They need to do something , letting people enter solo like they can now is a bad idea , especially if the encounter layout remains as it is now , if people can enter solo I have no doubt in my mind scumbags will enter and just afk near the campfire until either the encounter fails or the encounter is completed then they will swoop in for the chest .
second that. please make it somehow to allow queue as 25 man pre-made like already said.
Please let us enter as 25 Man Pre-Made/Guild, somehow... That would go a LONG way to making this super duper awesome!
Seconded.
This "raid" is stating to look like a worthless puggy zergfest heroic encounter
0
mutjinninjaMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 93Arc User
edited November 2014
Alright, so fresh off the livestream, here is my feedback
1. Lag. All the lag. I understand you guys (devs) have not done your performance patch yet, but good god, that was game breaking. I was dropping down to 1 fps when things got hairy near a dragon head on absolute minimum settings. I don't know how I survived half the time. Please make sure this isn't another IWD and too laggy to play for the first two weeks.
2. Time is RUNNING OUT! While the fight is intended to be hard, it was almost insultingly punishing with the harsh timers. Not only do the clerics gain their health slowly (which would take up a large portion of the 25 mins you have even if they were left uninterrupted), but fighting 5 heads with tons of HP in 2 minutes? Impossible. I sincerely hope the dev that was hanging with Akro was joking about making it harder because if he didn't notice, they failed the first time and BARELY squeaked by the second time. Adding at least another minute (for 3 mins to send Tiamat back to hell) is absolutely necessary
3. Regenerating heads. A solid idea grounded in logic (still part of tiamat, she's still alive, so are the heads), but in combination with the tiny 2 minute window, the fight becomes ridiculous. People who are not 20K gs and don't have a full instance (the second run without devs was not full for tiamat) will find it impossible to kill more than 3 heads each time. Even if the heads come back at lowered health, they still take a large chunk of that precious 2 minutes to kill. My suggestion is either to let the heads stay dead or, again, extend the timer drastically. It does not need to be 10 minutes. But 3-5 minutes would make our lives soooo much easier while keeping tense difficulty and the pressure on.
4. Do NOT make this fight harder. To the dev that was with Akro, this was a very worrying comment. Your dev infused, hyperpowered group barely cleared it the second time (seconds to spare). If you do not change Tiamat's timer and just up the HP or difficulty (more adds or whatever) this fight WILL be impossible without 20 19K gs people. It's too hard as it is. Think about the pugs and even guilds who do not have super geared members (as most on preview have tricked out characters that they cannot attain on live) who will have the floor wiped with them as the fight is now. If you feel Tiamat is hard enough, please just be more gracious with the timers.
It only really went down to 1FPS (more like 1 every 3 seconds) at the last bit while we were killing the last heads. Atm i think a 16K gs group could do it if they were organised and you could hold 60fps. So maybe to easy wont know for sure until some premade 25's run it.
Devs killed it with a pug group at 1 frame per second without communication.
This is supposed to be RAID DIFFICULTY.
Think about wiping for a month before finally getting a kill as an appropriate difficulty for a GODDESS DRAGON.
Make it MUCH HARDER.
Then let us enter with 25 people so we can put together a communicating raid.
Again.
Make it MUCH HARDER.
I sincerely doubt many players of this game have 24 other people they can get online all at once with voice com to coordinate and beat the raid at the difficulty you suggest. If it took a month to kill Tiamat, most people (sub 20K) would probably just say screw the raid. No one wants to fail again and again for that long. Look at IWD, it's depopulated because most people have given up hope of EVER getting their bracers. For an mmo that's losing people, you don't want stupid hard exclusive (in the excluding sense of the word) content that most of the population will not clear. Cryptic isn't making content for the top 10% of players, they're making it for everyone and it should be passable by everyone (at a certain threshold, say 15k).
I sincerely doubt many players of this game have 24 other people they can get online all at once with voice com to coordinate and beat the raid at the difficulty you suggest. If it took a month to kill Tiamat, most people (sub 20K) would probably just say screw the raid. No one wants to fail again and again for that long. Look at IWD, it's depopulated because most people have given up hope of EVER getting their bracers. For an mmo that's losing people, you don't want stupid hard exclusive (in the excluding sense of the word) content that most of the population will not clear. Cryptic isn't making content for the top 10% of players, they're making it for everyone and it should be passable by everyone (at a certain threshold, say 15k).
