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In Defense Of Tryanny Of Dragons
mrvincent1959
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 740 Arc User
I have read alot of complaints about this module, but I just wanted to say that I really enjoy it. I am finding it so much better than Sharander and Icewind Dale. I call those two "the bore and the chore".
TOD is really fun and I like the whole Dragon timer thing. Its fun to group up with a bunch of random people and kill the boss. This module reuses maps from the main campaign and that was an added bonus.
I have yet to become bored with this module.
TOD is really fun and I like the whole Dragon timer thing. Its fun to group up with a bunch of random people and kill the boss. This module reuses maps from the main campaign and that was an added bonus.
I have yet to become bored with this module.
twitch.tv/kaligold
Post edited by mrvincent1959 on
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ToD gets boring real fast after about 100-200 dragons killed. More so if you do not get a belt or any expensive item, like draconic boots for a DC. Hopefully ToD:tiamat does not get as daily happy, because then this will get worst then shar in my opinion.
I to agree, not longer after TOD launched is when I joined the game, I enjoy it. I also enjoy the artifact system (not the refining system though, that seriously needs work) the boons are quite alright, I did however find it a big pain in the butt to catch up on all the previous modules sharandar being the absolute worst.
I like the dragon timers but I do think it should be reduced to a 10 minute wait before respawn.
All in all, I'm far too new to the overall scheme of the game to negatively judge it based on it but anyone with half a brain can assess that the boon system will drive away new comers when places like Shar take so long, and as a newer player, multiple characters with the artifacts is next to impossible lol.
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I object to your objection
Also, people have differing opinions. I think MOST people are displeased with the current module, but of course not everyone is going to share that.
If you consider ToD something to do while you are playing the rest of the Game, then it is wonderful.
This is how I play and I am loving it.
I look at it the same way as I do the Rinx Dailies.
I nice little addition, with some decent rewards and no real pressure to do any of it if I don't want to.
If you MUST NEEEEEEDS GRINDERZ EVERYTHINGS NAUWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then ToD is a version of Hell.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
I don't think people have an issue with killing dragons, rather waiting 10 minutes to kill dragons 5x a day.
Let's also not forget 100 secrets and 100 sigils per book. Mod 5 will require 3 books for a boon. That's 300 secrets and 300 sigils. That is beyond absurd.
Current modern day mmos, landscape pve is just filler, ToD is the worst sort of filler, its long, tedious and compared to previous modules VERY ALT unfriendly.
IT really sounds like most of you only play 1 class, try playing 5-6, BEFORE this module , it wasnt hard to get through 2-3 classes in dailies in a hour, then BAM they changed thier entire game mechanic to mostly make that impossible.
Its like having a rug pulled from under you. THERE was nothing in the game before this point to thing they would make this game a 1 class only type of game. That is were most of the complaints are coming from, it was too much for many of us playing multiple classes and AGAIN , there was nothing in the game UP to this point, directing us to think they were changing that.
Mod 5 *might* address most of my issues, if the boon books actually start dropping frequently (drop rate increase is in the notes) enough that grinding them with campaign tokens is a true last resort and not the main means of obtaining them. The new campaign is set up with a centralized hub and allows for saving up some missions to complete in batches, which is a much more alt-friendly environment. Not doing stuff every day doesn't mean you can't make up progress on days when you're up for more... every prior campaign has enabled a high degree of... you know, I don't care if you call it weekend warrioring.
Doing the actual "assist" tasks up to the end and collecting the stuff for the first three ToD boons actually isn't all that bad to tackle a bit at a time, even in weekend warrior mode. It does mean you probably have to do Rothe and Whispering both every day for some of the Assist Zhent tasks though, if trying to not skip doing a 20-hour task some days. But you can often save up enough tokens from more extended gameplay to keep resetting campaign tasks for a couple of days afterwards, even if all you do is log in and reset them. It's progress.
But then you get to the top and you're facing several more days of currency farming for dungeon or skirmish unlocks... ok. And you might want to make a key or two to use in those instances, so that's more of the same currency. And you probably want an artifact weapon... but you might not get one that's actually good for your character, so you need to try again, which means consuming more currency. And at some point in there you've realized that if you want those 4th and 5th boons, you need 200 of each type of campaign token, and none of these other activities is helping you get any closer to that goal.
