Icy rays is the real problem with CW's in pvp

diotelp · September 2014

I could say, if you have problems with fighting a CW, try to dodge/sprint their CC, once its down you should be able to attack them, (ray of frost is a problem here ofc, but thats getting fixed)

Then when you add icy rays into the equation you find that when you are snared by icy rays, you cannot dodge the entangling force/chill strike or whatever, so then the obvious solution would be to dodge the icy rays...

There lies the problem, you are unable to dodge icy rays (bugged?) so when a CW open with icy rays, which they always do... then you are likely to be chain snared with no hope of getting free unless you have something like Oghmas...

So how about... make it so you can dodge icy rays... and i guarantee that there will be a lot less QQ about control wizards in pvp.

adernath · September 2014

All of that works this way since the game came out. There is no need to change this.

hamletswords · September 2014

adernath wrote: »

All of that works this way since the game came out. There is no need to change this.

CW needed this kind of unavoidable root/damage back when it wasn't great in PVP. Now it is. It really doesn't need it anymore to do well, and it should be changed considering it bypasses the CC-defenses of opponents (same reason Roar was correctly changed).

ianthewizard2012 · September 2014

Melee classes have undodgeable powers, too. They are: Takedown, Flourish, Shocking Execution, and Whirlwind of Blades.

And sprint grants cc immunity and damage reduction is ridiculous.

Overall, melee have many abilities which deviating from D&D too much. How about fixing them first?

obsydian666 · September 2014

Really? and maby first lets fix bug which allows HRs, GWFs and GFs ignore CC from icy rays and run over to CW thanks for exaplme threateing rush?

diotelp · September 2014

ok guys we get it, there are quite a few bugs, i just made a suggestion based on something i think CW's need, i play a CW, anc personally i dont think CW's need an unavoidable CC, mainly because it allows the caster to then chain cc the target, if you play well enough you should be able to chain lock without an unavoidable attack, it just gives people an easy way to lock down a target...

Oh and please dont come into the this thread and just start talking about other bugs and relate it to icy rays, as i said before, there are many bugs, inability to dodge icy rays may be a bug, it might now, all i am saying is i think people should be allowed to dodge it... that is all

twilightwatchman · September 2014

Icy Rays is WAI.

Moving on...

izidius · September 2014

Icy Rays is working as intended.

I also find it strange that a power that has been doing the same thing for over a year suddenly needs a change because someone says so.

diotelp · September 2014

oh good lord, i did question if it was bugged, but i am not saying it is bugged, if it is working as intended, i would like to discuss changing it, to the above, the reason why people are seeing icy rays as a problem now is mainly due to the orb of imposition and oppressor feat tree changes, control has been buffed a lot recently, and when you take into account the nature of an undodgable CC followed by a contant stream of ray of frost/entangling or w/e you have to ask yourself, what can i do to prevent this, the answer is nothing as long as icy rays provides an undodgable snare, as because once you are snared, you cannot dodge any other CC's...

xtraordinary91 · September 2014

ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

Melee classes have undodgeable powers, too. They are: Takedown, Flourish, Shocking Execution, and Whirlwind of Blades.

And sprint grants cc immunity and damage reduction is ridiculous.

Overall, melee have many abilities which deviating from D&D too much. How about fixing them first?

If I can dodge Takedown, Flourish and Whirlwind on 390+ ping, there is no reason why you can't. SE is the only other ability that is undodgeable.

xtraordinary91 · September 2014

diotelp wrote: »

oh good lord, i did question if it was bugged, but i am not saying it is bugged, if it is working as intended, i would like to discuss changing it, to the above, the reason why people are seeing icy rays as a problem now is mainly due to the orb of imposition and oppressor feat tree changes, control has been buffed a lot recently, and when you take into account the nature of an undodgable CC followed by a contant stream of ray of frost/entangling or w/e you have to ask yourself, what can i do to prevent this, the answer is nothing as long as icy rays provides an undodgable snare, as because once you are snared, you cannot dodge any other CC's...

The problem isn't Icy Rays, the problem is that Chillstacks are still applied to you whether you dodge the damage or not. If the Cw is Oppressor it is ridiculously easy to apply the stacks.

diotelp · September 2014

xtraordinary91 wrote: »

The problem isn't Icy Rays, the problem is that Chillstacks are still applied to you whether you dodge the damage or not. If the Cw is Oppressor it is ridiculously easy to apply the stacks.

