Just replied to show you how biased you are.
Let's suppose you get this buff.Also you get the other buff you have asked repeatedly ,the icy rays to go through block of GFs.
Can trully and honestly believe that any GF could have a 0.00001 % chance to defeat you?
You want cc break and you are a cw with 3 dodges ,the highest immunity frame in the game(AKA DAMAGE IMMUNITY) the highest dps ,the highest range ,the highest cc and you want also this?Common man PVP is broken already.
But i know why it is broken.unfortunately it is cause some guys like you(nothing personal) dominate the forums ,giving pseudo real arguments and feedback to the devs.Im MOd5 you got buffed out of nowhere with chaos magic being the surprise.
All of you made the pvp unplayable for melee classes.Carry on,no problem,when you will queue and you will find only fresh unfortunate lv60s to fight and 90-100 pvpers(mostly CWs and HRs and 5-6 TRs) ,to fight,then all of you ,you will come in the forums and you will start theorycrafting BS (as usual) about what went wrong.
CC break.What else.What to say.Hopeless.
this time you have right, cw ignores great part of tenacity, have a great stat that gives control bonus action points control resist and recharge speed, their class artifact gives control resist, their shield gives addiction control resist + tons of DR and now storm fury can tick up to 70k with a single aimed strike on them
i m not asking for nerfs but a cc breaker would be overpowered
I played all classes till end game and I found the previous version of CW really strong due to their dps and cc chain.
Probably the only one that could face a HR, just a metter of time, about who start his rotation first.
now, if you tab shield, you lost the 4th encounter and this could be balancing in a matter of dps, but shield does not really give you a big advantage, since it's calculated about a 10% DR but on a class with low hp, defense and deflect (only 25% damage avoiding).
Modify teleport could be too much, since now, a well timed CW could dodge a lot and move for a good distance (just need a little revise about GWF intimidation)
...If we have divine versions of spells we could have PvP versions of spells - then changes applied to classes wouldn't affect both PvE and PvP...
Great idea. With this Devs can finally let go of their attachment to the Divinity mechanic and reuse it in another form so previous efforts aren't wasted. Cleric then MAY finally get their baseline encounters up to par with the rest of the classes.
^^^^
Typical cw answer.....arrogant ,no arguments,generalizations,ridicoulig the opponent,trying to distract/close the topic...
Edit:i forgot to say..
CWs SHOULD NO LONGER IGNORE 66% of TENACITY for CC resistances.
Man that should and should not at same time. When player says CW is Weak they are right, but at same time those who says CW is strong are also right. Why, because CW is strong at weak lvl but is weak as high PVP lvl compare to other class.
The main problem of that is the lack of defensive system on CW. ANd that most from two point, 1 the fact that with eye of the storm CW start fight with 6 second critic So depending of your lvl it make a ful lrotate start between 15-25k of damage. behind that you have nothing left before waiting 20 second and 20 second on pvp it plenty of time time kill CW.
So since CW is a distant class it give two thing, 1 you ended to fight a CW with a character that is or low lvl or mainly PVE with max 28-30 K HP and pretty low defense (max 2.5k)and you lie on the floor most of the time because CW strike first. 2 you have a more PVP oriented character (with more HP and more defense ) and Here CW is lost most of the time.
WHen you goes HL PVP the CW doesn't change and you don't get much much survivavibility while your damage doesn't follow (that is mainly due to the fact that CW have all defensive value starting from 0 and defense can be passed by all fighter class due to extra DRI from power or dext or cons).
The last point is that max power of CW come from DOT and with some class mechanasim on mod 5 that can ignore DOT it will give an other problem.
So reducing in a way or an other CW damage may give on low lvl much better chance but will kill on other hand HL PVP CW.
ALso one last funny point due to multi cry of player about CW control, CW that is supposed to have the highest control in the battlefield is now one of the worst due to many specific change done.
So here the dilemma. try to make change that may reduce a little CW damage to make it on same lvl as low character or pve character, but on other hand try to give HL CW more a chance and defensive .
For me the two point on that t orework should be EOS that should not be activate from start and V3 on that was good
But also shield in both tab and no tab should be rework to offer better defense and be more synchro with defense SO when low lvl player it should provide less defense than actually but on HL player it should provide more defense that it actually does. (exemple, non tab shield actually is 50 % full 25% when hit, you can do like that when full you get dev+ RI value and when low only RI value reduce)
So by putting shield value like that low lvl player or pve player will have a weaker shield than actually but on other hand HL PVP player will have a better one
I was a non perma as well in PvP and I was both called all sorts of nasty things by the enemy (perma always included) and all sorts of nasty things by my team (non-perma always included). I tried to make it a game of who could come up with the best new and unique insult, but I found the imagination of most participants to be less than promising (e.g. the same misspelled tell repeatedly spammed 50 times in a row didn't make it any better).