And that realization is hugely dispiriting when you realize that it's something to be completed with every single character you've been trying to keep current. Because it's been manageable before now. Keeping ToD manageable for all my alts has required accepting that getting them through it would likely take me years. I'm not sure I can justify that in a video game. It's not learning an instrument or a language or saving up for a house... it's just entertainment, or meant to be. It's not even the same as mastering a game so that you can be a competitive top player.
Writing about this way too much. We'll see what the revised drop rates bring.
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I like that this campaign is a go-at-your-own-pace campaign, unlike the others where you had to complete 3 (or 6, or 9) daily quests in order to progress. Here, it's just (a) kill a dragon and (b) one other non-dragon quest. You don't even have to do the Common Cause mini-lair. In that respect, it's VERY alt-friendly because minimum daily progress in the campaign does not take much time at all. But if you assume that "minimum" daily progression is killing all five dragons every day, then yeah I can see how you would not like it. But that is not the minimum. That is the MAXIMUM.
In ToD, by the time you have a quest, you might as well complete it then and there, because you've usually had to travel a long way to pick it up. Efficiency mode appears to entail skipping the lairs and the dragons too unless you stumble into a low timer. You can save up some sigils/secrets and do your assists over a number of days of relative inactivity, but you can't do the opposite, collect a bunch of quests and make it up later. And the further you progress in the campaign, the more stuff you need even for the assist tasks. By the end stretch, your minimum per day, Pointsman, wouldn't actually allow doing an assist task, since that requires 4 sigils. So you're either onto doing that every other day or visiting two zones, and that's provided that you do kill the dragons. You can still skip the lair though.
The other major structural difference is the weekly (Culling, not Portal). Other campaigns have needed a large quantity of a type of currency you could get a little of per day and a larger amount of per week, and that weekly quest has made it possible to make up for not always doing daily quests to some degree, or to make up some progress with it because you had previously run out of that item. Here, the weekly gives you more pages, but once you get that third boon unlocked, big whoop. You'll very likely have all the pages you need long before you've got the other stuff anyway. This currency is not really a limiting factor in the way that the ones paid by the other campaign weeklies are.
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Dread Ring was PERFECT, in my opinion. You could get through it fairly quickly, giving you more time to do things you enjoy doing in the game. That's really important for those of us with less playing time than others.
That being said, I think I like ToD better than IWD as a whole, but my opinion on module preference tends to jump around as I remember various aspects of each one . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Just like this guy (which has some good videos that has been posted here) explain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otAkP5VjIv8
ToD did a 180 and punished people playing multiple characters. It requires at minimum 45min per char if you are lucky enough to get invites from zone for shorter dragon spawns. add to this the ridiculous boon 4 & 5 requirements (and mod 5 is continuing this retardedness) and its easy to see why this is the most hated mod yet.
So no, it has nothing to do with dread ring being too easy. They have all been as easy as dr. ToD is the only aberration.
What? This is only the matter if you aren't doing every quest per day.
It takes me between one to two hours to complete every single quest on my GF for example and this is not all from ToD. Not even close.
I personally hate Dread Ring because of its incredible boring landscape and questdesign.
But I have to admit that, compared to the other Mods, this one can be completed quite easily if you are ready to buy the 2 books.
That is 20$ for each book (considering the current rate & AH price).
You can save yourself many hours of waiting to get the books. Just use your money.
But you can as well go the long route and grind the stuff, making use of the f2p mechanic.
Using the f2p AND maintaining 12 alts @top level ... well, if that would be possible them the game would have failed all the players that do not suffer from uncontrollable Altitis.
Is it a rip off? possibly! You might be able to make 20$ within 2 hours of real work. You would have to grind much longer to get the necessary items to "produce" the books. Or, you might just be kissed by RNG and get the book on our 1st run of LOL. It's like the lockboxes, hard to get, but there is always hope! (IMHO this is where they catch us, create hope and not deliver it so we spend money to satisfy our virtual needs)
As for the Altitis many suffer from, I hope they do not restrict development in any way just because some players feel the need to have every possible class and combination at top level on day 1 of a release. Focus on one or two mains, and when they hit the ceiling grind another 2. I have 11 toons with full Shar&DR, 7 of them with full IWD, 8 of them with access to LoL and SoT. So I think I know what I am talking about when addressing Altitis.
