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Chem's Comprehensive MoF guide (PvE, Mod4)

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  • pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    In many situations, rimfire smolder is close to 25% and smolder is about 5% for my logs.

    Also points, have you noticed smolder has an unusually high crit%? my rimefire crits 60% or so.

    In my testing I didn't have that high of a crit rate (except for that one test), but the crits from rimefire were all above average. In the 30%-40% range when everything else was in the 25%-30% range.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    it must be because my CW's crit is close to 40%
  • harkinharkin Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Been MoT since module 2 mostly because ive grown to like the dots and just been to lazy to go back to SS.

    Now with Module 4 i went Oppresor (been thaum since mod1) since i've played my CW since before launch for the fact that it supposed to be a controller and not a dpser.
    Sadly as great as this guide is, it still didnt cover the oppressor build.Am i gimping myself for wanting to go controll on a Controll Wizard?

    Sure it seems that going full damage still give you enough controll needed, and right now with the way they reworked all the feat trees i lost so much suvivability and damage going oppressor, i can barely kill anything if there's a big bad in the group that can't be controlled. I go down in 2-3 hits if lucky. What am i doing wrong here? I got CoI on tab, FnF, Icy Terrain (recently swapped to this and its glorious for adds and keeping groups frozen) and EF (Ray of Enf if bosses since EF would be useless), along with Chilling Cloud and SB. Dailies are still Sing (i've always liked it even if its nerfed to hell) and Furious Immolation. I got Orb and CA slotted. Am i going TO much controll and thats the reason im not getting anything good out of it? Built for AP gain and Recovery.

    Sorry for the huge amount of text but im about to shelf my CW that ive enjoyed since beta, beacuse ive never had these issues so severe before mod4.
  • theosymphanytheosymphany Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    harkin,

    If you're not objected to using steal time, it is an excellent control and DPS power. I would replace FtF or EF with it. It procs 3 HV stacks (if you're using High Vizier) and also gives arcane stacks which boost arcane and fire damage.

    If you're dying a lot in module 4 skirmish and dungeon that is sort of working as intended. Players somehow decided they want more control immune, hard hitting one hit kill mobs to make content more challenging so that's what we got. With those mobs, if you want to control them you have to do it from distance, and cast your abilities before they aggro and go into their casting mode (which makes them immune). If you want to control a particular pack (eg white/green dragonfangs) let the group know to let you cast first before they aggro. Also don't use singularity/Furious for immune mobs. Oppressive force is the safer choice.

    The other part is just the dodging. Time your immunity frames and always have a route of escape. Freezing and using steal time can cancel red and give your room to breathe although that doesn't work for immune mobs. Your combination of encounters should still provide decent damage over time. Make sure you have some decent max HP (25k+) and defense (1.5k+) on your stats along with lifesteal to top it up as chem suggested.
    Kaelac Symphony LaggyGamerz Community
    Guild and guide info

    Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
  • harkinharkin Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Cheers for the input, been away from the game between Mod3 and 4 so wasn't sure what and how things work lately. I always had Steal time on my bar since launch. Always tried to play an Arcane Controller which worked fine during mod0 and 1 i guess. Lately ive just grown more dissapointed with everyone going and expecting the CW to top dps instead of "controlling" the fights. Still wish we had gotten Illusionist instead of the odd MoF. I'm somewhat undergeared sadly since im sitting at 13k GS only. Have had lots of problem with this game and finding groups to do dungeons with, and with the broken dungeon finder tool its hasn't been that easy since i turned solo in the game with all my friends growing tired of the game.

    Anyway forgive my ranting. And thanks for the input again.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    harkin wrote: »
    Cheers for the input, been away from the game between Mod3 and 4 so wasn't sure what and how things work lately. I always had Steal time on my bar since launch. Always tried to play an Arcane Controller which worked fine during mod0 and 1 i guess. Lately ive just grown more dissapointed with everyone going and expecting the CW to top dps instead of "controlling" the fights. Still wish we had gotten Illusionist instead of the odd MoF. I'm somewhat undergeared sadly since im sitting at 13k GS only. Have had lots of problem with this game and finding groups to do dungeons with, and with the broken dungeon finder tool its hasn't been that easy since i turned solo in the game with all my friends growing tired of the game.

    Anyway forgive my ranting. And thanks for the input again.

    Hey harkin, if you are doing ESOT skirmish - that place is just hard on CW period. The mobs do tons of damage and are quick, so you'd have to dodge and survive well.

    Most of the mobs are control immune too, so I actually run that skirmish with Opressive and Ice Knife. I also loved sing before nerf and love furrious immolation, but if there are only 2-3 mobs and they are immune, no reason there.

    For the bar i was trying FtF, Conduit, Icy, Steal time on my bar. I love shard but ESOT is just a bad place for shard. The mobs are too diffuse.

    Since most of the mobs are immune, orb is not really a great option. CA, CC, and Swath are all excellent features. I might even try switching them around. My thought is you won't kill enough mobs to make CA useful, so I'd run CC and Swath (assuming your crit chance is decent).

    If there is one mob seperate from the rest, i use my secondary at will (ray of frost) to freeze him.

    Grakas is very tough for CW. I have been running Icy Rays, FtF, RoE, and Chill Strike. Conduit might be a good option as well, but all these spells do comperable damage single target, so I'd see what feels good to you.

    He has a 3 part rotation, the fire breath, the fireball, and dancing flames. if you have a GF/GWF that can hold aggro and not turn him, they should draw the fire breath (easy to dodge) and dancing flames. The fireball is not aggro dependent but instead goes only to those far away. It is easy to dodge but deadly if you touch it.

    Dancing flames has a quick animation, and it is dodgeable, but very difficult. It hurts a ton (40k?). So hopefully someone can hold aggro for you. If he's spinning, it's very very difficult for CW.

    Keep at it man. I like LOL a lot more than SOT, and the rings are simply great.

    I hope that helps.

    I would try legit channel, i like them. Also try to find a good guild that suits your needs. There are a lot out there.

    Best,

    Chem
  • harkinharkin Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Actually i'm more so trying to solo Icewind Dale or fighting groups of them dragon warriors. I just don't have the damage or surviability to make it there for some reason. You'd think as an oppressor id be controlling people left and right, but it takes a few sec for the icy terrain to actually freeze them and by then ive either dodged out of it so they dont stand in it anymore or they have killed me. :P Could be that im undergeared as im not even above 4k power.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Some of the encounters in IWD are pretty formidable. I would be careful to not pull more than you can handle.

    I think if you had control pets and went thaum you would control about as well and do much more damage (this is what I do).

    but without that respec i would just pull little by little. Also many of them have some control immunity or temporary control immunity, so again you have to be careful.
  • jeffmwillsonjeffmwillson Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Does flaming weapon enchant benefit from swath of destruction?
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Does flaming weapon enchant benefit from swath of destruction?

    Not to my knowledge. Swath increases damage against things with smolder, flaming is not smolder, so it shouldn't.

    I haven't tested personally but I am pretty sure.
  • letojarred1letojarred1 Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Not to my knowledge. Swath increases damage against things with smolder, flaming is not smolder, so it shouldn't.

    I haven't tested personally but I am pretty sure.
    I hope it would though :D
    StrawberryCheesecake TR
    BlackberryCheesecake CW
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    CheeseCake House :o
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I hope it would though :D

    Lol, we hope for many things, but often only get a few of them.
  • harkinharkin Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Some of the encounters in IWD are pretty formidable. I would be careful to not pull more than you can handle.

    I think if you had control pets and went thaum you would control about as well and do much more damage (this is what I do).

    but without that respec i would just pull little by little. Also many of them have some control immunity or temporary control immunity, so again you have to be careful.

    Alright, sounds like going away from Oppressor is the best choice at the moment. Can't for the life of me get this feat tree to work for me.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    harkin wrote: »
    Alright, sounds like going away from Oppressor is the best choice at the moment. Can't for the life of me get this feat tree to work for me.

    Think of it like this:

    You have DPS features (sensational) and a control feature (good).

    You have a Control tree (good), a DPS tree (amazing) and a support tree (pretty good)

    Then also you have DPS pets (ok), and control pets (really good)

    So the efficient way is to use DPS features, then use either Thaum or Renegade, and get the pets for extra control. This is because best pet (Wild Hunt) is 7% or so DPS, second best (epic erinyess - if you can get it) is probably 3% DPS. Where as pets are 25% and 15% control - and you get five slots.

    The thaum tree and renegade trees are HUGE boost to damage and our DPS features are HUGE boosts to damage, so it just makes sense to boost control with pets and boot DPS with features and feats.
  • harkinharkin Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Alright, i got blue mage and purple whisp for controll at the moment, and the purple wolf you get from the guardian pack along with a blue erinyess. Maybe i should give Renegade a try again i like Magic Missile.. Can't be worse then going oppressor.
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Think of it like this:

    You have DPS features (sensational) and a control feature (good).

    You have a Control tree (good), a DPS tree (amazing) and a support tree (pretty good)

    Then also you have DPS pets (ok), and control pets (really good)

    So the efficient way is to use DPS features, then use either Thaum or Renegade, and get the pets for extra control. This is because best pet (Wild Hunt) is 7% or so DPS, second best (epic erinyess - if you can get it) is probably 3% DPS. Where as pets are 25% and 15% control - and you get five slots.

    The thaum tree and renegade trees are HUGE boost to damage and our DPS features are HUGE boosts to damage, so it just makes sense to boost control with pets and boot DPS with features and feats.

    Yeah.. it's a shame Controll Wizard get's treated as your regular dps class. I'm all for dps, but when a controll tree isn't even close to beeing better in its specified field then just going all out dps, its a sad day to be a Wizard.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    harkin wrote: »
    Alright, i got blue mage and purple whisp for controll at the moment, and the purple wolf you get from the guardian pack along with a blue erinyess. Maybe i should give Renegade a try again i like Magic Missile.. Can't be worse then going oppressor.



    Yeah.. it's a shame Controll Wizard get's treated as your regular dps class. I'm all for dps, but when a controll tree isn't even close to beeing better in its specified field then just going all out dps, its a sad day to be a Wizard.

    It's just this design is more efficient. We can still control great, but the pets are all we needs.

    I just published a MoF/Renegade Companion, so that's worth reading.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I have a couple of questions for anyone who knows. I can't start my own threads yet, but I've done a lot of reading, though now I see much of that was old information.

    Rimefire:
    --How can you tell on the HUD when it's on/working? I read about a color, but I'm not sure if I'm seeing it (green).

    --What about the Tab key, how does it affect both Fanning the Flame and Conduit of Ice? Which one should go there? I've read about an equal amount of opposing opinions. Is it only if you use Tab, or can I reassign that power to another key for my tool bar and still get whatever better effect Tab gives me (more enemies get hit, I think)?

    Other:
    --Shield. I read it lowers DPS if one uses it, but I can't confirm it. As a solo wizard, it seems good for me to use, but maybe not if it's hurting some stat.

    --Arcane Presence. It really buffs up cold damage, so why does no one seem to like it?

    --Magic Missile. At rank 3 (again) I read that it adds effects with some class power, or maybe it's about the Tab key again?

    --Repel. Says it should be affecting multiple targets, but it only pushes one monster away.

    --The class feature that shocks enemies when you're below 50% health doesn't seem to work at all that I can see.

    Thanks!

    D/D has always been the best of games to play!
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    I have a couple of questions for anyone who knows. I can't start my own threads yet, but I've done a lot of reading, though now I see much of that was old information.
    --snip--
    A lot of what you want is covered in Grimah's Wizards guide http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?385321-Grimah-s-Comprehensive-Wizard-guide (only through mod3), but much still applies.

    I can cover some of what you ask:

    1) Shield, you're looking at giving up encounter slot for it (I will only use it in Epic Lostmouth or Epic Shores of Turen). An encounter is a precious thing (depending on spell, could be 8-20% of your damage output).

    2) Arcane Presence - ok, normally means you use MM, instead of Chilling Cloud. If you are using a Cold based skill list, just stack chill directly (Icy Terrain, Chilling Cloud, Conduit of Ice). Arcane Presence is substantially less effective than Storm Spell, Eye of the Storm, and Evocation.

    3) Magic Missile (aka MM), on the third attack builds 1 arcane stack which increases the damage of arcane based spells (ie not cold based).

    4) Repel only affects multiple targets when in the tab/Mastery slot, and only in a narrow beam in front of you. Many spells have better versions when used in the tab/Mastery slot. Each spells describes the normal and mastery effects.

    5) Storm Fury, even if worked would still be garbage.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    A lot of what you want is covered in Grimah's Wizards guide http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?385321-Grimah-s-Comprehensive-Wizard-guide (only through mod3), but much still applies.

    I can cover some of what you ask:

    1) Shield, you're looking at giving up encounter slot for it (I will only use it in Epic Lostmouth or Epic Shores of Turen). An encounter is a precious thing (depending on spell, could be 8-20% of your damage output).

    2) Arcane Presence - ok, normally means you use MM, instead of Chilling Cloud. If you are using a Cold based skill list, just stack chill directly (Icy Terrain, Chilling Cloud, Conduit of Ice). Arcane Presence is substantially less effective than Storm Spell, Eye of the Storm, and Evocation.

    3) Magic Missile (aka MM), on the third attack builds 1 arcane stack which increases the damage of arcane based spells (ie not cold based).

    4) Repel only affects multiple targets when in the tab/Mastery slot, and only in a narrow beam in front of you. Many spells have better versions when used in the tab/Mastery slot. Each spells describes the normal and mastery effects.

    5) Storm Fury, even if worked would still be garbage.

    So any power that's in the Mastery slot, whether it be "tab" or "q" affects multiple targets only then? Descrips say Arcane Mastery is what does it for many of them.

    I'll see if I've checked that guide yet, though I know the last patch did a lot to the CW class. thanks

    Update: I've been a bit confused on Spell Mastery, now it makes more sense. Darn, though, guess I respect my character now. And I was saving for a faster mount.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Kieranmtorn covered most of your questions.

    Rimfire, it's hard to tell in combat - there is just far too much going on. However, i can tell from the difference between my Mod2 logs (when it was bugged) and my mod 4 logs (when it's not) that it's been fixed. If it was still bugged in the previous fashion, it wouldn't do the amount of damage it does.

    Conduit of ice on Tab vs. Fanning the flames on Tab - seems to me over the course of a run, CoI does twice the damage and it builds chill stacks with every tick. Fanning the flames does not. Therefore it was a simple answer.

    Hope that helps

    Chem
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    So any power that's in the Mastery slot, whether it be "tab" or "q" affects multiple targets only then? Descrips say Arcane Mastery is what does it for many of them.

    That's not quite how it works. Every spell will gain something different from being on Spell Mastery (tab). Some spells will go from Single target to AoE like Chill Strike, Repel, and Entangling Force. Other spells will stay single target but gain damage or charges like Icy Rays and Ray of Enfeeblement. Other spells will gain other effects like Steal Time will grant combat advantage and increase your run speed. You'll have to read the tool tips to see how spells are changed when placed on tab.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Kieranmtorn covered most of your questions.

    Rimfire, it's hard to tell in combat - there is just far too much going on. However, i can tell from the difference between my Mod2 logs (when it was bugged) and my mod 4 logs (when it's not) that it's been fixed. If it was still bugged in the previous fashion, it wouldn't do the amount of damage it does.

    Conduit of ice on Tab vs. Fanning the flames on Tab - seems to me over the course of a run, CoI does twice the damage and it builds chill stacks with every tick. Fanning the flames does not. Therefore it was a simple answer.

    Hope that helps

    Chem

    Thanks. You're right about combat, SO much is going on it's hard to tell what's what, like whether CoI or FtF is better in the SM slot. I guess I'll play around some now that I know what's what much better. Disappointed in Repel for sure, I'll go back to a freeze spell after I respec. It at least gets everyone around me so I can escape getting mobbed.
    I'll have to think on Shield, I like it, but don't want to give up a slot for it when I don't use it as an encounter power but a constant…
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    abaddon523 wrote: »
    That's not quite how it works. Every spell will gain something different from being on Spell Mastery (tab). Some spells will go from Single target to AoE like Chill Strike, Repel, and Entangling Force. Other spells will stay single target but gain damage or charges like Icy Rays and Ray of Enfeeblement. Other spells will gain other effects like Steal Time will grant combat advantage and increase your run speed. You'll have to read the tool tips to see how spells are changed when placed on tab.

    I'll have to play around and see which ones I like best. Just so hard to tell specifics/damage when so much is happening on screen.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    I'll have to play around and see which ones I like best. Just so hard to tell specifics/damage when so much is happening on screen.

    Get Advanced Combat Tracker and download the Neverwinter plug-in. It can run in the background and tell you where all of your damage is coming from.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    abaddon523 wrote: »
    Get Advanced Combat Tracker and download the Neverwinter plug-in. It can run in the background and tell you where all of your damage is coming from.

    Is ACT some in-game thing/where do I find it?

    thanks
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • silence1xsilence1x Member Posts: 1,503 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    Is ACT some in-game thing/where do I find it?

    thanks

    advancedcombattracker.com/
    I aim to misbehave
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    Is ACT some in-game thing/where do I find it?

    thanks

    No, it is a separate program. Once it is installed you can use in-game commands to start and stop logs. Then it will give you a hand-dandy breakdown of all of the combat. When you see people posting graphs of combat damage like in this topic

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?772771-CW-Testing

    that information is from ACT. Instructions on how to get ACT up and running can be found here:

    http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/13-advanced-combat-tracker-neverwinter/
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    abaddon523 wrote: »
    No, it is a separate program. Once it is installed you can use in-game commands to start and stop logs. Then it will give you a hand-dandy breakdown of all of the combat. When you see people posting graphs of combat damage like in this topic

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?772771-CW-Testing

    that information is from ACT. Instructions on how to get ACT up and running can be found here:

    http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/13-advanced-combat-tracker-neverwinter/

    What about enemies/monsters? Is there a listing/sheet somewhere on stats, vulnerabilities, powers and such on them? I know most bosses and elites are immune to Entangling Force, for instance, so I have to have a different set-up for them, but still use EF on single monsters around them, esp. ones trying to attack me.

    Dang, there is so much information to know! One of the reasons I like it so much, haven't touched my console since I started playing online.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    merci silence1x
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    merci silence1x

    It will take a while to set up, but very useful once you do.
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