My CW has nothing above a rank 7 and he has over 16k GS, it's hardly difficult.
It's not difficult if you don't care about doing stuff correctly.
If you want to be mediocre, then sure, getting 16k gs is easy.
Getting 16K gs by gearing correctly is much harder.
Things changed. This is from someone that hates 2/2 set users and useless stat padding.
Things didn't change.
The best artifacts still provide stats that aren't counted.
The artifact weapon is bugged and gives less GS than it should AND you lose the 2/2 stats.
The only thing that increases GS is the new armor pads (+400), the new boons and the artifact belt. It accounts for something like 600-700 extra GS compared to module 3.
The best artifacts still provide stats that aren't counted.
The artifact weapon is bugged and gives less GS than it should AND you lose the 2/2 stats.
The only thing that increases GS is the new armor pads (+400), the new boons and the artifact belt. It accounts for something like 600-700 extra GS compared to module 3.
So you tell me then why I have 19.5K GS with BiS PvP gear?
- purified set
- gelid wep
- purified off hand
- dominator cloak
- Tenacity rings set
- Int belt
- normal undies
- DC, GWF artis, Vanguard Banner
- all boons
PvE?
- HV set
- same wep, off hand, belt, undies, artifacts
- Ancient Excorcist's Neck of Blessings
- Ring of Sinister Force, Sinister Ring of Infernal Power
18.7k GS... because I use 3 Rank 5s in my PvE setup and no Armor Kits on HV set yet.
Also, no +stat companions.
As you can see, I can be BiS, and have high GS too.
So you tell me then why I have 19.5K GS with BiS PvP gear?
- purified set
- gelid wep
- purified off hand
- dominator cloak
- Tenacity rings set
- Int belt
- normal undies
- DC, GWF artis, Vanguard Banner
- all boons
PvE?
- HV set
- same wep, off hand, belt, undies, artifacts
- Ancient Excorcist's Neck of Blessings
- Ring of Sinister Force, Sinister Ring of Infernal Power
18.7k GS... because I use 3 Rank 5s in my PvE setup and no Armor Kits on HV set yet.
Also, no +stat companions.
As you can see, I can be BiS, and have high GS too.
Things changed.
Your artifact are full of bad pve stats.
I'm willing to bet you have prestidigitation and possibly rank 10 enchants.
Your artifact are full of bad pve stats.
I'm willing to bet you have prestidigitation and possibly rank 10 enchants.
As a Cw who nearly extensively PvPs. I have gone into a multitude of instances and still out dps'd other wizards who are min maxed for PvE. (Interestingly enough, the majority of them have higher offensive stats - most notably in power) - and the excuse I get when I beat them on paingiver is that I am in Rank 10s. Despite the fact that they have better overall stat distribution for Pve. Makes me laugh everytime.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
When you are competing with other high-GS CWs in a party, "top paingiver" really doesn't mean all that much in terms of build or gear, all that measures is who ran fastest ahead of the group and spammed more OF's. So instead of offensive Radiant 10's, use utility Dark 10's. lol
Your artifact are full of bad pve stats.
I'm willing to bet you have prestidigitation and possibly rank 10 enchants.
DC artifact is BiS for PvE.
GWF artifact 350 power/ArP, both useful for PvE. HP is for PvP true (that doesn't make it bad for PvE tho', especially for duo/solo dungeons), but we are talking about CWs in general, right?
Vanguard 350 power, 450 Life steal, both useful for PvE. Again HP is for PvP.
I have about 4-5 rank 10s. No prestidigitation.
I could raise my GS by wearing Waters instead of DC artifact, but because performance is the only important thing and not GS, I don't use that anymore.
The thing is, that for both PvE and PvP in general, the GS for BiS has grown a lot with the last module, especially because of the new boons and the artifact inflation.
I used to laugh at some "PvP" CW a few months ago with Hrimnir and all 10s+2/2 sets just so he can reach 20K GS - didn't help him a bit from getting murdered. But now you can get 20K by simply wearing the best gear for your CW.
PS: I didn't credit card any of my gear. I farmed CN for ages, and invested afterwards/saved for months for the double RP event.
I dont know about the banner, but DC artefact is imo the best PVE artefact. Otherwise, power is a bad stat, how so?
Why do you ask about his enchants? R10= bad player?
