they need to get in range and other classes have to keep distance. Once on of melee classes gets near you and stunlock you you can pretty much do nothing and die well its a compensation for not having ranged attack and what attack are you talking about anyway? if not pvp but pve than increased run speed and CC immunity pretty much make up for dodge same as SW which are clearly fine by what you said and yet have same mechanics in terms of getting away from red zones.
fyi I have all classes cos I am a achievement hunter and completionist and I wanted all class artifacts so all of my characters are lvl 60 with access to ICD
then maybe learn to play ? and in pve i dont see how its hard to keep range from either 1 large slow mob or bunch of mobs who dont move because they are ccd from 100 to 0
i have cw i dont play him because its boring to play such a broken op class
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited October 2014
GF- Not great at dealing damage(NOT great Super Low DPS and after DC&TR rework GF"Conq too will not do any dps", but exceptional def(def capped after 3000 all other class can have the same number any way SW CW HR GWF DC can have bigger dr then GF/deflection Second lowest in the game /high hp Even with CON BELT ALL SLOT HP the difference is minimal 8400 hp more then any other class can have GWF have 1260 more hp then other classes / infinite shield only if u use the the rigth spec and trade for DPS or dr or recovery/ Trade of score=Fair, may could do with a bit more damage in pve.
Side note : CW have the best dr in the game always 25% armor no matter what and can have 60000 hp too and still deal a great dps 3 times better then "conq"GF and he can still controll.
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited October 2014
screenshots of paingiver at end of dungeon easily fabricated, ok? how? Enlighten me on this...
I don't think CW needs to be changed, nor do we need to be nerfed. I think CW is fortunate that game design (tons of little adds) strongly favored them when the game came out. When you look at the new content, CW is not op at all there, if anything, we struggle a bit in ESOT and ELOL. That's fine, i'm happy that other classes get opprotunites to be very useful. Best class for new content? GF. Love it.
Considering that TRs were nerfed into nothingness for over a year, then everyone quit TR, made CW, and we all farmed CN and made tons of AD, to think about a CW complaining about anything is hillarious.
If you are struggling as a CW options are:
1) Your build is terrible
2) You gear (or stat distribution) is terrible
3) You need to LEARN TO PLAY.
Problems 1 and 2 can be solved by reading my guide. I am actually here to help people become good CWs. I see a lot of bad CW in game and I think to myself "how???" so hopefully by publishing my guide i have really improved play
BTW, i'm not satisfied with my "achievements" I have friends who can solo draco on a CW, i haven't done that yet, but i'm determined to do it soon.
Quite honestly, i'm not sure my TR could solo the first ROOM in CN.
then maybe learn to play ? and in pve i dont see how its hard to keep range from either 1 large slow mob or bunch of mobs who dont move because they are ccd from 100 to 0
i have cw i dont play him because its boring to play such a broken op class
how so? it's you who whine about how GWFs are squishy while those I met in dungeons (including my own gwf) doesn't have this problem. That would suggest you should be the one who pick up skill in playing your class
screenshots of paingiver at end of dungeon easily fabricated, ok? how? Enlighten me on this...
two methods just of top of my head, I could probably come up with more
1) you could just use photoshop, images are in so low quality that none would notice (you could either replace whole table with numbers you want or tear away the bottom of the table and replace it with the one you made at the start of the dungeon
2) you could have 4DCs/GFs just to keep adds of you, put debuffs on bosses and heal you so they wouldn't do no damage but make it a piece of cake...
two methods just of top of my head, I could probably come up with more
1) you could just use photoshop, images are in so low quality that none would notice (you could either replace whole table with numbers you want or tear away the bottom of the table and replace it with the one you made at the start of the dungeon
2) you could have 4DCs/GFs just to keep adds of you, put debuffs on bosses and heal you so they wouldn't do no damage but make it a piece of cake...
how so? it's you who whine about how GWFs are squishy while those I met in dungeons (including my own gwf) doesn't have this problem. That would suggest you should be the one who pick up skill in playing your class
so 23.6k~26.5k hp(depending on artifacts) even with 35% dr vs 30~60k+ hits is not squishy for a melee class that doesnt have immunity frames ? i can escape or mitigate the attacks, but i have to work for it while other classes can just roll their face on keyboard because they are not in range for a lot of those attacks
and that hp number is with toughness - 9% hp buff. gwf are forced to go full glass cannon to even try to compete with other classes in damage(ok everybody who knows their class can do more dmg than the average pug person)
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
so 23.6k~26.5k hp(depending on artifacts) even with 35% dr vs 30~60k+ hits is not squishy for a melee class that doesnt have immunity frames ? i can escape or mitigate the attacks, but i have to work for it while other classes can just roll their face on keyboard because they are not in range for a lot of those attacks
and that hp number is with toughness - 9% hp buff. gwf are forced to go full glass cannon to even try to compete with other classes in damage(ok everybody who knows their class can do more dmg than the average pug person)
Well, GWF like yours has less HP and Def than my CW, tends to be really squishy in elol. You should definately have more defensive stats.
