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Feedback PVE and Life Steal
schweifer1982
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
Life Steal in pve is Too Powerfull Stat .
I tested Dps DC in prev also TR .
After rework hit live (i am sure some of the changes will be toned down) 6 Dps class DC / HR /TR /GWF /CW /SW can do in modarate gear solo t2 dungeons with enugh LS 9-12%.
All of them deal enugh dmg and have zero problem to outheal with LS the incoming dmg from mobs/add or bosses .
So the game is only hard for guardians ? Cuz even a DPS conq in moderate gear cannot outheal the incoming dmg in a long therm ,even if somone(GF) manage to the boss the cc will kill him because he must protect her self with her shild .
When her shild is up he cant gain enugh hp back.(i dont say this is wrong ) But he is not the true tank what shoud be.
GF still Req Healer or 4 more DPS class with enugh 9% ls.
Cuz even CW can live longer in add swarm then GF. (in moderate gear ofc)
So my suggestion is to cap LS to 3% .
So maximum LS stat 2000 eq 3% true LS.
So the point is GF is not needed in T2 healers dont needed in T2 .
If the LS is toned down there is still a good option to gain enugh LS via 5th boon of ToD 3% more LS and the 5th boon of DR x3 LS.
But you must sacrefice some DPS for it .
If the LS will be toned down all T2 will be much harder and healers and tanks will be more essential to PVE .
Also the SW healer will be more velcomed cuz he can still have 11% ls +DR boon+ ToD boon .
(i also suggest if you take my suggestion to revert the changes to SW healer)
I tested Dps DC in prev also TR .
After rework hit live (i am sure some of the changes will be toned down) 6 Dps class DC / HR /TR /GWF /CW /SW can do in modarate gear solo t2 dungeons with enugh LS 9-12%.
All of them deal enugh dmg and have zero problem to outheal with LS the incoming dmg from mobs/add or bosses .
So the game is only hard for guardians ? Cuz even a DPS conq in moderate gear cannot outheal the incoming dmg in a long therm ,even if somone(GF) manage to the boss the cc will kill him because he must protect her self with her shild .
When her shild is up he cant gain enugh hp back.(i dont say this is wrong ) But he is not the true tank what shoud be.
GF still Req Healer or 4 more DPS class with enugh 9% ls.
Cuz even CW can live longer in add swarm then GF. (in moderate gear ofc)
So my suggestion is to cap LS to 3% .
So maximum LS stat 2000 eq 3% true LS.
So the point is GF is not needed in T2 healers dont needed in T2 .
If the LS is toned down there is still a good option to gain enugh LS via 5th boon of ToD 3% more LS and the 5th boon of DR x3 LS.
But you must sacrefice some DPS for it .
If the LS will be toned down all T2 will be much harder and healers and tanks will be more essential to PVE .
Also the SW healer will be more velcomed cuz he can still have 11% ls +DR boon+ ToD boon .
(i also suggest if you take my suggestion to revert the changes to SW healer)
GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
Post edited by schweifer1982 on
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Now 90% of the playerbase are Vampires .
But we dont play Vampire Diaries Online or?
Also in D&D any non living creatures have no life force like : undead/golem .
From them you cannot regain life they are immune to this effect.
So in your option this is good ?
Then shoud i ask for guardians the same DPS outcome as CW have rigth now ? To be fair .
"I will be the first person lol-ing when TRs and DCs will outdps CWs."
Cuz they want to be a King everywhere.
In this GAME 2 things you must have to competent in PVE DPS and LS .
So why is this game are soo easy? Ask your self.
How can you fix it?
Remove the DPS ? I dont think so
Remove the LS ? NO
Town down DPS ? good option but too much work
Town down LS ? Easy work easy fix . IF you read my suggestion then you can see there will be good option to became Lord Dracula.
But then you need to sacrefice some of your DPS.
What huge sacrifices do you make? The more damage you do, the more you heal. Getting 8-10% LS is easy. It's about 1000 points investment, which isn't much of a sacrifice at all.
But I agree with the OP. Lifesteal is way too powerful for the minimal points you need to invest in it.
I would double the amount of points required for the returned LS%. If people had to invest 2500ish points to make LS more viable, it would be a different game.
Content would be harder, and healers/tanks would be much more in demand.
Nah it should just have a cap on how many enemies you can steal life from.
It would definitely make it harder if you only got health from say 5 enemies when you do AoE damage.
As it is , a CW or any class with decent LS and a good AoE can basically stand in one place and blast stuff, and as long as they have enough HP they will live through near anything.
If capped at 5 enemies, then the classes with high AoE damage will be fairly equal to the classes with a lot of single target attacks as far as what they get from lifesteal.
That being said, these classes that survive due to only life steal and DPS are like paper if they get controlled and can't put any damage out. So without lifesteal , what buff would they get in return?
1000 Weapon Damage with 10% Damage gained as Hitpoints = 200 HP returned per hit maximum (remains unlimited proc per second)
Want to heal yourself more? Invest (deep into diminishing returns)
Otherwise, use potions or run with a cleric
Or just don't pull the whole dungeon
also try soloing dragon skirmish with any character and not just the boss. tell me if life-steal saves you from all the damage you are taking. especially the barbarian ambush.....
ps: stop trying to nerf temptation warlocks
Its more powerful in AoE but also very powerful against single target if you have dot + burst damage.
When you get 10k+ hp per hit back, its easy to just stand there and take the hits.
Mod4 content enemies generally 1-2 hit you, so that's not exactly a fair comparison. No amount of lifesteal will save you from getting 1-2 hit, and its a poorly thought out of way to "increase difficulty", as it makes defense/deflect etc useless and its all about stacking more HP so you can survive 3 hits and lifesteal back the rest.