DC artifact slot is actually very weak in PvE. It only has one useful stat and the activation effect isn't the best you can find. Yes, it deals a lot of damage but it's not worth losing 2 dps stats for it. Not when you can have something like a lantern of revelation which give way way more damage than a single daily does (the damage boost is for everyone). It also deal a small amount of damage itself
I'm not saying rank 10 = bad player. But when someone is using his credit card to max out everything, it makes him unable to understand the difficulty of maximizing one's gear legitimately.
@xtraordinary91 That's because a lot of CWs are bad. You may think they are min maxed but it is rarely the case. I exclusively pug and the amount of correctly geared CWs I see is something around 1 in 15. Most of them are going either 2 2/4 or pvp gear, which is HAMSTER for pve. There's also a high amounts that use garbage artifacts (waters ie).
Personally, I'm not built to be top dps. I'm built to bring top dps. What I mean is that I use greater plaguefire, I use HV 4/4, lantern of revelation as my active artifact and I'm renegade spec to give everyone permanent combat advantage and a semi random buff.
GWF artifact 350 power/ArP, both useful for PvE. HP is for PvP true (that doesn't make it bad for PvE tho', especially for duo/solo dungeons), but we are talking about CWs in general, right?
Vanguard 350 power, 450 Life steal, both useful for PvE. Again HP is for PvP.
I have about 4-5 rank 10s. No prestidigitation.
I could raise my GS by wearing Waters instead of DC artifact, but because performance is the only important thing and not GS, I don't use that anymore.
The thing is, that for both PvE and PvP in general, the GS for BiS has grown a lot with the last module, especially because of the new boons and the artifact inflation.
I used to laugh at some "PvP" CW a few months ago with Hrimnir and all 10s+2/2 sets just so he can reach 20K GS - didn't help him a bit from getting murdered. But now you can get 20K by simply wearing the best gear for your CW.
GWF is the only legit artifact for pve in there. The other two are just not good. The DC artifact stats are so awful that you lose damage over the 2 minutes compared to anything else. You have a better sudden burst but it's not able to compare to the sustained damage loss. It's great for pvp, terrible for pve.
if you are a BiS cw. u only need 1 350armor pen from an artifact. and thats where the GWF artifact comes into play. stacking another lantern is just a waste, coz u will be over 24pct mitigation.
Jeanne -- 21.8k PvP CW
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
I think dude's smart stating that the DC Arti is not a complete gamechanger in PVE. I believe his actual intention is to convince our beloved devs that it doesn't need a nerf.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited September 2014
I'm not sure how getting an extra daily every 2 minutes is somehow OP. Dailies don't really make up that much of a CW's total damage done. And two out of the three stats on the DC artifact aren't really build for CWs.
And as you get deep into diminishing returns on your stats, there's not going to be a very big performance gap once you start to get north of 17-18k GS. That will diminish as well.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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jmikezMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm not sure how getting an extra daily every 2 minutes is somehow OP. Dailies don't really make up that much of a CW's total damage done. And two out of the three stats on the DC artifact aren't really build for CWs.
And as you get deep into diminishing returns on your stats, there's not going to be a very big performance gap once you start to get north of 17-18k GS. That will diminish as well.
its not OP, its just more efficient in dishing out dps.
the thing with dc artifact is, BiS cw's already have balanced stats. (cw's can easily hit soft caps in offensive stats without even trying) So the only thing that matters is the power stat from the DC artifact (the def stat isnt that bad either). Considering all artifact activates have rubbish damage compared to having another OF, the logical choice is to gravitate towards DC artifact for that extra damage.
Lets take CN as an example. U can precharge your daily before entering a dungeon. so Thats 1 OF. Pull mobs on 1st room, then use daily. Use DC artifact and use it on 2nd room, 2nd OF. and by the time your in the 3rd room, your next daily is ready to be used. 3 OF's in a row. I guarantee you the cw with the dc artifact fully upgraded will be around 500-600k damage ahead of a similarly geared cw (depending on how good the mob pulls are), and the gap only gets worse every 2 min.
If your group is sub 17k gs, then you could argue that lantern wud be a better choice as an artifact activate to help kill mobs faster. Or even maybe a kessels sphere for that extra damage. But at high level GS 20k+ where 1 OF can clear a whole room... There's no better activate than DC artifact.
