To be honest, arguing on class balance is absolutely useless in these forums. Was useless 12 months ago, and is useless now.
Besides extremely few people that either
- play high level PvP
- play multiple classes
... the rest of the posts are complete self-serving garbage. Which is to be expected.
Whenever facts are are requested, or somebody offers a testing opportunity that will be recorded (as I did earlier with the CW dude that said he regularly blasts off HRs and GWFs)...
... there's just silence.
It is sad that these discussions are extremely misleading and can confuse the developers, which should only take notice of claims based on:
- video proof
- ACT data/logs
Because it's nigh impossible to trust what people say otherwise. They all exaggerate and try to get their class in the OP seat, and nothing more.
So take this as a suggestion. All class balance claims/topics from now on should be based on video and ACT data.
No data? No numbers? No proof? Just trash it fast.
act data has no value for pvp (too many variables to account for)...great for pve analysis though
video logs, sure, but also way too many variables at play
the only real way to determine class "balance" imo, is get a couple of similiary skilled players/testers, let them have geared out characters from every class, and have at it
anyone that DOESN'T play all classes really has no "weight" in their opinion
i play all classes, and i agree, combat HRs are super ridiculous in PVP (too much easy damage - piercing, no cooldown on flurry), and it procs too quickly....on top of that, way too tanky for a hybrid/range class with 6 encounters and self healing and deflect/dodges)
and let's not forget disruptive shot, i can keep mostly everyone controlled with boar charge and disruptive shot...it's ridiculous
CWs (if they CC you, you're done pretty much, if you get to them first, you have a chance)
they're pretty OP in pvp, if you can't admit this to yourself, you either don't play all the classes, or only play CW/HR and are fine with your easy mode class
T
edit:About the challenge:I cannot speak for others.Nor to mention names as you did.But a certain CW could ALLT control them or at least offer a decent challenge.Especially with the PB /glyph upcoming fix .
Cheers!
I guarantee you Allt would lose to those 3x HRs I mentioned 70-80% of the time
Asterog sais that basically Cws are fine you just lack gs guys.Yes CWs are fine.
Asterog signature:
"Chars: CW and DC PvE speced and GWF with a mixed spec."
First char?CW........ ts ts ts.....
I posted them in the order of creation. A obervant reader would have seen, that my CW has PvE specs, so no selfserving post here. I PvP on my GWF or the HR. The HR has only 15k GS, so I cant comment on his abilities with decent gear. IF I had black ice gear with my CW I MIGHT use him in PVP.
I farmed glory for artefacts to refine the artefacts on my CW before the assailant nerf. He was OP then. He has 18,4K GS, 3 leg. artefacts and leg. weapon, so IF I would do PvP on my CW, he would be OP against 90% of the PUGs, not bc. of his class, but bc. of his gear. Without BI gear and PvE specs he gets crushed by any similar geared HR, TR, GWF or GF. That I could confirm, but bc. of aforementioned lacks (gear and spec) it is irrelevant.
I posted them in the order of creation. A obervant reader would have seen
^^^
I am not an observant reader.In Mod 2 pvp a IV Sent crushed my GF head with an IBS.Since then i seek help from Dcs to cure my head and help me in mid,against the new bane the HR/CW horde but to no avail..My only hope is the upcoming DC changes... :P :rolleyes:
As a CW player all this talk about having to much CC i find to be incredibly silly, if a GF or GWF is specced with CC which some of them are, they can stun lock and im dead well before them. If an SW hit me with a harrowstorm with the prone, im usually dead right after.
CW's are strong in pvp, just like most other classes when played right and with some gear...
From my persective and after the PB fixe we will have 5 classes that are overall viable in PVP, which means they can get kills, contest nodes, have fun teamfighting and enjoy PVP which are :
CW
SW
Combat HR
Sentinel GWF
GF
Until the rework of TR and DC, i dont see any reason to call for nerf, these classes has close chance to burst each other and there is no need to nerf any of them and having issues against a specific class doesn't mean it is op it mean it has a power kit that counter yours , so stop please calling for nerfs everywhere, once TR and DC catche up to the 5 others balancing will be simple if the devs want to make fights last longer just by buffing Tenacity without ruining PVE for everyone and most people calling for nerfs forgets that PVP is just a small part of this game.
blabla i play all classes blabla nerf cws/hrs blabla play GF as main blabla
Oh how funny. As I met your GF (which I believe is ur main) you were insulting me for playing a HR, insulting me for having r10s, and insulting me for having glyphs slotted.
I fully agree on magiquepurses post. Its funny that some of the most notorious forum warriors and nerf demanders agree with him also
You will never have construcitve discussion about balance in this forum because of players like rotatorkufwhatever, because they lack the knowledge and emotional control to be objective and constructive to begin with.
CWs DONT NEED A NERF! They are fine.
GFs are fine now also and are evry strong in pvp. Every GF who thinks otherwise just lacks the skill and knowlwedge to play his class effecient.
HRs are OP right now mainly because of GLYPHS! Its amazing how even some expirienced players cant grasp that fact. Remove piercing blade entirely and HRs will still shred everyone because of glyphs. Reason for that is their attack speed with rapid strike and the reliable dot of careful attack. But may i ask why people want to nerf the class instead of a broken mechanic called glyphs?
