The root of all the QQ is people got used to seeing a cw in pvp, and thinking AH free kill.
Now they don't always get the free kill and are upset that they might bite off more than they can chew attacking cw and just charging streight at them.
So they group up and still kill CW, but it somehow doesn't feel as good to need two to do what one could before.
The CW's like not just being a target dummy / free kill.
Naturally there is gonna be friction.
BTW, It still feels like I'm being yanked around on a string, and forced to play one cookie cutter mold, and then watch that one wiped away, and the next one come along.
Kinda like OK, spend AD and re-spec about once a week. Oh and spend that week figuring out how to manage without the tools you had, and don't expect new ones. Ya know just adapt and do less, and die more, and help parties less and let them fuss cause you can't keep the mobs off them while they beat it to death.
Solo, well it's easy enough that you can semi kite and still kill stuff with minimal control, but if others are depending on you, they need to be ready to kite and pop potions too.
First I don't give a **** about PVP. Dodgeable, nondodgeable, whatever. As far as I'm concerned, all of the PVPers coming to this forum whining about non-dodgeable Icy Rays are agenda-driven complainers who want CWs to be little more than punching bags and will put forth any dishonest argument possible until that is achieved.
But CWs ought to have something that roots targets because that is part of its job as a controller.
In the Tuern skirmish I often use Icy Rays in the final fight to quickly lock down one of the drakes (when it is not in its immune phase) so that it stays in place, at least temporarily, while the rest of us are able to wear it down. Those drakes are fairly dangerous, its charge attack can easily take half the health of a squishy player.
That is what Icy Rays is intended to be used for. By a CW in its role as a controller.
If you want Icy Rays nerfed, what you are saying is that you don't want CWs to do their jobs as controllers. Given the freeze changes, demanded by the PVP whiners, you don't want them to be able to freeze mobs either. And you of course certainly don't want CWs to do DPS (that's not fair to everyone else!!!! or something). So how do you want them to control mobs? By sternly worded letters?
If you don't care about PvP then this thread doesn't matter to you because he wants to make it dodgable not sure if mobs can dodge
Why is it always the PvPers who QQ about CW's being "OP IN PVP"??? Always the same names, too. Why does it have to affect my play in PvE? I don't want that. I don't want to spend months seeking equipment, building up specific set of enchantments, earning AD only so that one day a guy like you who play PvP exclusively, qq on the forum about nerfing the CW. Why do you ruin the game?
It's called CONTROL WIZARD for a reason. Take out that and what you have? Whenever I do play PvP (to get to the dungeons with many bugs in GG and constant and expected crashes) I rarely kill anything, I don't have the DPS to kill a thing there. All I can, as a CW, is to put a shield and pray to grab a kill by using my actual skill and magic at my disposal. Not even with Icy Knife may I do that because it's very, very, very, very easy to kill a CW in PvP. In fact, as a CW, I seek another CW because not even once did I kill any tankier build without a group. That happened 0 times, mister troll.
Not even in my dreams do I dare to attack a GWF or a GF, less a TR or HR, so kindly gtfo with your QQing. People like you are ruining this game simply because you want to kill extremely squishy CW which you probably do most of the times, but you probably just hate to see the skill that most CW's have in PvE.
To the Cryptic developers, if you read this by any chance and I sincerely hope that you do
Stop nerfing CW for us who play PvE
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited September 2014
Complaining on the forums in order to get another class nerfed is just part of the age-old PvP metagame.
Why is it always the PvPers who QQ about CW's being "OP IN PVP"??? Always the same names, too. Why does it have to affect my play in PvE? I don't want that. I don't want to spend months seeking equipment, building up specific set of enchantments, earning AD only so that one day a guy like you who play PvP exclusively, qq on the forum about nerfing the CW. Why do you ruin the game?
It's called CONTROL WIZARD for a reason. Take out that and what you have? Whenever I do play PvP (to get to the dungeons with many bugs in GG and constant and expected crashes) I rarely kill anything, I don't have the DPS to kill a thing there. All I can, as a CW, is to put a shield and pray to grab a kill by using my actual skill and magic at my disposal. Not even with Icy Knife may I do that because it's very, very, very, very easy to kill a CW in PvP. In fact, as a CW, I seek another CW because not even once did I kill any tankier build without a group. That happened 0 times, mister troll.
