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CWs and HRs need PVP nerfs... from the viewpoint of a pugger.
intoxicatedknigh
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 48
now before i get a bunch of hate from the title.....
1. i understand there's been posts on this subject but this is my view and my own angle of opinion
2. I don't want them nerfed to uselessness, i think they can be fun.
3. I believe in balance in pvp because neither i or anyone else should find themselves wanting to reach through the screen or go to an opponents house and literally kill them over a game. trust me I want to sometimes.
Now since my GF got nerfed because of people crying about the perma daily thing which i get trust me i understand.
I feel that besides the shield's being broken.
Cws recovery gain is far too high ,, they are close to perma CCing. some are perma ccing. and rays of Frost needs to have a longer duration to freeze an opponent. From the average and most of your pvp crowd are pugs this has been proven to be an issue in pvp. seriously I let my gaurd down or my shield bugs out on my GF ,, I could be just frozen from full health and by the time its over in rotation constantly cced (I had this happen today) i had no health left by the time i was able to break lose. I mean really is this not BS ?
Now HRs , a whole different ballgame, The combat specs wearing leather Armor , logic tells me they should be semi squishy by default but i ran into a few that ,,, my whole team tries to wear them down and their health never budged then they just go fox shift and boarcharge and its over for the whole bunch pretty much. and even with shield up they go right through it and just eat your HP up.
I would like it where we all have our place and battles not one or another class have this over the top advantage.
with this said the trouble with fixing pvp problems, it causes pve problems so with everything i said i hope theres a middle ground found.
and btw HRs, i do plan on making an HR, but i want it to be a nice balanced toon to pvp with giving myself and my opponents a chance not some bugged build. so dont think I'm hating on them or want them super nerfed.
1. i understand there's been posts on this subject but this is my view and my own angle of opinion
2. I don't want them nerfed to uselessness, i think they can be fun.
3. I believe in balance in pvp because neither i or anyone else should find themselves wanting to reach through the screen or go to an opponents house and literally kill them over a game. trust me I want to sometimes.
Now since my GF got nerfed because of people crying about the perma daily thing which i get trust me i understand.
I feel that besides the shield's being broken.
Cws recovery gain is far too high ,, they are close to perma CCing. some are perma ccing. and rays of Frost needs to have a longer duration to freeze an opponent. From the average and most of your pvp crowd are pugs this has been proven to be an issue in pvp. seriously I let my gaurd down or my shield bugs out on my GF ,, I could be just frozen from full health and by the time its over in rotation constantly cced (I had this happen today) i had no health left by the time i was able to break lose. I mean really is this not BS ?
Now HRs , a whole different ballgame, The combat specs wearing leather Armor , logic tells me they should be semi squishy by default but i ran into a few that ,,, my whole team tries to wear them down and their health never budged then they just go fox shift and boarcharge and its over for the whole bunch pretty much. and even with shield up they go right through it and just eat your HP up.
I would like it where we all have our place and battles not one or another class have this over the top advantage.
with this said the trouble with fixing pvp problems, it causes pve problems so with everything i said i hope theres a middle ground found.
and btw HRs, i do plan on making an HR, but i want it to be a nice balanced toon to pvp with giving myself and my opponents a chance not some bugged build. so dont think I'm hating on them or want them super nerfed.
~Angus BullGod - Swordmaster GWF~
~Vladimar Zul - Fury build SW ~
~Takadump onzcrapper - Iron vangaurd GF~
~Vladimar Zul - Fury build SW ~
~Takadump onzcrapper - Iron vangaurd GF~
Post edited by intoxicatedknigh on
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Comments
But HR's... UGH! Piercing Blade needs TO GO NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After:
- Assailant nerf (almost useless, hits for 2K on geared PvPers)
- Icy Rays nerf
- HRs finding better, tankier builds (fought one the other day, he deflect-tanked 2 critical Ice Knives, misses EACH AND EVERY CC, and beat me by Piercing procs, while ending up full HP... that's some royal BS).
