now yes; sentinel have utility and damage like, you know...
that can be work, but i dont see problem to give a real function to sentinel like a nuke controler/aoe burst (in fact, is a big solution and a new GOOD pve choice). if dont cause imbalance or exclude other classes i dont see the problem.
BUT is not a change of one patch. that is the "rework" that the class should have passed the old preview module. tests, changes, adjustments to the destroyer/instigator, etc.
Dude, first stop brekaing English. Second, the Sentinel is supposed to be the tank GWF, toughest of the bunch and you see no problem making him a "nuker" ? Enough biased bull****. Enjoy yet another cheese while it lasts - it will be changed.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Dude, first stop brekaing English. Second, the Sentinel is supposed to be the tank GWF, toughest of the bunch and you see no problem making him a "nuker" ? Enough biased bull****. Enjoy yet another cheese while it lasts - it will be changed.
Well lets look at this from the Sentinels point of view compared to other class changes.
Sent ruled for some time in pvp in a way that no class should that is true but when the nerf of bleed + some other changes came they became so bad it was unplayable.
Now one can argue that every class has some path that is worse then others but we all know that instagator is allready unplayable and destroyer is the only path valid left for gwf to play leaving the *tank gwf floating in the void.
If you compare the new feat for sents toward the dam+control a cw has or the healing+dam a hr has I hardly see that tank+dam being out of line tbh.
Sw can heal if not better then at least good enough to replace a dc in dungeons + doing exelent damage and with the changes incomming to tr and dc (whish hopefully will put them back at the map) all in all i hardly think we can qq to much about sent gwfs.
I think the qq as soon as some class get some upgrade is getting a bit out of line on these forums, most of the time its long time overdue with some upgrades like in the case of gfs.
Since beta nerfs has done more harm then good imho and most buffs has been needed even though some of the cw buffs was a bit out of the line together with some gfs buggs that has been corrected lately.
I play both PvP and PvE and you're one hypocritical son of a bi-... shop. Sentinels before this change had no role in PvE and PvP at all. They were just some half-assed pseudo tanks who could take the hit and run but couldn't keep threat/do any damage in neither PvP nor PvE. Now they finally can do that, still not as good as GFs, but they can do it.
Load of crapshi* bollocks if I've ever heard one. Your simply dragging the GWFs back into mod2 days where they were a freakish combination of insane survivability + insane damage.
But here we are, the army of crying CWs came to ruin GWFs once again. Obviously taking away all their prones and nerfing the base damage in mod 4 was not enough for them huh.
The amount of hate the GWFs generated all through mod2 and mod3 burns through everyone who experienced the shi*packed nightmare the GWFs brought forth, and still plays the game. They were THAT OP.
There's a friggin reason why they divided the characteristics so Destroyers would hit hard, but would be soft, while Sentinels would be hard, but hit soft.
CWs crying? You're gonna hear everyone crying if your flawed crapbag of a logic demanding Sentinels get BOTH survivability AND damage, is ever realized... because we've all been there, done that, and witnessed what a load of HAMSTER a broken god-mode class brings into the game.
The current dominance of CWs or HRs -- as terrible as they are -- are NOTHING compared to the absolute horror the GWF was.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Well lets look at this from the Sentinels point of view compared to other class changes.
Sent ruled for some time in pvp in a way that no class should that is true but when the nerf of bleed + some other changes came they became so bad it was unplayable.
Now one can argue that every class has some path that is worse then others but we all know that instagator is allready unplayable and destroyer is the only path valid left for gwf to play leaving the *tank gwf floating in the void.
If you compare the new feat for sents toward the dam+control a cw has or the healing+dam a hr has I hardly see that tank+dam being out of line tbh.
Sw can heal if not better then at least good enough to replace a dc in dungeons + doing exelent damage and with the changes incomming to tr and dc (whish hopefully will put them back at the map) all in all i hardly think we can qq to much about sent gwfs.
I think the qq as soon as some class get some upgrade is getting a bit out of line on these forums, most of the time its long time overdue with some upgrades like in the case of gfs.
Since beta nerfs has done more harm then good imho and most buffs has been needed even though some of the cw buffs was a bit out of the line together with some gfs buggs that has been corrected lately.
Best
Flawed logic.
What you should be asking is more distinction between the different GWF paths, so that Sentinels and Destroyers are more clearly defined. Currently, despite the nerfs, what you have is Destroyers still managing to survive more or less adequately (although it definately cannot do the ol' "charge in where 4 enemies are defending and survive and kill forver to contest the node" thing) through different playstyles and much too powerful utility tools like Sprint.
Hence, your "role of sentinels" should be sought out along the paths where a team may make use of clearly tougher/tankier version of the GWF, rather than the Destroyer, which should be (relatively speaking) a "glass cannon" compared to the Sentinel.
Instead, you people are asking the GWF Sentinels to revert back to mod2 days.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Load of crapshi* bollocks if I've ever heard one. Your simply dragging the GWFs back into mod2 days where they were a freakish combination of insane survivability + insane damage.