Yeah chill stacks are a problem, and that is being addressed, and maybe what i see as a problem with icy rays wont be so relevent then, but currently, i see icy rays as a way of guaranteeing that you are able to chain cc someone, icy rays > entangling > ray of frost however you do it, dosen't matter, the main way to avoid being CC'd in pvp is to dodge

twilightwatchman · September 2014

diotelp wrote: »

Yeah chill stacks are a problem, and that is being addressed, and maybe what i see as a problem with icy rays wont be so relevent then, but currently, i see icy rays as a way of guaranteeing that you are able to chain cc someone, icy rays > entangling > ray of frost however you do it, dosen't matter, the main way to avoid being CC'd in pvp is to dodge

I've never had anyone dodge RoF. Sure, it's theoretically possible but since it ticks every second you're going to be out of dodges real fast. Come to that, I can't recall the last time anyone dodged EF either. Maybe it's easier now that the activation time is longer?

Also the new changes to freeze/chill should ensure no more endless CC chains regardless of what encounter is used to start one.

ghoulz66 · September 2014

twilightwatchman wrote: »

Icy Rays is WAI.

Moving on...

Yeah, completely immobilize a GF and kill them with zero effort. WAI....

crazymikee · September 2014

its working properly, why dont you "chill" out

pointsman · September 2014

Icy Rays has worked exactly the same on CW since launch. What is up with all of the recent "nerf Icy Rays!" threads?

aulduron · September 2014

pointsman wrote: »

Icy Rays has worked exactly the same on CW since launch. What is up with all of the recent "nerf Icy Rays!" threads?

Someone was finally killed by a CW.

urkmockingjay · September 2014

well they giving 3 seconds immunity from chill after shatter

giving GF shield blocks IR and chill

I'd say pretty soon CW will be back to "free kill" status.

I have seen many skilled players beat CW as is.

I therefor question if it isn't QQ I can't get free kill off CW anymore.

Where is the 3 second immunity after prone or charge etc?

At least I anticipated this coming and have a couple back up options that will work as well

ripyourlipsoff · September 2014

I don't mind being Icy Rays if I didn't block it... But I should be able to block it if my guard is up. The problem I see is CW rotation swapping. CW#1 icy ray rof, CW#2 blows encounters and dailys, CW#2 Icy rays rof, CW#1 Blows encounters dailys....

urkmockingjay · September 2014

so 1 v 2 and you should not loose (assuming similar gear etc)?

telerogue · September 2014

vasdamas wrote: »

Your point?

My list is almost empty now, I don't keep people I don't like for some reason as I feel some tension while talking to them so what's the point of such relationship if I know it will end up bad sooner or later. Moreover that person got banned because of recent BIG exploit so why keep a "dead" person on the list.

Wow you are such a marginal mate that's not good. Empty friends list? So you dislike everyone, so edgy.

cryptfoundation · September 2014

Where were all of you when people were crying about roar? Didn't respect dodges and it was cried about more then icy rays could dream of. CWs are the most hypocritical class I swear (not all of you) last mod you were QQing about classes being OP but now since yours is up there everything is WAI and balanced.

ianthewizard2012 · September 2014

xtraordinary91 wrote: »

If I can dodge Takedown, Flourish and Whirlwind on 390+ ping, there is no reason why you can't. SE is the only other ability that is undodgeable.

Once they have been activated on you, you can't dodge them.

ripyourlipsoff · September 2014

cryptfoundation wrote: »

Where were all of you when people were crying about roar? Didn't respect dodges and it was cried about more then icy rays could dream of. CWs are the most hypocritical class I swear (not all of you) last mod you were QQing about classes being OP but now since yours is up there everything is WAI and balanced.

I complained and made threads about roar daily!

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?704001-We-cannot-wait-for-MOD-4-Roar-must-be-fixed!&highlight=roar

cryptfoundation · September 2014

ripyourlipsoff wrote: »

I complained and made threads about roar daily!

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?704001-We-cannot-wait-for-MOD-4-Roar-must-be-fixed!&highlight=roar

Trust me, I'm not talking about you... I'm talking about the CWs crying constantly about how they can't moove

almightybizzo · September 2014

urkmockingjay wrote: »

well they giving 3 seconds immunity from chill after shatter

giving GF shield blocks IR and chill

I'd say pretty soon CW will be back to "free kill" status.

