Totally agree with u. Right now i picked fury warlock, and creeping death + dreadtheft is what keeps me alive (im learning how to use the TT too) which is making a good way in this combo. All in all, the idea of nerfing warlock is PATHETIC, at least nerfing (TT and DT is just stupid) people is just stating he is OP for these skills. the rest of skills are unbalanced and are not that ENOUGH POWERFUL to make a stand against Controlwizards. BTW (controlwizards always kill me in pvp).
Once they do something to Tyrannical Threat, that many "offended" CWs want, SW may become an underdog of DPS and then slowly move to the section of "best target dps" which does not even exist. Or of course there is always an option of playing temptation build which makes SW look like somewhat CW's servitor class. (no offense to those who like it, I just hate mages xD)
Time will say, still got my guardian fighter to farm things in any way...
if it gets nerfed any ill just delete mine and write the warlock off ,,,, tyrannical isn't that good unless you know how to use it ,,,, its not overpowered,if they nerf that ,, nerf any GWF daily ,, Cw dailies and frostrays were meant to have more damage at a sacrifice of control , we do the damage wizard do the control ,, its how it should work.
and besides Cws need to quit their whining anyway ,,, they just want it where it was 4 cws one DC again and make this game horrible.
if it gets nerfed any ill just delete mine and write the warlock off ,,,, tyrannical isn't that good unless you know how to use it ,,,, its not overpowered,if they nerf that ,, nerf any GWF daily ,, Cw dailies and frostrays were meant to have more damage at a sacrifice of control , we do the damage wizard do the control ,, its how it should work.
and besides Cws need to quit their whining anyway ,,, they just want it where it was 4 cws one DC again and make this game horrible.
Yeah, if they nerf it they might as well just stop creating new classes and rename the game CW online..
You think mod4 CW can compete with mod3 CW dps and the problem is my lack of gaming knowledge?
According to ACT's damage meter: no...
Can't even compare the two dps!
Probably there is something wrong in your build. Just went in PE and asked some random english speaking CW if he feels that his damage is lower than pre m4. Said that not sure if I troll him as the answer is obvious - "of course not"
But I see your point, keep doing that despite educated people know what the truth is
Probably there is something wrong in your build. Just went in PE and asked some random english speaking CW if he feels that his damage is lower than pre m4. Said that not sure if I troll him as the answer is obvious - "of course not"
But I see your point, keep doing that despite educated people know what the truth is
I think you "education" lacking some basic math skills.
bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
edited September 2014
While i don't want to turn this into a CW vs SW topic, i have to say that the performance of a damage dealer class is not measured in the total damage dealt, it's measured in DPS, and the DPS of a mod 4 CW is ~75% of a mod 3 CW w/ Storm Spell and ~50% w/o it. The total damage is roughly the same in dungeon runs since: 1. dungeons still have the same amount of mobs with the same amount of HP and 2. since the CW is an AoE DPS/CC class, meaning that he's still the one melting the trash.
Some top CWs tested this on Preview. With the right build, rotation, and tactics an SW Thaum is doing around the same amount of AoE DPS as Mod 3 and more ST DPS. They also have a bunch more Control.
I have an MoF Thaum and her DPS in Mod 4 is actually slightly less than in Mod 3 but the extra control more than compensates.
Play your CW right and it will be just as effective as in Mod 3 - arguably MORE effective in some content.
While i don't want to turn this into a CW vs SW topic, i have to say that the performance of a damage dealer class is not measured in the total damage dealt, it's measured in DPS, and the DPS of a mod 4 CW is ~75% of a mod 3 CW w/ Storm Spell and ~50% w/o it. The total damage is roughly the same in dungeon runs since: 1. dungeons still have the same amount of mobs with the same amount of HP and 2. since the CW is an AoE DPS/CC class, meaning that he's still the one melting the trash.
There is no way that my CW is doing HALF the DPS of Mod 3. None whatsoever.