so i guess im not going to be going on my dc until tomorrow or that day afterwards to see what people think. I want to be more of a tank in pvp so i was thinking that AC Path would be better but with all the new changes i dont know if choosing Divine Oracle is just what i should stick to. thats what im already using. as of right now im not a tank at all. I tested the virt feat path on preview. being a DO. have to say i feel like healing is so easy. We did a dungeon 3 trs and 2 dcs in the TOS. Not one of us left 80% health once. The dc i was playing with was all heals and i was using All debuffs. having another dc in the group was amazing because we did so great but i still dont know what im going to choose. I like the healing but with pvp i would love to be more tanky.
Hi Synfried.
I read your post ,you see the situation from a CW's perspective,which is natural,as i see things as a GF.
I disagree in some things and some clarifications:
1)Defense is provided to CWs by game mechanics.That game mechanic is the 80s range.Giving you more defensive mechanisms than really have,would make a toon unkillable.You have already the highest dps ,the highest CC,3 dodges that in addition provide an immunity frame of nearly 0.5-1 sec each.Immunity frame=in reality DAMAGE IMMUNITY.
In addition,nothing stopping you to add more defence to your char.But you cannot have the whole of the pie and your dog well fed.
A gf/gwf has to select carefully his choises.He cannt block together and do damage at the same time.He has to choose.Same with GWFs.
2)The problem and the animocity of the slow warrior classes against CWs is caused indirectly by deflect.Strange hah?I ll explain.
CWs in high pvp try to cc/dps the HRs.HRs have near to 50% deflect by feats and gear.Add tenacity and CC resist bonuses and you end up vs a nearly uncontrollable toon.So CW community is pushing to aquire more CC.While it helps their odds and their cc duration again HRs in a small margin,it is completely OP vs other low defelct classes.Which are these?DCs GFs ,destro GWFs.
You do not understand in the heat of battle but sometimes you can perma cc a pvp GF.being 2 of CWs?Consider it quaranteed.
But you ll say :common man it is 2 vs 1 ,what do you expect?".The problem here is your range and your huge dps/dot/glyphs.In simple english while 2vs1 in other classes require some time to get into position and the focused toon can put a fight,vs CWs it cannot.He will be killed in 2-4 secs max.Sometimes he will not even see them or see just one of the two.(second stayin in pillar ambushing).
With so little time prequisitive to kill a pvp toon ,Cw combos can do this and annihilate 2 or more enemy toons before the enemy team comes in range.And in current pvp numerically superiority wins.
To put is simple you already have too much dps and cc against certain classes.Your problem is the dificulty to cc the HR.Asking for more makes CC ,makes some classes easy picks for you.
And ask yourself a question.When you are in mid and you see the enemy team coming ,among them a GF..?Which more often you attack first?Just think.
The problem of CWs "lack of control" is in reality the high deflect some classes,mainly HR,can achieve.You are already are overkill against other classes asking for more make you to them completely broken.
You said CWs can only kill low pve toons.I am a modest GF ,close to average, 18,6k gs .45k hp,18% tenacity,46% DR,26% deflect,2000 regen.
In all the games if i do not slot Steel Grace and wear greater elven,i end up killed first ,always by cws.I am focused in every game by the cws in the past 2-3 months.In every game.I don not play domination i play "dom against CWs".Whole games me and them chasing around who will kill first.Tired of that.
What about lower gs GFs?With out Steel Grace feat or elven battle enchantement?They cannot even fight.If focused they are simply dead.From 60-80s range.Do you find that fair?Is it resonable for you?To be killed ,while you did not even reached mid and just die in entagling force and then icy rayed?
Whenever CWs decide by contempt or by luck,to focus on a GF,GF is dead.This is not fair.Same to a lesser extend for destros GWFs.if they are focused ,game over.
Solution is :To "nerf" the deflect stat ,as concerning its ability to reduce stun/cc.And finally CWs no longer to ignore tenacity for CC reasons.This would lead to a balanced pvp,as concerning CC and CC resist ,to my opinion.
Edit:I have nothing against CWs.CWs poor blood first by opening threads against GFs and asking gf nerfs.
Ex:make bull charge into a prone.
Ex:Icy rays should go through block.
Ex:Knight challenge is doing too much damage.
Ex:AoDis doing too much damage.
Ex:GFs have too much stamina.
Ex:Gfs hit too hard.
Ex:Gfs have too much hit points...
^^^
All of these nerf demands against a class with the less players,with Dcs, in the first 50 pages of leaderboard.13 a week ago(some of them frozen alts-derelict reflect glyph builds) i counted.13 in 50 pages.And you think GFs would not retaliate?Common.
the problem by speacking like you are is showing is for most an non understanding of thing.