Another draw that the DC artifact brings is, when it comes to pvp. Having that ice knife in your first rotation is just crucial in taking out your first target.
Jeanne -- 21.8k PvP CW
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
From my perspective (PvP CW that PvEs until Reds/GF are fixed), the DC artifact stats are actually great
Let me explain why.
- Power. Self explanatory. GREAT.
- Defense. Not that good, but it adds to DR for PvP, and it is also useful for PvE, because I run 2 mans, in which I am taking A LOT of punishment. You could easily consider me a tank CW, at my 35-40K HP, 20-30% DR, 15-20% Deflect etc. depending on gear choice.
- Incoming Healing Bonus. This is GREAT. It interacts with my LS, Regen and SF procs. This +inc healing bonus is integral to both my PvP and PvE gamestyle.
To be honest, I kinda miss the Regen from my Waters, but I'm doing fine without it. Power+Inc healing bonus is way better than Regen+Recovery. And for a CW, there's no other choice but DC arti/waters for PvP.
I used to have a Lantern. I fed it without any remorse in either my GWF or Vanguard artifacts.
I dont doubt that, if you gear your character for PvE. Im a PvP player and only focus on PvP stats. And since all PvE content can be cleared with 10k gs in this game, i simply chose not to have an extra set for PvE altho i have HV lying arround in case.
Recovery is the last stats im worried about as a PvP player.
I simply posted a pic of my gearscore and my gear to show OP what gives the 16k+ gs. I have never really cared about GS since i only run with my guild anyway and i dont know what the life on /LFG looks like
It should have been immediately clear that your character is spec'd for PVP w/ 38k HP. Let's compare apples to oranges next
I have no idea how you are gearing if you think that you'll hit armor pen cap with just one artifact with armor pen.
High vizier gives 0 armor pen.
Weapon depends on which artifact weapon you went for, 416 at best.
Off hand gives none.
Amulet gives 154
rings 155 if you don't go for ring of pains
154 from shirt and pants
nothing from belt.
450 from boons.
350 from 1 artifact
That's 1824/2535~ armor pen only. You are still missing 711. Even if you were to give a ioun stone amulet + 2 rings you'd still be 200 short.
You should know that you should never trade power for armor pen so I am really wondering where you fill the gap.
As for the DC artifact, see it this way.
A lantern gives crit, armor pen and combat advantage bonus. Having that 350 extra armor pen means you can lose it elsewhere to gain an equivalent amount of power. Then you are left with crit and combat advantage bonus compared to defense and inc healing bonus, both of which deals no damage.
350 crit should be about 1.5% crit chance (obviously it depends on your current crit rating but it should be close to that). Combat advantage bonus is extremely variant and hard to evaluated as it depends on a lot of factors. If you are able to take advantage of combat advantage, it should be about a 4.5% damage increase during combat advantage, so about a 3% overall damage boost if you have permanent combat advantage. If you don't then you'd need to divide by whatever your combat advantage uptime is.
Overall, you are looking at around 4% more dps from a lantern with permanent combat advantage without factoring the activation. Now, your oppressive force or ice knife need to deals more damage in one shot that that 4% damage would give over 2 minutes. If you were to do 100k damage with one daily, then you'd need to first evaluate how much damage you'd have dealt if you didn't use the artifact and then the daily (about 2 casts of at-will*). Then you take the damage of your daily and substract the damage of the at-will from it. That new number represents the damage done by your artifact. Now, you'd need to see if you'd do more damage than that in a 2 minutes span with the extra stats. In most cases, I'm willing to bet that you'd deal more damage from the stats than the extra daily.
Then come the actual activation of the artifact. Using the lantern only cost one activation compared to two from the DC artifact (use the artifact, then cast the daily). The damage the lantern does is about equal to one at-will damage activation although it can be much more depending on the amount of mobs it hits. Then it gives a 16% damage boost to everyone for 6 seconds. In a party situation, that 16% damage boost to everyone will be very close to the amount of damage one extra daily power would give. Depending on the timing, it might beat or be beaten by the DC artifact when it comes to the 16% extra damage. But then, the extra stats come in and HAMSTER on the DC artifact.
*That was in a situation where you don't even use the activation of the lantern. In a scenario where you use the lantern, cut it to 1 cast of at-will.
