God forbid someone with a life that is NOT gaming get a chance to compete in a game!!
Everyone has a chance to compete. You can either invest time and/or money to compete. Either way, you have to invest something into the game to progress through higher challenges but better rewards.
God forbid Cryptic makes PVE content that isn't a complete joke nowadays.
Because they can? Because it's faster than grinding it by playing? *shrug* I don't really know, it'll vary from player to player.
I made that comment in response to your notion that people won't pay up in the first place if there was loot progression such as one I desired. So now you just made my argument for me, thanks.
People will pay for gear in the loot progression that I and many players here have suggested.
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luxarkMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Casual players with a ton of luck win, yes.
As a "real" casual i can tell you, its pretty sad if you can only run maybe one or two dungeons a week just to get a bunch of useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
What I am really objecting to is rashy's sneers that casual players get the same access as him to good loot. (That isn't really true, but that is his view of it anyway.) As if only the elite clique of l33t players are entitled to good loot, while everyone else should be content with crumbs. After all, the 'casuals' only NEED the subpar gear to do their E-Z Mode content anyway, right? (not like the hardcore players NEED their uber powerful gear either, but whatevs.) I find this smug elitism to be offputting and insulting, frankly.
should a drunk who does nothing but sits at home and beats his wife earn as much as a doctor/engineer/CEO ?
yes the 1337 folk are entitled to best stuff and challenging content, while for casuals there should be(or is in the case of NWO) easier content and gear thats a bit worse
Paladin Master Race
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Despite the fact that the investment each player puts into the game is vastly different, the lottery chance for reward is almost the same for both casual and hardcore players.
No that is where you misinterpret RNG. A player that does say, eSoT, 50 times a day compared to one that does it 5 times a day, has 45 times more of a chance to get a book/artifact belt by pure virtue of the fact that he is running more then the other one. Droprate stays at 0.01%, that doesn't change, but you have that chance every time you run it which betters your chance to get something.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
No that is where you misinterpret RNG. A player that does say, eSoT, 50 times a day compared to one that does it 5 times a day, has 45 times more of a chance to get a book/artifact belt by pure virtue of the fact that he is running more then the other one. Droprate stays at 0.01%, that doesn't change, but you have that chance every time you run it which betters your chance to get something.
".01% drop rate" -> 1% drop rate.
A player that does say, eSoT,50 times a day compared to one that does it 5 times a day, has 45 times more of a chance to get a book/artifact belt by pure virtue of the fact that he is running more then the other one.
In 1 day, the casual player has 1-.99^5 probability of getting at least one drop, and the not-casual player has a 1-.99^50 probability of getting at least one drop. The casual player has a .05 probability and the not-casual player has a .395 probability.
First off I been doing it 3 times a night (and 1 eLoL) and that didn't feel casual, but whatever. What really burns my hide as a statistician is knowing I got this 3% probability of seeing it that night, but if I don't see it, well I am no closer than when I started. It makes you wonder why anyone should bother with eSoT or eLoL.
These missions have the have the same EV in terms of your goal as doing one more quest, but they have way higher variance, and it is pointless to do them other then the fact that they are more fun then doing 1 more quest in a public zone. The only real pay off for the extra organization required for the group content is the extra salvage, but bleh.
In 1 day, the casual player has 1-.99^5 probability of getting at least one drop, and the not-casual player has a 1-.99^50 probability of getting at least one drop. The casual player has a .05 probability and the not-casual player has a .395 probability.
First off I been doing it 3 times a night (and 1 eLoL) and that didn't feel casual, but whatever. What really burns my hide as a statistician is knowing I got this 3% probability of seeing it that night, but if I don't see it, well I am no closer than when I started. It makes you wonder why anyone should bother with eSoT or eLoL.
These missions have the have the same EV in terms of your goal as doing one more quest, but they have way higher variance, and it is pointless to do them other then the fact that they are more fun then doing 1 more quest in a public zone. The only real pay off for the extra organization required for the group content is the extra salvage, but bleh.
This is not true why?
Perfect example i kill 1000 mobs and slot 1 lesser fey blessing i will got 20 enchant or even more .
But i am currently over 1000 E.LOL succesfull run and only got 1 belt of charisma.
So its 0.1%.
Numbers dont lie in long term.
No that is where you misinterpret RNG. A player that does say, eSoT, 50 times a day compared to one that does it 5 times a day, has 45 times more of a chance to get a book/artifact belt by pure virtue of the fact that he is running more then the other one. Droprate stays at 0.01%, that doesn't change, but you have that chance every time you run it which betters your chance to get something.