There is no way that my CW is doing HALF the DPS of Mod 3. None whatsoever.
Have you checked with ACT in mod 3 and now? The EncDPS column. You can't guess someone's DPS, that's why there are tools for it. Also, you're a MoF CW, according to your signature, so you prob didn't have 20k+ DPS in mod 3 either.
Some top CWs tested this on Preview. With the right build, rotation, and tactics an SW Thaum is doing around the same amount of AoE DPS as Mod 3 and more ST DPS. They also have a bunch more Control.
I have an MoF Thaum and her DPS in Mod 4 is actually slightly less than in Mod 3 but the extra control more than compensates.
Play your CW right and it will be just as effective as in Mod 3 - arguably MORE effective in some content.
Thats just plain wrong... Cant speak for a Mof Thaum, but for a normal Thaum their damage have been reduced a bit, but we are still king of dps(except some very well geared SW) but now its just with a smaller margin to every1 els:) TBH mod3 shard thaum, were sooo stupidly overpowered it wasnt even funny, shard+etos and u basicly had a aoe spell doing the same damage as ice knife every 15 second:)
My experience is that CW burst dps is down. You can't generate the gigantic hits from shard etc, but you still do roughly the same sustained dps due to stormspell, assailant, etc. You also don't buff everyone else's dps with the old thaum capstone anymore.
My experience is that CW burst dps is down. You can't generate the gigantic hits from shard etc, but you still do roughly the same sustained dps due to stormspell, assailant, etc. You also don't buff everyone else's dps with the old thaum capstone anymore.
This is the point I've been trying to make. Burst is reduced (although the 100% crit from EotS buffed it back up a bit) but sustained is similar.
Have you checked with ACT in mod 3 and now? The EncDPS column. You can't guess someone's DPS, that's why there are tools for it. Also, you're a MoF CW, according to your signature, so you prob didn't have 20k+ DPS in mod 3 either.
I don't have ACT parses stored from Mod 3 (or at least I don't think so) but unless they also halved the HP of all mobs in the game I am not doing 50% less DPS.
And yes, MoF was less affected as the nerf was mainly to burst DPS and MoF is not a burst DPS class. But MoF and SS sustained DPS was not so hugely different in Mod 3 and I haven't seen a sudden move to playing MoF in Mod 4 so SS must still be comparable or superior.
Probably there is something wrong in your build. Just went in PE and asked some random english speaking CW if he feels that his damage is lower than pre m4. Said that not sure if I troll him as the answer is obvious - "of course not"
But I see your point, keep doing that despite educated people know what the truth is
as you said in previous post you hate cw , you dont even know what your talking about lol and you think the answer from this random pug guy is enuf to say thats this is the truth lol??
here is the truth , during cn runs with my guild my meatballs were critting for 120k , sudden storm for 200k and chilling strike for 150k ,+eots ALWAYS active, just remember , these are AOE.
we were able to kill cn 4th boss in a minute,do this remind you any daily???? (TT) killing the boss in few seconds...lol cw got nerfed , and you also will
for those argueing about mod3 vs mod 4 cw , please use ACT before posting anything
Killing a boss with TT in a minute? only around 2 or 3 bosses, NOT all of them. Bosses need at least 2 mobs on their side so TT can work and they normally summon mobs when half their HP; so at this point TT is not helpful at all. Other classes still do the most damage. When hitting bosses i do flames of pleghretos, cause is way too better. TT is only good for FEW bosses and totally the best for clearing dungeons. Stop complaining about nerfing TT, it's not gonna happen since there is not any bug or Overpowered stuff in warlock class. And it's actually the opposite. 60% of warlocks skills are GARBAGE, i only find useful: killing flames - DT - TT- flames of pleghretos (or whatever spelled) - warlock bargain - fierybolt - vampiric embrace (only for temptation). The rest is added garbage to fill a class. If they nerf TT, they will have to BUFF all warlock's skills as an exchange. U are just complaining because TT "steals" 50% of your damage to benefit warlocks' final damage result.