I see so many wrong assumption about HRs in this forum, it makes me laugh everytime…like Flaming enchant is OP for HR… yeah lol ^^
Oh how funny. As I met your GF (which I believe is ur main) you were insulting me for playing a HR, insulting me for having r10s, and insulting me for having glyphs slotted.
I fully agree on magiquepurses post. Its funny that some of the most notorious forum warriors and nerf demanders agree with him also
You will never have construcitve discussion about balance in this forum because of players like rotatorkufwhatever, because they lack the knowledge and emotional control to be objective and constructive to begin with.
CWs DONT NEED A NERF! They are fine.
GFs are fine now also and are evry strong in pvp. Every GF who thinks otherwise just lacks the skill and knowlwedge to play his class effecient.
HRs are OP right now mainly because of GLYPHS! Its amazing how even some expirienced players cant grasp that fact. Remove piercing blade entirely and HRs will still shred everyone because of glyphs. Reason for that is their attack speed with rapid strike and the reliable dot of careful attack. But may i ask why people want to nerf the class instead of a broken mechanic called glyphs?
I see so many wrong assumption about HRs in this forum, it makes me laugh everytime…like Flaming enchant is OP for HR… yeah lol ^^
People want to nerf the class instead of a broken mechanic because Cryptic has consistently shown this is their way of dealing with OP things. Just check the new SoS for the GFs. So there you go, enjoy the upcoming nerfs to Legolas
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I could be just frozen from full health and by the time its over in rotation constantly cced (I had this happen today) i had no health left by the time i was able to break lose. I mean really is this not BS ?
Now HRs , a whole different ballgame, The combat specs wearing leather Armor , logic tells me they should be semi squishy by default but i ran into a few that ,,, my whole team tries to wear them down and their health never budged then they just go fox shift and boarcharge and its over for the whole bunch pretty much. and even with shield up they go right through it and just eat your HP up.
[/QUOTE]
lol i stoped when i read this , man , you are a bad GF , that's all !
I also agree with you telling that person to stop.
Hah. Two CW's agreeing with each other, what a shocker!!
"BiS level the entirety of the game", LMAO! Yes, lets boast about having rich parents and/or exploiting for AD.
Although I can vouch for HR being able to kill scrub CW's, there was actually a video of it.. Some Frost guy vs some scrubbie dubby dooo CW called Desidus. Funny stuff. Showed that not even IK to the face from a VISA master could defeat true talent. Trollol
I can bear a longer queue for pvp if this means no more 20k vs 12k. A rough ripartition in 3 brackets of GS in addition to elo.
First, rework GS and include weapon enchant, armor enchant, hp from gear.
Second, in addition to elo make 3 brackets, each with a internal elo:
- 0-13k gs
- 12k-18k gs
- 18k+ (where top pvpers usually are)
Including weap/armor enchants and hp from gear/ radiants (400 hp = 100 GS).
Or in any other way. But a rough GS ripartition would help much more to improve pug life and balance perception.
Another thing should be requirements. Like at least 5% tenacity to queue for pvp (can buy blue pvp gear , cheap but would show puggers how you must at least gear differently for pvp).
And move the ad rewards all to another daily to prevent ad mules with 6k GS to queue for those dailies.
Also, a separate queue for full premades at least.
Common sense imho to improve pvp with minimal effort...
Any thread that calls for nerfs or buffs to a class without specific information and data as to how those classes should be toned down or dialed up is in violation of the Rules of Conduct.
Examples of what is permitted and what is not:
"I think that this specific power is a bit too strong and maybe it should be dialed back about five or ten percent in strength." - Allowable.
"OMG CW is too strong and they melt everyone's faces off, NERF THEM NAO!!!" - Not allowable.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Comments
act data has no value for pvp (too many variables to account for)...great for pve analysis though
video logs, sure, but also way too many variables at play
the only real way to determine class "balance" imo, is get a couple of similiary skilled players/testers, let them have geared out characters from every class, and have at it
anyone that DOESN'T play all classes really has no "weight" in their opinion
i play all classes, and i agree, combat HRs are super ridiculous in PVP (too much easy damage - piercing, no cooldown on flurry), and it procs too quickly....on top of that, way too tanky for a hybrid/range class with 6 encounters and self healing and deflect/dodges)
and let's not forget disruptive shot, i can keep mostly everyone controlled with boar charge and disruptive shot...it's ridiculous
CWs (if they CC you, you're done pretty much, if you get to them first, you have a chance)
they're pretty OP in pvp, if you can't admit this to yourself, you either don't play all the classes, or only play CW/HR and are fine with your easy mode class
I guarantee you Allt would lose to those 3x HRs I mentioned 70-80% of the time
Its just a dot. Works as intented!
You want old shard and more burst damage back to CWs instead?
We can live with that...
I posted them in the order of creation. A obervant reader would have seen, that my CW has PvE specs, so no selfserving post here. I PvP on my GWF or the HR. The HR has only 15k GS, so I cant comment on his abilities with decent gear. IF I had black ice gear with my CW I MIGHT use him in PVP.