Insane survivability? Lol. Have you any idea how much damage a GWF has to take to get into unstoppable? And then again, healing depression which cuts regeneration/lifesteal/temp hp in half. So where's your insane survivability? Or do you mean that @lolmechanic called sprint? :rolleyes:
And insane damage? You do realize these are just 2 encounters with insane cooldown and sentinel has NOTHING appart from that? The best he can do is slot BF or FL along the 2 encounters and those have insane cooldowns too, put on sure strike for stacking weapon master and threatening rush for a sub-gap closer/marker. None of which do any damage. Also, Daring Shout has such a long animation it can easily be canceled or walked away from. The only dangerous of these two is Come and Get It.
There's a friggin reason why they divided the characteristics so Destroyers would hit hard, but would be soft, while Sentinels would be hard, but hit soft.
YET, at the very same time GF hits and tanks much harder than a sentinel. And no-one even raises an eyebrow about that. Where's your magic logic here?
CWs crying? You're gonna hear everyone crying if your flawed crapbag of a logic demanding Sentinels get BOTH survivability AND damage, is ever realized... because we've all been there, done that, and witnessed what a load of HAMSTER a broken god-mode class brings into the game.
The current dominance of CWs or HRs -- as terrible as they are -- are NOTHING compared to the absolute horror the GWF was.
Once again, you're crying about OP damage yet you fail to realize that apart from these 2 encounters Sentinel has nothing. Base damage nerfed, Roar nerfed, FLS nerfed, TR nerfed, TD nerfed, determination gain nerfed, threat gain nerfed (indirectly). And now you're asking to nerf to the ground the only mechanic that finally made sentinel able to keep threat and contribute a bit of damage?
I've suggested changing how the feat works earlier in this thread (damage= 25% of power + 5% per target in effective range) which wouldn't ruin the class for PvE (again), wouldn't deal that much damage in PvP unless matched against zergs. Who, tbh, deserve the punishment.
We are talking about crypic *logic is a floating thing in here at best ...
What you should be asking is more distinction between the different GWF paths, so that Sentinels and Destroyers are more clearly defined. Currently, despite the nerfs, what you have is Destroyers still managing to survive more or less adequately (although it definately cannot do the ol' "charge in where 4 enemies are defending and survive and kill forver to contest the node" thing) through different playstyles and much too powerful utility tools like Sprint.
The gwf class is more dps then the gf class so tank is a relative term when you talk about differnt path of gwfs.
Destroyer has higher dps and even higher burst dam once they get all stack in line.
You cant make sent with allmost no dps at all and only able to tank this game do not function that way due to aggro management.
If Destroyer path has higher dps overall by a wide margin I dont see why sent cant be allowed to have some burst dam that makes them at least valid to play especially as they have so long cool down on those powers.
Instead, you people are asking the GWF Sentinels to revert back to mod2 days.
Nobody in the right mind would want that :-).
But that is not the case as other classes today would make old sent alot less OP then was the case back in module 2.
As it is now a class with bad aggro **** for dam and very good at tanking is frankly nothing to play and if they get some burst to make them somewhat valid again I for one cant see the harm in it.
Hr+cw+gf+sw has enough going for them any way whats the harm in sent getting something that at least make them playable?
Well lets look at this from the Sentinels point of view compared to other class changes.
Sent ruled for some time in pvp in a way that no class should that is true but when the nerf of bleed + some other changes came they became so bad it was unplayable.
Now one can argue that every class has some path that is worse then others but we all know that instagator is allready unplayable and destroyer is the only path valid left for gwf to play leaving the *tank gwf floating in the void.
If you compare the new feat for sents toward the dam+control a cw has or the healing+dam a hr has I hardly see that tank+dam being out of line tbh.
Sw can heal if not better then at least good enough to replace a dc in dungeons + doing exelent damage and with the changes incomming to tr and dc (whish hopefully will put them back at the map) all in all i hardly think we can qq to much about sent gwfs.
I think the qq as soon as some class get some upgrade is getting a bit out of line on these forums, most of the time its long time overdue with some upgrades like in the case of gfs.
Since beta nerfs has done more harm then good imho and most buffs has been needed even though some of the cw buffs was a bit out of the line together with some gfs buggs that has been corrected lately.
Best
exactly. now emilemo
1 - A - I said that this can be worked (work = change). B - I said this is not change for a patch (preview module).
2 - functions change. remember the m1 destroyer?
3 there is a difference between you being a prude and you will be political. the pattern of the game is nonsense now. or you screaming for a "deep game rework " that will never happen, or you accept this change as being critical to the condition of the game and your class (I was the first to show a screenshot).
you can see my "gwf project" (note for my spinning strike change)... you dont need to be a genius to know what I mean by "preview, functions change , etc, etc, etc. I'm just being political.
Comments
Dude, first stop brekaing English. Second, the Sentinel is supposed to be the tank GWF, toughest of the bunch and you see no problem making him a "nuker" ? Enough biased bull****. Enjoy yet another cheese while it lasts - it will be changed.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Well lets look at this from the Sentinels point of view compared to other class changes.