The 90% has T2s, CN, T1s, dailies, everything else.
What's left for those looking for a serious challenge?
But OK. I got your point.
Feedback:
Make 2 difficulties:
- pug: normal difficulty, like now
- raid: you need 25 man premade. Better rewards. Much harder.
Please.... PLEASE.... For everything you hold Holy... Make this available for Pre-Made Groups!
I think it is imperative to have the ability to run Tiamat as a Guild. It would be SO flipping awesome! I don't care if I can eventually do it with my eyes closed... I want to be able to take my Guild, and/or people on my friends list, together. 25 of us together would be so amazing.
PLEASE CONSIDER THIS!
0
onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
I sincerely doubt many players of this game have 24 other people they can get online all at once with voice com to coordinate and beat the raid at the difficulty you suggest. If it took a month to kill Tiamat, most people (sub 20K) would probably just say screw the raid. No one wants to fail again and again for that long. Look at IWD, it's depopulated because most people have given up hope of EVER getting their bracers. For an mmo that's losing people, you don't want stupid hard exclusive (in the excluding sense of the word) content that most of the population will not clear. Cryptic isn't making content for the top 10% of players, they're making it for everyone and it should be passable by everyone (at a certain threshold, say 15k).
Not at all. People want something to aim for. CN filled that role pre-Mod1. Make Tiamat super-hard and your players will thank you. 2-3 modules down the line power creep will trivialize Tiamat same as CN, but in the meantime challenging content means valuable rewards for skilled players. Easy content=unrewarding content=RNG content=boring content=what we currently have.
IWD isn't abandoned because it's hard. IWD is empty because open world PvP is a joke, BI gear is both heavily RNG-gated and old to boot, and IWD itself has no lasting impact after completing Module 3's campaign. Why bother going?
Suggestion: Rise of Tiamat
After successfully protecting the Clerics, make players KEEP protecting them throughout weakened Tiamat's manifestation. If the clerics die, Tiamat's insta-kill aura returns and everyone attacking Tiamat's heads dies. Forcing 25 people into 8 groups instead of 5 means Tiamat's heads lose HPs slower, and more groups need to stay on top of their missions.
There's still that bug that ports you back at the entrance of Well of Dragons after entering Tiamat although the timer clearly is already running and the door open/interactable. I think you need at least wait two minutes into the event to get in.
I got T2 boots from the encounter, but they didn't land in my inventory. Guess the same bug we had with other HEs. Rewards show things you don't actually get.
There's still that bug that ports you back at the entrance of Well of Dragons after entering Tiamat although the timer clearly is already running and the door open/interactable. I think you need at least wait two minutes into the event to get in.
I got T2 boots from the encounter, but they didn't land in my inventory. Guess the same bug we had with other HEs. Rewards show things you don't actually get.
This has also happened to me, and really needs to be fixed before live... Thanks!
Neither of the instances I was in today(Different from the dev instances both times) were even remotely close to being able to complete the encounter. It may be that we didn't actually get 25 people, it's hard to count, but it wasn't even close and we got two heads at most. Either coincidentally or not both times it was the ones me and my group were on, a few OP people from Legit and my TR. (Who is only mildly OP on preview)
So, the other thing is, I know they said they haven't done a performance pass yet, but it's nearly unplayable, and what's making it unplayable isn't something performance altering is going to fix, because it happens EVERYWHERE there are a large number of players taking a large amount of damage, and... Guardian Fighters using friggin' Knight's Valour. Gauntlgrym with multi GFs in an area? KV lagfest. Dragon HEs in ToD? Lagfest once the KV activations start going off.
And I don't have a crappy computer, it's an i5 4690K with 8 GB PC1600 RAM and an R9 270X 4GB model. It's not a Bugatti Veyron but it's at least a Mustang, but those mass KV/glyph/etc activations from GFs make it feel like driving a friggin' mid-size 4 cylinder automatic in the mountains, uphill.
I have no idea if the difficulty is appropriate or not because of the GF challenge mode. :P
Oh yes, and the random interval of time before you're actually able to enter the temple without being thrown back to the entrance is maddening. I'm not sure if it's just wonky coding, an instance not having enough room, but whatever it is, if it can't be fixed, at least have it throw you to the TEMPLE entrance, not the WoD entrance? It is infuriating to have to ride back the entire zone sometimes repeatedly.
Problem with this game is that the mobs AI is really really bad and they only have a few different setups. So for the players asking for more complex mecanics, its never going to happen in this game.