Again, you misinterpret the amount of investment each person puts in. How can you compare 50 runs to 5 runs? Also, you do realize that the person who put in 50 runs will most likely still not have the belt and be in the same spot as the player who put in 5 runs right? Is that a fair system?
The point is that this game's PVE is not challenging and does not encourage anyone to progress because there is no point. The most difficult PVE content is not difficult at all nor is it rewarding
Again, you misinterpret the amount of investment each person puts in. How can you compare 50 runs to 5 runs? Also, you do realize that the person who put in 50 runs will most likely still not have the belt and be in the same spot as the player who put in 5 runs right? Is that a fair system?
Since when was life fair. How can you compare $5 to $50, hmm? If a person buys 5 lottery tickets they have less chance to win than a person that bought 50 lottery tickets, however, that does not mean that the person that bought 50 should win over the person who bought 5, you just have a greater chance. There is no difference here, 50 runs gives you 50 chances where 5 runs gives you 5 chances.
Also, who do you think is selling the belts on the AH, casuals? No, it's the hardcore players that farm it 20+ times a day like the groups I run with. I have not gotten one belt in over 100 runs, and someone else did on run 3, that's called RNG. Random is random.
Every single dungeon in this game works the exact same, you have a chance at getting your T2 gear in the T2 dungeons, you don't automatically get it just for beating the dungeon.
Either farm your belts, buy them, or ignore them. You're not entitled to anything.
Also, who do you think is selling the belts on the AH, casuals? No, it's the hardcore players that farm it 20+ times a day like the groups I run with. I have not gotten one belt in over 100 runs, and someone else did on run 3, that's called RNG. Random is random.
Every single dungeon in this game works the exact same, you have a chance at getting your T2 gear in the T2 dungeons, you don't automatically get it just for beating the dungeon.
Not necessarily hardcore players sell most of the belts. In case you haven't figured it out, the RNG for the belts is awful that RNG is the biggest determining factor, not the number of times ran.
The thing is, back then, RNG wasn't as big of a factor and within a several dungeon runs, one would usually be able to attain the desired tier 2 gear. Nowadays, RNG is the biggest factor by far and not skill.
Don't know why it is so hard to comprehend this but there you go.
Not necessarily hardcore players sell most of the belts. In case you haven't figured it out, the RNG for the belts is awful that RNG is the biggest determining factor, not the number of times ran.
The thing is, back then, RNG wasn't as big of a factor and within a several dungeon runs, one would usually be able to attain the desired tier 2 gear. Nowadays, RNG is the biggest factor by far and not skill.
Don't know why it is so hard to comprehend this but there you go.
Funny how you can't refute a single thing I said.
Prove that the "hardcores" are selling less than the "casuals"
meanwhile, your magical solution instead of RNG would be what? A guaranteed drop every 100 runs? That no casual is ever going to reach?
RNG is RNG. Accept it.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I run it with no Warlocks and maximum of one CW. I rather have TR, DC and GWF than broken warlocks and wizards. And no GF with BS knights valor either. It's a game, I try to create a challenge where possible. Not inviting broken <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> into the party is a nice easy way of making that happen.
OT: sad if they nerfed stuff, I want more challenge. Also hilarious that the adds in final ambush is still lvl 20. Awkward....
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
No, it's the chain prones that are the most dangerous in LOL.
Are you sure you weren't just grouped with a GF that used Knight's Valor?
As a GF I've never noticed any kind of challenge from this boss, not even the first time I did it on preview server (we "one-shotted" it) and I've yet to wipe on this boss since the release.
Mind you, I pug 99,9% of the time.
The only change I noticed is that now you can block the falling rocks, but apart from that... nothing much. The damage has always been low.
Epic Dread Vault is still the hardest of all. Yet the rewards are so miserable that it's not even worth attempting it, the irony.
Hard core player always win in every MMO games. Cause a hardcore player has at lease 50 account and a hundred characters simultaneously playing them to collect money and loots they create his own party of five to achieve best possible result. Imagine if you have 50 character for 25k AD each day you have 1.25 million AD every day. If you don't have this kind of account don't consider yourself a hard core.
Hard core player always win in every MMO games. Cause a hardcore player has at lease 50 account and a hundred characters simultaneously playing them to collect money and loots they create his own party of five to achieve best possible result. Imagine if you have 50 character for 25k AD each day you have 1.25 million AD every day. If you don't have this kind of account don't consider yourself a hard core.
