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Mod5 Class Balance Feedback Discussion (PVP ONLY)
gcut123
Member Posts: 111 Arc User
I'm starting this discussion to discuss the upcoming class balance in module 5.
What are you guys's worries regarding Mod 5 PVP?
What are you guys's worries regarding Mod 5 PVP?
Post edited by gcut123 on
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- NERF GLYPH in PVP
- BETTER MATCH MAKING FOR PVP
- DIFFERENT LADDER FOR PREMADE VS NON PREMADE, NON-PREMADE TAKE "ONLY 1" PARTNER
- MORE PENALTY FOR KILLED PLAYERS, BETTER SURVIVAL SKILLS = MORE MERIT
- INSTIGATOR GWF IS NOT PVP VIABLE, RECOMMEND ADDING AC IN SOME FEAT!
- DESTROYER TREE IS HIT & RUN PUNCH BAG, NEED MORE DEFENSE STATS IN FEAT!
- MORE PVP TYPES THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE CAPTURE THE FLAG, TEAM WITH 100 KILL WINS IN A NEW MAP
- 3s STUN FEEL LIKE 0.9s - 1.5s in PVP, GIVE GWF AT-LEAST ONE PRONE LIKE BULL CHARGE
- BUG! AFTER PAGE 30, LADDER RANK FALLS EVEN IF I WIN GAMES!
- DR% in PVP is worth "0%" because everyone has RI% at 40+ (or most people in end game do)
- INCREASE VALUE OF TENACITY SO IT TACKLES HIGHER % OF CRITICAL SEVERITY
(40% DR CAN GET 30k CRITICAL DAMAGE FROM DIFFERENT CLASSES! BALANCED ???)
Pretty much, this.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
How awesome that could be.
The last man standing would be a 7v7 match (Rainbow classes in each team).
- Perma-daze TR's making non CC-Immune classes come and cry in the forums, then TR will be destroyed again
- Sabotuer GC goes exactly against what the devs wanted.
- Control Wizard will be the worst class in PVP in module 5 (again).
- SoulBinder paragon path will self-heal more than Pathfinder which would be a nightmare.
This is funny. I can infinitely stand and attack dummy with GC out of stealth with 0 recharge speed increase, using only 2 encounters and never ever leave stealth. Enter stealth->some GC hits->Impact Shot->some GC hits->Shadow Strike->some GC hits->Impact Shot->some GC hits->repeat till your eyes bleed. With BaS as a third encounter you'll able to do this in PvP even if you miss most of the GC hits. Stupid. Attacking from stealth must not be allowed, period. Give TRs unlimited dodges, 100% deflect severity, 50k HP whatever, I'm fed up with that perma-stealth BS.
Permas were fun to fight and all, but enough is enough, seriously lol.
They wanted to kill perma-stealth but made it even easier, they w0t m8 ?
I don't understand the logic here...
This GC troll build is going to be even more annoying/cheap than the old permas lol.
I was testing the new cleric righteous (dps) feats, and was a wearing profound set.
The good news is that it was in some way balanced, the bad news is the reason why.
I tried most of the spells out to see how they operate in PvP. Sadly, most of the cleric encounters are nearly useless in this fight.
Sunburst does not have the range to go against a mage.
Searing light does terrible damage.
Chains of blazing light is too difficult to land, and its default mode does nothing to stop the cw from casting.
Daunting light is too difficult to land.
Divine glow on todays build does very terrible damage, and it is very difficult to land.
Healing word and bastion of health healed for almost nothing.
Astral shield in default mode was unnoticeable, and the divine mode is worse. I never got off an empowered one.
Forgemaster's flame does fairly low damage, but it can be landed.
Break the spirit also does low damage, but it can be landed.
So basically what I found is that the encounter spells were almost not worth using. They do to little damage in too much time. These battles only lasted a few seconds!
Instead, I found just using sacred flame to trigger Fire of the Gods and generate divine power as the main spell, and then consuming the built up divinity with Punishing Light worked best.
I was never really able to flat out win a battle, he outgeared me by a bit, so this isn't too terrible. However, I was often able to take him with me, as my "Fire of the Gods" cooked him dead after I was downed. We had a lot of draws where we both died, however I always died first. I suspect that using the profound armor with its divinity bonus was an adequate choice, but I did not try black ice with overpowers.
So it all really just boiled down to that one feat "Fire of the Gods". Since it triggered off my at will, it seemed pretty cheap.
This is what amuses me honestly.