1~2 hit KO attacks(dodgeable not autoattacks) and few strong opponents(might be accompanied with a bunch of trash) is how action mmorpg should work, if u want to tank and spank go play wow or some other outdated game.
Yep all that life steal shouldn't even exist in this game. It could exist only as feat or some power triggering it. But as is now all the time such a huge life steal with dmg cw should have never had. It creates huge problems like that all instances can be done by cw and all other classes are basically useless.
In mod 1 when people were controlling like cw and dealing very weak dmg i was healing all of them by dc then it was worth playing dc. I miss days where full healing spec dc as my dc is were required to finish instances. Now what is in this game doesn't need dc. I can literally run entire instance and talk with whoever on pm cause there is nothing i have to do since i only have to heal occasionally someone who died and revived with soulforge.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
unless the mob is seriously debuffed, i don't see that happening in single target unless it's a warlock. 23% life-steal makes 10-23k self-heals frequent with encounters but goes slow otherwise. and this is only due to endless consumption.
i do play a rogue as main but still i barely have the time to out-heal garakas when i deflect his 1-shots. 10% life-steal + endless consumption is just roughly on par with a deflected hit.
i don't consider tier 1/2 dungeons to even be serious. you can do it without life-steal or a cleric period. it's that easy.
Wrong. Clerics were warmly welcome but not mandatory before lifesteal became the meta. Anyway GFs, SWs, and HRs can provide some kind of support and damage mitigation, which is enough. More than half of the playerbase can play the support role that a lifesteal rework would require. Even CWs could focus more on control. So that kind of argument is invalid.
Lifesteal is what makes facerolling possible even at 1.2x the min GS.
Alright. Go defeat TOS or Mad Dragon or Grey Wolf Den without GF/DC and lifesteal (i.e. no temptlock either) with video.
and clerics who know how to play their class are always welcome, ofc the healbots are not needed but clerics can do much more than fight green bars
I agree with the basic idea that lifesteal is essentially why this is not a D&D game in anything other than name, but then you go into this little rant about how GF are some how the only ones that have problems in PvE dungeons... which makes no sense.
Two words:
Fighter's Recovery
It is OP. It completely invalidates this sentence: "So the game is only hard for guardians ?"
spider requires massive or quick control. i'm not one of those 5 wizard groups or 4 wiz + gwf so no. i concede that.
mad dragon....it's 1 of those dungeons that 99% of all pug groups fail because they don't know class mechanics or team work. it's part of the reason i just skip it and go straight to tier 2 since even spider can be won easier since people usually know how to play by then. the random unavoidable roar + 2 fire pillar death combo doesn't help.
gray wolf final boss and his shadow wolves are pure bs. no nice way of saying it. instant death to those wolves because they hit you the very second they spawned (which is b4 u even notice them).
although i think you misunderstood me. when i said without life-steal or a cleric, i meant interchangeable. granted the rest of the dungeons r doable without both, but i meant without 1 or the other.
There were a few solutions suggested but I sort of feel that for the sake of consistency and future proofing that there needs to be some sort of limit per second of what can be absorbed with lifesteal (with exceptions for powers that have a lifesteal effect and are intended to outperform the traditional effect).
lifesteel is good as it is now it dont feel so useful in elol for example while hp pots helps a lot so if any things needs to change it is hp pots ,but question is do u want to look for team members for more time then playing dungeons because this is how things are working in other mmos where u must have tank/healer in team
if u want balance then lifesteel should be 2times less efective on ranged classes since they are in safe zone since no special trash skills and prones get them
You can buff and debuff.
I talked about moderate geared GF soloing t2.
You drop your guard to spawn FR? DEAD GF in no time
I have run with my 9k GS CW (in gladiator set no weapon enchant no stone) Tos back in beta with 5 % ls and was enugh (no dead ring boon ).
True. 1 good CW can solo first two bosses in CN because of lifesteal this is not normal.
GF - Nope LS should stay the same
Why? Cause you don t play one go play one... Fighter's recovery can t be spammed and GF can t make a full T2 run solo..
DC - depends on the DPS path
If the DPS will remain almost the same, then yes if it becomes useless nope. Something in between still nope same LS DC should be the healer not SW and he should be able to stay alive to heal.
TR - not full tone down, it s their normal way of defense so... or if you do it buff regen and then u get a HR-TR something
1. Skill and expirience. I play CW since open beta. One of my friends wanted the offhand skin from DR skirmish. Another friend joined with his retiered 14k CW (no viable build, he has to reroll all stats). I joined with my pray toon CW, gave him xvim gear, dragon bone weapon and a lightning enchant, 5K GS. Guess who was paingiver, my 5k toon. Right spec, skills and timing for max dps. Thats not bc my CW is OP, even my 18,4k CW gets outdpsed by some HRs, SWs, CWs or even really good TRs (Elol). Fact is, I did more dmg, than another CW with allmost 3xGS, bc I knew what to do when.
2. Outgearing dungeons. It is easier to do a 8.3k GS dungeon with a 18,4k char, bc by the time of creation, it had to be doable with 8.3k. More stats and boons equals more dps, CC, resistance, LS, so it HAS to be easier. Its simple math.
a) Artefacts. Legendary DC artefact= one extra daily every 2 min.
b) Compainons. If you have 5 leg. companions, you can boost your dmg for 20+%. When the dungeons where created you had BIS gear companionswise with one ioun stone/ cat.
c) Weapons. Your base weapon dmg is significantly higher, than a year ago.
All of the above combined with LS give a faceroll expirience in outdated dungeons. And here is a good guess, if you run a BIS char, ALL of the new dungeons, skirmishes etc. will be a faceroll expirience, bc they are build to be a challange for 90% of the playerbase, not for the minmaxers.
I) LS is Ilogic.
II) PvE is easy, but that's not the problem about LS.