Not even in my dreams do I dare to attack a GWF or a GF, less a TR or HR, so kindly gtfo with your QQing. People like you are ruining this game simply because you want to kill extremely squishy CW which you probably do most of the times, but you probably just hate to see the skill that most CW's have in PvE.
To the Cryptic developers, if you read this by any chance and I sincerely hope that you do
Stop nerfing CW for us who play PvE
Making icy rays dodgable does in no way affect you in PvE so did you just find this thread and cry about how it affects you (when you probably don't even use it) because it was in The Library? If you PvE then making the rays dodgable does not affect you unless of course mobs can dodge now idk..
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2014
I can name at least 2 abilities to counter the root in icy rays for each class besides of clerics. HRs even have 3 abilities at hand.
All I can say is L2P. ;-)
Only clerics need some buffs in PvP, just look at the leaderboard. All classes are present on page 1, even the so 'weak' TRs.
Are you nuts? Takedown and flourish are dodgable. The damage from SE and WOB is undodgable but there's no CC component to them and they're dailies.
All CC in the game is dodgable except Icy Rays.
Flourish and Crescendo CC effects are NOT dodgeable. Same with the damage of the two TRs dailies (and damage effects of dailies can be large), what the other poster meant.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Flourish and Crescendo CC effects are NOT dodgeable. Same with the damage of the two TRs dailies (and damage effects of dailies can be large), what the other poster meant.
They are infact dodgable. Florish CC effect is dodgable, the only thing that could you depending on when you dodge (and the class) is the last couple of hits of the flourish. The only stun of flourish is the last hit only when feated.
Crescendo is Fully Dodgable. Cresendo actually hits with CC twice. The first is a complete stun. The last hit is the prone. If you dodge the first hit. You're free to move around, and if you move far enough, the entire ability just stops. IF the attack is still going, you can dodge right out of the last hit. Meaning you didnt get hit at all while the GWF sword dances around you hitting air.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
They are infact dodgable. Florish CC effect is dodgable, the only thing that could you depending on when you dodge (and the class) is the last couple of hits of the flourish. The only stun of flourish is the last hit only when feated.
Crescendo is Fully Dodgable. Cresendo actually hits with CC twice. The first is a complete stun. The last hit is the prone. If you dodge the first hit. You're free to move around, and if you move far enough, the entire ability just stops. IF the attack is still going, you can dodge right out of the last hit. Meaning you didnt get hit at all while the GWF sword dances around you hitting air.
Perhaps the confusion comes because it behaves differently for different classes. At least what I see on my CW is: When my opponent is using flourish in my dodge window, I get no damage (it says 'dodge' or 'immune' or somthing like that), yet I am rooted for the entire animation of this ability, this means I did not dodge the CC effect.
With crescendo it is the same: When this is used during my dodge window I receive 'dodge' infos on my screen during the first animation, yet I am rooted (can not move) and proned. I can not confirm that I am able to move around.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I can name at least 2 abilities to counter the root in icy rays for each class besides of clerics. HRs even have 3 abilities at hand.
All I can say is L2P. ;-)
Only clerics need some buffs in PvP, just look at the leaderboard. All classes are present on page 1, even the so 'weak' TRs.
Flourish and Crescendo CC effects are NOT dodgeable. Same with the damage of the two TRs dailies (and damage effects of dailies can be large), what the other poster meant.
I would like to know the 3 for the HR
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
First you have the option to use disruptive shot against the CW, so he cant cast any succeding spell - if you are successful. If you dont have this ready and your opponent is in range, you simply use boar charge and woops you charge out of the root cc. Third, if your opponent is far away and are usually preparing a hard hitting spell, you can use fox cunning to dodge the next ability (regardless if you are rooted or not). And finally I have seen HRs who use frequently the artifact of free movement to get out of it.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
First you have the option to use disruptive shot against the CW, so he cant cast any succeding spell - if you are successful. If you dont have this ready and your opponent is in range, you simply use boar charge and woops you charge out of the root cc. Third, if your opponent is far away and are usually preparing a hard hitting spell, you can use fox cunning to dodge the next ability (regardless if you are rooted or not). And finally I have seen HRs who use frequently the artifact of free movement to get out of it.