You really misunderstanding the meaning of MMO hardcore lol.
Hard core player always win in every MMO games. Cause a hardcore player has at lease 50 account and a hundred characters simultaneously playing them to collect money and loots they create his own party of five to achieve best possible result. Imagine if you have 50 character for 25k AD each day you have 1.25 million AD every day. If you don't have this kind of account don't consider yourself a hard core.
*Facepalm*
If anyone else happens to pass by this thread, please read the quote above.
A hardcore MMO player is one that has dedicated a lot of time in perfecting his game, PvE or PvP and competes at the very top of either aspect of the game. That might mean we can have some hardcore PvE player doing Progression Raiding in a game where that thing actually matters (lol) and achieving World First/Realm First/etc. boss kills, developing a reputation for himself.
A hardcore PvPer would again compete in the top brackets and go head to head with the very best in that game, and actually win some if not most of the games.
What you describe is a some type of hardcore farmer/botter/exploiter-ish dude. Takes no skill to do that.
A hardcore MMO player is one that has dedicated a lot of time in perfecting his game, PvE or PvP and competes at the very top of either aspect of the game. That might mean we can have some hardcore PvE player doing Progression Raiding in a game where that thing actually matters (lol) and achieving World First/Realm First/etc. boss kills, developing a reputation for himself.
A hardcore PvPer would again compete in the top brackets and go head to head with the very best in that game, and actually win some if not most of the games.
What you describe is a some type of hardcore farmer/botter/exploiter-ish dude. Takes no skill to do that.
Now I have two meaning of hardcore gaming thank you.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
no, you have the actual definition of hard core gaming.
The definition you had before is for a bot, its done with scripts and doesn't require any human interaction once started.
What do you call someone that plays a game a lot but perhaps isn't so interested in the idea of being 'good' at the game or just isn't 'good' enough to be among the best?
I think there's two valid definitions of casual game, one based on time the other on attitude. So, a casual gamer can be someone that doesn't have a lot of time to play. It could also be someone that has a casual attitude towards gaming, i.e. doesn't take it seriously.
Sorry, off-topic.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited October 2014
Closing this down now as it's drifted off topic and into confrontational labeling of players. Also, there is at least one other similar thread on the original topic.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl PWE Community Moderator
Comments
Everyone has a chance to compete. You can either invest time and/or money to compete. Either way, you have to invest something into the game to progress through higher challenges but better rewards.
God forbid Cryptic makes PVE content that isn't a complete joke nowadays.
I made that comment in response to your notion that people won't pay up in the first place if there was loot progression such as one I desired. So now you just made my argument for me, thanks.
People will pay for gear in the loot progression that I and many players here have suggested.
Casual players with a ton of luck win, yes.
As a "real" casual i can tell you, its pretty sad if you can only run maybe one or two dungeons a week just to get a bunch of useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
should a drunk who does nothing but sits at home and beats his wife earn as much as a doctor/engineer/CEO ?
yes the 1337 folk are entitled to best stuff and challenging content, while for casuals there should be(or is in the case of NWO) easier content and gear thats a bit worse
No that is where you misinterpret RNG. A player that does say, eSoT, 50 times a day compared to one that does it 5 times a day, has 45 times more of a chance to get a book/artifact belt by pure virtue of the fact that he is running more then the other one. Droprate stays at 0.01%, that doesn't change, but you have that chance every time you run it which betters your chance to get something.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
".01% drop rate" -> 1% drop rate.
In 1 day, the casual player has 1-.99^5 probability of getting at least one drop, and the not-casual player has a 1-.99^50 probability of getting at least one drop. The casual player has a .05 probability and the not-casual player has a .395 probability.
First off I been doing it 3 times a night (and 1 eLoL) and that didn't feel casual, but whatever. What really burns my hide as a statistician is knowing I got this 3% probability of seeing it that night, but if I don't see it, well I am no closer than when I started. It makes you wonder why anyone should bother with eSoT or eLoL.
These missions have the have the same EV in terms of your goal as doing one more quest, but they have way higher variance, and it is pointless to do them other then the fact that they are more fun then doing 1 more quest in a public zone. The only real pay off for the extra organization required for the group content is the extra salvage, but bleh.
blind leading the blind up in here
This is not true why?
Perfect example i kill 1000 mobs and slot 1 lesser fey blessing i will got 20 enchant or even more .