I farmed glory for artefacts to refine the artefacts on my CW before the assailant nerf. He was OP then. He has 18,4K GS, 3 leg. artefacts and leg. weapon, so IF I would do PvP on my CW, he would be OP against 90% of the PUGs, not bc. of his class, but bc. of his gear. Without BI gear and PvE specs he gets crushed by any similar geared HR, TR, GWF or GF. That I could confirm, but bc. of aforementioned lacks (gear and spec) it is irrelevant.
^^^
I am not an observant reader.In Mod 2 pvp a IV Sent crushed my GF head with an IBS.Since then i seek help from Dcs to cure my head and help me in mid,against the new bane the HR/CW horde but to no avail..My only hope is the upcoming DC changes... :P :rolleyes:
If they nerf HR's dodges, bull rush, piercing blades and disruptive shot... (as well as the new GWF troll build) I'd happily go back to module 3 CW.
Until then, I'd focus on lobbying to nerf HRs on PVP first before CW
CW's are strong in pvp, just like most other classes when played right and with some gear...
HR's on the other hand are stupid broken
It's getting so that pretty much all you see on here is pathetic whining nowadays.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
CW
SW
Combat HR
Sentinel GWF
GF
Until the rework of TR and DC, i dont see any reason to call for nerf, these classes has close chance to burst each other and there is no need to nerf any of them and having issues against a specific class doesn't mean it is op it mean it has a power kit that counter yours , so stop please calling for nerfs everywhere, once TR and DC catche up to the 5 others balancing will be simple if the devs want to make fights last longer just by buffing Tenacity without ruining PVE for everyone and most people calling for nerfs forgets that PVP is just a small part of this game.
Oh how funny. As I met your GF (which I believe is ur main) you were insulting me for playing a HR, insulting me for having r10s, and insulting me for having glyphs slotted.
I fully agree on magiquepurses post. Its funny that some of the most notorious forum warriors and nerf demanders agree with him also
You will never have construcitve discussion about balance in this forum because of players like rotatorkufwhatever, because they lack the knowledge and emotional control to be objective and constructive to begin with.
CWs DONT NEED A NERF! They are fine.
GFs are fine now also and are evry strong in pvp. Every GF who thinks otherwise just lacks the skill and knowlwedge to play his class effecient.
HRs are OP right now mainly because of GLYPHS! Its amazing how even some expirienced players cant grasp that fact. Remove piercing blade entirely and HRs will still shred everyone because of glyphs. Reason for that is their attack speed with rapid strike and the reliable dot of careful attack. But may i ask why people want to nerf the class instead of a broken mechanic called glyphs?
I see so many wrong assumption about HRs in this forum, it makes me laugh everytime…like Flaming enchant is OP for HR… yeah lol ^^
People want to nerf the class instead of a broken mechanic because Cryptic has consistently shown this is their way of dealing with OP things. Just check the new SoS for the GFs. So there you go, enjoy the upcoming nerfs to Legolas
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I could be just frozen from full health and by the time its over in rotation constantly cced (I had this happen today) i had no health left by the time i was able to break lose. I mean really is this not BS ?
Now HRs , a whole different ballgame, The combat specs wearing leather Armor , logic tells me they should be semi squishy by default but i ran into a few that ,,, my whole team tries to wear them down and their health never budged then they just go fox shift and boarcharge and its over for the whole bunch pretty much. and even with shield up they go right through it and just eat your HP up.
[/QUOTE]
lol i stoped when i read this , man , you are a bad GF , that's all !
You forgot to mention the SW. With SW, a 5v5 becomes a 7v5.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
Are you seriously complaining about SWs now?
/facepalm...
Hah. Two CW's agreeing with each other, what a shocker!!
"BiS level the entirety of the game", LMAO! Yes, lets boast about having rich parents and/or exploiting for AD.
Although I can vouch for HR being able to kill scrub CW's, there was actually a video of it.. Some Frost guy vs some scrubbie dubby dooo CW called Desidus. Funny stuff. Showed that not even IK to the face from a VISA master could defeat true talent. Trollol
First, rework GS and include weapon enchant, armor enchant, hp from gear.
Second, in addition to elo make 3 brackets, each with a internal elo:
- 0-13k gs
- 12k-18k gs
- 18k+ (where top pvpers usually are)
Including weap/armor enchants and hp from gear/ radiants (400 hp = 100 GS).
Or in any other way. But a rough GS ripartition would help much more to improve pug life and balance perception.
Another thing should be requirements. Like at least 5% tenacity to queue for pvp (can buy blue pvp gear , cheap but would show puggers how you must at least gear differently for pvp).
And move the ad rewards all to another daily to prevent ad mules with 6k GS to queue for those dailies.
Also, a separate queue for full premades at least.
Common sense imho to improve pvp with minimal effort...
Examples of what is permitted and what is not:
"I think that this specific power is a bit too strong and maybe it should be dialed back about five or ten percent in strength." - Allowable.
"OMG CW is too strong and they melt everyone's faces off, NERF THEM NAO!!!" - Not allowable.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com