Come on guys we all know that pve in this game is a joke. Pve/pvp spec cw can complete the duns NP. You guys are just debating based on paingiver; which is pretty much based on playstyle and latency. I outdpsed a 20k bis cw in CN, that's because I run 2-3 pulls ahead of the party when they arrive, the mobs are all dead. If I play it fairly, I'll be behind in dps of course. The Point is, you don't need to have ridiculous gs to finish duns, but elitism in this game is pretty much pathetic.
StrawberryCheesecake TR BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] CheeseCake House
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jmikezMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Overall, you are looking at around 4% more dps from a lantern with permanent combat advantage without factoring the activation. Now, your oppressive force or ice knife need to deals more damage in one shot that that 4% damage would give over 2 minutes. If you were to do 100k damage with one daily, then you'd need to first evaluate how much damage you'd have dealt if you didn't use the artifact and then the daily (about 2 casts of at-will*). Then you take the damage of your daily and substract the damage of the at-will from it. That new number represents the damage done by your artifact. Now, you'd need to see if you'd do more damage than that in a 2 minutes span with the extra stats. In most cases, I'm willing to bet that you'd deal more damage from the stats than the extra daily.
Then come the actual activation of the artifact. Using the lantern only cost one activation compared to two from the DC artifact (use the artifact, then cast the daily). The damage the lantern does is about equal to one at-will damage activation although it can be much more depending on the amount of mobs it hits. Then it gives a 16% damage boost to everyone for 6 seconds. In a party situation, that 16% damage boost to everyone will be very close to the amount of damage one extra daily power would give. Depending on the timing, it might beat or be beaten by the DC artifact when it comes to the 16% extra damage. But then, the extra stats come in and HAMSTER on the DC artifact.
6 seconds of buff for everyone? what are u going to buff when everything around you is dead from 1 OF? boss fights maybe? which represents 5pct of a dungeon run.
Theres a reason why 99pct of the BiS pve/pvp uses legendary dc artifact. Most of us have tried every artifact out there at legendary, and nothing compares to the damage output dc artifact brings. Maybe when dungeons shift towards non-mob spamming tactics, Then it could probably change. But as for now Dc artifact on pve/pvp cw is BiS
lantern activation damage? are u kidding me? LOL u are going to compare lantern activation damage against a cw with OF, EOTS, Storm spell and 12k+power? and for the record, combat advantage is garbage for end game pve cw's. they can destroy any mobs without using combat advantage. Yes it helps a bit on certain situations, but when you are running a cw with 12k+ power, CA isnt even needed.
and yes i have both artifacts at legendary, and compared both of them, Did tons of runs in CN and VT, and dc artifact is leaps and bounds ahead of lantern when it comes to damage. Dont believe the people that are telling you so? go try it for yourself lol
cant relli argue much, hate to do it over the interwebs. But when u get to BiS status, id be happy to parse a run with u. If your mind is set on lantern. then theres nothing much to talk about here =D
Jeanne -- 21.8k PvP CW
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
I have no idea how you are gearing if you think that you'll hit armor pen cap with just one artifact with armor pen.
High vizier gives 0 armor pen.
Weapon depends on which artifact weapon you went for, 416 at best.
Off hand gives none.
Amulet gives 154
rings 155 if you don't go for ring of pains
154 from shirt and pants
nothing from belt.
450 from boons.
350 from 1 artifact
That's 1824/2535~ armor pen only. You are still missing 711. Even if you were to give a ioun stone amulet + 2 rings you'd still be 200 short.
You should know that you should never trade power for armor pen so I am really wondering where you fill the gap.
well, the above plus 3 or 4 dark enchants will give enough armor pen.
plus, I didn't think CWs actually needed 24% ArP all the time since most of the stuff we hit are trash mobs with less than 24% resistance.
oh and incidentally the Draconic set has a lot of ArPen on it. one of its strengths.
considering that combat advantage damage is a multiplicative effect, it's far from being worthless. Combat advantage + 8k power > 12k power by a very long shot unless you somehow have no charisma CA bonus and 0 combat advantage rating. Otherwise, it's really MUCH more powerful than power alone.
If you kill stuff in 1 OF, then I'd suggest to move on to t2 dungeons at least. Because nothing dies in 1 OF otherwise, it doesn't deal 200k damage to everything.
well, the above plus 3 or 4 dark enchants will give enough armor pen.
plus, I didn't think CWs actually needed 24% ArP all the time since most of the stuff we hit are trash mobs with less than 24% resistance.