Also unstopable is amazing.
Also man, why is this "compete for damage" thing so important? The point isn't to win paingiver, the point is to clear the dungeon. Thinking we have to be on top of the DPS charts induces people to do some dumb things.
Let's not bring him into this, shall we? I remember arguing with him months ago about how he said this was not possible to do as CW, and their damage was bad... I'm seeing now why he stopped posting those statements...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Chemboy is a great CW. Those images are all genuine. Please stop doubting others when you have no reasons to.
that may be so, but
a)I didn't say I don't believe it's possible, I just don't trust any pictures players post on forums that "proves something"
b)it's only boss fight, I wanted to see whole uncut dungeon run mainly to see how many deaths (if any) and how much time it took
c)even if he did solo whole CN that doesn't mean I am wrong. I dare to say most of 20kCW could do the same, also SWs and maybe other class. The point is why. It's time consuming and to prove that you can solo something with 2xthe GS needed on it its just not as great as you think. He certainly know how to play CW, but it's not something exceptional... show me how you solo VT and then we can talk...
I am not sure the mechanics of the last fight allows it. Wouldn't Valindra grasp you when alone, and then you will die without any chance to fight back?
Edit: actually, there's a VERY small chance this can be done, but it's almost fully depending on player luck, instead of skill (as in CN).
Well, GWF like yours has less HP and Def than my CW, tends to be really squishy in elol. You should definately have more defensive stats.
Also unstopable is amazing.
Also man, why is this "compete for damage" thing so important? The point isn't to win paingiver, the point is to clear the dungeon. Thinking we have to be on top of the DPS charts induces people to do some dumb things.
the thing is i cant put more defensive stats cause i wont do any damage then
paingiver is not so important, but what use gwf are to party then, low damage, crappy cc(if u even use frontline), no utility ?
why not take hr/sw if they do much more dmg, or cw that do about same damage(on eLoL/Shores) and keep mobs constantly ccd ?
unstoppable was amazing, now its just cc immunity, same thing ranged classes get for free just by being out of range of most cc, being unstoppable doesnt change anything about you being 1shot by most hard hitting abilities
Paladin Master Race
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited October 2014
GWFs are the consumate generalists - they are good at everything but excell at nothing. Now i understand there are certain builds and gear sets that try to min/max these things, but they often leave you vulnerable.
I see a lot of GWFs who run AoW and offense jewlery, and while sometimes they are good players, in general they are good at dying to scorpions and Garakas. There was a section of my guide about gear efficiency and balance - which these players obviously don't understand.
I have a friend who chooses to run the MC set on his GWF for more balance, he's incredibly effective and still does great DPS.
What's good about GWF though? great mobility and speed, better than almost every classes. More durability than almost all classes, unstopable is great. Certain ones can tank, certain ones can DPS, but the good ones are balanced.
But basically, if you are a nice person and you play well, who cares what class you are? All of them have their uses. I like different group comps. So what if CW stacking is a little faster, it gets tiresome fast.
GWFs are the consumate generalists - they are good at everything but excell at nothing. Now i understand there are certain builds and gear sets that try to min/max these things, but they often leave you vulnerable.
I see a lot of GWFs who run AoW and offense jewlery, and while sometimes they are good players, in general they are good at dying to scorpions and Garakas. There was a section of my guide about gear efficiency and balance - which these players obviously don't understand.
I have a friend who chooses to run the MC set on his GWF for more balance, he's incredibly effective and still does great DPS.
What's good about GWF though? great mobility and speed, better than almost every classes. More durability than almost all classes, unstopable is great. Certain ones can tank, certain ones can DPS, but the good ones are balanced.
But basically, if you are a nice person and you play well, who cares what class you are? All of them have their uses. I like different group comps. So what if CW stacking is a little faster, it gets tiresome fast.
tanking - medicore at best, might as well have the DC kite
gwf cant tank, they can soak damage, without the wtftheywerethinkingabout intimidation we have no way to generate and hold (enough)threat, also our mitigation skill - unstoppable sucks for mitigation, if we go tank we need to take too much damage to pop it,and even quite tanky gwf can get 1shot if unlucky(i have been crit for 50k+ at 40% DR) we dont have real on demand mitigation, sprint is too slow and requires movement
CC - frontline surge and avalance of steel ? soo much cc
DPS - only if we go full glass cannon we get anywhere near sw, cw and hr, wont be surprised if dc will do more dps in mod5, havent seen how mod 5 tr works in dungeons, i can do more damage than about anybody i get in pugs, but gwf has to work harder than other classes for it
utility - lol
and there really is no use for balanced gwf, tank - get gf, dps get hr/sw/cw, there is no logical reason to take one
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited October 2014
but that really is the class design. They are designed to be good at all things and great at none of them.