Tell me where developpers stated they are gonna nerf TT?
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
as you said in previous post you hate cw , you dont even know what your talking about lol and you think the answer from this random pug guy is enuf to say thats this is the truth lol??
here is the truth , during cn runs with my guild my meatballs were critting for 120k , sudden storm for 200k and chilling strike for 150k ,+eots ALWAYS active, just remember , these are AOE.
we were able to kill cn 4th boss in a minute,do this remind you any daily???? (TT) killing the boss in few seconds...lol cw got nerfed , and you also will
for those argueing about mod3 vs mod 4 cw , please use ACT before posting anything
Here is the issue, they created DD's to take 4-5 k less gear score then the average team can easily post now, so "SUPRISE" that what you say is true, I am not. So instead of releasing harder content, or revamping dd's to come up to todays average gear score (AVG gear score on DDs should = 13k probably) they just will continue to nerf hard earned rotations, skills powers.
Sadly, as power creep continues, the ones hit hardest will be new players, who have to deal with time grinding, ad advancement and gearing out. PVP is pretty much out of reach now honestly.. unless you either exploit, buy from black market or are truly the 1% who can dish out 2k in US funds to buy your way into the club.
The game is going to fast, tailspin fast right now.
ur right.....dunno if its only me but it looks like they want us to use real money in this game , its nearly imposible to make a daily profit with the new mod content , and now CN is worthless.....i dont want to do splitruns anymore for a 70k ring salvage belt-salvage amulet and a wonderfull tank offhand 60k ......they destroyed the only dongeon that were actually profitable.....thats sad , im waiting for the mod 5 and if its , grind only and bad loot , like 1/10000000000000 chance to get a gem/belt....ill leave this game
what would really help is , a ''new'' CN with similar drops (t2,5) but with the dificulty of the new skirmish(ever harder)cuz right now , to make money u need crazy luck, belt , gem ,boon book, or one of the main sets part from a t2 dongeon....wich rarely happen
id be so discouraged if i was a NEW player....id have like 5h of daily grinding evryday and no time to make AD , i would have to buy zen , neverwinter win''
So the gist of these argument is solely on WHO has the highest "DPS" right?
that pertains to the TOP 1 "PAIN GIVER!" the most important thing in the run! yeah?
Isn't it good to finish the dungeon fast?
I can't outdps a well geared SW in eLoL but I don't mind at all, the run feels smoother when I'm focus more on controlling and letting the sw curse the mobs to death.
StrawberryCheesecake TR BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] CheeseCake House
Here is the issue, they created DD's to take 4-5 k less gear score then the average team can easily post now, so "SUPRISE" that what you say is true, I am not. So instead of releasing harder content, or revamping dd's to come up to todays average gear score (AVG gear score on DDs should = 13k probably) they just will continue to nerf hard earned rotations, skills powers.
You simply can't do that because new players don't have those gear scores. It takes a long time to get all those boons and artifacts to legendary that give those inflated gear scores. If you think the content is too easy, don't use artifacts and don't get the new boons. Simple as that. But don't expect all the dungeons to be made harder just for you because new players will not be able to play the game.
For every 1 player with a 15k+ GS there are 20+ with only 10K. Try queueing up for a pug sometime and you will see.
the game now is almost fixed as its fun to play any class on pve... BUT...
As a player mainly using SW since release, TT is reflecting other players damage to your personal gain, it is too OP, and it is sure not working as intended, simply put, ifyou use TT on the right time you will outdps everything, you dont need gs/weapon power/enchantments, you need nothing, if you put TT on a correct moment you will benefit from the damage of every single one in the party.
It feels cheap, no skill needed. you hit the button first and even the other SW way better equipped FURY build than you (whatever paragon) will do damage for you and you will outdps everyone.
It is great for fast dungeon runs, but CW and SW should have their extremely powerfull spells fixed and TT is the only power on SW that really needs to be fixed (apart from absurd ap gain from mof and storm spell damage procs from spellstorm cw).