1 the best ranged class is not CW it's HR in term of range.
When i say CW have absolutly no defense, it's no joke. you say up defense on CW, but any reasonable HR,TR,GWF and GWF will goes more than 35 armor neutra, and to get 35 armor neutro with a CW you need to get more than 4000 point in defense. That mean 0 or 4000 defense it a waste of point against most class. So CW have no choice but to focus more than other on offensive stat.
CW have also an other particularity that no other class have. they have no control immun.
The main difficulty is to come in range of CW and as you said that the only defense that actually a CW have. You speacking of dodge but do you know that CW have 0.5 second of immobility after dodge. we are freezed.
You re saying that when 2 CW control you.. and so what if two GF come on me at same time i'm also dead. i will not be able to control both. (neitheir we actually can control one).
you are saying about DPS, but again you take exemple from mutli player, one control you, an other dps you, you come here and cry CW have control and DPS. on my CW: here my default stats fro pvp on my best spell (withou crit ok but also without counting tenacity or damage resistance left or deflect). 1 ice dagger: the only real damaging spell at 15k, second icy ray between 6 to 10 k depending of your paragon path. rest is 4 k and less. and ho we may have assaillant for 5-6 k and if slotted storm for 3 k when it proc. honestly On my 12 k GWF i already have better dps than that.
the main real difficulty again CW is the flashy start we get from eye of the storm that allows us to start the 6 first second with critic. without ICE dagger ready i have no way to handle a fight again a high. (for your knowledge i got a fresh 55 k hit from a GWF behind my shield and 225 tenacity in first hit).
So yes to resume killing a gf before he caugh us is mainly our only survive way because no defense mechansim and our survivability is under 5 second on a good one if he caugh us.
And last point the value i'm giving is with PVP spec taken, mean i sacrified some pve dps to get those value, if not you can drop 30% damage(that the main cry of some player agaisnt CW that we are supposed to over perform in both pve and pvp, but in reality pve specced we are dead meat in pvp, mostly one shot and with only aoe power stronger but that require seconds to be cast.
ALso one last big problem on CW that never show in test is depending of who we are fighting the spell needed are absolutly not the same. repel is good against GF, icy terrain agaisnt GF, steal time againt rogue, entrengling force against cw and DC, ray of enfeeblement against gwf. and WE canno't stack all at same time depeding of who we are ending against. i take GF config and ended again a rogue, i'm dead meat unable to target him, take rogue config, canno't launch steal time against gf and GWF and HR i will be countered during the time i'm lauching it
the problem by speacking like you are is showing is for most an non understanding of thing.
1 the best ranged class is not CW it's HR in term of range.
When i say CW have absolutly no defense, it's no joke. you say up defense on CW, but any reasonable HR,TR,GWF and GWF will goes more than 35 armor neutra, and to get 35 armor neutro with a CW you need to get more than 4000 point in defense. That mean 0 or 4000 defense it a waste of point against most class. So CW have no choice but to focus more than other on offensive stat.
CW have also an other particularity that no other class have. they have no control immun.
The main difficulty is to come in range of CW and as you said that the only defense that actually a CW have. You speacking of dodge but do you know that CW have 0.5 second of immobility after dodge. we are freezed.
You re saying that when 2 CW control you.. and so what if two GF come on me at same time i'm also dead. i will not be able to control both. (neitheir we actually can control one).
you are saying about DPS, but again you take exemple from mutli player, one control you, an other dps you, you come here and cry CW have control and DPS. on my CW: here my default stats fro pvp on my best spell (withou crit ok but also without counting tenacity or damage resistance left or deflect). 1 ice dagger: the only real damaging spell at 15k, second icy ray between 6 to 10 k depending of your paragon path. rest is 4 k and less. and ho we may have assaillant for 5-6 k and if slotted storm for 3 k when it proc. honestly On my 12 k GWF i already have better dps than that.
the main real difficulty again CW is the flashy start we get from eye of the storm that allows us to start the 6 first second with critic. without ICE dagger ready i have no way to handle a fight again a high. (for your knowledge i got a fresh 55 k hit from a GWF behind my shield and 225 tenacity in first hit).
So yes to resume killing a gf before he caugh us is mainly our only survive way because no defense mechansim and our survivability is under 5 second on a good one if he caugh us.
And last point the value i'm giving is with PVP spec taken, mean i sacrified some pve dps to get those value, if not you can drop 30% damage(that the main cry of some player agaisnt CW that we are supposed to over perform in both pve and pvp, but in reality pve specced we are dead meat in pvp, mostly one shot and with only aoe power stronger but that require seconds to be cast.