Considering the benefit of the boons, one could say they are the equivalent of an R8 enchantment, meaning Boon #4 adds 200 LS to your stat, which is 10% less than an R8 which costs between 270k and 400k. So it might be more efficient to buy some Enchantments than to buy the books.
So many here remind of Gollum: "We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!"
Devs just need to implement kind of "scroll of teleportation to next dragon", which teleports you to shortest time dragon in next area.
5 of These scrolls and 1-2 mins of waiting would make it playable with as many alts as you want.
These scrolls could also drop as reward for dragon kills or buy-able with useless currencies.
Oh I love fighting dragons,
but I prefer doing it at the end of a dungeon.
Right now the dragons dont really feel like a challenge.
Find populated zone.
Hit once.
Wait 5 seconds.
????
Profit.
No dragon disserves to be treated like that.
They are supposed to be fearsome.
Hello Akromatik. When is your next live stream?
LOL! Ten minutes per character to complete a dungeon and 3 daily quests? Geez, you must be real fast!
Often the length of completion time varied based upon other players sharing kills and some of the dailies being able to be completed much more quickly than others. I'd say the average is closer to 20 minutes per character, especially in IWD where you had to go long distances to get to some quests and some of the mob battles were pretty challenging if you were solo (as well as other players stealing your quest nodes while you were busy killing the mob that was guarding it).
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
And why would you want an R8 enchantment instead of a boon if you could have both? The point of this game is to get your characters stronger. Telling someone to use just one instead of both possibilitys is not exactly the point, i suppose.
Umm, no.
If you only spend 10 mins a day in Sharandar, that means you are giving up the mini-lair, which in mod1's terms represents the major solo questing reward for that mod. Plus you will have to do all three zones to get currency to advance for the final 2 boons.
And the daily quests in IWD absolutely take longer than 10 mins a day, even on my CW.
But if you want to compare apples to apples - sure, you could do only the bare minimum in the mod1-mod3 zones (only do the sparks quest in Sharandar, only do the mini-dungeon in Dread Ring, only do the reputation quest in IWD) and be done in 10 mins per character per day. The equivalent in mod4 is only killing 1 dragon per day. Which might be a little more than 10 mins per character per day, if you are unlucky with a dragon timer. So in that sense, the time required for *minimum daily advancement* in each zone are about the same.
Yet people get their panties in a wad over ToD.
The amount of time is more than 10 minutes per character even at the minimums you mentioned above, if you complete the minimums for all three zones. For example, to complete only the daily sparks quest in Shar requires you to first talk to the lady, go through a portal, then travel to redcap areas and begin killing them to get the required 3 drops. In my experience, you typically need to fight 3-7 sets to get the drops. Then you have to run back to the pool, wave your hand for a few seconds, and talk to the lady again. You then have to run back up the hill to the doorway to get to the next area (DR, IWD, etc.). This means that at best pace, completing only the sparks quest in Shar takes probably 7-8 minutes alone, including all travel time.
Overall, EACH of these bare minimums in Shar, DR, and IWD takes at least 7 minutes per character (including all travel time). This yields 21 minutes per character per day minimum.
This can add up fast if you have multiple characters and have to do the necessary "extra" things like selling items to vendors or on AH, trading AD across characters/alts, leveling artifacts, upgrading enchantments, doing professions on all characters, etc., etc.
For the casual players like me, time runs out quickly just doing maintenance stuff. This is why I liked DR so much - the acquisition of boons was much simpler and faster.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
2) People still arguing over mere minutes. Impatience is lame.
A few minutes can be a lot if you do not have hours of freetime per day. Even more so if you waste a lot of that precious time waiting for a dragon to spawn.
Agreed! Some of us can't dedicate large portions of our waking hours to the game we love, due to work, kids, chores, etc.
Minutes ARE very important to the casual player!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I meant 10 minutes per character per day per zone, not 10 minutes per character per day for all three zones. Sorry for the confusion.