The most complex "fight" i have experienced in this game now requires 40k followers on twitter to rerelease. So i really dont think they are aiming for difficulty and complex.
Sound like just another dps race that does not fit into the current state of gear and power creep at all. Probably it would have been a challenge if it was released in beta
This smells of Tequatl in GW2. A supposed raid level boss but in an open map, which prevented pre-formed groups to tackle it as Average Joe joined in and then messed things up either by agroing mobs to the turrets, or taking a turret and refusing to leave it for someone who knew what to do (or worse, AFKed in the turret. There were only six turrets for a 150 player encounter).
Seriously, this is Tequatl all over again. A tough encounter which needs coordination, voice chat.... messed by non pre-formed who join for the loot and sit on the back, taking a raiding spot and not actually helping in any way. Yeah, sure, we can have an AFK timer, but what good will it do if people just twitch their mouse every once in a while as they watch Youtube videos and wait for the loot?
The encounter is hard, but manageable, they beat it in the Livestream today and another group was probably like 10 seconds away as well. And these are the first attempts with full instances really, so it's not like we have to lay out complex battle plans to tackle that thing.
Even if we can't fully premade it, after the impressions today my feeling that this needs a GG-like queue system got even stronger. The timer not working properly is one thing, but even if you get in early, your instance slowly fills up, the fight starts immediately and probably undermanned and you have to sort some things out with the group.
Let's just queue at 0 and 30, get in and let the fight take place at 5-25 and 35-55. Five minutes to wrap it up, repeat.
Can only second on the performance issues. After my game had nearly frozen, I continued with minimum graphic settings.
Wait, is it really true that we dont get to chose who we enter this dungeon with?
At the moment you can make a regular five man party but after that it is indeed purely random who the other twenty players are , get ready for many "why can people afk in the temple of Tiamat" and " why can't we kick afk people in our Tiamat instance" threads .
Considering the Encounter is on a timer even one afk player could wreck a half hours work , the ability to set up 25 man teams or at least have a choice what other five man teams you enter with is essential .
At the moment you can make a regular five man party but after that it is indeed purely random who the other twenty players are , get ready for many "why can people afk in the temple of Tiamat" and " why can't we kick afk people in our Tiamat instance" threads .
Considering the Encounter is on a timer even one afk player could wreck a half hours work , the ability to set up 25 man teams or at least have a choice what other five man teams you enter with is essential .
Oh well that's better ,but does that just mean the encounter restarts every hour or does it actually mean we get a full hour inside to finish the encounter instead of the half hour?
They said it is resetting every half hour on preview to allow more people to run or test it and that it would begin every hour on live but I don't know if that means we get a full hour inside the encounter to beat Tiamat , judging by last night if we do have a full hour inside the encounter it is going to be super easy to do , the half hour time limit gave you a sense of urgency and a chance to run out of time and fail but if that is extended to a hour it will just be too easy.
i like it
-at least no endless stack off 1 or 2 classes
-reminds me on beginings when no one knew what to do and it was way more fun
infact i had more fun failing a run then what pve is today
-you dont realy know if u are going to finish which is great
-way more exiting
-people need to be nicer like it or not
puts higher geared people in same spot as low which is good considering one button push pvp
im sure community will find a way to cheat and abuse but nevermind
I was half asleep and working at the same time, but I'm pretty sure I remember they said something like "it's 30 mins on Preview for testing purposes so everyone can do it, but on Live it will be 1 hour".
One thing for the people that say it was easy based on the livestream. It was on prev where those 25 ppl including myself got a pg over 20k, there were someone with 28k gs. akro was probably the lowest with 17k. we were also working well as a group and we knew what to do, that try failed for maybe 1 second.
Second time i found myself in instance #2 were communication was only a mysterious word floating around avoided by everyone, that attempt was a fail the first 2 minutes and i'm going to tell you that in live this raid will be a nightamre to pug.
A couple of info just because why not
tiamat's heads will require 20M dmg each
for the reward healing counts more than doing dmg
debuffs will make you see crazy numbers, I got a 270k oppressive while another guy got a 260k storm spell proc i've never seen that even on dragons
Comments
second that. please make it somehow to allow queue as 25 man pre-made like already said.
Seconded.