ALso one last big problem on CW that never show in test is depending of who we are fighting the spell needed are absolutly not the same. repel is good against GF, icy terrain agaisnt GF, steal time againt rogue, entrengling force against cw and DC, ray of enfeeblement against gwf. and WE canno't stack all at same time depeding of who we are ending against. i take GF config and ended again a rogue, i'm dead meat unable to target him, take rogue config, canno't launch steal time against gf and GWF and HR i will be countered during the time i'm lauching it
Preach it! I have said the same thing over and over again. And it comes back to this. "All" other class with the exception of DC gives up nothing for what it gains. A dc gives up a HAMSTER load of damage for its ability to live and epic heals. Fair in my book. What does the HR,TR,GF,GWF SW (questionable because it cant dodge but ehh it got jesus mode >.>) give up? Answer...NOTHING. Trust me if you gave all the other classes the deflection rating of a cw ....muhahahaha DEATH. Defense helps however its not going to get you through all. Deflection is op and darn near every other class has a lot of it. And the kicker is they don't even have to stat for it......REALLY? So yea I agree with this guy 100% CW if anything should be buffed more.
When your 21.8gs and hitting a tr only to see all hits deflected then get freakin 2 shoted yea...... CW is by no means tanky and if people are going to stack deflect we need to hit harder unless this game is going to come to its senses and nerf the helll out of deflect as its an op advantage that a cw does not have. So hell no CW is not op. The fact that a person can deflect everything is op. Suggestion deflection CD 1 deflect= 5 sec of non deflection. Problem solved because let me tell you no game I have played has ever had this kinda HAMSTER with deflection. Hell only tanking class would have it so .....yea
I am a 22k gear score CW, I’ve played thousands of 1 x 1 PVP, open world and domination. I posted a month ago the suggestion of cutting 50% to our spell casting time (activation time) because it cripple us down for PVP and serve no purpose in PVE. Module 5 gave us 40% reduction on some spells and it's great. Now developers can you complete those changes by cutting the activation time of Conduit of Ice 50%. Can you also make Steal Time and Sudden Storm usable in PVP buy cutting 50% of the activation time of Steal Time and make the Slowing Time working on all class without any immunity, so the activation time will slow everyone for around 1.5 sec (not a big deal) and make this spell able to interrupted TR Stealth and immunities (so TR will have to use knowledge and good play by using there encounters to compensate instead of always disappearing and strike while immune, stealth or stunning without us having no way to fight). Can you reduce Sudden Storm activation time by 60% and the resulting Bolt of lightning strike to be done 50% quicker so we will be able to use that spell in PVP?
For last I think that CW Stamina (stamina bar) should go up 20 to 30% faster so we will be more able to fight against charging GW anod HR.
And my final thought is that Tr DPS is way too high for PVP considering of all the stealth, immunities, stuns… While in PVP TR Lashing Blade, Bloodbath, Impact Shot… DPS should be cut down by 35% at least and Dazing Strike daze reduced to 50%. Since module 5, even a 12k stealth can rule over other class (got one 12k TR killing me this morning with a 30.6k critical strike using Bloodbath) and 19k and higher TR are killing everyone in Domination even 3 to 4 on 1 or doing a lot of damages to everyone and run away before getting kill for returning full health a couple seconds later (that’s crazy unbalance PVP non sense).
Like I’ve posted before it won’t change or add any PVE balance but it would improve PVP feel and balance to a certain satisfaction over the frustrations of being constantly interrupted while were trying to play. That change can be done very easily and I think will resolve a lot of the obvious PVP unbalance against CW and I’m sure will have a good impact on our appreciation of the game instead of being frustrating most of the time.
I agree with almost everything your saying but its like the devs do not understand the system of trade off. lower def/resistance= more dps. Higher= lower dps. The logic here is really simple. The community just qq's but nearly every person here has played other mmos and knows how this go.... The current situation is not right at all. On top of that I have never in my life seen melee have so much ranged.... This is just down right silly. When people say the top ranged class ....they really need to be more specific because if your disabled from a range of 50 and then the person charges you what the hell is ranged really considered as? Ehh like I said your right on track with your post. Just hope it gets heard out.
Preach it! I have said the same thing over and over again. And it comes back to this. "All" other class with the exception of DC gives up nothing for what it gains. A dc gives up a HAMSTER load of damage for its ability to live and epic heals. Fair in my book. What does the HR,TR,GF,GWF SW (questionable because it cant dodge but ehh it got jesus mode >.>) give up? Answer...NOTHING. Trust me if you gave all the other classes the deflection rating of a cw ....muhahahaha DEATH. Defense helps however its not going to get you through all. Deflection is op and darn near every other class has a lot of it. And the kicker is they don't even have to stat for it......REALLY? So yea I agree with this guy 100% CW if anything should be buffed more.