I just hate discussions about class balance, nerfing, buffing, etc. They never resolve anything except allow people to vehemently defend their favorite class . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I just hate discussions about class balance, nerfing, buffing, etc. They never resolve anything except allow people to vehemently defend their favorite class . . .
Sorry. Just had to express myself . . .
You hush. I'm telling you the Druid is OP, especially the Leaf-Blower encounter against the Slop Troll and that ST's Celestial Flatulence of the Divine is OP against Every. Other. Class. These threads are needed. Okay, well maybe those aren't in game, yet. But I *ALREADY KNOW IT*. Just because!
you hush. I'm telling you the druid is op, especially the leaf-blower encounter against the slop troll and that st's celestial flatulence of the divine is op against every. Other. Class. These threads are needed. Okay, well maybe those aren't in game, yet. But i *already know it*. Just because!
omg! Druid op! Must nerf! Nnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrfffffffffff!!!!!!!!
You hush. I'm telling you the Druid is OP, especially the Leaf-Blower encounter against the Slop Troll and that ST's Celestial Flatulence of the Divine is OP against Every. Other. Class. These threads are needed. Okay, well maybe those aren't in game, yet. But I *ALREADY KNOW IT*. Just because!
OMG what a ****. Top tier druids only spam Gaping Maw of the Angry Bee. No one uses Leaf-Blower. Hardcore PvPers represent!
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
OMG what a ****. Top tier druids only spam Gaping Maw of the Angry Bee. No one uses Leaf-Blower. Hardcore PvPers represent!
WTF are you talking about! Leaf-Blower OP! It's like Repel with no target cap! U must use in SP, hulks just fly off edge! Rrrraaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwww......... oops lake of blue fire!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Druid is not over powered. They only made it as a cash grab to get people to spend money leveling a new class. As soon as the money stops it will be nerfed. Don't you people know anything?
I just hate discussions about class balance, nerfing, buffing, etc. They never resolve anything except allow people to vehemently defend their favorite class . . .
Sorry. Just had to express myself . . .
I like to defend balance, not one class or another.
I'm not sorry, I have the right to express myself.
Comments
then maybe learn to play ? and in pve i dont see how its hard to keep range from either 1 large slow mob or bunch of mobs who dont move because they are ccd from 100 to 0
i have cw i dont play him because its boring to play such a broken op class
Side note : CW have the best dr in the game always 25% armor no matter what and can have 60000 hp too and still deal a great dps 3 times better then "conq"GF and he can still controll.
I think you dont have GF and never played 1.
I don't think CW needs to be changed, nor do we need to be nerfed. I think CW is fortunate that game design (tons of little adds) strongly favored them when the game came out. When you look at the new content, CW is not op at all there, if anything, we struggle a bit in ESOT and ELOL. That's fine, i'm happy that other classes get opprotunites to be very useful. Best class for new content? GF. Love it.
Considering that TRs were nerfed into nothingness for over a year, then everyone quit TR, made CW, and we all farmed CN and made tons of AD, to think about a CW complaining about anything is hillarious.
If you are struggling as a CW options are:
1) Your build is terrible
2) You gear (or stat distribution) is terrible
3) You need to LEARN TO PLAY.
Problems 1 and 2 can be solved by reading my guide. I am actually here to help people become good CWs. I see a lot of bad CW in game and I think to myself "how???" so hopefully by publishing my guide i have really improved play
BTW, i'm not satisfied with my "achievements" I have friends who can solo draco on a CW, i haven't done that yet, but i'm determined to do it soon.
Quite honestly, i'm not sure my TR could solo the first ROOM in CN.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
how so? it's you who whine about how GWFs are squishy while those I met in dungeons (including my own gwf) doesn't have this problem. That would suggest you should be the one who pick up skill in playing your class
two methods just of top of my head, I could probably come up with more
1) you could just use photoshop, images are in so low quality that none would notice (you could either replace whole table with numbers you want or tear away the bottom of the table and replace it with the one you made at the start of the dungeon
2) you could have 4DCs/GFs just to keep adds of you, put debuffs on bosses and heal you so they wouldn't do no damage but make it a piece of cake...
lol.
Solo Draco CW 1
Solo Draco CW 2
Solo all CN CW
Solo Draco TR PoV, MONTHS AGO
You were saying?
Chemboy is a great CW. Those images are all genuine. Please stop doubting others when you have no reasons to.