But i am currently over 1000 E.LOL succesfull run and only got 1 belt of charisma.
So its 0.1%.
Numbers dont lie in long term.
Again, you misinterpret the amount of investment each person puts in. How can you compare 50 runs to 5 runs? Also, you do realize that the person who put in 50 runs will most likely still not have the belt and be in the same spot as the player who put in 5 runs right? Is that a fair system?
The point is that this game's PVE is not challenging and does not encourage anyone to progress because there is no point. The most difficult PVE content is not difficult at all nor is it rewarding
It pretty easy to tell when someone is talking about something they dont know about!
Do you know what a chain prone is?
"But they are so easy to dodge. Heck you can walk away from them... " Biggest troll post i have ever read on here.
Since when was life fair. How can you compare $5 to $50, hmm? If a person buys 5 lottery tickets they have less chance to win than a person that bought 50 lottery tickets, however, that does not mean that the person that bought 50 should win over the person who bought 5, you just have a greater chance. There is no difference here, 50 runs gives you 50 chances where 5 runs gives you 5 chances.
Also, who do you think is selling the belts on the AH, casuals? No, it's the hardcore players that farm it 20+ times a day like the groups I run with. I have not gotten one belt in over 100 runs, and someone else did on run 3, that's called RNG. Random is random.
Every single dungeon in this game works the exact same, you have a chance at getting your T2 gear in the T2 dungeons, you don't automatically get it just for beating the dungeon.
Either farm your belts, buy them, or ignore them. You're not entitled to anything.
Not necessarily hardcore players sell most of the belts. In case you haven't figured it out, the RNG for the belts is awful that RNG is the biggest determining factor, not the number of times ran.
The thing is, back then, RNG wasn't as big of a factor and within a several dungeon runs, one would usually be able to attain the desired tier 2 gear. Nowadays, RNG is the biggest factor by far and not skill.
Don't know why it is so hard to comprehend this but there you go.
Funny how you can't refute a single thing I said.
Prove that the "hardcores" are selling less than the "casuals"
meanwhile, your magical solution instead of RNG would be what? A guaranteed drop every 100 runs? That no casual is ever going to reach?
RNG is RNG. Accept it.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Maybe that is the problem?!?
I run it with no Warlocks and maximum of one CW. I rather have TR, DC and GWF than broken warlocks and wizards. And no GF with BS knights valor either. It's a game, I try to create a challenge where possible. Not inviting broken <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> into the party is a nice easy way of making that happen.
OT: sad if they nerfed stuff, I want more challenge. Also hilarious that the adds in final ambush is still lvl 20. Awkward....
Are you sure you weren't just grouped with a GF that used Knight's Valor?
As a GF I've never noticed any kind of challenge from this boss, not even the first time I did it on preview server (we "one-shotted" it) and I've yet to wipe on this boss since the release.
Mind you, I pug 99,9% of the time.
The only change I noticed is that now you can block the falling rocks, but apart from that... nothing much. The damage has always been low.
Epic Dread Vault is still the hardest of all. Yet the rewards are so miserable that it's not even worth attempting it, the irony.
Hard core player always win in every MMO games. Cause a hardcore player has at lease 50 account and a hundred characters simultaneously playing them to collect money and loots they create his own party of five to achieve best possible result. Imagine if you have 50 character for 25k AD each day you have 1.25 million AD every day. If you don't have this kind of account don't consider yourself a hard core.
You really misunderstanding the meaning of MMO hardcore lol.
*Facepalm*
If anyone else happens to pass by this thread, please read the quote above.
A hardcore MMO player is one that has dedicated a lot of time in perfecting his game, PvE or PvP and competes at the very top of either aspect of the game. That might mean we can have some hardcore PvE player doing Progression Raiding in a game where that thing actually matters (lol) and achieving World First/Realm First/etc. boss kills, developing a reputation for himself.
A hardcore PvPer would again compete in the top brackets and go head to head with the very best in that game, and actually win some if not most of the games.
What you describe is a some type of hardcore farmer/botter/exploiter-ish dude. Takes no skill to do that.
Now I have two meaning of hardcore gaming thank you.
The definition you had before is for a bot, its done with scripts and doesn't require any human interaction once started.
I think there's two valid definitions of casual game, one based on time the other on attitude. So, a casual gamer can be someone that doesn't have a lot of time to play. It could also be someone that has a casual attitude towards gaming, i.e. doesn't take it seriously.
Sorry, off-topic.
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]