When your 21.8gs and hitting a tr only to see all hits deflected then get freakin 2 shoted yea...... CW is by no means tanky and if people are going to stack deflect we need to hit harder unless this game is going to come to its senses and nerf the helll out of deflect as its an op advantage that a cw does not have. So hell no CW is not op. The fact that a person can deflect everything is op. Suggestion deflection CD 1 deflect= 5 sec of non deflection. Problem solved because let me tell you no game I have played has ever had this kinda HAMSTER with deflection. Hell only tanking class would have it so .....yea
The worst in that is when those who complain you say them well if CW such a god mod why not simply do one. When CW was in such poor stat in V3, same guys were still complaning again CW (i remember a GF GWF player that was crying after CW and i posted well did you loose against a CW he reply i never lost against A CW but was still complaining.)
AT V3 i started a GWF to specificly do PVP, but i simply change my mind in v4, i simply stop pvp and goes to see time to time how thing turn in pvp, and play both my CW and GWF in PVE. So after i made that resolve i only post when i see some hudge cry or some stupid post of i want some god button on my class (like the first 3 line of clonk sugg, where he mainly ask for a defensive lvl on GWF that is higher than what they had on V3 (at that time a destroyer was as tanky as a GF) and he don't really get what would appens in the class itself with only one paragon class played and also that it would be such overpowered that it would take one week only before taking the hammer of nerf would fall and you will get a broken gwf at this time really unplayable and both in pve and pvp )
TRs are the best nodeholders (which is fine) but are also the best 2v1 classes as well as the best 1v1 class (which is not fine).
I thought the devs gave them high dps but traded their stealth of (or at least that was the plan)
It was, but because of some TR hypocrites who were demanding more and more buffs Gentle just made a pvp god.
Not only did they NOT remove perma stealth, they IMPROVED it. My TR can dodge 5 consecutive times, longest and best dodge in the game, each dodge fills my stealth meter for a decent amount through a heroic feat.
I can go perma stealth NO MATTER what path I choose, and even have encounter slots open for burst dmg. Oh, and dont forget the dailies…
Good job ^^
It was, but because of some TR hypocrites who were demanding more and more buffs Gentle just made a pvp god.
Not only did they NOT remove perma stealth, they IMPROVED it. My TR can dodge 5 consecutive times, longest and best dodge in the game, each dodge fills my stealth meter for a decent amount through a heroic feat.
I can go perma stealth NO MATTER what path I choose, and even have encounter slots open for burst dmg. Oh, and dont forget the dailies…
Good job ^^
That is one of my responds to tread but the developers are cutting me of on treads and erase my replies because they know what I'm saying is true:
I'm a 23k gear score PVP build CW with 42k HP, I just been easily kill 3 times (in around 5 to 6 sec) by two 8K stealth TR (in pair) and I couldn’t move (daze) all of the fights. The fight before, an 8K stealth TR took me 36K before I was finally able to kill him (23K CW nearly survive an 8K Stealth TR hello!!!!). And before that a 12k stealth Tr hit me with Dazing Strike follow 5 second later by Smoke bomb and disappeared for around 5 second and come back with Dazing Strike and Smoke Bomb again and while I was daze all the fight, from the beginning, he took of all my 42K HP and killed me. 10K to 16K TR are doing around 39K DPS with Lashing Blade (an encounter!!!!!) that has to be nerf 70% down. Smoke Bomb daze you for 5 second and even if you go out still poisoning you for 29K HP (an encounter!!!!!) it dazing time should be nerf 80% (Dazing Strike also) on players and DPS buy 60%. Just tried Domination again and I was beat 2 time in around 5 to 6 second by an 18k Stealth TR. I couldn’t do anything. I could continue like that for all the GOD MODE 5 TR received. Thank dev. for destroying our game.
It was, but because of some TR hypocrites who were demanding more and more buffs Gentle just made a pvp god.
Not only did they NOT remove perma stealth, they IMPROVED it. My TR can dodge 5 consecutive times, longest and best dodge in the game, each dodge fills my stealth meter for a decent amount through a heroic feat.
I can go perma stealth NO MATTER what path I choose, and even have encounter slots open for burst dmg. Oh, and dont forget the dailies…
Good job ^^
I 100% agree. this is the classic HAMSTER of "no trade off" lots of damage and a hell of a lot of ways to live. Its going to be fail like this for any class till they figure it out. If they are going to give buffs they have to take something away. + offensive power should mean - def. Also the perma cc'ing they have is waaaay better than that of a cw freezing or any other ability. So yea this was such a fail its not even funny.
All of the proposed changes are live already, hence, this thread has outlived its purpose. If you want to further discuss the changes, feel free to do so in the appropriate class sub-forum.
