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Chem's Comprehensive MoF guide (PvE, Mod4)

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  • linkingirl86linkingirl86 Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Hi Chem,

    I really like your guide, do you mind if I add it to mmominds.com????
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    It will take a while to set up, but very useful once you do.

    Hard to believe that there are no bestiary apps like this one. Damage doesn't mean much if monsters and/or groups are immune or resistant somehow.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Hi Chem,

    I really like your guide, do you mind if I add it to mmominds.com????

    Feel free, but remember i will update it here.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    Hard to believe that there are no bestiary apps like this one. Damage doesn't mean much if monsters and/or groups are immune or resistant somehow.

    I misunderstood you - thought you meant ACT. It's very sueful.

    I have no idea a beasteary exists or not. Someone once attempted to list defense values, but since mobs only have armor class and not defense, that was obviosuly wrong.

    You can tell HP from long, for instance draco has 7.5 M, lostmauth has 6.3M, other CN bosses have 1M, etc...

    As for control immunity the unstoppable icon is the yellow light with the green border on the mob.

    There are not elemental resistances in this game afaik, but i always feel weird burning fire archons or freezing rimfire goelms :S.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    UPDATE:

    Added notes about Elvish Resolve and Pseudodragon. Extra movement is always good and I now enjoy these benefits.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    I misunderstood you - thought you meant ACT. It's very sueful.

    I have no idea a beasteary exists or not. Someone once attempted to list defense values, but since mobs only have armor class and not defense, that was obviosuly wrong.

    You can tell HP from long, for instance draco has 7.5 M, lostmauth has 6.3M, other CN bosses have 1M, etc...

    As for control immunity the unstoppable icon is the yellow light with the green border on the mob.

    There are not elemental resistances in this game afaik, but i always feel weird burning fire archons or freezing rimfire goelms :S.

    Sueful? Uh oh, you a lawyer? Dang, you guys are everywhere!! ;)

    On elemental resistances, I get that IMMUNE message-in-damage alert all of the time with my chill/freeze powers. I don't understand it though, as it's only occasionally while other numbers indicate that they ARE taking damage, so they couldn't be immune. Entanglement is resisted all of the time, but that's not really elemental IMO, and it's big bosses and a few elites that can't get strangled, like big monsters.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    Sueful? Uh oh, you a lawyer? Dang, you guys are everywhere!! ;)

    On elemental resistances, I get that IMMUNE message-in-damage alert all of the time with my chill/freeze powers. I don't understand it though, as it's only occasionally while other numbers indicate that they ARE taking damage, so they couldn't be immune. Entanglement is resisted all of the time, but that's not really elemental IMO, and it's big bosses and a few elites that can't get strangled, like big monsters.

    The unstopable icon is a clue - if you see it they are immune.

    Entangle is resisted in a lot of different ways, but eventually you get a feel for it. Often the big mobs aren't so easy to control.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    The unstopable icon is a clue - if you see it they are immune.

    Entangle is resisted in a lot of different ways, but eventually you get a feel for it. Often the big mobs aren't so easy to control.

    Don't know what the 'unstoppable' icon is or looks like.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    Don't know what the 'unstoppable' icon is or looks like.

    Ok, it's that thing that looks like a white star. It is always the first icon on the left under a monster's health bar with a green border.

    Some mobs just seem immune or control resistant. For instance, sing and entangle will lift up driders, but it won't pull driders. Don't ask me why... but that's just how it is.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Ok, it's that thing that looks like a white star. It is always the first icon on the left under a monster's health bar with a green border.

    Some mobs just seem immune or control resistant. For instance, sing and entangle will lift up driders, but it won't pull driders. Don't ask me why... but that's just how it is.

    I've been messing around with it all, changing things around and mixing combos, and I do see some peculiarities for sure. Like chills vs flames, if you go in the wrong order or peripheral hit a chilled/frozen target with flames again, it releases (melts?) them to come and attack. And in the heat of battle, esp. in a party, it's hard to keep of whom's got what going. I see those icons you mention, but there can be so many changing so fast it's easy to get distracted and then suddenly you're surrounded by enemies.

    I can say at this point that the one change I'd like to see more than any other is to have more encounter power slots, such as taking over one of the at-will slots instead. I don't care for MM or CC, and the (circle of flame chargeable) isn't that great either, but I do love RofF for it's freezing power, the only at-will I use quite a bit, so I'd rather have the extra encounter for more ice/chill powers. I'm kind of surprised that there aren't switchable toolbars to instantly access other powers. Changing powers in battle is disastrous too often, but if we had 2 toolbars, we could set one up for regular enemies, and the other for bosses and elites that are immune to some things.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    I've been messing around with it all, changing things around and mixing combos, and I do see some peculiarities for sure. Like chills vs flames, if you go in the wrong order or peripheral hit a chilled/frozen target with flames again, it releases (melts?) them to come and attack. And in the heat of battle, esp. in a party, it's hard to keep of whom's got what going. I see those icons you mention, but there can be so many changing so fast it's easy to get distracted and then suddenly you're surrounded by enemies.