Well, the ArP is up to personal preference I suppose but the point is that if you have to use dark enchants, then you are losing on power. Like I said, you shouldn't trade power for armor pen. You should be trading useless stats, recovery or crit for armor pen. Personally, I use lantern, black ice beholder and kessel's spheres of annihilation for artifacts although I'll eventually replace the black ice beholder for the GWF artifact since it is better than it (I didn't know how bad the diminishing returns were on combat advantage rating).
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jmikezMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
considering that combat advantage damage is a multiplicative effect, it's far from being worthless. Combat advantage + 8k power > 12k power by a very long shot unless you somehow have no charisma CA bonus and 0 combat advantage rating. Otherwise, it's really MUCH more powerful than power alone.
oh really? very long shot? lol
do u have 8k power ryt now? im pretti sure u have lanterns already. we can do a run together, any dungeon, your pick. we cud do a CN, since thats where cw's shine the most.
look man, i have nothing against you, but most of the stuff you are saying is garbage. lol. Have u even tried a max out cw? or all u have is theory?
Jeanne -- 21.8k PvP CW
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
Comments
It's not difficult if you don't care about doing stuff correctly.
If you want to be mediocre, then sure, getting 16k gs is easy.
Getting 16K gs by gearing correctly is much harder.
Things changed. This is from someone that hates 2/2 set users and useless stat padding.
Things didn't change.
The best artifacts still provide stats that aren't counted.
The artifact weapon is bugged and gives less GS than it should AND you lose the 2/2 stats.
The only thing that increases GS is the new armor pads (+400), the new boons and the artifact belt. It accounts for something like 600-700 extra GS compared to module 3.
So you tell me then why I have 19.5K GS with BiS PvP gear?
- purified set
- gelid wep
- purified off hand
- dominator cloak
- Tenacity rings set
- Int belt
- normal undies
- DC, GWF artis, Vanguard Banner
- all boons
PvE?
- HV set
- same wep, off hand, belt, undies, artifacts
- Ancient Excorcist's Neck of Blessings
- Ring of Sinister Force, Sinister Ring of Infernal Power
18.7k GS... because I use 3 Rank 5s in my PvE setup and no Armor Kits on HV set yet.
Also, no +stat companions.
As you can see, I can be BiS, and have high GS too.
Things changed.
Your artifact are full of bad pve stats.
I'm willing to bet you have prestidigitation and possibly rank 10 enchants.
I dont know about the banner, but DC artefact is imo the best PVE artefact. Otherwise, power is a bad stat, how so?
Why do you ask about his enchants? R10= bad player?
As a Cw who nearly extensively PvPs. I have gone into a multitude of instances and still out dps'd other wizards who are min maxed for PvE. (Interestingly enough, the majority of them have higher offensive stats - most notably in power) - and the excuse I get when I beat them on paingiver is that I am in Rank 10s. Despite the fact that they have better overall stat distribution for Pve. Makes me laugh everytime.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
DC artifact is BiS for PvE.
GWF artifact 350 power/ArP, both useful for PvE. HP is for PvP true (that doesn't make it bad for PvE tho', especially for duo/solo dungeons), but we are talking about CWs in general, right?
Vanguard 350 power, 450 Life steal, both useful for PvE. Again HP is for PvP.
I have about 4-5 rank 10s. No prestidigitation.
I could raise my GS by wearing Waters instead of DC artifact, but because performance is the only important thing and not GS, I don't use that anymore.
The thing is, that for both PvE and PvP in general, the GS for BiS has grown a lot with the last module, especially because of the new boons and the artifact inflation.
I used to laugh at some "PvP" CW a few months ago with Hrimnir and all 10s+2/2 sets just so he can reach 20K GS - didn't help him a bit from getting murdered. But now you can get 20K by simply wearing the best gear for your CW.
PS: I didn't credit card any of my gear. I farmed CN for ages, and invested afterwards/saved for months for the double RP event.
DC artifact slot is actually very weak in PvE. It only has one useful stat and the activation effect isn't the best you can find. Yes, it deals a lot of damage but it's not worth losing 2 dps stats for it. Not when you can have something like a lantern of revelation which give way way more damage than a single daily does (the damage boost is for everyone). It also deal a small amount of damage itself
I'm not saying rank 10 = bad player. But when someone is using his credit card to max out everything, it makes him unable to understand the difficulty of maximizing one's gear legitimately.