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Comments
this time you have right, cw ignores great part of tenacity, have a great stat that gives control bonus action points control resist and recharge speed, their class artifact gives control resist, their shield gives addiction control resist + tons of DR and now storm fury can tick up to 70k with a single aimed strike on them
i m not asking for nerfs but a cc breaker would be overpowered
Probably the only one that could face a HR, just a metter of time, about who start his rotation first.
now, if you tab shield, you lost the 4th encounter and this could be balancing in a matter of dps, but shield does not really give you a big advantage, since it's calculated about a 10% DR but on a class with low hp, defense and deflect (only 25% damage avoiding).
Modify teleport could be too much, since now, a well timed CW could dodge a lot and move for a good distance (just need a little revise about GWF intimidation)
Great idea. With this Devs can finally let go of their attachment to the Divinity mechanic and reuse it in another form so previous efforts aren't wasted. Cleric then MAY finally get their baseline encounters up to par with the rest of the classes.
Man that should and should not at same time. When player says CW is Weak they are right, but at same time those who says CW is strong are also right. Why, because CW is strong at weak lvl but is weak as high PVP lvl compare to other class.
The main problem of that is the lack of defensive system on CW. ANd that most from two point, 1 the fact that with eye of the storm CW start fight with 6 second critic So depending of your lvl it make a ful lrotate start between 15-25k of damage. behind that you have nothing left before waiting 20 second and 20 second on pvp it plenty of time time kill CW.
So since CW is a distant class it give two thing, 1 you ended to fight a CW with a character that is or low lvl or mainly PVE with max 28-30 K HP and pretty low defense (max 2.5k)and you lie on the floor most of the time because CW strike first. 2 you have a more PVP oriented character (with more HP and more defense ) and Here CW is lost most of the time.
WHen you goes HL PVP the CW doesn't change and you don't get much much survivavibility while your damage doesn't follow (that is mainly due to the fact that CW have all defensive value starting from 0 and defense can be passed by all fighter class due to extra DRI from power or dext or cons).
The last point is that max power of CW come from DOT and with some class mechanasim on mod 5 that can ignore DOT it will give an other problem.
So reducing in a way or an other CW damage may give on low lvl much better chance but will kill on other hand HL PVP CW.
ALso one last funny point due to multi cry of player about CW control, CW that is supposed to have the highest control in the battlefield is now one of the worst due to many specific change done.
So here the dilemma. try to make change that may reduce a little CW damage to make it on same lvl as low character or pve character, but on other hand try to give HL CW more a chance and defensive .
For me the two point on that t orework should be EOS that should not be activate from start and V3 on that was good
But also shield in both tab and no tab should be rework to offer better defense and be more synchro with defense SO when low lvl player it should provide less defense than actually but on HL player it should provide more defense that it actually does. (exemple, non tab shield actually is 50 % full 25% when hit, you can do like that when full you get dev+ RI value and when low only RI value reduce)
So by putting shield value like that low lvl player or pve player will have a weaker shield than actually but on other hand HL PVP player will have a better one
Hi Synfried.
I read your post ,you see the situation from a CW's perspective,which is natural,as i see things as a GF.
I disagree in some things and some clarifications:
1)Defense is provided to CWs by game mechanics.That game mechanic is the 80s range.Giving you more defensive mechanisms than really have,would make a toon unkillable.You have already the highest dps ,the highest CC,3 dodges that in addition provide an immunity frame of nearly 0.5-1 sec each.Immunity frame=in reality DAMAGE IMMUNITY.
In addition,nothing stopping you to add more defence to your char.But you cannot have the whole of the pie and your dog well fed.
A gf/gwf has to select carefully his choises.He cannt block together and do damage at the same time.He has to choose.Same with GWFs.
2)The problem and the animocity of the slow warrior classes against CWs is caused indirectly by deflect.Strange hah?I ll explain.
CWs in high pvp try to cc/dps the HRs.HRs have near to 50% deflect by feats and gear.Add tenacity and CC resist bonuses and you end up vs a nearly uncontrollable toon.So CW community is pushing to aquire more CC.While it helps their odds and their cc duration again HRs in a small margin,it is completely OP vs other low defelct classes.Which are these?DCs GFs ,destro GWFs.
You do not understand in the heat of battle but sometimes you can perma cc a pvp GF.being 2 of CWs?Consider it quaranteed.
But you ll say :common man it is 2 vs 1 ,what do you expect?".The problem here is your range and your huge dps/dot/glyphs.In simple english while 2vs1 in other classes require some time to get into position and the focused toon can put a fight,vs CWs it cannot.He will be killed in 2-4 secs max.Sometimes he will not even see them or see just one of the two.(second stayin in pillar ambushing).
With so little time prequisitive to kill a pvp toon ,Cw combos can do this and annihilate 2 or more enemy toons before the enemy team comes in range.And in current pvp numerically superiority wins.