We're actually going to have to put up our guard when seeing a DC and take him seriously, something that has never happened since beta.
If we have divine versions of spells we could have PvP versions of spells - then changes applied to classes wouldn't affect both PvE and PvP.
I think the main problem is the GC spam on stealth that it didn't drain the stealth bar, which make it an effective tool to spam at-will while chaining with other stealth feat mechanic.
In my opinion, new stealth mechanic are quite solid, because people without gc will run out their stealth bar so fast, yet able to dish huge chunk of damage (100% crit rate yay), which make it win-win scenario.
Just explain it to dev how does the stelath spam GC still work and hope for a way out. I think there are many way out of this issues such as increase GC damage while make it drain 15% stealth bar (also the feat need to be changed), or make drain less stealth metter than other at-will.
It's either the damage, or the stealth depletion. The devs chose to nerf damage.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
gloaming cut nerf needs to be reverted, really 80% of the powers are not worth to be considered and what is left?
dazing strike, shadow strike ( like if i can consider to not take it -.-'' ) , bait and switch, impossible to catch
and maybe smoke bomb in the new build. stop
3 of those dont do damages.
they want me to be in stealth as less as possible? i want to play it like a gwf or Hr not a "pewpew" which die after 2 hits.
46k HP, 3200 defence, 35% deflect ----> still being 2 shotted by gwf / Hr
fun? maybe
i mean i m not asking for unstoppable or wild medicine, just gimme something rogue like that pushes me there!
I want something for my CW then cause it still feels like HAMSTER on preview and it will die 100% to TRs and HRs.
Any suggestions
Acutally, no. It's Disheartening Strike that needs to be toned down in damage... as well as all the other DoTs.
One of the very visible 'attractions' of mod5 preview is the evident rise of super high-damage DoTs, except while fun to use on the inflicting end, it's just plain lamestuff from the receiving end. It also makes the game passive and too much "sudden death" style. Two players play passively and defensively until one of them gets the jump and applies DoT first, and then goes super defensive until the DoT automatically bleeds the other dry.
I know I use the same thing against particularly tough opponents, but that doesn't mean I like it. At least all the CCs and Dazes are the result of direct combat with a distinct risk/reward involved. What does DoTs have? Either be the DC or the WK TR or the HR, just apply one, go super defensive, run around, hide, teleport/heal around.. and that one application of DoT does more than half the job for you.
At least the GWF intimidation, needs to be actively landed by charging into the enemy. It's more cheesy and passive than even intimidation, IMO.
[Edit] In theory, mechanic-wise, DoTs are basically not much different from the auto-proc damage stuff like Piercing Blade and its ilk. They apply a constant source of damage regardless of your actions.
If it be this powerful, then at least the duration needs to be shortened so the QoL worsens off for the person using it, constantly having to refresh and re-apply. Or, if it needs to be this long, then consequentially the damage should be nerfed.
You can't have super damage + long duration for DoTs at the same time.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
No Piercing adds extra damage based on damage you put. For TR and HR it is +40%-70% of damage. nothing else. You have to put original effect first. It is not Auto-Proc. No base attack no piercing.
This is not a dot. This +% damage to effect. EG Aimed strike is a dot. Piercing adds +40% to the dot tick.
Don't mix it with feet that do random damage and have chance of application effect. Is not that what CW currently have? Correct me if im wrong.
Mechanic wise, it's the same. The only difference is PB procs need manual activation (but nonetheless, once triggered just simply adds/replicates the effect automatically -- a "bonus" attack that happens without your direct input. In contrast, DoTs auto-refresh themselves. Whether it's manual or not, essentially it's the same thing: extra source of damage that does not require your action.
The problem is, in gameplay, each 'action' is a time spent for a certain purpose. When you move and weave and defend, you can't attack. When you attack, you're rooted and you cannot defend. DoTs bypass this rule, and in that sense its an extremely useful tool -- and when that usefulness creeps over a certain level, then its simply OP.
Here's a real example. Being a Whisperknife TR for the almost entirety of my gametime in NW, I (or any other WKs) probably realize this fact better than anyone else. In current Live, WK hits hard, yes, but not as hard in preview. However, the real difference in Preview is not just damage, but the fact that it lasts for 15 seconds and 11 ticks. In Live, it lasts for 5 seconds for 6 ticks.
At first, I thought it was a good change. As a matter of fact, for the wielder of this power, its a good change becuase one successful application of this power, and for a whole 15 seconds you don't have to reapply it. Compared to this, in live, its a real chore to keep reapplying it, and much more difficult to manage well because the duration is short.
