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So what happened to "epic" lostmauth?
diogene0
Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
Okay so I've just done several runs of the epic lostmauth version, and in addition to the scorpions not working as the patchnotes said they would, I noticed several dramatic changes in the final fight. The nerf seems quite steep.
Fireballs prone duration is slightly lower.
Fireballs deal 4 times less damage (from 3500, down to 850 on my DC)
Falling rocks when the boss isn't in the air hit for 4 times less too (from 4-22k, down to 2,5k-7k).
The tail whip didn't change and the laser beam from the eyes stayed the same but environmental damage and prones got a severe nerf. Of course nothing changed, just wizards, SWs and GWFs with me, I didn't change anything on my character and it was really the epic version since I got the same usual junk from the chests.
This fight was a walk in the park already before the update, now, it's even easier. I don't understand? Why? I can't believe someone thought it was required to dumb down a very easy epic dungeon when there's a normal one for starters...
Fireballs prone duration is slightly lower.
Fireballs deal 4 times less damage (from 3500, down to 850 on my DC)
Falling rocks when the boss isn't in the air hit for 4 times less too (from 4-22k, down to 2,5k-7k).
The tail whip didn't change and the laser beam from the eyes stayed the same but environmental damage and prones got a severe nerf. Of course nothing changed, just wizards, SWs and GWFs with me, I didn't change anything on my character and it was really the epic version since I got the same usual junk from the chests.
This fight was a walk in the park already before the update, now, it's even easier. I don't understand? Why? I can't believe someone thought it was required to dumb down a very easy epic dungeon when there's a normal one for starters...
Post edited by diogene0 on
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Hard and difficult dungeons = better rewards and drop rates
Piece of cake dungeons = blue unidentified items and bad drop rates.
You get the idea?
Because nowadays, their motto is to make PVE a joke BUT in order to limit good players from taking advantage of the easy PVE content, they gate the good rewards through RNG.
Casual players win. Hardcore players lose.
you got it wrong, casual players lose cos they only play once a while and since there is no loot for them they hardly got anything, hardcore players on other hand plays the content A LOT more so their chances on getting at least one good item is increased altho I have no idea how many eLoLs/SoTs I have to do to get any belt, the one I have I bought from AH and I found no books as well and I did both maybe hundred times now and killed countless dragons with great success and yet no belt for me
so exactly how do a casual player benefit over hardcore? no drop for anyone :]
MC is 15x more rewarding than LOL.
Last time i checked MC drops alot of stuffs that actually makes doing the run worth it, Frags, weapons, seals just to name a few.
And these things dropped fairly often when MC came out.
Are you arguing the PVE content in this game is unrewarding for most players? Yeah its <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Its a joke and its unrewarding to players. All players suffer to an extent.
I was just making a comparison between casual players and hardcore players. The drop rate for the artifact belts and books that RNG is the main variable in determining which player benefits from running module 4 dungeons/skirmishes. This means that a team of coordinated players who have invested tons of time perfecting their rotations and knowing their class inside out do not get an appropriately scaled reward based on their investment to the game. Casual players on the other hand who barely play the game can win the lottery and have relatively the same chance as getting an artifact belt or boon book drop.
Despite the fact that the investment each player puts into the game is vastly different, the lottery chance for reward is almost the same for both casual and hardcore players.
It isn't really about PVE being "too easy".
It is really about "those stupid 'casuals' (read: bad players) get the same chance at rewards that I, the super-l33t player, does, and that's not right."
No, it's the chain prones that are the most dangerous in LOL.
No it's the lack of challenge. And the counterpart is that getting nice drops comes from mind-numbling farming overly easy and boring content instead of epic fights taking some time, brain cells use, and efforts.
Correct. I think content should be balanced throughout. There should be easy relaxing content, there should be challenging content that rewards appropriately.
Unfortunately, we don't seem to have any of the latter.
Translation: Casual players (whom in your mind are 'bad players') should get bad gear, while you should get the good gear.
As in the case for most MMOs, there are difficult dungeons and raids that provide better loot. Players progress through the game earning better gear and rewards each time but experience more and more difficult content.
I do not think casual players are bad players. Casual players are mere players who do not have the same time/resources/effort invested in the game as other players. If player A has invested more effort into the game and has a greater knowledge-base and progressed further in gear, he should be doing more difficult and rewarding content than player B who barely plays the game.
Look instead of trolling this thread you should just step out and watch. If you don't intend to make efforts to understand what others are saying without caricaturing everything there's no point posting.
No one ever said bad. Appropriate with lesser stats, yes! As a chest rewards. Why would you need top of the notch gear to do easy content anyway, if that's your thing. If you want to brag with +200 or 300 stats without playing harder content then there's the auction house. That's why it's here and that's a fundamental part of the F2P model here.
I respond to him as an opportunity to restate my idea for other forum users to see and hopefully get a good discussion going.
I stopped taking him seriously mind you.