To put is simple you already have too much dps and cc against certain classes.Your problem is the dificulty to cc the HR.Asking for more makes CC ,makes some classes easy picks for you.
And ask yourself a question.When you are in mid and you see the enemy team coming ,among them a GF..?Which more often you attack first?Just think.
The problem of CWs "lack of control" is in reality the high deflect some classes,mainly HR,can achieve.You are already are overkill against other classes asking for more make you to them completely broken.
You said CWs can only kill low pve toons.I am a modest GF ,close to average, 18,6k gs .45k hp,18% tenacity,46% DR,26% deflect,2000 regen.
In all the games if i do not slot Steel Grace and wear greater elven,i end up killed first ,always by cws.I am focused in every game by the cws in the past 2-3 months.In every game.I don not play domination i play "dom against CWs".Whole games me and them chasing around who will kill first.Tired of that.
What about lower gs GFs?With out Steel Grace feat or elven battle enchantement?They cannot even fight.If focused they are simply dead.From 60-80s range.Do you find that fair?Is it resonable for you?To be killed ,while you did not even reached mid and just die in entagling force and then icy rayed?
Whenever CWs decide by contempt or by luck,to focus on a GF,GF is dead.This is not fair.Same to a lesser extend for destros GWFs.if they are focused ,game over.
Solution is :To "nerf" the deflect stat ,as concerning its ability to reduce stun/cc.And finally CWs no longer to ignore tenacity for CC reasons.This would lead to a balanced pvp,as concerning CC and CC resist ,to my opinion.
Edit:I have nothing against CWs.CWs poor blood first by opening threads against GFs and asking gf nerfs.
Ex:make bull charge into a prone.
Ex:Icy rays should go through block.
Ex:Knight challenge is doing too much damage.
Ex:AoDis doing too much damage.
Ex:GFs have too much stamina.
Ex:Gfs hit too hard.
Ex:Gfs have too much hit points...
^^^
All of these nerf demands against a class with the less players,with Dcs, in the first 50 pages of leaderboard.13 a week ago(some of them frozen alts-derelict reflect glyph builds) i counted.13 in 50 pages.And you think GFs would not retaliate?Common.
the problem by speacking like you are is showing is for most an non understanding of thing.
1 the best ranged class is not CW it's HR in term of range.
When i say CW have absolutly no defense, it's no joke. you say up defense on CW, but any reasonable HR,TR,GWF and GWF will goes more than 35 armor neutra, and to get 35 armor neutro with a CW you need to get more than 4000 point in defense. That mean 0 or 4000 defense it a waste of point against most class. So CW have no choice but to focus more than other on offensive stat.
CW have also an other particularity that no other class have. they have no control immun.
The main difficulty is to come in range of CW and as you said that the only defense that actually a CW have. You speacking of dodge but do you know that CW have 0.5 second of immobility after dodge. we are freezed.
You re saying that when 2 CW control you.. and so what if two GF come on me at same time i'm also dead. i will not be able to control both. (neitheir we actually can control one).
you are saying about DPS, but again you take exemple from mutli player, one control you, an other dps you, you come here and cry CW have control and DPS. on my CW: here my default stats fro pvp on my best spell (withou crit ok but also without counting tenacity or damage resistance left or deflect). 1 ice dagger: the only real damaging spell at 15k, second icy ray between 6 to 10 k depending of your paragon path. rest is 4 k and less. and ho we may have assaillant for 5-6 k and if slotted storm for 3 k when it proc. honestly On my 12 k GWF i already have better dps than that.
the main real difficulty again CW is the flashy start we get from eye of the storm that allows us to start the 6 first second with critic. without ICE dagger ready i have no way to handle a fight again a high. (for your knowledge i got a fresh 55 k hit from a GWF behind my shield and 225 tenacity in first hit).
So yes to resume killing a gf before he caugh us is mainly our only survive way because no defense mechansim and our survivability is under 5 second on a good one if he caugh us.
And last point the value i'm giving is with PVP spec taken, mean i sacrified some pve dps to get those value, if not you can drop 30% damage(that the main cry of some player agaisnt CW that we are supposed to over perform in both pve and pvp, but in reality pve specced we are dead meat in pvp, mostly one shot and with only aoe power stronger but that require seconds to be cast.
