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(Ant-Monster) SoS was NOT the problem.
lvl99looter
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
With the ability too mitigate SoS's damage via deflect/damage resistance, that is going too make things incredibly difficult for mid-range GF's when fighting HR's TR's and multiple CW's. I honestly don't know why they decided too nerf SoS when SoS was NEVER the problem. If it was, people would have brought it too the forums a LOOONG time go. The ONLY issues were KV's AP gain, and Glyphs.
Reasons why SoS is NOT OP:
1. (TR's) - When fighting perma stealth rogues, who use duelist Flurry (DF for short). For the most part, you can only deal damage too them when you catch them off guard after they roll while activating stealth, or when you catch them DF'ing you. For those who are unaware, TR's have 100% deflection while Impossible to Catch (ITC for short) is active. With that said, after many months of using SoS too combat these TR's. Not ONCE have they ever complained.
2. (HR's) - If there was a poll, based on figuring out what the most over powered class in the game was. The HR would take first place, but this thread is not about that. However, I said that because the ONLY effective way too kill the HR as a GF is too allow him/her too kill him/herself via SoS. HR's can achieve a really high deflection chance, have access too incredible self healing, and lots of immunity via dodges & encounter animations. With their high deflection, immunity, and DPS, how are mid-range GF's suppose too combat these 6 dodge having, DPS, immunity 'things?'
3. Do you guys understand what I'm getting at here? SoS was not the issue, the action point gain and Glyphs were, on a ratio scale of 80% AP 20% Glyphs. Speaking of Gylphs, this is about too sound crazy, but Glyphs were actually balancing things out in high end PvP. But high end PvP'ers only make up like 3% of the PvP population (which includes me), so I say nerfs/balancing should NOT be based on the 3%'ers needs, but should be based on the 97%'ers needs.
One last thing, from what I've seen. SoS seems too have an damage cap. For example, if the DAILY Supremacy of Steel reflected 20% of incoming damage, you would think when a GWF smacks 15k on you, you'd reflect 3,750 damage. But this NEVER happens! The highest I've seen SoS hit for was like 800-1.2k damage. So if players can now mitigate (damage resistance), and deflect this damage. SoS is going too s..............
I highly recommened you un-nerf the dailies that requires 100% action points; Supremacy of Steel. Un-nerf lurkers assault, un-nerf ice knife, un-nerf shocking execution.
Ant-Monster,
Reasons why SoS is NOT OP:
1. (TR's) - When fighting perma stealth rogues, who use duelist Flurry (DF for short). For the most part, you can only deal damage too them when you catch them off guard after they roll while activating stealth, or when you catch them DF'ing you. For those who are unaware, TR's have 100% deflection while Impossible to Catch (ITC for short) is active. With that said, after many months of using SoS too combat these TR's. Not ONCE have they ever complained.
2. (HR's) - If there was a poll, based on figuring out what the most over powered class in the game was. The HR would take first place, but this thread is not about that. However, I said that because the ONLY effective way too kill the HR as a GF is too allow him/her too kill him/herself via SoS. HR's can achieve a really high deflection chance, have access too incredible self healing, and lots of immunity via dodges & encounter animations. With their high deflection, immunity, and DPS, how are mid-range GF's suppose too combat these 6 dodge having, DPS, immunity 'things?'
3. Do you guys understand what I'm getting at here? SoS was not the issue, the action point gain and Glyphs were, on a ratio scale of 80% AP 20% Glyphs. Speaking of Gylphs, this is about too sound crazy, but Glyphs were actually balancing things out in high end PvP. But high end PvP'ers only make up like 3% of the PvP population (which includes me), so I say nerfs/balancing should NOT be based on the 3%'ers needs, but should be based on the 97%'ers needs.
One last thing, from what I've seen. SoS seems too have an damage cap. For example, if the DAILY Supremacy of Steel reflected 20% of incoming damage, you would think when a GWF smacks 15k on you, you'd reflect 3,750 damage. But this NEVER happens! The highest I've seen SoS hit for was like 800-1.2k damage. So if players can now mitigate (damage resistance), and deflect this damage. SoS is going too s..............
I highly recommened you un-nerf the dailies that requires 100% action points; Supremacy of Steel. Un-nerf lurkers assault, un-nerf ice knife, un-nerf shocking execution.