- GFs getting Guard boosted making CWs completely and utterly irrelevant
- GWFs dropping chill, having 50k+ HP with ubertank stats, procs that hit for 10-30K damage... sprinting all over to avoid CC, and going Unstoppable afterwards
... CW is now back to full support mode. I can tell you that without slotting Red Glyphs, you won't be killing much of either of the 4 above classes, at BiS levels of gear&skill... if at all.
It's actually a quite sad situation, and my optimism for the class has pretty much evaporated.
I find any complaints about CWs these days just L2P issues or exaggerations due to gear differences , i.e. 15K GWF with Mod 3 gear and meh spec meets 20K CW with legendaries, loses and rages after.
As it always was, the only class that has a legitimate complaint about CWs is the DC. If you are another class, maybe even a SW, your complaints are not looking good at the moment.
Are you serious? GF has already been nerfed, nobody needs a boost against them. Why are you facing a GF 1v1, to get them off a node? well they should be able to hold the node against you on their own, its one of the few things we can do now, what is so wrong with us having that. You aren't helpless though, you can escape if you choose, while the GF can't escape nearly as fast and needs to hold you off or die.
Dude, just STFU about your poor CW, NOBODY believes that ****.
CW = OP easy mode class.
Stun lock someone and freeze em to death and move on to the next.
So what a couple classes are about even with you now. THATS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!
Not "My CW cant kill everything anymore, these other classes need nerfs."
...boohoo my poor CW.rofl....
No, just irrelevant 1v1 where they can keep facing you the whole time, the second a teammate enters the battle you can flank and they either have to face you and get hit by takedown from a GWF or face the team mate then you can freeze them. This isn't built for 1v1, its a team game, no CW being gods and being able to do everything on their own.
It's not my fault you fight CWs that completely outgear and outsmart you.
Every top CW can confirm exactly what I wrote.
If you are a DC, we can discuss further as your class needs some additional tools to deal with CWs.
If you play other classes, you have to:
- get good
- get geared
- L2P
Obviously, too much to ask from pugs.
CW vs GF was a BALANCED fight before the Guard buff at the very top of skill/gear.
You think I want a CW to win 100%?
You're absolutely wrong.
CW should have a 50%-ish chance to win, given equal odds. Some class advantages are OK if it can be mitigated by skill. At this moment, CW skill cannot mitigate GF Guard, as trying to get behind a GF is suicidal with how hard they hit. You cannot even kite as you once could.
By the way, any class should lose a 1vs2, no exception. The fact that a GF loses it says nothing.
...and I regularly smoke higher geared players in my CW.
Not my fault you don't want to hear how overpowered your class is.
If you can't play anything but, you should maybe STOP telling people to learn to play.
Obviously too much to ask from CW easy mode player with hand over his ears saying "LALALA I CAN"T HEAR YOU LALALA"
Prove it.
Post video of you smoking a single top HR, GF or GWF.
If you lack opponents, you're welcome to message me. I will arrange fights with each of these classes for you, Domination style, no companions etc. I will FRAPS and upload your results. You can bring a witness friend, so everybody will be pleased that things are fair.
You can prove this way that the CW is still a top-end, OP, easy-mode class. And after you prove it, I will present you with a public apology and retract my words.
Deal?
you what to know how to fix this?
Stop whining - nerf everybody else cause I can not kill them with just holding my shield. Second - all you leather armor and CW working as controller logic is wrong. look at D&D first.
Last thing - stop whining cause somebody hurt your but.Please. This is no mean of offence but sad truth about perma crybabies.
CW should have 2 dodges standard and Severe Reaction should be changed to something like: "give an additional 50% Stamina", enabling the CW to spec for 3 dodges. No more of this CW dodges 7 times in a row bull****.
If they do that, I think CW would be just fine in my book.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
So HRs should also have 2 dodges right? HR also should only have 1 cast of disruptive shot to counter CW's nerfed Icy Rays
It is a massive nerf to GF, anyone who uses KV or SoS is getting nerfed even if they didn't use it in the OP build which wasn't that OP if you weren't also using glyphs.