Here's where you can perhaps run into problems with the f2p business model though. Time is often interchangable with money, experience is not. So you can easily end up with people buying their way into content that is too hard for them and getting frustrating as a result. Arguably that's their own fault but from a development perspective it's likely something that cannot be allowed. You don't want your players to get frustrated, least of all the paying ones.
Thanks, that made me smile. Whilst it might not be the case here it does seem to be the attitude of some.
Disagree with this premise. Creating challenging but rewarding content is the big carrot on the stick to entice players to get there (be it investing their time/effort OR investing their money).
Why would anyone pay money to get good gear when endgame PVE is not challenging nor rewarding?
U mean the "LF 18k+ gs CW, GWF, SW for epic XY" for an add fest dungeon, wheres the challenge is to avoid the big mob pack, control them and kill ?
For that, already a few dungeons u can run
And I know what this thread is going to devolve into. About 100 complaints that "we need really super hard PVE content like 29-hour raids in dungeons with 17 bosses and where you get guaranteed awesome loot!!!!"
Let me tell you what will happen if we actually really do get a super-hard dungeon that is non-exploitable: almost no one will do it. MAYBE a few hardy souls who really do genuinely want a challenge will do it legit. Everyone else will attempt to find some way to glitch and exploit it. YOU KNOW THIS as well as I do because you were also around in the mod0/mod1 days when almost no one did the T2 dungeons legit, let alone CN, even though they were *doable* legit even at 9-10k GS. Because players don't really want challenge, they just want quick easy access to loot. The Lostmauth dungeon gives players *exactly what they want*, as demonstrated by their actions. They don't want a super hard fight. They just want the shortest possible path to good loot. The dungeon is short, the fight is hard but not all that hard, and you get better loot, if not with the Draconic gear, then with the jewelry and dragon gems and the very rare books/belts.
That is what Neverwinter players really want. Short, not too hard, and good loot.
This is what you want. Don't make other players your hostages, if they have something to say they will say it.
Now this thread was only about making an excessively easy dungeon even easier. I'm just looking for an honest answer. The only people finding the challenge appropriate seems to be the random queue pugs. Lostmauth is closer to throne of Idris than Valindra's tower or malabog's castle when these dungeons were released. There's something missing from the newer content.
If that's the path the devs intend to take then they could just state it and I'm pretty sure a good 30% of the playerbase would leave the game overnight. Of course that's just a moot argument; they will never say it just like they never share their plans for the game. But the question is legitimate and remains. Malabog's castle and VT were challenging, the rewards were okay for VT, and even though not everyone could finish them these piece of content remained mostly untouched. Lostmauth is clearly on the faceroll side and they make the epic version even more boring. So, once again, why? Why don't they nerf the normal version instead or add T1 level set bonus to infernal gear if they want the guy that just logs in on fridray evening three times a month to enjoy the content?
Because they can? Because it's faster than grinding it by playing? *shrug* I don't really know, it'll vary from player to player.
I can say as a casual player that I've bought all but one and a half of my characters armour sets, not with real money mind you. That was simply because gear is part of character advancement, which is the primary reason for me playing these sort of games. I also didn't want to repeatedly run the group content with no guarantee of reward and high probability of teaming with people I'd prefer not to socialise with, I'll note that this has changed somewhat since I found the legit channel but I've still purchased gear since simply because of lack of time and impatience. I don't care that it makes the game easier because I don't play games for a challenge, they are merely a form of entertainment. I parallel them with watching TV, movies, reading books etc.
Me and my guild will run that, kill bosses legit, post on Youtube, and steal their loot. Even if it takes us 1 month.
Are the eLoL changes really true? Can anyone confirm?
But they are so easy to dodge. Heck you can walk away from them...
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
So everyone should have the same stuff no matter how much time they invest in the game?
This game just breaks all sense of team play and progression.
Please please please please please please
I would put my skills against anything they can design.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Some but not all. For some reason the falling stalactites have a weird lag/radius to them. You can be out of the red and still get sent prone and flying into other <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that will prone you some more or stun. That is just frustrating and a ton of cheese. The devs took the easy way out thinking that stun lock creates a challenging scenario. They probably felt bad and decided to tone it back so some won't insta die in the chain of death.
Let's face it, they could make this as easy as they want, but the RNG sucks, and casual players, won't be able to run it 500 times in a week no matter how easy it is. And 500 times and they still prob won't get the books or the belts.
Most of the people who had the belts, the artifacts, and who got the books for the boons, are rich and just bought them off the AH as soon as they were available--even now people are just buying the stuff instead of running elol or the skirmish, if they have the AD. Casual players will never have that kind of AD...unless of course they have some AD leftover from some other ...things.
I never so far saw "lf1m GF < 13k GS" in the lfg channel (we are not talking about a minority of nerds that found their way to legit)
Are there are people out there that really seek a challenge? Yes.
But there are different challenges. For some it is to find a weakness in the PvE or PvP algorithms, make a screenshot or vid about it and brag about how cool your DC or CW is.
And that everyone has too much power, dungeons are easy and nerf all. You do spec for easy runs, get your (back then) 15k friends and exploit a dungeon in a legal way and then decide that no one should be able to do so.