ALso one last big problem on CW that never show in test is depending of who we are fighting the spell needed are absolutly not the same. repel is good against GF, icy terrain agaisnt GF, steal time againt rogue, entrengling force against cw and DC, ray of enfeeblement against gwf. and WE canno't stack all at same time depeding of who we are ending against. i take GF config and ended again a rogue, i'm dead meat unable to target him, take rogue config, canno't launch steal time against gf and GWF and HR i will be countered during the time i'm lauching it
Preach it! I have said the same thing over and over again. And it comes back to this. "All" other class with the exception of DC gives up nothing for what it gains. A dc gives up a HAMSTER load of damage for its ability to live and epic heals. Fair in my book. What does the HR,TR,GF,GWF SW (questionable because it cant dodge but ehh it got jesus mode >.>) give up? Answer...NOTHING. Trust me if you gave all the other classes the deflection rating of a cw ....muhahahaha DEATH. Defense helps however its not going to get you through all. Deflection is op and darn near every other class has a lot of it. And the kicker is they don't even have to stat for it......REALLY? So yea I agree with this guy 100% CW if anything should be buffed more.
When your 21.8gs and hitting a tr only to see all hits deflected then get freakin 2 shoted yea...... CW is by no means tanky and if people are going to stack deflect we need to hit harder unless this game is going to come to its senses and nerf the helll out of deflect as its an op advantage that a cw does not have. So hell no CW is not op. The fact that a person can deflect everything is op. Suggestion deflection CD 1 deflect= 5 sec of non deflection. Problem solved because let me tell you no game I have played has ever had this kinda HAMSTER with deflection. Hell only tanking class would have it so .....yea
I agree with almost everything your saying but its like the devs do not understand the system of trade off. lower def/resistance= more dps. Higher= lower dps. The logic here is really simple. The community just qq's but nearly every person here has played other mmos and knows how this go.... The current situation is not right at all. On top of that I have never in my life seen melee have so much ranged.... This is just down right silly. When people say the top ranged class ....they really need to be more specific because if your disabled from a range of 50 and then the person charges you what the hell is ranged really considered as? Ehh like I said your right on track with your post. Just hope it gets heard out.
The worst in that is when those who complain you say them well if CW such a god mod why not simply do one. When CW was in such poor stat in V3, same guys were still complaning again CW (i remember a GF GWF player that was crying after CW and i posted well did you loose against a CW he reply i never lost against A CW but was still complaining.)
AT V3 i started a GWF to specificly do PVP, but i simply change my mind in v4, i simply stop pvp and goes to see time to time how thing turn in pvp, and play both my CW and GWF in PVE. So after i made that resolve i only post when i see some hudge cry or some stupid post of i want some god button on my class (like the first 3 line of clonk sugg, where he mainly ask for a defensive lvl on GWF that is higher than what they had on V3 (at that time a destroyer was as tanky as a GF) and he don't really get what would appens in the class itself with only one paragon class played and also that it would be such overpowered that it would take one week only before taking the hammer of nerf would fall and you will get a broken gwf at this time really unplayable and both in pve and pvp )
I thought the devs gave them high dps but traded their stealth of (or at least that was the plan)
It was, but because of some TR hypocrites who were demanding more and more buffs Gentle just made a pvp god.
Not only did they NOT remove perma stealth, they IMPROVED it. My TR can dodge 5 consecutive times, longest and best dodge in the game, each dodge fills my stealth meter for a decent amount through a heroic feat.
I can go perma stealth NO MATTER what path I choose, and even have encounter slots open for burst dmg. Oh, and dont forget the dailies…
Good job ^^
That is one of my responds to tread but the developers are cutting me of on treads and erase my replies because they know what I'm saying is true:
I'm a 23k gear score PVP build CW with 42k HP, I just been easily kill 3 times (in around 5 to 6 sec) by two 8K stealth TR (in pair) and I couldn’t move (daze) all of the fights. The fight before, an 8K stealth TR took me 36K before I was finally able to kill him (23K CW nearly survive an 8K Stealth TR hello!!!!). And before that a 12k stealth Tr hit me with Dazing Strike follow 5 second later by Smoke bomb and disappeared for around 5 second and come back with Dazing Strike and Smoke Bomb again and while I was daze all the fight, from the beginning, he took of all my 42K HP and killed me. 10K to 16K TR are doing around 39K DPS with Lashing Blade (an encounter!!!!!) that has to be nerf 70% down. Smoke Bomb daze you for 5 second and even if you go out still poisoning you for 29K HP (an encounter!!!!!) it dazing time should be nerf 80% (Dazing Strike also) on players and DPS buy 60%. Just tried Domination again and I was beat 2 time in around 5 to 6 second by an 18k Stealth TR. I couldn’t do anything. I could continue like that for all the GOD MODE 5 TR received. Thank dev. for destroying our game.
/10char.
I 100% agree. this is the classic HAMSTER of "no trade off" lots of damage and a hell of a lot of ways to live. Its going to be fail like this for any class till they figure it out. If they are going to give buffs they have to take something away. + offensive power should mean - def. Also the perma cc'ing they have is waaaay better than that of a cw freezing or any other ability. So yea this was such a fail its not even funny.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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