I have seen many skilled players beat CW as is.

I therefor question if it isn't QQ I can't get free kill off CW anymore.

Where is the 3 second immunity after prone or charge etc?

At least I anticipated this coming and have a couple back up options that will work as well

I have to agree with you to some extent - most classes have been so accustomed to free kills from the CW class that now that we can survive and defend ourselves, we're seeing a lot of QQ about no longer being the free kill we were before. I think we needed a bit of adjustment, but nerfing control of a CONTROL wizard is ridiculous. Lets nerf the range of Hunter RANGErs next. And the guard aspect of GUARDian fighters. See how that goes.

I'm suspecting that a lot of the QQ we see about CW control is from people who rolled in the past 6 months and never saw CWs as anything more than kites with shoes in pvp. We're back to nearly as good as we were before being hit with neverending nerfbats in Mod2 etc and everyone thinks we were given presents. We weren't given gifts. We were given back what was taken from us long ago. Adapt. We had to...for months.

marc8219 · September 2014

The constant perma freezing is annoying but I think CW damage should have been nerfed instead of control. Let them lock people up, its fine as long as they can't do enough damage to kill the locked person on their own before the hold expires and they need a teammate to help get the kill. They should be able to spec into control or damage and do only 1 good, not both.

kweassa · September 2014

In my case, I'm against any and every active power which is "undodgeable".

Hence I supported a nerf to Shocking Execution (although they nerfed it the wrong way...)
I supported a nerf to roar
I support a nerf to Piercing Blades
and I support a nerf to Icy Rays.

Anything "undodgeable" doesn't have a place in this game where defensive methods are few and far between.

Heed my words. Anything that has to do with "undodgeable" or "ignores mitigation" is simply bad news for balance. Was the same with Champions Online and the "ignores mitigation" power Dragon's Wrath lol

reagenlionel1 · September 2014

cryptfoundation wrote: »

Where were all of you when people were crying about roar? Didn't respect dodges and it was cried about more then icy rays could dream of. CWs are the most hypocritical class I swear (not all of you) last mod you were QQing about classes being OP but now since yours is up there everything is WAI and balanced.

This right here sums up the ENTIRE thread. Right here.

Everyone was ganging up on Roar, but when its Icy rays virtually undodgable ( when you can actually dodge And misfire roar) Its a crime.

This thread if full of hypocrits.

By the way you can legitamately dodge and miss Takedown and Flourish always have. People do it all the time. I dont know where this claim came from.

Whirlwind of blades is a daily and an area attack. I dont mind that its undodgable but it shoudlnt ignore defenses in my opinion, at least to the degree it does (all defenses)

Shocking Execution is however to this day, I admit should be dodgable.

hamletswords · September 2014

ianthewizard2012 wrote: »

Melee classes have undodgeable powers, too. They are: Takedown, Flourish, Shocking Execution, and Whirlwind of Blades.

And sprint grants cc immunity and damage reduction is ridiculous.

Overall, melee have many abilities which deviating from D&D too much. How about fixing them first?

Are you nuts? Takedown and flourish are dodgable. The damage from SE and WOB is undodgable but there's no CC component to them and they're dailies.

All CC in the game is dodgable except Icy Rays.

pointsman · September 2014

First I don't give a **** about PVP. Dodgeable, nondodgeable, whatever. As far as I'm concerned, all of the PVPers coming to this forum whining about non-dodgeable Icy Rays are agenda-driven complainers who want CWs to be little more than punching bags and will put forth any dishonest argument possible until that is achieved.

But CWs ought to have something that roots targets because that is part of its job as a controller.

In the Tuern skirmish I often use Icy Rays in the final fight to quickly lock down one of the drakes (when it is not in its immune phase) so that it stays in place, at least temporarily, while the rest of us are able to wear it down. Those drakes are fairly dangerous, its charge attack can easily take half the health of a squishy player.

That is what Icy Rays is intended to be used for. By a CW in its role as a controller.

If you want Icy Rays nerfed, what you are saying is that you don't want CWs to do their jobs as controllers. Given the freeze changes, demanded by the PVP whiners, you don't want them to be able to freeze mobs either. And you of course certainly don't want CWs to do DPS (that's not fair to everyone else!!!! or something). So how do you want them to control mobs? By sternly worded letters?

Icy rays is the real problem with CW's in pvp

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