GF's don't get a sprint/dodge mechanic like other classes to escape, we get block, it needs to last long especially if we go all out and spec for it like I did, and also sacrifice an encounter slot to be able to keep it up almost permanently.
As Magiepursie said, prove it. I am someone who has played at the bis level for the entirety of the game, and I can tell you right now, that there is absolutely nothing a CW can do to an equal geared and skilled HR / GF at the bis level. GWF is a much more even fight, but if the CW misses one dodge we are screwed. This is purely from a 1v1 POV.
Where Cws shine at the Bis level in premades is where we can rotate to nodes, and focus someone down whilst supporting a team mate.
Kolevra, Just stop.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I agree with your first response.
I also agree with you telling that person to stop.
I am GF 18,4 gs and Dominion master just before Mod3 and not 4 started.Not a high 20k gs toons but i think i am not undergeared either.Yet if i fall to any mediocre geared Cw in pvp i am in high trouble.Actually....I have better chances against a combat HR than any CW.The reasons for this:
1)You all pretend that in pvp 1vs 1 is isolated.It is not.Cws have a range of 80 feet and your block works in only one direction.With powers activated instantly another cw has just from afar to press entagling force and then just to dodge and continue fighting another.Or a another toon to stun you.That is enough for the cw you are one vs one to begin his cc chain.You are dead.
2)High level CWs are able to proc storm spell and assailant almost all the time.Really.I am bored to read these words on my screen.And to see the effect of storm spell.
3)CWs are not squishy.A pvp based CW can take a lot of hits.If he is facing a non dps Gf the GF will die even if he catches the CW.Cws are far more deadly and slightly less tankier.
4)High level CWs in one vs one instead to stay in range come to mid dinstance .In the moment you start aggravating strike or just after lunging they dodge right behind you.With the AS animation locked to another 0.8-1 sec they cc from the back of you.
5)Most of the damage of Cws come from procs and dots.Your block cannot help you there.
6)Red glyphs Cw do insane damage in seconds.They can afford to make 2 or three mistakes.While as a GF one mistake and you are chained to death.
7)CWs will ambush you from the pillars ,the bridge of the domination maps.As you cannot see them or you arefighting other toons they jump into you and cc chain you.The enemies near you finish you off.
8)If 2 competent CWs are in one team it is nearly impossible to kill them.cause the combined damage and cc far exceeds any other 2 toon combo.Not at thet range anyway.That means that if they have somewhat tanky team8s (HR/GF/GWD/DC) they can focus in every other enemy toon and take that fast and go to another.And quess who is their first priority?GFs cause they are slow and no cc defense apart from a block ,that has to be raised,it lasts only 8 secs and even then you can cc chained from back.
Cws player base is smart and big.Cws ignore 66% of tenacit if you do not know.Not a bug.Officially since tenacity was introduced.That means their powers work full in pvp.Don't hear their whinning.As a GF and i think most of other Gf will agree CWs are now the biggest danger for any GF.
In matches where CWs/WS are present i am struggling to have an eual death /kills ration.
In matches where CW/WS are absent or low gs i can go to 3/1 kill ratio.
CWs remain deadly.Just the pvp specced ones are few and between.But if you fall into any of these you are toast.
Thing is, my GWF has a epic artefact weapon, 3 leg artefacts, purified set, R9s PvP boons, ca. 20k GS, I asked them for their GS, ~10k. 90% of the OP posts are a result of a bad ELO and not OP classes.
Today I qued with my 15k combat HR. ELO decided to put me with 3 10k ppl against an EoA premade. Their 21k CW killed me in seconds. Is the CW OP compared to combat HR, no. Is a BIS CW OP compared to my HR, yes.
You cant 'fix' classes based on PUGs with a GS range from 5-22k GS. The only valid way is PvP spec BIS equip. Even with my 20k GWF playing against similar geared ppl. I can only say, that in my opinion with good gear class X seems to have an edge about class Y. If a BIS player says, that a BIS GF has the edge on a BIS CW, you just have to belive it, if you dont have similar gear.
Problem number one is ELO, number two is, that CW is viable wit PVE spec in PvP against PuGs. Just put on some black ice gear, get dragon glyphs and you will melt down 90% of the PUGs.
