
The 450 Armor reduction is still the most viable option for any CW around and those who don't use it are not really teamplayers. Not only does it reduce 450 armor of the mobs, but when several CWs wear it in the party, the whole things is much easier to go with, allowing far more options which tick around and this goes both MoF-wise and SS-wise.
BiS is a good armor set, for PvP primarily, because of the constant need to recharge it.
You outdamage others because you're not using the HV set, which means that you're using their buffs and not returning the favor along the line, not to mention that critical strike and arpen practically don't mean as much as the HV+Power combination, and especially with the oppressive force around. Include there the fact that EotS doesn't use Vorpal enchantment at all.
however, HV is still the best CW armor all-around for it gives debuff which the entire party may use for their benefit. For instance, Sentinel GWF with around 9-10k power can easily outdamage mod4 CW SS build thaum damage-wise.
However, I'm with you on the necessary changes and more viable options to choose from both party-wise and PvP-wise, including the 1-1 situations, but I strongly disagree with you that HV's outdated since I've had enough time to check all CW armors around and to find what works best for what party. With HV set it just goes faster and that's a good thing, unless there's a time limit for drops.
Given the Draconic set, Magelord is pretty much useless now and that's the only set which needs improvement. as for the Shadow Weaver, for instance, the set needs some improvements as well and also the same goes for the Dread Legion set.
Don't use the ACT which is clearly outdated plugin-wise for the MOD4 things. Furthermore, use Steal Time for the buff-debuff prior to any serious damage output. I see that it stacks in-game, and I notice that the damage goes from 16k up to 20k for sudden storm on critical strikes.
Substantially inferior to HV. The plague fire stacks with the HV debuff. I've run 4 piece Illiyanbruen. (it sucked). It's now the transmute skin on my HV. The extra power you're getting for the split set is , what 5% extra damage if your power is low enough. With HV, I see a 30% damage increase for 6 seconds (my whole rotation will just about fit in there: ST, OF, SS, closer of choice: SS while the OF in procing and before the Adds move = Adds dead....). I normally ride up the to the ToD mobs and pop that rotation doing my dailies. OF is mostly a waste (ie OVERKILL), so it's optional.
HV applies the debuff still, up to 30% increased damage (it's not decreased defense in PvE).
Now the real uptime on that might be less, but say 20% - it's still super good.
BI sets have their place - situationally. For example purified is really quite amazing for durability which is good if you are soloing something REALLY HARD. However it's a substantial DPS loss.
SW set - useful if you need the crit, which is the highlight of this set. If you don't need the crit (and most players don't) the HV set is better. Now, the buff here affects the whole team and probaly contributes significantly, but it's not 20% (i don't know how to track in ACT).
Remember you can ADJUST YOUR STATS through jewlery, artifcts and enchants so the set bonus is the most important differentiator here.
Now Corrupted (I don't have full set yet), gives you a little power buff, some of the time. Considering most of us are running around with 6k power (or more), this buff might be 1-2% personal DPS. 20% team DPS >>>>> 2% personal DPS.
Those people who for some idiotic reason think 2+2 is good - you get what? 450 power... ok, so that's less than 3% increase from 0 power. If you already have a lot of power, it's 2% dps increase. so great, 2% PERSONAL DPS or 20% TEAM DPS.
Obviously
20% TEAM >>>>> 2% personal.
Now if we don't consider that really specific archamage/opressor build, it's like this
PvE:
Hv >> SW > Purified > corrupted >> trash >> 2+2 and other sets
People who are using 2+2 in this tread - you are fooling yourselves. It's just plain bad.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Can't fight the stupid, you can just try to contain it.
But since you can roll a 12k Power CW with 38k HP in full HV in Mod5 with the new Jewelry...
Survivability isn't too important since you can dodge.
This is an optimistic delusion, you are going to get hit more than you think - obviously depending on party and situation.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Exactly, however they're usually using it to increase their GS, which for me is the prime example of a bad CW at hand who doesn't understand the mechanics behind the play, nor how to properly adjust the input-output.
Topic-wise, SW set is not procing adequately enough and post-MOD3 it's practically useless against the HV set debuff. Imho, even for a MoF it's a bad choice since Crit is practically not important next to the EotS in the team and you probably want to go full debuff. Ofc, it goes from party composition and the agreement is the key of amazing dungeon clearing.
Let's see it like this - a Sentinel GWF with 11k power (watermellon
Which is good Since as a CW, and especially with a HV set at hand, you don't quite have the HP to go inside and do Steal Time on each and every mob, even with 2.5k+ def and around 1k LifeSteal. You need someone to mark and take all the mobs on the Icy Terrain (come and get it + trample the fallen) especially after the nerf of the Singularity spell which is just a nostalgic decoration currently.
Now, that's all MOD4 stuff, but it just shows that HV plays a major role as a party component for some amazing damage sentinel GWF-wise. It practically leaves no time nor enough mobs to throw an Oppressive Force (unless it's CN or VT or even MC we're talking about where mobs do have some serious HP).
Even when you go solo, HV is still 30% of the damage you'd normally do with other sets, and that tells a lot for both Thaum or a Renegade and even the oppressor classes. This is not an opinion, this is a calculated and well known fact among the CW players who care about their class...so, if you want to chase the Gear Score all you need is to increase Recovery and HP :rolleyes: Gl with that. Smart players care nothing about someone's GS but, in fact, their skill. Skill's everything here.
Or put shield on tab, for instance, and stop being arrogant CW player who thinks that, for an example, Life Steal will help them in a situation where Valindra grabs them in a sweet hand.
All you might see and hear is
"Help!"
or
"Hilfe!"
So tired of that, honestly. Shield is such a good spell for hard bosses, especially those who have some AoE unavoidable spells. And especially when there's no GF and DC in the party composition.