Ant-Monster,
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hmm... this sounds VERY familiar... Told you so...
... but in PvE, SoS was able to be up all the time.
It seem dev' don't want GF can have perma SoS, so they have make SoS stop AP gain when he is used : i think it's a fail from dev', they was just not able to just stop AP gain from SoS only so they have stop all AP generation from all sources.
So now we have a 14 sec duration daily buff, stoping AP gain (lol), reflecting not back a part of damages received, but a small capped and mitigated number : can dev' also Rename SoS (Supremacy of Steel) as WoS (Weakness of Steel) ?
I hope this will be fix soon.
Ho, about PvP, only top geared ppl knowing there class can see if something is OP or not, ppl with low gear, low knowledge of there class should first achieve to join the top before crying about something too OP for him, my point of view.
Anyway, Glyph are broken, deal too much damages for a slot, and works too well with multi-hit habilities. (but we will only cry on PvP because NPC seem to deal with it
the AP gain was caused by KV + glyphs. I can fill 30% max with SoS only. So it s not the fault of SoS for the AP gain.
I said SoS was not an issue and i don't understand why dev' nerf it like that.
I suppose they don't want GF be able to perma SoS, this will explain why this nerf happen.
Again : yes KV and glyph was broken, now glyph are still broken, KV is fine, and SoS is useless.
Dev' prefer sacrifice GF than fix glyph or fix mechanic.
The fact that so many of you proudly jumped the bandwagon (see the local "antizerg" lol"build"), made sure that the devs will notice how broken the combo is and overnerf it.
GG.
I feel like it's just dev' want a simple and quick way to remove the OP combo from GF (also lag they do), so they have use the nerf hammer against GF (again) : issue solved.
But now GF don't understand why they should be the only class who can't gain AP during the use of a daily.
HR is far and away the most OP out of balance class in the Game right now. Tankier than a GWF in plate armor, More DPS... So much DoT's that it can feel like a one shot burst, More Healing than a devoted healing class. It's just stupid.
Glyphs don't generate AP. It was solely knight's valor that was generating the AP fast enough too have 80-100% daily up time.
I agree. That's exactly why I won't release my new build. All successful builds become popular, and then nerfed. I've worked too hard, invested too much time, and have became a P2W a****** during 2x refinement point weekend, for my new build too get nerfed. I've finally achieve a build that allows me too 1 shot people! Do you know how AWESOME it felt too 1 shot a Dev for 40k HP lol (during the Dev hunt event)!?!? Anyways... I agree with you, and therefore will not be releasing my new build.
If you've already created a post about the subject, had no idea. I just returned too the forums after 2 weeks too create this post. In other words, I didn't read anyone else stuff.
Hmm... You raise very interesting point.
You nailed it!
Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR
Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
Nope, I dont think they have ever reverse nerfed anything.
The change was stupid, before it was JUST a bit better over villians menace, because it was good vs wizards and rogues or very stupid GWFs. But the good ones would just avoid hitting you anyway so it was hit and miss in terms of effectiveness,
Now it just sucks. Why don't i complain? Because i lost faith in PvP balancing along time ago, they will just mess up something else in a few months anyway to another class, so I will save my breath.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
It prones though block, it prones through unstopable, it prones though impossible to catch, and it sets up Bull Rush + Frontline Surge + Knee Breaker with red glyphs. (Not such a secret, Ant-Monster.)
After a week of intense testing for a high end premade vs premade match between Absolute/Synergy and Chocolate Shoppe, our GFs concluded the SoS was strictly unplayable. Terrifying Impact is the new bees-knees, especially coupled with Red glyphs and Knee Breaker.
Supremacy of Steel, Knight's Valor, Red Glyphs, and Sigil of the Devoted made for intense starts to any Domination or GG. The nerf cut my kills back by a third, but the build isn't dead. Knight's Valor still does so much work all on its own, and Knee Breaker + Red Glyphs is a death sentence for most players.
If you haven't heard, Absolute/Synergy beat CS yesterday, and the GFs in the rainbow v. rainbow were just about inconsequential in the match. GWF--what? I do feel I would have played a larger role in the match if Supremacy of Steel was still playable.
Leading up to this latest patch, there was only one high-end pvp build for GFs. Supremacy of Steel is virtually unplayable right now, but the build remains top tier. While half of all GFs are scrambling to suss out the new conqueror build that will dominate for a while, I'll be hanging out with the half that still like to tank with a tank, instead of running around like GWFs with a shield.