+1, thank you.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zzeF2OVzgA&feature=youtu.be
Trust me man, some people can really play.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
so 23.6k~26.5k hp(depending on artifacts) even with 35% dr vs 30~60k+ hits is not squishy for a melee class that doesnt have immunity frames ? i can escape or mitigate the attacks, but i have to work for it while other classes can just roll their face on keyboard because they are not in range for a lot of those attacks
and that hp number is with toughness - 9% hp buff. gwf are forced to go full glass cannon to even try to compete with other classes in damage(ok everybody who knows their class can do more dmg than the average pug person)
Well, GWF like yours has less HP and Def than my CW, tends to be really squishy in elol. You should definately have more defensive stats.
Also unstopable is amazing.
Also man, why is this "compete for damage" thing so important? The point isn't to win paingiver, the point is to clear the dungeon. Thinking we have to be on top of the DPS charts induces people to do some dumb things.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Let's not bring him into this, shall we? I remember arguing with him months ago about how he said this was not possible to do as CW, and their damage was bad... I'm seeing now why he stopped posting those statements...
that may be so, but
a)I didn't say I don't believe it's possible, I just don't trust any pictures players post on forums that "proves something"
b)it's only boss fight, I wanted to see whole uncut dungeon run mainly to see how many deaths (if any) and how much time it took
c)even if he did solo whole CN that doesn't mean I am wrong. I dare to say most of 20kCW could do the same, also SWs and maybe other class. The point is why. It's time consuming and to prove that you can solo something with 2xthe GS needed on it its just not as great as you think. He certainly know how to play CW, but it's not something exceptional... show me how you solo VT and then we can talk...
I seriously doubt that! GS is way overrated nowadays.
I am not sure the mechanics of the last fight allows it. Wouldn't Valindra grasp you when alone, and then you will die without any chance to fight back?
Edit: actually, there's a VERY small chance this can be done, but it's almost fully depending on player luck, instead of skill (as in CN).
I might give it a shot.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
the thing is i cant put more defensive stats cause i wont do any damage then
paingiver is not so important, but what use gwf are to party then, low damage, crappy cc(if u even use frontline), no utility ?
why not take hr/sw if they do much more dmg, or cw that do about same damage(on eLoL/Shores) and keep mobs constantly ccd ?
unstoppable was amazing, now its just cc immunity, same thing ranged classes get for free just by being out of range of most cc, being unstoppable doesnt change anything about you being 1shot by most hard hitting abilities
I see a lot of GWFs who run AoW and offense jewlery, and while sometimes they are good players, in general they are good at dying to scorpions and Garakas. There was a section of my guide about gear efficiency and balance - which these players obviously don't understand.
I have a friend who chooses to run the MC set on his GWF for more balance, he's incredibly effective and still does great DPS.
What's good about GWF though? great mobility and speed, better than almost every classes. More durability than almost all classes, unstopable is great. Certain ones can tank, certain ones can DPS, but the good ones are balanced.
But basically, if you are a nice person and you play well, who cares what class you are? All of them have their uses. I like different group comps. So what if CW stacking is a little faster, it gets tiresome fast.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
tanking - medicore at best, might as well have the DC kite
gwf cant tank, they can soak damage, without the wtftheywerethinkingabout intimidation we have no way to generate and hold (enough)threat, also our mitigation skill - unstoppable sucks for mitigation, if we go tank we need to take too much damage to pop it,and even quite tanky gwf can get 1shot if unlucky(i have been crit for 50k+ at 40% DR) we dont have real on demand mitigation, sprint is too slow and requires movement
CC - frontline surge and avalance of steel ? soo much cc
DPS - only if we go full glass cannon we get anywhere near sw, cw and hr, wont be surprised if dc will do more dps in mod5, havent seen how mod 5 tr works in dungeons, i can do more damage than about anybody i get in pugs, but gwf has to work harder than other classes for it
utility - lol
and there really is no use for balanced gwf, tank - get gf, dps get hr/sw/cw, there is no logical reason to take one
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
aka they designed the class to suck at everything
lol XD that's not what i meant...
I must admit personally, GWF is my least favorite class though. I just run in and swing big sword. Hit things with sword. Me Gwf, Rawr.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Sorry. Just had to express myself . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
You hush. I'm telling you the Druid is OP, especially the Leaf-Blower encounter against the Slop Troll and that ST's Celestial Flatulence of the Divine is OP against Every. Other. Class. These threads are needed. Okay, well maybe those aren't in game, yet. But I *ALREADY KNOW IT*. Just because!
omg! Druid op! Must nerf! Nnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrfffffffffff!!!!!!!!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
OMG what a ****. Top tier druids only spam Gaping Maw of the Angry Bee. No one uses Leaf-Blower. Hardcore PvPers represent!
WTF are you talking about! Leaf-Blower OP! It's like Repel with no target cap! U must use in SP, hulks just fly off edge! Rrrraaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwww......... oops lake of blue fire!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
*puts on tinfoil hat*
I like to defend balance, not one class or another.
I'm not sorry, I have the right to express myself.