Sent ruled for some time in pvp in a way that no class should that is true but when the nerf of bleed + some other changes came they became so bad it was unplayable.
Now one can argue that every class has some path that is worse then others but we all know that instagator is allready unplayable and destroyer is the only path valid left for gwf to play leaving the *tank gwf floating in the void.
If you compare the new feat for sents toward the dam+control a cw has or the healing+dam a hr has I hardly see that tank+dam being out of line tbh.
Sw can heal if not better then at least good enough to replace a dc in dungeons + doing exelent damage and with the changes incomming to tr and dc (whish hopefully will put them back at the map) all in all i hardly think we can qq to much about sent gwfs.
I think the qq as soon as some class get some upgrade is getting a bit out of line on these forums, most of the time its long time overdue with some upgrades like in the case of gfs.
Since beta nerfs has done more harm then good imho and most buffs has been needed even though some of the cw buffs was a bit out of the line together with some gfs buggs that has been corrected lately.
Best
Load of crapshi* bollocks if I've ever heard one. Your simply dragging the GWFs back into mod2 days where they were a freakish combination of insane survivability + insane damage.
The amount of hate the GWFs generated all through mod2 and mod3 burns through everyone who experienced the shi*packed nightmare the GWFs brought forth, and still plays the game. They were THAT OP.
There's a friggin reason why they divided the characteristics so Destroyers would hit hard, but would be soft, while Sentinels would be hard, but hit soft.
CWs crying? You're gonna hear everyone crying if your flawed crapbag of a logic demanding Sentinels get BOTH survivability AND damage, is ever realized... because we've all been there, done that, and witnessed what a load of HAMSTER a broken god-mode class brings into the game.
The current dominance of CWs or HRs -- as terrible as they are -- are NOTHING compared to the absolute horror the GWF was.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Flawed logic.
What you should be asking is more distinction between the different GWF paths, so that Sentinels and Destroyers are more clearly defined. Currently, despite the nerfs, what you have is Destroyers still managing to survive more or less adequately (although it definately cannot do the ol' "charge in where 4 enemies are defending and survive and kill forver to contest the node" thing) through different playstyles and much too powerful utility tools like Sprint.
Hence, your "role of sentinels" should be sought out along the paths where a team may make use of clearly tougher/tankier version of the GWF, rather than the Destroyer, which should be (relatively speaking) a "glass cannon" compared to the Sentinel.
Instead, you people are asking the GWF Sentinels to revert back to mod2 days.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
And insane damage? You do realize these are just 2 encounters with insane cooldown and sentinel has NOTHING appart from that? The best he can do is slot BF or FL along the 2 encounters and those have insane cooldowns too, put on sure strike for stacking weapon master and threatening rush for a sub-gap closer/marker. None of which do any damage. Also, Daring Shout has such a long animation it can easily be canceled or walked away from. The only dangerous of these two is Come and Get It.
YET, at the very same time GF hits and tanks much harder than a sentinel. And no-one even raises an eyebrow about that. Where's your magic logic here?
Once again, you're crying about OP damage yet you fail to realize that apart from these 2 encounters Sentinel has nothing. Base damage nerfed, Roar nerfed, FLS nerfed, TR nerfed, TD nerfed, determination gain nerfed, threat gain nerfed (indirectly). And now you're asking to nerf to the ground the only mechanic that finally made sentinel able to keep threat and contribute a bit of damage?
I've suggested changing how the feat works earlier in this thread (damage= 25% of power + 5% per target in effective range) which wouldn't ruin the class for PvE (again), wouldn't deal that much damage in PvP unless matched against zergs. Who, tbh, deserve the punishment.
The gwf class is more dps then the gf class so tank is a relative term when you talk about differnt path of gwfs.
Destroyer has higher dps and even higher burst dam once they get all stack in line.
You cant make sent with allmost no dps at all and only able to tank this game do not function that way due to aggro management.
If Destroyer path has higher dps overall by a wide margin I dont see why sent cant be allowed to have some burst dam that makes them at least valid to play especially as they have so long cool down on those powers.
Nobody in the right mind would want that :-).
But that is not the case as other classes today would make old sent alot less OP then was the case back in module 2.
As it is now a class with bad aggro **** for dam and very good at tanking is frankly nothing to play and if they get some burst to make them somewhat valid again I for one cant see the harm in it.
Hr+cw+gf+sw has enough going for them any way whats the harm in sent getting something that at least make them playable?
exactly. now emilemo
1 - A - I said that this can be worked (work = change). B - I said this is not change for a patch (preview module).
2 - functions change. remember the m1 destroyer?
3 there is a difference between you being a prude and you will be political. the pattern of the game is nonsense now. or you screaming for a "deep game rework " that will never happen, or you accept this change as being critical to the condition of the game and your class (I was the first to show a screenshot).
simple like that.
ps:http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?747511-How-would-you-like-to-see-GWF
you can see my "gwf project" (note for my spinning strike change)... you dont need to be a genius to know what I mean by "preview, functions change , etc, etc, etc. I'm just being political.