Sig Blood Knight@tehsig
Tank with perma SoS (for me as a CW i can't hit him while this daily is active and it is actually active all time and reflected more damage than i can deal, yes becouse of glypsh but without them too) and perma shield hitting from one skill around 20k crit dmg, really Tank is so poor now.
Dude read and then post... SoS is no problem, AP gain was the problem that s what we all say here... On the other side the dmg reflected by the guard (guarded assault) I really don t know if that thing can crit or not... + the reflected dmg has a limit and it is 15% of GF's HP, so if u hit like a "nice guy" u pay the price...
Link (if u want/need/care about it): http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?716071-Tyranny-of-Dragons-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-25-20140721a-3
I really didn t know that...
I guess they play super casual.
Ant has always been a fan of the cc spamming GF
PS: Also lol at you people who rush to change your builds with every change the devs make just so you can keep your ranking or whatever. Freakin' weak
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
SoS still works moderately for PvE. I just hate that I can't gain any AP while using it. Also, as a Protector GF who's not a fan of KV unless absolutely necessary, I find many other ways to successfully tank and control the mobs around me and I find that, in doing so, I have far better control of my damage intake, because there aren't any reckless TRs/CWs/HRs feeling invulnerable. That being said, they've already taken my SoS. I'm not sharing my PvE build until it looks safe (and until I have all the kinks ironed out, but hey)
And, if you couldn't tell, like Sig, above, I prefer playing a GF tank. (Never was a fan of the GF/GWF paragon crossover of Mod2; they should have made new paragons, distinct for the classes)
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
But why the SoS nerf? And where is the nerf for the red glyphs? HRs are totaly OP with them.
Here some points why I think SoS nerf is totaly unnecessary:
1) Tactican build has it focus on AP gain. With SoS you have 10 seconds where you get 0 AP. I think this is the only skill in the hole game for all classes where you get 0 AP over 10 secs! But the GF, who has it focus on AP gain and needs 100% AP for all dailies, has such a skill now...
2) If you are tactican or protector you can't get a lot of dps with ur normal offensive attacks. So you try to stay alive, buff ur party, get AP and throw back dmg. Now GF gets much lesser AP. On the one site lesser because of KV nerf, on the other site because much lesser dmg output because SoS nerf. In PVE this lesser dmg output makes it much more hard to stay alive, because you get much lesser life with life steel. In PVP its not possible to kill an other player with same GS. The dmg output is much to less. And even with 60k life and 2k reg and 10% incoming healing, the other player gets you down. You have no chance to avoid it, except of running away or call for help. With SoS before the patch, you had a good chance to kill him. The only problem was that u could have SoS permanently. But with KV nerf, this is not possible now. So why the SoS nerf?
3) In PVE SoS didn't give much DPS before this patch. I have run a combat tracker and the most DMG came from Guarded Assault. In PVP it was SoS. Why? The reson is that mobs doesn't have that much resistance. With my 24% resistance ignoring Guarded Assault can make its full dmg on the mobs. In PVP there is much more resistance. So Guarded Assault makes less dmg and SoS was the biggest dmg skill in PVP. Because I have 24% resistance ignoring SoS still makes the same dmg in PVE, but in PVP it makes now much much less DMG. So the nerf that SoS can be mitigated now only effects PVP in the end. Nevertheless SoS is useless in PVE now too, because of the no AP gain nerf.
4) Why do you nerf AP gain, and a daily too. Now it takes much longer to get 100% AP. When you finally have it, the daily you have ready now, sucks. Why this double nerf? Totally unnecessary!
Well said brother and grats to beating CS.
Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR
Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
Nope I think it will stay like this. Some TRs still want AP during lurker and they didn't got is so... or maybe it's so glitched and bugged that they took the fast fix... no AP.
- having full AP before SoS even ends and being able to have Steel Defense up 80% of the time
to
- having no AP when SoS ends and having Steel Defense down to something like 20% of up time
Yeah, "moderately".
Also I did not use glyphs or Guarded Assault. I like how Cryptic just makes a change that entirely kills a build without even as much as giving a feat reset and everyone is fine with it.
Oh, and let's not forget that this is yet another change that affected PvE negatively thanks to PvP whining.