@xtraordinary91 That's because a lot of CWs are bad. You may think they are min maxed but it is rarely the case. I exclusively pug and the amount of correctly geared CWs I see is something around 1 in 15. Most of them are going either 2 2/4 or pvp gear, which is HAMSTER for pve. There's also a high amounts that use garbage artifacts (waters ie).
Personally, I'm not built to be top dps. I'm built to bring top dps. What I mean is that I use greater plaguefire, I use HV 4/4, lantern of revelation as my active artifact and I'm renegade spec to give everyone permanent combat advantage and a semi random buff.
GWF is the only legit artifact for pve in there. The other two are just not good. The DC artifact stats are so awful that you lose damage over the 2 minutes compared to anything else. You have a better sudden burst but it's not able to compare to the sustained damage loss. It's great for pvp, terrible for pve.
mmmm..okie. nothing to do in this thread any longer lol
lol.....ok
No idea if this is a troll statement or what. LOL
if you are a BiS cw. u only need 1 350armor pen from an artifact. and thats where the GWF artifact comes into play. stacking another lantern is just a waste, coz u will be over 24pct mitigation.
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
And as you get deep into diminishing returns on your stats, there's not going to be a very big performance gap once you start to get north of 17-18k GS. That will diminish as well.
its not OP, its just more efficient in dishing out dps.
the thing with dc artifact is, BiS cw's already have balanced stats. (cw's can easily hit soft caps in offensive stats without even trying) So the only thing that matters is the power stat from the DC artifact (the def stat isnt that bad either). Considering all artifact activates have rubbish damage compared to having another OF, the logical choice is to gravitate towards DC artifact for that extra damage.
Lets take CN as an example. U can precharge your daily before entering a dungeon. so Thats 1 OF. Pull mobs on 1st room, then use daily. Use DC artifact and use it on 2nd room, 2nd OF. and by the time your in the 3rd room, your next daily is ready to be used. 3 OF's in a row. I guarantee you the cw with the dc artifact fully upgraded will be around 500-600k damage ahead of a similarly geared cw (depending on how good the mob pulls are), and the gap only gets worse every 2 min.
If your group is sub 17k gs, then you could argue that lantern wud be a better choice as an artifact activate to help kill mobs faster. Or even maybe a kessels sphere for that extra damage. But at high level GS 20k+ where 1 OF can clear a whole room... There's no better activate than DC artifact.
Another draw that the DC artifact brings is, when it comes to pvp. Having that ice knife in your first rotation is just crucial in taking out your first target.
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
Let me explain why.
- Power. Self explanatory. GREAT.
- Defense. Not that good, but it adds to DR for PvP, and it is also useful for PvE, because I run 2 mans, in which I am taking A LOT of punishment. You could easily consider me a tank CW, at my 35-40K HP, 20-30% DR, 15-20% Deflect etc. depending on gear choice.
- Incoming Healing Bonus. This is GREAT. It interacts with my LS, Regen and SF procs. This +inc healing bonus is integral to both my PvP and PvE gamestyle.
To be honest, I kinda miss the Regen from my Waters, but I'm doing fine without it. Power+Inc healing bonus is way better than Regen+Recovery. And for a CW, there's no other choice but DC arti/waters for PvP.
I used to have a Lantern. I fed it without any remorse in either my GWF or Vanguard artifacts.
I don't miss it at all.
It should have been immediately clear that your character is spec'd for PVP w/ 38k HP. Let's compare apples to oranges next
High vizier gives 0 armor pen.
Weapon depends on which artifact weapon you went for, 416 at best.
Off hand gives none.
Amulet gives 154
rings 155 if you don't go for ring of pains
154 from shirt and pants
nothing from belt.
450 from boons.
350 from 1 artifact
That's 1824/2535~ armor pen only. You are still missing 711. Even if you were to give a ioun stone amulet + 2 rings you'd still be 200 short.
You should know that you should never trade power for armor pen so I am really wondering where you fill the gap.
As for the DC artifact, see it this way.