This "raid" is stating to look like a worthless puggy zergfest heroic encounter
1. Lag. All the lag. I understand you guys (devs) have not done your performance patch yet, but good god, that was game breaking. I was dropping down to 1 fps when things got hairy near a dragon head on absolute minimum settings. I don't know how I survived half the time. Please make sure this isn't another IWD and too laggy to play for the first two weeks.
2. Time is RUNNING OUT! While the fight is intended to be hard, it was almost insultingly punishing with the harsh timers. Not only do the clerics gain their health slowly (which would take up a large portion of the 25 mins you have even if they were left uninterrupted), but fighting 5 heads with tons of HP in 2 minutes? Impossible. I sincerely hope the dev that was hanging with Akro was joking about making it harder because if he didn't notice, they failed the first time and BARELY squeaked by the second time. Adding at least another minute (for 3 mins to send Tiamat back to hell) is absolutely necessary
3. Regenerating heads. A solid idea grounded in logic (still part of tiamat, she's still alive, so are the heads), but in combination with the tiny 2 minute window, the fight becomes ridiculous. People who are not 20K gs and don't have a full instance (the second run without devs was not full for tiamat) will find it impossible to kill more than 3 heads each time. Even if the heads come back at lowered health, they still take a large chunk of that precious 2 minutes to kill. My suggestion is either to let the heads stay dead or, again, extend the timer drastically. It does not need to be 10 minutes. But 3-5 minutes would make our lives soooo much easier while keeping tense difficulty and the pressure on.
4. Do NOT make this fight harder. To the dev that was with Akro, this was a very worrying comment. Your dev infused, hyperpowered group barely cleared it the second time (seconds to spare). If you do not change Tiamat's timer and just up the HP or difficulty (more adds or whatever) this fight WILL be impossible without 20 19K gs people. It's too hard as it is. Think about the pugs and even guilds who do not have super geared members (as most on preview have tricked out characters that they cannot attain on live) who will have the floor wiped with them as the fight is now. If you feel Tiamat is hard enough, please just be more gracious with the timers.
This is supposed to be RAID DIFFICULTY.
Think about wiping for a month before finally getting a kill as an appropriate difficulty for a GODDESS DRAGON.
Make it MUCH HARDER.
Then let us enter with 25 people so we can put together a communicating raid.
Again.
Make it MUCH HARDER.
They JUST killed it. A raid with a entry of 10k GS using mostly people with 20k+ and they only JUST won.
At 1 FPS without voicecomm. They should have failed HARD.
I sincerely doubt many players of this game have 24 other people they can get online all at once with voice com to coordinate and beat the raid at the difficulty you suggest. If it took a month to kill Tiamat, most people (sub 20K) would probably just say screw the raid. No one wants to fail again and again for that long. Look at IWD, it's depopulated because most people have given up hope of EVER getting their bracers. For an mmo that's losing people, you don't want stupid hard exclusive (in the excluding sense of the word) content that most of the population will not clear. Cryptic isn't making content for the top 10% of players, they're making it for everyone and it should be passable by everyone (at a certain threshold, say 15k).
The 90% has T2s, CN, T1s, dailies, everything else.
What's left for those looking for a serious challenge?
But OK. I got your point.
Feedback:
Make 2 difficulties:
- pug: normal difficulty, like now
- raid: you need 25 man premade. Better rewards. Much harder.
Please.... PLEASE.... For everything you hold Holy... Make this available for Pre-Made Groups!
I think it is imperative to have the ability to run Tiamat as a Guild. It would be SO flipping awesome! I don't care if I can eventually do it with my eyes closed... I want to be able to take my Guild, and/or people on my friends list, together. 25 of us together would be so amazing.
PLEASE CONSIDER THIS!
Not at all. People want something to aim for. CN filled that role pre-Mod1. Make Tiamat super-hard and your players will thank you. 2-3 modules down the line power creep will trivialize Tiamat same as CN, but in the meantime challenging content means valuable rewards for skilled players. Easy content=unrewarding content=RNG content=boring content=what we currently have.
IWD isn't abandoned because it's hard. IWD is empty because open world PvP is a joke, BI gear is both heavily RNG-gated and old to boot, and IWD itself has no lasting impact after completing Module 3's campaign. Why bother going?
Suggestion: Rise of Tiamat
After successfully protecting the Clerics, make players KEEP protecting them throughout weakened Tiamat's manifestation. If the clerics die, Tiamat's insta-kill aura returns and everyone attacking Tiamat's heads dies. Forcing 25 people into 8 groups instead of 5 means Tiamat's heads lose HPs slower, and more groups need to stay on top of their missions.
