Rainbow should be enforced in this game. There's a reason top guilds would try to run rainbow comps against each other in organized pmvspm, in an attempt from the players to balance the imbalanced game...
That would help, but really I'm not sure it would work. There would be almost no point in queuing if you aren't BIS in a BIS team, because you're likely to face a BIS team. So basically the whole leaderboard would be based around 20 guys, and good luck getting matches going. Nobody's going to form a team of <15k guys to get trounced on over and over.
Maybe they should just make two leaderboards, one for full premades and one for solo-only queue, and eliminate the chance to partial-premade. Otherwise you're going to alienate the majority of the playerbase.
That would help, but really I'm not sure it would work. There would be almost no point in queuing if you aren't BIS in a BIS team, because you're likely to face a BIS team. So basically the whole leaderboard would be based around 20 guys, and good luck getting matches going. Nobody's going to form a team of <15k guys to get trounced on over and over.
Maybe they should just make two leaderboards, one for full premades and one for solo-only queue, and eliminate the chance to partial-premade. Otherwise you're going to alienate the majority of the playerbase.
This is why there must be ladder brackets (based on rating not gear).
Strange case today I got.. this might fall into the bug section. But there's something weird on how leaderboard's really calculating things.
Since mod 4 i never touch PvP, because it is scary as **** playing with cleric... so, i NEVER touch pvp at all.
Today i did the pvp icewind quest (still striving for the pvp ring set reward)
Got busted by a opposed faction SW without much preparation
me + companion vs him + companion + his shadow pet..
This is how it happens in the duel :
I managed to the companion thru AoE skill,
while he kills my companion + me both
so, as you can see in the pic..
I end up with 4 DEATHS altho my companion(if that counts) and me died only once. Should be at most 2 DEATHs if they really count companion death..
Strangely enough , the record in pvp icewind dale is kept being 0 across.
What about the 6k prayer alts that people use now to boost eachother score? I understand you use another definition of trollcomposition, but to me these 2 are the same. That's why I don't want full team ranking. Too easily abused. Solo ranking is harder, I admit, but at least everyone gets to deal with the random weak teams now and then. If you want full team ranking, make them fixed and add another leaderboard.
Not really no. I'm allergic to abuse. Unfortunately some of these people hang around places like the /legit as well with their PvE character. I choose not to deal with such people, so they get ignored just to be safe.
Troll comp is composition of players in a team to beat any other teams. Like 3 CWs is a troll comp because they are so OP atm.
Get rid of 5 man parties in PVP.2 should be the limit.
No pug group can defeat 18 k gs party with dragon enchants or multi cw and shouldnt be put in matches against 5 man premades.
If you want to do a 5 man premade, you should be put in a separate queue against other 5 man parties.
Longer queue time? So sorry for you.
Maybe its time we stop worrying about queue times for the few hundred elites.
If you want a shorter queue time get in a two man group and risk an actual even match instead of just rolling over pugs.
I hear time and again that GS matchmaker wont work because it takes too long for higher level players to find a match.
Tough. Not our fault you want to get every available advantage up to and including troll comps with fotm classes and broken enchants, only to fight random scrubs like me.
If i have a chance or am only a couple hund points behind I will jump off the fire and die over and over again until the match is over.
If I am in a match against a premade elite squad and everybody on my team is 0k-10d then I am going to sit at the fire and let them cap it out and win. This has nothing to do with my position on leaderboard and everything to do with the fact that getting killed over and over again with no chance is not fun...and sitting at the fire and giving up will make the match go faster.
What I would REALLY love to see is separating 5 man premades from pugs. It's depressing as it gets to join a match and realize that you're gonna stay in spawn area because there's a 5 man 20+k GS premade on the opposite side while your team consists of 8-10k pugs.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
0
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited August 2014
100% agreed.
I lost a lot of respect for people who stopped running with friends or in full groups because of the leaderboard.
Funny, many people only wanted to solo q or duo q when the LB came out, and the duo Q's wouldn't run with a CW, in case, the que gave them another cw. Now these same people won't run without one.
As for the LB making people avoid solo Q, I disagree, as many solo Q you they can avoid loss or bad stats, but if they run with someone else, their shenanigans will be known.
Anyway--we all know who the best players are, no matter where they were at on the leaderboard.
There are several things that could fix the way people manipulate pvp atm.
1. Anytime a player starts a match (actually zones into the map) and he leaves, disconnects, gets booted whatever it should count as a lose for matchmaking.
2. Deaths and loses should not be visible on leaderboards to other players. To many people just sit at a fire because after the game is at about 100 points they know who is going to win (or think they do). This would encourage players to participate more without having other players judging a person on how many deaths he has just because he didnt give up in matches he was losing.