Probably should see the hr combat too but there are much more competent people to talk about hr than me.
ON the other hand, they should fix our marks being vanish in seconds and fury capstone not stacking from other necrtotic damage powers like blades of vanquish armies and dreadtheft(when on a perma curse mode warlocks bargain/tt).
SW have nothing to compete with gigantic dps from the CW and their by the minute Opressive force no target limit powers. at least remove cap from Blades and fiery bolt or at the very least double it.
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bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
edited September 2014
What i would like to see done to TT is to credit the damage where it's due, just like rimefire does, the damage is credited to the CW that activated it and not the CW who prepared it. That way it can remain just as powerful as it is, without everyone crying because of it, since the result of crying is usually a huge nerf, and i'd hate to see TT nerfed into uselessness in mod 5 or 6.
This is the point I've been trying to make. Burst is reduced (although the 100% crit from EotS buffed it back up a bit) but sustained is similar.
yes i agree with this as it is allowing other classes to squeeze in more dps of there own and balance it a bit more. I still do think CW would still need to get either some more burst nerfed or just fixing target caps on the broken spells so they are a more balanced class in regards with the rest. Something like once the typical 5 target cap is reached in a spell start dividing the damage amongs the rest of the affected monsters but keeping the control property. Lets say a steal time does 50k to 5 targets, if u have 10 it does 25k to each but still stiuns them all..... so bunching up half a dungeon of mobs isnt effective anymore.
as for TT i like it as it is and is a very nice addition to a party, its pretty op but also situational as its not that usefull in true single target. I think it just needs a slight toning down and giving credit where its due in the dps charts to stop the whining.
Comments
Do you need only one Fury Warlock or more to do it this way? I'm just curious (I run a Temptation and never tried it this way).
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Time will say, still got my guardian fighter to farm things in any way...
WTB Class Reroll please
and besides Cws need to quit their whining anyway ,,, they just want it where it was 4 cws one DC again and make this game horrible.
~Vladimar Zul - Fury build SW ~
~Takadump onzcrapper - Iron vangaurd GF~
Yeah, if they nerf it they might as well just stop creating new classes and rename the game CW online..
I know some CW "protectors" that have 8 CWs on their accounts and not a single char of other class
WTB Class Reroll please
You think mod4 CW can compete with mod3 CW dps and the problem is my lack of gaming knowledge?
According to ACT's damage meter: no...
Can't even compare the two dps!
But I see your point, keep doing that despite educated people know what the truth is
WTB Class Reroll please
HTH
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I think you "education" lacking some basic math skills.
Not on your arguement!
/10char
I have an MoF Thaum and her DPS in Mod 4 is actually slightly less than in Mod 3 but the extra control more than compensates.
Play your CW right and it will be just as effective as in Mod 3 - arguably MORE effective in some content.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Have you checked with ACT in mod 3 and now? The EncDPS column. You can't guess someone's DPS, that's why there are tools for it. Also, you're a MoF CW, according to your signature, so you prob didn't have 20k+ DPS in mod 3 either.
Thats just plain wrong... Cant speak for a Mof Thaum, but for a normal Thaum their damage have been reduced a bit, but we are still king of dps(except some very well geared SW) but now its just with a smaller margin to every1 els:) TBH mod3 shard thaum, were sooo stupidly overpowered it wasnt even funny, shard+etos and u basicly had a aoe spell doing the same damage as ice knife every 15 second:)
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
And yes, MoF was less affected as the nerf was mainly to burst DPS and MoF is not a burst DPS class. But MoF and SS sustained DPS was not so hugely different in Mod 3 and I haven't seen a sudden move to playing MoF in Mod 4 so SS must still be comparable or superior.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
as you said in previous post you hate cw , you dont even know what your talking about lol and you think the answer from this random pug guy is enuf to say thats this is the truth lol??
here is the truth , during cn runs with my guild my meatballs were critting for 120k , sudden storm for 200k and chilling strike for 150k ,+eots ALWAYS active, just remember , these are AOE.
we were able to kill cn 4th boss in a minute,do this remind you any daily???? (TT) killing the boss in few seconds...lol cw got nerfed , and you also will
for those argueing about mod3 vs mod 4 cw , please use ACT before posting anything
Tell me where developpers stated they are gonna nerf TT?