Fine.
All I have to say is:
Focus the CW 2vs1. Any CW in this game dies in about 2-3 secs, 50K HP, rank 10s, BiS gear all boons, legendaries, w/e.
There is nothing more to say. Easiest class to deal with.
It's incredible to see GFs QQing about CWs after the huge buffs to Shield. Any half-decent GFs would be able to murder CWs. Oh, you're getting 2vs1-ed you say, and die?
Good. You should die when in numeric inferiority.
Again.
If you are not a DC or maaaaaaybe a SW, you have no right to complain.
Finally someone is making some sense.
Some small notes:
- that CW mostly killed you cause Red Glyphs.
- a class cannot be hold accountable and destroyed because Reds are OP and out of balance, or because it one-shots pugs with 10% Tenacity and 20% HP, scary **** lol.
Asterog sais that basically Cws are fine you just lack gs guys.Yes CWs are fine.
Asterog signature:
"Chars: CW and DC PvE speced and GWF with a mixed spec."
First char?CW........ ts ts ts.....
Show me any CW on the server that can kill a good HR like Sandstorm Varracht or K4to or Highness Mouz 1v1
Or do you not even know who those are since you are just used to PUG pvp?
This is a thread about someone wanting CW and HR nerfed, nobody here "created" a thread about how bad GF are, I was responding to an ignorant poster wanting more nerfs on GF, please don't reply to me anymore as you are just lacking actual skill to read.
CWs are fine at high end PVP. They are still the squishiest class. They still lose to a BIS HR 1v1 consistently. They are relegated to TR smokers (even though HRs do that better).
An HR is more efficient at killing other HRs, CWs and GWFs than CWs at high end PVP as well.
CWs are indeed much more competent than DCs or TRs or even GFs now in high end PVP, but to say CWs are stronger than HRs at high end PVP is just plain stupid.
Again let me repeat myself: show me ANY CW ON THE SERVER that could kill Sandstorm Varracht, k4to or highness mouz 1v1
The old argument of "show me one".First of all..Hrs are now the most op class.Agreed by the 90% of the community.Further the guys you mentioned are top BiS Hrs few and between.We are talking about 10-15 Hr total in whole server.I wrote a post about the general pvp population.That must remain big ,by responding to their concerns,if right and fixing class imbnalances.Yet your response to me is :
That if a Cw cannot kill a 21k gs HR then the CW class is fine and should remain as it is.Fine.Great answer.But when you demanded GF KV and sos nerfed you did not used the same logic.
To question me if i know some guys that pvp....Well i know them.And played against Kiato..So???if i did not know them that meant that the cw is fine..?lol.
Someone has to know 2-3 guys in order to post?Who are they?the post police?Are you the post police?
"CWs are indeed much more competent than DCs or TRs or even GFs now in high end PVP, but to say CWs are stronger than HRs at high end PVP is just plain stupid"
i did not said such a thing.I said that the combo of thier c /damge/range makes them OP.Hrs are on top yes.But Cws are not too back either.And HRs PB will get a fix soon.Hrs are top.But Cws need an adjustment to their damage and CC abilities.
^^
edit:About the challenge:I cannot speak for others.Nor to mention names as you did.But a certain CW could ALLT control them or at least offer a decent challenge.Especially with the PB /glyph upcoming fix .
Cheers!
Besides extremely few people that either
- play high level PvP
- play multiple classes
... the rest of the posts are complete self-serving garbage. Which is to be expected.
Whenever facts are are requested, or somebody offers a testing opportunity that will be recorded (as I did earlier with the CW dude that said he regularly blasts off HRs and GWFs)...
... there's just silence.
It is sad that these discussions are extremely misleading and can confuse the developers, which should only take notice of claims based on:
- video proof
- ACT data/logs
Because it's nigh impossible to trust what people say otherwise. They all exaggerate and try to get their class in the OP seat, and nothing more.
So take this as a suggestion. All class balance claims/topics from now on should be based on video and ACT data.
No data? No numbers? No proof? Just trash it fast.