I got T2 boots from the encounter, but they didn't land in my inventory. Guess the same bug we had with other HEs. Rewards show things you don't actually get.
So, the other thing is, I know they said they haven't done a performance pass yet, but it's nearly unplayable, and what's making it unplayable isn't something performance altering is going to fix, because it happens EVERYWHERE there are a large number of players taking a large amount of damage, and... Guardian Fighters using friggin' Knight's Valour. Gauntlgrym with multi GFs in an area? KV lagfest. Dragon HEs in ToD? Lagfest once the KV activations start going off.
And I don't have a crappy computer, it's an i5 4690K with 8 GB PC1600 RAM and an R9 270X 4GB model. It's not a Bugatti Veyron but it's at least a Mustang, but those mass KV/glyph/etc activations from GFs make it feel like driving a friggin' mid-size 4 cylinder automatic in the mountains, uphill.
I have no idea if the difficulty is appropriate or not because of the GF challenge mode. :P
Oh yes, and the random interval of time before you're actually able to enter the temple without being thrown back to the entrance is maddening. I'm not sure if it's just wonky coding, an instance not having enough room, but whatever it is, if it can't be fixed, at least have it throw you to the TEMPLE entrance, not the WoD entrance? It is infuriating to have to ride back the entire zone sometimes repeatedly.
The most complex "fight" i have experienced in this game now requires 40k followers on twitter to rerelease. So i really dont think they are aiming for difficulty and complex.
Sound like just another dps race that does not fit into the current state of gear and power creep at all. Probably it would have been a challenge if it was released in beta
Seriously, this is Tequatl all over again. A tough encounter which needs coordination, voice chat.... messed by non pre-formed who join for the loot and sit on the back, taking a raiding spot and not actually helping in any way. Yeah, sure, we can have an AFK timer, but what good will it do if people just twitch their mouse every once in a while as they watch Youtube videos and wait for the loot?
Even if we can't fully premade it, after the impressions today my feeling that this needs a GG-like queue system got even stronger. The timer not working properly is one thing, but even if you get in early, your instance slowly fills up, the fight starts immediately and probably undermanned and you have to sort some things out with the group.
Let's just queue at 0 and 30, get in and let the fight take place at 5-25 and 35-55. Five minutes to wrap it up, repeat.
Can only second on the performance issues. After my game had nearly frozen, I continued with minimum graphic settings.
At the moment you can make a regular five man party but after that it is indeed purely random who the other twenty players are , get ready for many "why can people afk in the temple of Tiamat" and " why can't we kick afk people in our Tiamat instance" threads .
Considering the Encounter is on a timer even one afk player could wreck a half hours work , the ability to set up 25 man teams or at least have a choice what other five man teams you enter with is essential .
They will make the timer 1 hour on Live.
Oh well that's better ,but does that just mean the encounter restarts every hour or does it actually mean we get a full hour inside to finish the encounter instead of the half hour?
did they say that on the livestream?
They said it is resetting every half hour on preview to allow more people to run or test it and that it would begin every hour on live but I don't know if that means we get a full hour inside the encounter to beat Tiamat , judging by last night if we do have a full hour inside the encounter it is going to be super easy to do , the half hour time limit gave you a sense of urgency and a chance to run out of time and fail but if that is extended to a hour it will just be too easy.
-at least no endless stack off 1 or 2 classes
-reminds me on beginings when no one knew what to do and it was way more fun
infact i had more fun failing a run then what pve is today
-you dont realy know if u are going to finish which is great
-way more exiting
-people need to be nicer like it or not
puts higher geared people in same spot as low which is good considering one button push pvp
im sure community will find a way to cheat and abuse but nevermind
I was half asleep and working at the same time, but I'm pretty sure I remember they said something like "it's 30 mins on Preview for testing purposes so everyone can do it, but on Live it will be 1 hour".
Second time i found myself in instance #2 were communication was only a mysterious word floating around avoided by everyone, that attempt was a fail the first 2 minutes and i'm going to tell you that in live this raid will be a nightamre to pug.
A couple of info just because why not
tiamat's heads will require 20M dmg each
for the reward healing counts more than doing dmg
debuffs will make you see crazy numbers, I got a 270k oppressive while another guy got a 260k storm spell proc i've never seen that even on dragons