The last one is not a HR ability...... Icy Rays is undodgable so fox cunning nor a dodge would work.... and If the CW actually has a little skill they'll use their CC to escape from the HR then icy rays or they'll icy rays while they see the HR coming making boars and fox useless
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
and If the CW actually has a little skill they'll use their CC to escape from the HR then icy rays or they'll icy rays while they see the HR coming making boars and fox useless
If the CW has little skill expect that you need some little skill as well....
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
The last one is not a HR ability...... Icy Rays is undodgable so fox cunning nor a dodge would work.... and If the CW actually has a little skill they'll use their CC to escape from the HR then icy rays or they'll icy rays while they see the HR coming making boars and fox useless
HR's can dodge Icy Rays with Foxes, Mara Escape and Mara Rush (If timed properly)
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Neither Mara's will dodge Icy Rays. They still get rooted. Just positioned differently.
Fox Cunning doesnt dodge it. Fox Shift negates it because of CC immunity specifically and only if timed just right at the exact second the beams hit.
Yes, both Maras can Dodge Icy Rays. The HR needs to time it to perfection and it is not easy to pull off.
Both Mara Rush and Mara Escape have a small window at the end of the animation that is treated as a stealth, if Icy Rays lands within that window, it will not do any damage, and it will not root them as well.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Yes, both Maras can Dodge Icy Rays. The HR needs to time it to perfection and it is not easy to pull off.
Both Mara Rush and Mara Escape have a small window at the end of the animation that is treated as a stealth, if Icy Rays lands within that window, it will not do any damage, and it will not root them as well.
It was a 4th option :rolleyes:
Fox cunning works in root and can be used to counter the root as I have described
If the CW has little skill expect that you need some little skill as well....
So basically you're saying that it's impossible for HRs to dodge icy rays but they can escape the rays using boars charge or fox shift if the CW was close enough.... Or they can time travel ahead of time to see when the CW is about to cast it, then time travel back in time to hit a perfect disruptive shot between the 0.005-0.01 of casting the mark and casting the rays so that it goes on cool down. That's does not require a little bit of skill it requires A LOT OF SKILL where as casting rays when you're far away from your target requires little skill. Of course I can use that time travel machine I was telling you about, to travel ahead in time so I can find out when the CW is about to cast icy rays so that I can then travel back in time to cast maurarders escape/rush 1 second before icy rays so that it has a chance of hitting my character on that so called "stealth frame" and dodge it (giving the dude that said maurarders can dodge it the benefit of the doubt here)
So basically you're saying that it's impossible for HRs to dodge icy rays but they can escape the rays using boars charge or fox shift if the CW was close enough.... Or they can time travel ahead of time to see when the CW is about to cast it, then time travel back in time to hit a perfect disruptive shot between the 0.005-0.01 of casting the mark and casting the rays so that it goes on cool down. That's does not require a little bit of skill it requires A LOT OF SKILL where as casting rays when you're far away from your target requires little skill. Of course I can use that time travel machine I was telling you about, to travel ahead in time so I can find out when the CW is about to cast icy rays so that I can then travel back in time to cast maurarders escape/rush 1 second before icy rays so that it has a chance of hitting my character on that so called "stealth frame" and dodge it (giving the dude that said maurarders can dodge it the benefit of the doubt here)
sorry bro, but you make your class sound too skillful to play. we all know disruptive shot hits targets immediatly and is especially brutal against CW's which have the slowest cast speeds of all classes ( for icy rays you even need to press the same encounter button twice before it goes off), and if your class is so skillful, then why does 50% of your damage come from piercing blade, a feat that is completely unresistable damage,
although, sure allow icy rays to be dodgeable and make it so HR's can no longer break out of it with both marauders abilitys + immune out of it with fox shift + break out of it with boars charge (and you will come right back begging for it to be reverted)+ GF's break out of it with threatening rush that they can spam + GWFs break out of it with threatenining rush oh and while we are at it. the text under the icy rays duration bar says "root" so it should be classified as a root, which is you cant move, you cant cast so lets add that to icy rays also if we want to make it working as intended!
Icy rays is the only thing HR's really have to worry about with on a cw, and even then its not a massive issue, so next time please don't add to the pools of Q.Q and actually come up with some constructive ideas
So basically you're saying that it's impossible for HRs to dodge icy rays but they can escape the rays using boars charge or fox shift if the CW was close enough....
Or they can time travel ahead of time to see when the CW is about to cast it, then time travel back in time to hit a perfect disruptive shot between the 0.005-0.01 of casting the mark and casting the rays so that it goes on cool down. That's does not require a little bit of skill it requires A LOT OF SKILL where as casting rays when you're far away from your target requires little skill. Of course I can use that time travel machine I was telling you about, to travel ahead in time so I can find out when the CW is about to cast icy rays so that I can then travel back in time to cast maurarders escape/rush 1 second before icy rays so that it has a chance of hitting my character on that so called "stealth frame" and dodge it (giving the dude that said maurarders can dodge it the benefit of the doubt here)
Foxes Cunning only dodges damage, not CC. Fox Shift might work as there are invulnerability frames during the animation.
I was explaining how to counter the root (=cc effect). The OP of this thread - who apparently stopped posting some time ago - started this because he felt that the impossibility to avoid the CC is a problem. And I explained in my previous post that that this is not a problem, because there a counters. What you and others apparently want is the easy way: to shift around randomly to avoid all damage/CC.
And other people explained options how to avoid getting rooted in the first place. Anyways, I am not going to bumb this qq-thread anymore.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Comments
Now they don't always get the free kill and are upset that they might bite off more than they can chew attacking cw and just charging streight at them.
So they group up and still kill CW, but it somehow doesn't feel as good to need two to do what one could before.
The CW's like not just being a target dummy / free kill.
Naturally there is gonna be friction.
BTW, It still feels like I'm being yanked around on a string, and forced to play one cookie cutter mold, and then watch that one wiped away, and the next one come along.
Kinda like OK, spend AD and re-spec about once a week. Oh and spend that week figuring out how to manage without the tools you had, and don't expect new ones. Ya know just adapt and do less, and die more, and help parties less and let them fuss cause you can't keep the mobs off them while they beat it to death.
Solo, well it's easy enough that you can semi kite and still kill stuff with minimal control, but if others are depending on you, they need to be ready to kite and pop potions too.
Deal?
I say we do this for all the classes since it's just that fair
If you don't care about PvP then this thread doesn't matter to you because he wants to make it dodgable not sure if mobs can dodge
It's called CONTROL WIZARD for a reason. Take out that and what you have? Whenever I do play PvP (to get to the dungeons with many bugs in GG and constant and expected crashes) I rarely kill anything, I don't have the DPS to kill a thing there. All I can, as a CW, is to put a shield and pray to grab a kill by using my actual skill and magic at my disposal. Not even with Icy Knife may I do that because it's very, very, very, very easy to kill a CW in PvP. In fact, as a CW, I seek another CW because not even once did I kill any tankier build without a group. That happened 0 times, mister troll.
Not even in my dreams do I dare to attack a GWF or a GF, less a TR or HR, so kindly gtfo with your QQing. People like you are ruining this game simply because you want to kill extremely squishy CW which you probably do most of the times, but you probably just hate to see the skill that most CW's have in PvE.
To the Cryptic developers, if you read this by any chance and I sincerely hope that you do
Stop nerfing CW for us who play PvE
Making icy rays dodgable does in no way affect you in PvE so did you just find this thread and cry about how it affects you (when you probably don't even use it) because it was in The Library? If you PvE then making the rays dodgable does not affect you unless of course mobs can dodge now idk..
All I can say is L2P. ;-)
Only clerics need some buffs in PvP, just look at the leaderboard. All classes are present on page 1, even the so 'weak' TRs.
Flourish and Crescendo CC effects are NOT dodgeable. Same with the damage of the two TRs dailies (and damage effects of dailies can be large), what the other poster meant.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
They are infact dodgable. Florish CC effect is dodgable, the only thing that could you depending on when you dodge (and the class) is the last couple of hits of the flourish. The only stun of flourish is the last hit only when feated.
Crescendo is Fully Dodgable. Cresendo actually hits with CC twice. The first is a complete stun. The last hit is the prone. If you dodge the first hit. You're free to move around, and if you move far enough, the entire ability just stops. IF the attack is still going, you can dodge right out of the last hit. Meaning you didnt get hit at all while the GWF sword dances around you hitting air.
Perhaps the confusion comes because it behaves differently for different classes. At least what I see on my CW is: When my opponent is using flourish in my dodge window, I get no damage (it says 'dodge' or 'immune' or somthing like that), yet I am rooted for the entire animation of this ability, this means I did not dodge the CC effect.
With crescendo it is the same: When this is used during my dodge window I receive 'dodge' infos on my screen during the first animation, yet I am rooted (can not move) and proned. I can not confirm that I am able to move around.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I would like to know the 3 for the HR
First you have the option to use disruptive shot against the CW, so he cant cast any succeding spell - if you are successful. If you dont have this ready and your opponent is in range, you simply use boar charge and woops you charge out of the root cc. Third, if your opponent is far away and are usually preparing a hard hitting spell, you can use fox cunning to dodge the next ability (regardless if you are rooted or not). And finally I have seen HRs who use frequently the artifact of free movement to get out of it.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
The last one is not a HR ability...... Icy Rays is undodgable so fox cunning nor a dodge would work.... and If the CW actually has a little skill they'll use their CC to escape from the HR then icy rays or they'll icy rays while they see the HR coming making boars and fox useless
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
HR's can dodge Icy Rays with Foxes, Mara Escape and Mara Rush (If timed properly)
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Neither Mara's will dodge Icy Rays. They still get rooted. Just positioned differently.
Fox Cunning doesnt dodge it. Fox Shift negates it because of CC immunity specifically and only if timed just right at the exact second the beams hit.
Yes, both Maras can Dodge Icy Rays. The HR needs to time it to perfection and it is not easy to pull off.
Both Mara Rush and Mara Escape have a small window at the end of the animation that is treated as a stealth, if Icy Rays lands within that window, it will not do any damage, and it will not root them as well.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Video of you doing it
So basically you're saying that it's impossible for HRs to dodge icy rays but they can escape the rays using boars charge or fox shift if the CW was close enough.... Or they can time travel ahead of time to see when the CW is about to cast it, then time travel back in time to hit a perfect disruptive shot between the 0.005-0.01 of casting the mark and casting the rays so that it goes on cool down. That's does not require a little bit of skill it requires A LOT OF SKILL where as casting rays when you're far away from your target requires little skill. Of course I can use that time travel machine I was telling you about, to travel ahead in time so I can find out when the CW is about to cast icy rays so that I can then travel back in time to cast maurarders escape/rush 1 second before icy rays so that it has a chance of hitting my character on that so called "stealth frame" and dodge it (giving the dude that said maurarders can dodge it the benefit of the doubt here)
sorry bro, but you make your class sound too skillful to play. we all know disruptive shot hits targets immediatly and is especially brutal against CW's which have the slowest cast speeds of all classes ( for icy rays you even need to press the same encounter button twice before it goes off), and if your class is so skillful, then why does 50% of your damage come from piercing blade, a feat that is completely unresistable damage,
although, sure allow icy rays to be dodgeable and make it so HR's can no longer break out of it with both marauders abilitys + immune out of it with fox shift + break out of it with boars charge (and you will come right back begging for it to be reverted)+ GF's break out of it with threatening rush that they can spam + GWFs break out of it with threatenining rush oh and while we are at it. the text under the icy rays duration bar says "root" so it should be classified as a root, which is you cant move, you cant cast so lets add that to icy rays also if we want to make it working as intended!
Icy rays is the only thing HR's really have to worry about with on a cw, and even then its not a massive issue, so next time please don't add to the pools of Q.Q and actually come up with some constructive ideas
Seeing that I am the CW that see it happen against particular Hrs I will see what I can do.
But I thoroughly recommend you look up @ralexinor and look at how she does it.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Yes it can be done. It is not easy at all and it takes some luck.
Icy Rays is usually still the most annoying move any class can pull on an HR though. You need to tank the damage if you're out of Disruptive Shot.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Err, two if not three of those are dodgeable. It might be better to check out these things in PvP before misleading information.
I was explaining how to counter the root (=cc effect). The OP of this thread - who apparently stopped posting some time ago - started this because he felt that the impossibility to avoid the CC is a problem. And I explained in my previous post that that this is not a problem, because there a counters.
And other people explained options how to avoid getting rooted in the first place. Anyways, I am not going to bumb this qq-thread anymore.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)