Just by changing the frequency of the need to reapply the power, is enough to effect your rotations and bring a bit of a dip in your damage output... and those who deal DoTs as main powers, need that "dip" IMO.
The damage itself is useful. I like it. So I want my Disheartening Strike shortened to 6 seconds and 5 ticks again. Being able to deal 2.5k damage with 11 ticks that last for 27.5k worth of damage in 15 seconds... with ONE press of the button -- its too much. Like wise, the Careful Bullshi* and its 20 second duration is also a farce, as well as the Fire of Bullshi* the DCs use that just erases at least 50% of HP from a 40k HP is simply bonkers.
I'd say the "rule" to abide by is simple. Hefty damage, powerful DoTs? Short. Low but steady stream? Long. High damage + super long duration? GTFO
(ps) While we're at it, when in the world, are the developers gonna get rid of that bullshi* "apply CA once, hit with anything, and CA procs, which procs GPF, which procs CA, procs GPF procs CA... and with every one of those procs Red Glyph procs" HAMSTER?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Ok. So basically you are saying that all dots are bad. NP it is system wide class mechanic. So all of this is system wide change and not Bull CA as you are saying. This is your opinion.
What I don't want to to say as same is Piercing and dots. Piercing is not a dot. It is same damage sources as original attack. Just 40% of it. Nothing more. So you are "rooted" basically for both - original and PB.
Dots re different - they are ticks. You place original attack. You can do what ever you want while dot ticks.
Not only HR have dots. SW as example have same type of at will -Hellish rebuke. Dot that is triggered on every damage taken by target. And 1st is not single target only as CA for HR. 2nd does not have cool down for ticks as HR 1.5 sec - no matter what tiggers it GPF, Blades, or attack - it ticks only if it is after cool down - 1.5 sec. SW not Btw.
GPF can also proc SWs and in fact my SW now has it for pvp. It is just more useful to have Vorpal pve wise. And for every furry SW I do recommend to use terror btw.
I don't think devs will ever change the base mechanic of adding damage on damage inflicted. At least this is not feet damage that and random damage. But please don't mix PB with Dots. PB does not triggers next tick of CA for example. PB triggers only once per damage dealt.
Don't say I didn't warn you when you meet WK/Sabs.
Anyone who thinks a WK/Scoundrel with their dazes is threatening, should see what they do when they meet a WK/Sab/perma.
Doesn't even need to try and land GC like MI/Sabs. Crazy boosted Disheartening Strikes, never appear from stealth so you don't get no Life Steal. Just a 20.. 30.. 40 seconds of fight where you never see the enemy, but your HP keeps on dropping 1.5k~2.0k per second..
...and then, let's talk about if some of the super-powerful DoTs in the game are fine, or not.
(ps) The "best" part of all this? Disheartening Strike is an at-will. You can have 3 enemies standing and guarding the node, and all of them will have their HPs dropping every second for forever, while never even being able to swing or fling a single hit to the TR. Then, when all of them drops on the spot, dead from the DoTs, the TR can earn a nice triple kill and the node.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
such a lovely new mod for pvp
There's no node fight since long. TRs get out of node continuously while in stealth. You can talk about node fight in a arranged duel. In domination it's permastealth out of the node with in-and-out tactics. Once upon a time TRs used to fight on node. Not anymore. After all, all you need to do is either slowly kill the opponent then get the node, or keep 3 puggers busy running around searching for you, harrassing the enemy node forever.
On preview duels i got with TR, i got to chase them' as far as 60'+ to find them hiding after their attack.
My personal idea is that in pvp it should be a equal mix of attack-defend where during defense you actually need to dodge. If you can attack then bb i go hiding, see you soon when my cooldowns are cover, is not a fight. More like 'i can hit whenever i want, but you can never hit me unless you're both skilled and lucky+low latency'.
Current perma on live is supposed to be squishy, but the mix of tools they have actually makes them the class with the most survivability.
potb goes for so long and hits for such small amounts its impractical especially if theres a DC around and the other team are pot guzzling leetists
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I can face dev nerfed a lot of DPS and CC, while GWF can "initimidate" you with 20k or more damage and TR will be superstrong in mod5, so just give CW some defense bonus..
or upload a class fashion upper part with a target on our back
Teleports or speed won't help us when CCed.
This class needs a CC break/immune encounter. Or maybe some feat that would give a dodge with full Stamina 100% chance to break CC.
thanks