A lantern gives crit, armor pen and combat advantage bonus. Having that 350 extra armor pen means you can lose it elsewhere to gain an equivalent amount of power. Then you are left with crit and combat advantage bonus compared to defense and inc healing bonus, both of which deals no damage.
350 crit should be about 1.5% crit chance (obviously it depends on your current crit rating but it should be close to that). Combat advantage bonus is extremely variant and hard to evaluated as it depends on a lot of factors. If you are able to take advantage of combat advantage, it should be about a 4.5% damage increase during combat advantage, so about a 3% overall damage boost if you have permanent combat advantage. If you don't then you'd need to divide by whatever your combat advantage uptime is.
Overall, you are looking at around 4% more dps from a lantern with permanent combat advantage without factoring the activation. Now, your oppressive force or ice knife need to deals more damage in one shot that that 4% damage would give over 2 minutes. If you were to do 100k damage with one daily, then you'd need to first evaluate how much damage you'd have dealt if you didn't use the artifact and then the daily (about 2 casts of at-will*). Then you take the damage of your daily and substract the damage of the at-will from it. That new number represents the damage done by your artifact. Now, you'd need to see if you'd do more damage than that in a 2 minutes span with the extra stats. In most cases, I'm willing to bet that you'd deal more damage from the stats than the extra daily.
Then come the actual activation of the artifact. Using the lantern only cost one activation compared to two from the DC artifact (use the artifact, then cast the daily). The damage the lantern does is about equal to one at-will damage activation although it can be much more depending on the amount of mobs it hits. Then it gives a 16% damage boost to everyone for 6 seconds. In a party situation, that 16% damage boost to everyone will be very close to the amount of damage one extra daily power would give. Depending on the timing, it might beat or be beaten by the DC artifact when it comes to the 16% extra damage. But then, the extra stats come in and HAMSTER on the DC artifact.
*That was in a situation where you don't even use the activation of the lantern. In a scenario where you use the lantern, cut it to 1 cast of at-will.
the draconic off hand offers 0 power. It should never be used.
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
6 seconds of buff for everyone? what are u going to buff when everything around you is dead from 1 OF? boss fights maybe? which represents 5pct of a dungeon run.
Theres a reason why 99pct of the BiS pve/pvp uses legendary dc artifact. Most of us have tried every artifact out there at legendary, and nothing compares to the damage output dc artifact brings. Maybe when dungeons shift towards non-mob spamming tactics, Then it could probably change. But as for now Dc artifact on pve/pvp cw is BiS
lantern activation damage? are u kidding me? LOL u are going to compare lantern activation damage against a cw with OF, EOTS, Storm spell and 12k+power?
and yes i have both artifacts at legendary, and compared both of them, Did tons of runs in CN and VT, and dc artifact is leaps and bounds ahead of lantern when it comes to damage. Dont believe the people that are telling you so? go try it for yourself lol
cant relli argue much, hate to do it over the interwebs. But when u get to BiS status, id be happy to parse a run with u. If your mind is set on lantern. then theres nothing much to talk about here =D
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
well, the above plus 3 or 4 dark enchants will give enough armor pen.
plus, I didn't think CWs actually needed 24% ArP all the time since most of the stuff we hit are trash mobs with less than 24% resistance.
oh and incidentally the Draconic set has a lot of ArPen on it. one of its strengths.
If you kill stuff in 1 OF, then I'd suggest to move on to t2 dungeons at least. Because nothing dies in 1 OF otherwise, it doesn't deal 200k damage to everything.
Well, the ArP is up to personal preference I suppose but the point is that if you have to use dark enchants, then you are losing on power. Like I said, you shouldn't trade power for armor pen. You should be trading useless stats, recovery or crit for armor pen. Personally, I use lantern, black ice beholder and kessel's spheres of annihilation for artifacts although I'll eventually replace the black ice beholder for the GWF artifact since it is better than it (I didn't know how bad the diminishing returns were on combat advantage rating).
do u have 8k power ryt now? im pretti sure u have lanterns already. we can do a run together, any dungeon, your pick. we cud do a CN, since thats where cw's shine the most.
look man, i have nothing against you, but most of the stuff you are saying is garbage. lol. Have u even tried a max out cw? or all u have is theory?
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
I'm actually a bit higher than 8.3k power right now so yes. Doing a dungeon with you wouldn't show anything because I can't block out my party buffs.
Up and out :cool:
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR