The point is, DS and cagi are utility aoe powers. Not DMG burst encounters. If whatever the reason, you can use them to burst that way, something is probably wrong. They are not desigend to deal high DPS, and a feat should not change that
The point is, DS and cagi are utility aoe powers. Not DMG burst encounters. If whatever the reason, you can use them to burst that way, something is probably wrong. They are not desigend to deal high DPS, and a feat should not change that
now yes; sentinel have utility and damage like, you know...
that can be work, but i dont see problem to give a real function to sentinel like a nuke controler/aoe burst (in fact, is a big solution and a new GOOD pve choice). if dont cause imbalance or exclude other classes i dont see the problem.
BUT is not a change of one patch. that is the "rework" that the class should have passed the old preview module. tests, changes, adjustments to the destroyer/instigator, etc.
Another op feat because devs don't properly test before releasing stuff. Its funny when sentinel spells hit 3x harder than destroyers.
Should be nerfed to 25% power and it would still be viable.
More like 25%+5% per target in effective range. That would make it 30% vs 1 player/monster and full 50% against 5 players/ mobs. That way sntinel would be less effective against single targets and be as good as it is against mobs. This would keep sentinel on the offtank role and would punish zerg mobs in pvp.
More like 25%+5% per target in effective range. That would make it 30% vs 1 player/monster and full 50% against 5 players/ mobs. That way sntinel would be less effective against single targets and be as good as it is against mobs. This would keep sentinel on the offtank role and would punish zerg mobs in pvp.
They will never do that for GWF. The only thing they do for GWF in AoEs is to decrease the damage per target hit.
They will never do that for GWF. The only thing they do for GWF in AoEs is to decrease the damage per target hit.
And that's the reason why GWF was always such a bad off-tank. I think it's time to change that perspective and stop ruining classes because a few CWs cried a little.
Sentinels FINALLY have some damage and you're trying to ruin it?
I'll remain calm and polite and keep it constructive... for now.
Sentienls literally had no damage, I was tired of playing mine. Now this feat brought back the joy again, WE FINALLY HAVE SOME DAMAGE!!! even with the long cooldown idc.
DO NOT CHANGE IT!
sentinals could do good dmg before but now it is ridiculous. following your logic should gf's protector spec damage get buffed? so they can hit has the dps counter part? you want sentinals to hit as hard as destroyers while being a lot more tankier?
sentinels could get some dps love but....
the guy is right. sentinel should NEVER out-dps a destroyer, either this sh*t needs a toning down or move this feat to destroyer tree.
sentinel facts atm:
tankier than a destroyer
more burst than a destroyer
sentinels could get some dps love but....
the guy is right. sentinel should NEVER out-dps a destroyer, either this sh*t needs a toning down or move this feat to destroyer tree.
sentinel facts atm:
tankier than a destroyer
more burst than a destroyer
And sentinel will NEVER out-dps a destroyer with this feat. Period. Sentinel has 2 burst aoes each 14-18 seconds and nothing more. Destroyer deals 2-3 times higher damage from at-wills and the other encounters, has shorter cooldowns on the skills that matter, and has unstoppable uptime nearly all the time. Sentinel finally got a tool to be actually useful and this ****storm breaks open because a squishy CW got beat by a GWF.
sentinals could do good dmg before but now it is ridiculous. following your logic should gf's protector spec damage get buffed? so they can hit has the dps counter part? you want sentinals to hit as hard as destroyers while being a lot more tankier?
Protector GF does higher damage and tanks much better than sentinel GWF ever could. I suggest you play both classes a bit and then complain.
And sentinel will NEVER out-dps a destroyer with this feat. Period. Sentinel has 2 burst aoes each 14-18 seconds and nothing more. Destroyer deals 2-3 times higher damage from at-wills and the other encounters, has shorter cooldowns on the skills that matter, and has unstoppable uptime nearly all the time. Sentinel finally got a tool to be actually useful and this ****storm breaks open because a squishy CW got beat by a GWF.
It would be hilarious if it wasn't sad.
im talking about pvp.
sentinel is more lethal than destroyers now. yeah I saw a 40k IBS by a destroyer before but that is very rare. (only seen once in over 100+ games)
while sentinels can repeatedly crit a player for 30k+ (the unmitigated damage was 40k)
these 2 encounters are supposed to be utility not burst encounters. the fact that this is AoE makes it more broken.
2 GWFs can clear 5 people if both of their encounters crit. I've seen it and will see it again no doubt.
a GWF is not a tank whatever tree he choses he will still a damage dealer that can soak up some damage, and even with the "intidimidation feat" a sentinel will never out dps a destroyer, and i think it is hilarious how people are asking for more nerfs to GWF after mod4 reduced its potential to the ground in both PVE and PVP.
Protector GF does higher damage and tanks much better than sentinel GWF ever could. I suggest you play both classes a bit and then complain.
i am not complaining about anything, i am giving the facts. gf protector cannot outdps a sentinal. please dont come here and lie just dont. and with this buff sentinals definitely hit about 100% harder than protectors and just as tanky. you guys are saying your tank spec needs a dps buff because you want to hit people for 20ks like a destroyed can but then be able 70% tankier than they are. come on man be reasonable.
i am not complaining about anything, i am giving the facts. gf protector cannot outdps a sentinal. please dont come here and lie just dont. and with this buff sentinals definitely hit about 100% harder than protectors and just as tanky. you guys are saying your tank spec needs a dps buff because you want to hit people for 20ks like a destroyed can but then be able 70% tankier than they are. come on man be reasonable.
Let's compare the facts.
GFs literally have 80% DR from shielding all the time and can mitigate the damage further by feats - GWF only has 80% DR from unstoppable for several seconds and to have that he has to lose at least 1/3rd of his HP, he's also got a 5s buff from daring shout.
GF's at-wills deal twice the damage sentinel GWF's does.
GF's encounters deal great damage and have lots of CCs - GWF's have a fraction of that.
GFs have a ton of support skills, GWF has none other than mark.
Don't forget that GFs can also go conqueror route, still tank as great but deal much more damage than any sentinel. So how in the world can a sentinel outdps and be as tanky as GF as you say? Think hard before you spout such nonsense.
omg these nubs really think this feat is not broken?
no hope for this game.
The thread kinda proves PvErs simply don't have any perspective in terms of balance. They will simply advocate / protect / make up excuses for anything as long as it profits them in character performance.
It doesn't matter if its a clearly OP shi*, broken, unintentional, or simply miscalculated. It doesn't matter if it destroys balance between roles. As long as it does something groovy, it don't matter how game breaking it is.
They will just snarl at anything that even sounds remotely reasonable that might "take away" their ill-gotten character performance.
*snicker* just lookit the way someone even mentions the possibility of a bug or overpowered damage coming from a single feat.. and they already start blaming PvPers for even bringing it up.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Theres the real damage on REAL pvp characters with maxed out gear, and you left out the fact that it can CRIT and crit damage can be effected by vorpal + elixirs and other buffs.
so please, don't be a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and downplay this feat
The thread kinda proves PvErs simply don't have any perspective in terms of balance. They will simply advocate / protect / make up excuses for anything as long as it profits them in character performance.
It doesn't matter if its a clearly OP shi*, broken, unintentional, or simply miscalculated. It doesn't matter if it destroys balance between roles. As long as it does something groovy, it don't matter how game breaking it is.
They will just snarl at anything that even sounds remotely reasonable that might "take away" their ill-gotten character performance.
*snicker* just lookit the way someone even mentions the possibility of a bug or overpowered damage coming from a single feat.. and they already start blaming PvPers for even bringing it up.
I play both PvP and PvE and you're one hypocritical son of a bi-... shop. Sentinels before this change had no role in PvE and PvP at all. They were just some half-assed pseudo tanks who could take the hit and run but couldn't keep threat/do any damage in neither PvP nor PvE. Now they finally can do that, still not as good as GFs, but they can do it.
But here we are, the army of crying CWs came to ruin GWFs once again. Obviously taking away all their prones and nerfing the base damage in mod 4 was not enough for them huh.
WTH am i reading, can you guys really defend this broken ****? I play only pvp these days cus pve is boring. Did some testing and a BiS GWF hit my 5K defense GF for 33K dmg, and hit my BiS pvp speced HR for 36K. If you in anyway think this isnt broken get your head out of the gaddam sand!
0
lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited October 2014
So some CWs come to complain about this feat but they don't complain about how stupid is Storm Spell in PvE at least? :eek: The mentality of some people is amazing.
So some CWs come to complain about this feat but they don't complain about how stupid is Storm Spell in PvE at least? :eek: The mentality of some people is amazing.
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's because this thread isn't about Storm Spell. Anyway, we all know it was perfectly fine before Mod 4 and had no real reason to be injected with so many steroids.
So some CWs come to complain about this feat but they don't complain about how stupid is Storm Spell in PvE at least? :eek: The mentality of some people is amazing.
I believe most of the people here are complaining about PVP.
PVE isn't really worth doing/challenging if you are a hardcore player at this point of the game unless they start adding raids.
So some CWs come to complain about this feat but they don't complain about how stupid is Storm Spell in PvE at least? :eek: The mentality of some people is amazing.
it's not just CWs complaining. This affects everyone in PvP when you can easily one-shot or almost kill multiple players with Intimidation combined with the right encounters.
And we aren't talking about what's broken on CWs. We're talking about GWFs. It's so annoying to have every thread derailed by people being like "WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS OTHER BROKEN THING COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC!?!?" In CW threads, people start complaining about HRs.... in HR threads, people will complain about CWs... in GWF thread, complaining about CWs...
Obviously other things are broken, like the fact the most of CW damage comes off proccs, HR piercing, red glyphs, etc.
This is one more thing that's broken that needs to be changed, and should be talked about.
GFs literally have 80% DR from shielding all the time and can mitigate the damage further by feats - GWF only has 80% DR from unstoppable for several seconds and to have that he has to lose at least 1/3rd of his HP, he's also got a 5s buff from daring shout.
GF's at-wills deal twice the damage sentinel GWF's does.
GF's encounters deal great damage and have lots of CCs - GWF's have a fraction of that.
GFs have a ton of support skills, GWF has none other than mark.
Don't forget that GFs can also go conqueror route, still tank as great but deal much more damage than any sentinel. So how in the world can a sentinel outdps and be as tanky as GF as you say? Think hard before you spout such nonsense.
conqueror gfs hit harder than sentinal. is that a problem? you forgot about the gwf sprint feature? now i know you are just another person lying to get a class buffed. you dont have a fraction of out cc capabilities. you have take down and frontline surge both have long cc, unless you deflect the attack. it is true gf have a ton of support skills but your mark is better than guardian fighters mark.
now to correct your sorry as. before thursday patch. sentinals did not hit has hard as destroyers or conqueror gfs. after the patch they do while also being tankier than those respective specs. sentinal gwf is not tankier than a proctector but he hits 80% harder than a protector gf.
now i am aware of the former reflection build for gf that was extremely overpowered but apparently it has been nerfed reasonably. but you can tell me anything about these classes man or different specs. you are just a liar.
it's not just CWs complaining. This affects everyone in PvP when you can easily one-shot or almost kill multiple players with Intimidation combined with the right encounters.
And we aren't talking about what's broken on CWs. We're talking about GWFs. It's so annoying to have every thread derailed by people being like "WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS OTHER BROKEN THING COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC!?!?" In CW threads, people start complaining about HRs.... in HR threads, people will complain about CWs... in GWF thread, complaining about CWs...
Obviously other things are broken, like the fact the most of CW damage comes off proccs, HR piercing, red glyphs, etc.
This is one more thing that's broken that needs to be changed, and should be talked about.
Wow take a chill pill, 3 people quoted me and you are the one who went mad. As I said in my first post, it will be changed because the PvP people will start QQ here, so relax.
you forgot about the gwf sprint feature? now i know you are just another person lying to get a class buffed.
No, I didn't mention it as it's not relevant to this discussion. It's a gap-closer and evasion skill. Without it GWFs would be sitting ducks unable to reach anyone let alone hit anyone.
you dont have a fraction of out cc capabilities. you have take down and frontline surge both have long cc, unless you deflect the attack. it is true gf have a ton of support skills but your mark is better than guardian fighters mark.
Wrong. GWFs mark is no better than GF's TAB mark. Only aoe mark is different. But then again, GF doesn't have cooldown on TR and can keep mark all the time all the same. And what about takedown and FS? Takedown has such a short range and such a slow animation speed that you can simply walk away from it. FS has almost 20s cooldown and does as much damage as 2 at-will strikes. Oh, and let's not forget the stun lasting less than half a second through some sort of bug or a "feature".
now to correct your sorry as. before thursday patch. sentinals did not hit has hard as destroyers or conqueror gfs. after the patch they do while also being tankier than those respective specs. sentinal gwf is not tankier than a proctector but he hits 80% harder than a protector gf.
Wrong again. Sentinels DO NOT hit hardr than destroyer GWFs or conqueror GFs or even protector GFs. Now take a notebook and compare how much damage destroyer's feated encounters and at-wills do, how much uptime destroyer's unstoppable lasts. Do the same with GF. And then compare how much damage sentinel GWF really does. 2 encounters with cooldowns from 14 to 18 seconds and all the other sources do probably the least damage in the whole game, only rivaled by DCs. Go on, test it! I dare you, you ignorant shuck.
now i am aware of the former reflection build for gf that was extremely overpowered but apparently it has been nerfed reasonably. but you can tell me anything about these classes man or different specs. you are just a liar.
GF is strong even without the cookie-cutter build that was hold-shift-&-rofl. I'm not a liar, at least prove me one before accusing. I do want sentinel buffed but that's because it's a useless class that before this patch had no role in the game since mod 4. He does no damage, tanks much worse than GF, has no support skills appart from mark and can't hold aggro due to low threat generation (connected to low damage). So what the hell is sentinel? A runner? A snail? A punching bag?
Now this patch came and every CW, HR and GF come running to the forums and crying about their favorite punching bag starting to punch back! How amusing! Instead of adapting and learning to play against them. Hint: not zerging and timing dodges.
Comments
now yes; sentinel have utility and damage like, you know...
that can be work, but i dont see problem to give a real function to sentinel like a nuke controler/aoe burst (in fact, is a big solution and a new GOOD pve choice). if dont cause imbalance or exclude other classes i dont see the problem.
BUT is not a change of one patch. that is the "rework" that the class should have passed the old preview module. tests, changes, adjustments to the destroyer/instigator, etc.
More like 25%+5% per target in effective range. That would make it 30% vs 1 player/monster and full 50% against 5 players/ mobs. That way sntinel would be less effective against single targets and be as good as it is against mobs. This would keep sentinel on the offtank role and would punish zerg mobs in pvp.
They will never do that for GWF. The only thing they do for GWF in AoEs is to decrease the damage per target hit.
And that's the reason why GWF was always such a bad off-tank. I think it's time to change that perspective and stop ruining classes because a few CWs cried a little.
sentinals could do good dmg before but now it is ridiculous. following your logic should gf's protector spec damage get buffed? so they can hit has the dps counter part? you want sentinals to hit as hard as destroyers while being a lot more tankier?
the guy is right. sentinel should NEVER out-dps a destroyer, either this sh*t needs a toning down or move this feat to destroyer tree.
sentinel facts atm:
tankier than a destroyer
more burst than a destroyer
And sentinel will NEVER out-dps a destroyer with this feat. Period. Sentinel has 2 burst aoes each 14-18 seconds and nothing more. Destroyer deals 2-3 times higher damage from at-wills and the other encounters, has shorter cooldowns on the skills that matter, and has unstoppable uptime nearly all the time. Sentinel finally got a tool to be actually useful and this ****storm breaks open because a squishy CW got beat by a GWF.
It would be hilarious if it wasn't sad.
Protector GF does higher damage and tanks much better than sentinel GWF ever could. I suggest you play both classes a bit and then complain.
im talking about pvp.
sentinel is more lethal than destroyers now. yeah I saw a 40k IBS by a destroyer before but that is very rare. (only seen once in over 100+ games)
while sentinels can repeatedly crit a player for 30k+ (the unmitigated damage was 40k)
these 2 encounters are supposed to be utility not burst encounters. the fact that this is AoE makes it more broken.
2 GWFs can clear 5 people if both of their encounters crit. I've seen it and will see it again no doubt.
i am not complaining about anything, i am giving the facts. gf protector cannot outdps a sentinal. please dont come here and lie just dont. and with this buff sentinals definitely hit about 100% harder than protectors and just as tanky. you guys are saying your tank spec needs a dps buff because you want to hit people for 20ks like a destroyed can but then be able 70% tankier than they are. come on man be reasonable.
Let's compare the facts.
GFs literally have 80% DR from shielding all the time and can mitigate the damage further by feats - GWF only has 80% DR from unstoppable for several seconds and to have that he has to lose at least 1/3rd of his HP, he's also got a 5s buff from daring shout.
GF's at-wills deal twice the damage sentinel GWF's does.
GF's encounters deal great damage and have lots of CCs - GWF's have a fraction of that.
GFs have a ton of support skills, GWF has none other than mark.
Don't forget that GFs can also go conqueror route, still tank as great but deal much more damage than any sentinel. So how in the world can a sentinel outdps and be as tanky as GF as you say? Think hard before you spout such nonsense.
The thread kinda proves PvErs simply don't have any perspective in terms of balance. They will simply advocate / protect / make up excuses for anything as long as it profits them in character performance.
It doesn't matter if its a clearly OP shi*, broken, unintentional, or simply miscalculated. It doesn't matter if it destroys balance between roles. As long as it does something groovy, it don't matter how game breaking it is.
They will just snarl at anything that even sounds remotely reasonable that might "take away" their ill-gotten character performance.
*snicker* just lookit the way someone even mentions the possibility of a bug or overpowered damage coming from a single feat.. and they already start blaming PvPers for even bringing it up.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
That's hit kill on me tbh.
I play both PvP and PvE and you're one hypocritical son of a bi-... shop. Sentinels before this change had no role in PvE and PvP at all. They were just some half-assed pseudo tanks who could take the hit and run but couldn't keep threat/do any damage in neither PvP nor PvE. Now they finally can do that, still not as good as GFs, but they can do it.
But here we are, the army of crying CWs came to ruin GWFs once again. Obviously taking away all their prones and nerfing the base damage in mod 4 was not enough for them huh.
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's because this thread isn't about Storm Spell. Anyway, we all know it was perfectly fine before Mod 4 and had no real reason to be injected with so many steroids.
I believe most of the people here are complaining about PVP.
PVE isn't really worth doing/challenging if you are a hardcore player at this point of the game unless they start adding raids.
it's not just CWs complaining. This affects everyone in PvP when you can easily one-shot or almost kill multiple players with Intimidation combined with the right encounters.
And we aren't talking about what's broken on CWs. We're talking about GWFs. It's so annoying to have every thread derailed by people being like "WELL WHAT ABOUT THIS OTHER BROKEN THING COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC!?!?" In CW threads, people start complaining about HRs.... in HR threads, people will complain about CWs... in GWF thread, complaining about CWs...
Obviously other things are broken, like the fact the most of CW damage comes off proccs, HR piercing, red glyphs, etc.
This is one more thing that's broken that needs to be changed, and should be talked about.
Gear is important too. Stack a lot of power.
conqueror gfs hit harder than sentinal. is that a problem? you forgot about the gwf sprint feature? now i know you are just another person lying to get a class buffed. you dont have a fraction of out cc capabilities. you have take down and frontline surge both have long cc, unless you deflect the attack. it is true gf have a ton of support skills but your mark is better than guardian fighters mark.
now to correct your sorry as. before thursday patch. sentinals did not hit has hard as destroyers or conqueror gfs. after the patch they do while also being tankier than those respective specs. sentinal gwf is not tankier than a proctector but he hits 80% harder than a protector gf.
now i am aware of the former reflection build for gf that was extremely overpowered but apparently it has been nerfed reasonably. but you can tell me anything about these classes man or different specs. you are just a liar.
meh, not worthy... but i understand now
Wow take a chill pill, 3 people quoted me and you are the one who went mad. As I said in my first post, it will be changed because the PvP people will start QQ here, so relax.
No, I didn't mention it as it's not relevant to this discussion. It's a gap-closer and evasion skill. Without it GWFs would be sitting ducks unable to reach anyone let alone hit anyone.
Wrong. GWFs mark is no better than GF's TAB mark. Only aoe mark is different. But then again, GF doesn't have cooldown on TR and can keep mark all the time all the same. And what about takedown and FS? Takedown has such a short range and such a slow animation speed that you can simply walk away from it. FS has almost 20s cooldown and does as much damage as 2 at-will strikes. Oh, and let's not forget the stun lasting less than half a second through some sort of bug or a "feature".
Wrong again. Sentinels DO NOT hit hardr than destroyer GWFs or conqueror GFs or even protector GFs. Now take a notebook and compare how much damage destroyer's feated encounters and at-wills do, how much uptime destroyer's unstoppable lasts. Do the same with GF. And then compare how much damage sentinel GWF really does. 2 encounters with cooldowns from 14 to 18 seconds and all the other sources do probably the least damage in the whole game, only rivaled by DCs. Go on, test it! I dare you, you ignorant shuck.
GF is strong even without the cookie-cutter build that was hold-shift-&-rofl. I'm not a liar, at least prove me one before accusing. I do want sentinel buffed but that's because it's a useless class that before this patch had no role in the game since mod 4. He does no damage, tanks much worse than GF, has no support skills appart from mark and can't hold aggro due to low threat generation (connected to low damage). So what the hell is sentinel? A runner? A snail? A punching bag?
Now this patch came and every CW, HR and GF come running to the forums and crying about their favorite punching bag starting to punch back! How amusing! Instead of adapting and learning to play against them. Hint: not zerging and timing dodges.