Here is the issue, they created DD's to take 4-5 k less gear score then the average team can easily post now, so "SUPRISE" that what you say is true, I am not. So instead of releasing harder content, or revamping dd's to come up to todays average gear score (AVG gear score on DDs should = 13k probably) they just will continue to nerf hard earned rotations, skills powers.
Sadly, as power creep continues, the ones hit hardest will be new players, who have to deal with time grinding, ad advancement and gearing out. PVP is pretty much out of reach now honestly.. unless you either exploit, buy from black market or are truly the 1% who can dish out 2k in US funds to buy your way into the club.
The game is going to fast, tailspin fast right now.
what would really help is , a ''new'' CN with similar drops (t2,5) but with the dificulty of the new skirmish(ever harder)cuz right now , to make money u need crazy luck, belt , gem ,boon book, or one of the main sets part from a t2 dongeon....wich rarely happen
id be so discouraged if i was a NEW player....id have like 5h of daily grinding evryday and no time to make AD , i would have to buy zen , neverwinter win''
that pertains to the TOP 1 "PAIN GIVER!" the most important thing in the run! yeah?
Isn't it good to finish the dungeon fast?
I can't outdps a well geared SW in eLoL but I don't mind at all, the run feels smoother when I'm focus more on controlling and letting the sw curse the mobs to death.
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
You simply can't do that because new players don't have those gear scores. It takes a long time to get all those boons and artifacts to legendary that give those inflated gear scores. If you think the content is too easy, don't use artifacts and don't get the new boons. Simple as that. But don't expect all the dungeons to be made harder just for you because new players will not be able to play the game.
For every 1 player with a 15k+ GS there are 20+ with only 10K. Try queueing up for a pug sometime and you will see.
As a player mainly using SW since release, TT is reflecting other players damage to your personal gain, it is too OP, and it is sure not working as intended, simply put, ifyou use TT on the right time you will outdps everything, you dont need gs/weapon power/enchantments, you need nothing, if you put TT on a correct moment you will benefit from the damage of every single one in the party.
It feels cheap, no skill needed. you hit the button first and even the other SW way better equipped FURY build than you (whatever paragon) will do damage for you and you will outdps everyone.
It is great for fast dungeon runs, but CW and SW should have their extremely powerfull spells fixed and TT is the only power on SW that really needs to be fixed (apart from absurd ap gain from mof and storm spell damage procs from spellstorm cw).
Probably should see the hr combat too but there are much more competent people to talk about hr than me.
ON the other hand, they should fix our marks being vanish in seconds and fury capstone not stacking from other necrtotic damage powers like blades of vanquish armies and dreadtheft(when on a perma curse mode warlocks bargain/tt).
SW have nothing to compete with gigantic dps from the CW and their by the minute Opressive force no target limit powers. at least remove cap from Blades and fiery bolt or at the very least double it.
yes i agree with this as it is allowing other classes to squeeze in more dps of there own and balance it a bit more. I still do think CW would still need to get either some more burst nerfed or just fixing target caps on the broken spells so they are a more balanced class in regards with the rest. Something like once the typical 5 target cap is reached in a spell start dividing the damage amongs the rest of the affected monsters but keeping the control property. Lets say a steal time does 50k to 5 targets, if u have 10 it does 25k to each but still stiuns them all..... so bunching up half a dungeon of mobs isnt effective anymore.
as for TT i like it as it is and is a very nice addition to a party, its pretty op but also situational as its not that usefull in true single target. I think it just needs a slight toning down and giving credit where its due in the dps charts to stop the whining.