    I can say at this point that the one change I'd like to see more than any other is to have more encounter power slots, such as taking over one of the at-will slots instead. I don't care for MM or CC, and the (circle of flame chargeable) isn't that great either, but I do love RofF for it's freezing power, the only at-will I use quite a bit, so I'd rather have the extra encounter for more ice/chill powers. I'm kind of surprised that there aren't switchable toolbars to instantly access other powers. Changing powers in battle is disastrous too often, but if we had 2 toolbars, we could set one up for regular enemies, and the other for bosses and elites that are immune to some things.

    ok, so what at will you use is based upon playstyle and spec. Chilling cloud is probably best for PvE in most cases - it's more DPS and add chill and procs FPT (if you are thaum)

    What are you seeing is some recent changes they made maybe a month ago. If an enemy is actually frozen - not slowed - they break free and get a temporary immunity to freeze. I believe it's 3 seconds. I think you can build chill stacks but they will not freeze or slow them.

    Of course, during that time, you can stun them or prone them. just not freeze them immediately again.

    I'd also love two bars we could hotkey in. would make me super happy!

    hope that helps,

    Chem
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    ok, so what at will you use is based upon playstyle and spec. Chilling cloud is probably best for PvE in most cases - it's more DPS and add chill and procs FPT (if you are thaum)

    What are you seeing is some recent changes they made maybe a month ago. If an enemy is actually frozen - not slowed - they break free and get a temporary immunity to freeze. I believe it's 3 seconds. I think you can build chill stacks but they will not freeze or slow them.

    Of course, during that time, you can stun them or prone them. just not freeze them immediately again.

    I'd also love two bars we could hotkey in. would make me super happy!

    hope that helps,

    Chem

    CC doesn't impress me much, I don't really like it and I've got so much chill power already. RofF doesn't do much damage, but one on one I just keep them frozen as my minion and I destroy them. In crowds, I first go for and freeze up the baddest monster/leader, then once he's frozen take out some of the little fish esp. if they're attacking me, then go back and refreeze him up.

    I'd much prefer having Shield as an at-will, or one of the cold powers I like, though I have CC there now. I like to switch up with flames, but then it does free them and it does take a couple of seconds to freeze them again, so I try not to free them up, which means very careful use of fire power. Guess that's why Rimefire requires smolder first, then chill, though it doesn't really make sense that it doesn't work the same for good/bad both ways.

    Cheers.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    CC doesn't impress me much, I don't really like it and I've got so much chill power already. RofF doesn't do much damage, but one on one I just keep them frozen as my minion and I destroy them. In crowds, I first go for and freeze up the baddest monster/leader, then once he's frozen take out some of the little fish esp. if they're attacking me, then go back and refreeze him up.

    I'd much prefer having Shield as an at-will, or one of the cold powers I like, though I have CC there now. I like to switch up with flames, but then it does free them and it does take a couple of seconds to freeze them again, so I try not to free them up, which means very careful use of fire power. Guess that's why Rimefire requires smolder first, then chill, though it doesn't really make sense that it doesn't work the same for good/bad both ways.

    Cheers.

    Actually, the use of scorching burst should not unfrezze them - that's the freeze nerf put in last month.

    As for damage, all the at wills have similar damage, maybe RoF is the lowest by a little - but builds chill stacks faster (abbadon did a good test on that).

    Personally i use CC for FPT and chill stacks when my encounters are on cool down, and RoF for that last elite standing to stop him for doing anything dangerous - green dragonfangs and hulks, for example.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Actually, the use of scorching burst should not unfrezze them - that's the freeze nerf put in last month.

    As for damage, all the at wills have similar damage, maybe RoF is the lowest by a little - but builds chill stacks faster (abbadon did a good test on that).

    Personally i use CC for FPT and chill stacks when my encounters are on cool down, and RoF for that last elite standing to stop him for doing anything dangerous - green dragonfangs and hulks, for example.

    Hmm, without it, my enemies stay frozen on RofF non-stop unless I stop hitting them or use fire. I haven't noticed that nerf at all in my games. That's why I love RofF, it just keeps them on ice if used unceasingly till they die.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I swear i saw it but i can't find it >.<

    Now if you RoF something that freezes long enough, you'll notice it break free for a few seconds. I think that's what's happening to you.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    I swear i saw it but i can't find it >.<

    Now if you RoF something that freezes long enough, you'll notice it break free for a few seconds. I think that's what's happening to you.
    It only breaks free for maybe half a second, I tested it thoroughly last night. If I use a 'fire' power (which is weird since it's not fire damage but arcane…), it releases them for 2-3 seconds, and then I must freeze them again.

    BTW, I also remember why I don't like ChillCloud, it doesn't freeze. It says it lessens attack damage for a brief period, and can stack chills, but in and of itself it doesn't freeze any enemies, and that's such a big part of my game: control, as in freezing.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    It only breaks free for maybe half a second, I tested it thoroughly last night. If I use a 'fire' power (which is weird since it's not fire damage but arcane…), it releases them for 2-3 seconds, and then I must freeze them again.

    BTW, I also remember why I don't like ChillCloud, it doesn't freeze. It says it lessens attack damage for a brief period, and can stack chills, but in and of itself it doesn't freeze any enemies, and that's such a big part of my game: control, as in freezing.

    As but chilling cloud does add a stack of chill and proc frozen power transfer - which is great for damage.

    If your only concern is control (and I think you started another thread about this) then you probably should go RoF and go oppressor. the problem is this can really gimp your dps. That's why i suggest thaum or renegade and then using control pets to get the best of both.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    As but chilling cloud does add a stack of chill and proc frozen power transfer - which is great for damage.

    If your only concern is control (and I think you started another thread about this) then you probably should go RoF and go oppressor. the problem is this can really gimp your dps. That's why i suggest thaum or renegade and then using control pets to get the best of both.

    I'm not only concerned about control, DPS is fine as long as I'm not getting bashed. I've gone with the Thauma route because in there there's a good boost to CC, though I like some things in Oppressor and Renegade. I just want all things to work together w/o any wasted points, but I guess the way it's set up you have to toss some points aside to get to higher levels of powers since rank 3 is the highest we can go...for now.

    So, I'll be respect-ing one more time later day, still staying with MofF. Overall, I still think it's more fun.

    Hey, you should know, since no one's answered my thread about it: Are rewards equal despite damage totals in party dungeons and such, like the queues? Or is it highest damage gets better rewards? I believe I read somewhere it equaled out, but it may have just said "all get a share," without specifying if the shares were equal.

    thanks! nice posting with you, it's nice to be respected esp. when still trying to figure things out. I can name some other games where that's not the case, but I won't. ;)
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    I'm not only concerned about control, DPS is fine as long as I'm not getting bashed. I've gone with the Thauma route because in there there's a good boost to CC, though I like some things in Oppressor and Renegade. I just want all things to work together w/o any wasted points, but I guess the way it's set up you have to toss some points aside to get to higher levels of powers since rank 3 is the highest we can go...for now.

    So, I'll be respect-ing one more time later day, still staying with MofF. Overall, I still think it's more fun.

    Hey, you should know, since no one's answered my thread about it: Are rewards equal despite damage totals in party dungeons and such, like the queues? Or is it highest damage gets better rewards? I believe I read somewhere it equaled out, but it may have just said "all get a share," without specifying if the shares were equal.

    thanks! nice posting with you, it's nice to be respected esp. when still trying to figure things out. I can name some other games where that's not the case, but I won't. ;)

    If you read a number of writers I do - say books by Malcom Gladwell, Daniel Kahenman, and Nicholas Nasim Taleb - you'll see that there is great evidence and good evolutionary reason for humans to see patterns when there are no patters. We quite literally create a pattern when there isn't one and are predisposed to do so.

    Many things like our luck in loot rolls, paingivers getting better drops, etc... I think 99% of this is just us being "fooled by randomness." Hence we sometimes see no patterns as patterns and patterns as no patterns.

    Now I know HE evaluate players on some complex method. I heard for DC "heal everything for great success" or "full DPS for great success" You know what I do as DC? I buff everything like normal, no heals, no dps, and I get great success all the time -_-''.

    My thought is just play your best and stay persistent and the drops will come (eventually). I even pulled a rage drake out of a lockbox (sold for 1.75M). Also pulled Inferno and owlbear before. You know how? Open tons of boxes XD XD. With enough persistence the rewards will come.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    If you read a number of writers I do - say books by Malcom Gladwell, Daniel Kahenman, and Nicholas Nasim Taleb - you'll see that there is great evidence and good evolutionary reason for humans to see patterns when there are no patters. We quite literally create a pattern when there isn't one and are predisposed to do so.

    Many things like our luck in loot rolls, paingivers getting better drops, etc... I think 99% of this is just us being "fooled by randomness." Hence we sometimes see no patterns as patterns and patterns as no patterns.

    Now I know HE evaluate players on some complex method. I heard for DC "heal everything for great success" or "full DPS for great success" You know what I do as DC? I buff everything like normal, no heals, no dps, and I get great success all the time -_-''.

    My thought is just play your best and stay persistent and the drops will come (eventually). I even pulled a rage drake out of a lockbox (sold for 1.75M). Also pulled Inferno and owlbear before. You know how? Open tons of boxes XD XD. With enough persistence the rewards will come.

    Man has tunnel-vision plenty of the time, and see things in terms of how they relate to us ourselves. Yes, I'm a bit of a reader, a philosopher, a psychologist and an enthusiastic etymologist (word origins). Just finished a couple of dungeons, and my new builds have bumped up my damage totals, but if I get swarmed it can be trouble. Don't move very fast for one thing.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    You could need more durability. Sometimes being more sturdy will increase your DPS, no decrease it. Test a few things and try it out.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    You could need more durability. Sometimes being more sturdy will increase your DPS, no decrease it. Test a few things and try it out.
    I do, you are correct. My durability is low. That's one reason I liked Shield, until it cost me a spot on the toolbar. Health is good enough and I can afford higher health potions, so I use them.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jerrocko wrote: »
    I do, you are correct. My durability is low. That's one reason I liked Shield, until it cost me a spot on the toolbar. Health is good enough and I can afford higher health potions, so I use them.

    My testing and experience seems to suggest that most CWs will give up only a little offense stats and can get a lot more durability.

    Now also you can DPS and control better if you don't have to dodge that often.

    It's worth trying out, you might perform better.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Icy Rays:
    Effect: Nuke spell that can hit two targets. More damage if you target two different mobs. About the same as chill strike.
    Mastery: Damage increased 50%
    When to use: Single target fights.
    Notes: A great spell that you actually can’t spec into at first (you have to take the other options), but is nice when you need it.



    Steal Time:
    Effect: Hits mobs for five ticks each, each tick applying slow, final tick hits harder and applies stun.
    Mastery: Now creates combat advantage and increases run speed for team.
    When to use: All the time except single target fights.
    Notes: Steal time is incredible, does good damage, has a long stun, and procs all your feats and abilities. On Mastery, it is mostly to mess with your teammates, as it throws off their timing, which is potentially hilarious.

    tumblr_nci2g89SVQ1tj8o3do9_1280.jpg

    Shard of the Endless Avalanche:
    Effect: Summons a big pall of power, which can be pushed (twice). The ball will slam and prone (one target at a time), then finally explode (ten seconds or when you hit two targets at once), which deals additional damage and prones. The target limit on the explosion is 10, not 5, not 15 (testing by me), but can prone more (testing by Carla Valentine).
    Mastery: You can now summon and move the shard wherever you want.
    When to use: Whenever you are fighting enough mobs to make use of the control.
    Notes: The community is down on shard right now, because a recent nerf took most of its damage away. There is a rumor that it only prones 5 targets (obviously wrong). I confirmed the target limit for damage today and I’m trusting the word of my good friend for larger limits - which are often hard to see in dungeons.
    So if you are like me and like to do big pulls - shard is still a lifesaver. Don’t listen to the detractors, this spell is still good.

    tumblr_nclqkzPPVb1tj8o3do3_1280.jpg

    Where's some vid of Icy Rays? I can't figure out/find out how to reload my Preview character updated, so I can't test it out that way.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Some spells don't photograph well. I tried to get a good shot of Icy Rays, but they didn't turn out well.

    Furious immolation also just simply doesn't photograph well either.

    I wanted pictures of everything, but even after many attempts couldn't get one i liked.
  • jerrockojerrocko Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Some spells don't photograph well. I tried to get a good shot of Icy Rays, but they didn't turn out well.

    Furious immolation also just simply doesn't photograph well either.

    I wanted pictures of everything, but even after many attempts couldn't get one i liked.

    Icy Rays aren't even 'rays' at all, ha ha. I don't care for that one much, though the rune looks cool. Doesn't move with them though, and just sits there a bit after they're dead, so I'll pass on Icy "Rays" for now. Rays, ha ha ha.
    Jerrocko,
    Leader of the Packs
  • linkingirl86linkingirl86 Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Feel free, but remember i will update it here.

    Hi Chem,

    I already added your post on mmominds.com,

    If you're register on our website please let me know, so we can give the proper author rights to you.

    That way you can make any changes you wish to do to your post on there.

    Linkin
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    thank you! I obviously have a lot of things to do in game alone, so I will get to that :) thanks a lot.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Ok, registered. Let me know how to claim credit, and thank you.
  • linkingirl86linkingirl86 Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    Ok, registered. Let me know how to claim credit, and thank you.

    Hi,

    Please send me a PM here or in mmominds with you name/nick you've registed
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