3. To add another stat to the leaderboard to replace the death/lose stats. A good choice would be points scored (or to stop from having a rather large number have it an average per match). This would also encourage players to continue to fight in a battle they are losing.
I just don't think there's enough people playing pvp seriously for it to work.
The sad reality is that indeed there aren't.
You can count the PvP instances by the way through /who. "Hotenow Domination #<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>", "Rivenscar Ruins #<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>". At one point you will only get empty instances. There is usually a maximum of 60/map open - including low level PvP. Some of them might be closed though, such as Hotenow #59 last populated instance, but hotenow 11, 15, 51 empty ones.
You can calculate about 800-1000 players (all levels) PvP at one point.
The number of level 60s - much lower.
The number of geared, skilled lvl 60 PvPers - even way lower than that. It's basically like a bigger family where everybody know the others at this stage.
Game is indeed quite small. For PROPER, STRUCTURED PvP to work, there needs to be serious work done and players attracted. A realistic view would appreciate this will never happen.
Yea I thought that's what you meant. To me a troll comp can be the exact opposite as well. Low lvl alts used to premade against and raise the score of main characters. That's what I was aiming to stop by not allowing premades. If there's another name for that, my bad.
You lose spots on the leaderboard for winning against low-ELO groups. No premades are "farming" low level alts. Not to mention, that's a lot of work, since the alts would need to be level 60, on different accounts, and in an almost full premade in order to be matched against the premade of interest...
There are several things that could fix the way people manipulate pvp atm.
1. Anytime a player starts a match (actually zones into the map) and he leaves, disconnects, gets booted whatever it should count as a lose for matchmaking.
2. Deaths and loses should not be visible on leaderboards to other players. To many people just sit at a fire because after the game is at about 100 points they know who is going to win (or think they do). This would encourage players to participate more without having other players judging a person on how many deaths he has just because he didnt give up in matches he was losing.
3. To add another stat to the leaderboard to replace the death/lose stats. A good choice would be points scored (or to stop from having a rather large number have it an average per match). This would also encourage players to continue to fight in a battle they are losing.
All very valid points and I would love to see #3 implemented. I think total points scored should count - as should kills. When I've been in pick up groups and expected to carry a team of undergeared players to victory, I should get credit for doing so. Even if I fail to carry that team to a win, I should get credit for all the kills and saves I'd managed to rack up during the match instead of penalized for my team's failure to do their jobs. Stop penalizing people for using the system you designed as it was intended, Cryptic.
Yea I thought that's what you meant. To me a troll comp can be the exact opposite as well. Low lvl alts used to premade against and raise the score of main characters. That's what I was aiming to stop by not allowing premades. If there's another name for that, my bad.
Actually, the random queue system has always been programmed to not allow troll comps in a random pick up group. The usual definition of a troll group is 3 or more of any one class on a single team. Whenever you see that, its a premade and NOT a random pick. It is a troll group.
Others have tried to extend the definition to mean any premade group that consists entirely of the overpowered classes of the month. This is a fairly new occurrence since the introduction of Tenacity into the game. Prior to that, you would see some full GWF parties, but rainbow comp was still BiS. When GWFs were made OP pvp gods, everything changed. Sadly, we haven't had anything resembling balance in pvp since that time.
No idea why people are so overly attached to the numbers at leaderboards. I could pvp all day and not give a **** about the leader board. Haven't bothered to check it out since it was made more then 2 times, and I'm a hardcore pvp'er.
I'd rather some of these who made huge effort to write these big posts have a say in the current lack of pvp maps instead. :rolleyes:
Actually, the random queue system has always been programmed to not allow troll comps in a random pick up group. The usual definition of a troll group is 3 or more of any one class on a single team. Whenever you see that, its a premade and NOT a random pick. It is a troll group.
I see...not only do premades get the advantage of having a 5 man team against randoms, they also can get OP team composition not allowed to pugs.
One more reason why 5 man parties in pvp have to go.
NO OTHER game i have ever played has allowed 5 man premades into pvp...even with 15-20 person teams.
If they see how bad that is for team balance , then why doesn't cryptic?
I see...not only do premades get the advantage of having a 5 man team against randoms, they also can get OP team composition not allowed to pugs.
One more reason why 5 man parties in pvp have to go.
NO OTHER game i have ever played has allowed 5 man premades into pvp...even with 15-20 person teams.
If they see how bad that is for team balance , then why doesn't cryptic?
And what other games did you played? Minecraft? Swtor have 4mans against pugs in 8man warzones, WoW had it for years. Guild Wars had it.
Get a guild and start running pvp. Stop whining about losing in a pug and start communicating, teamplaying. This is MMO not FPS. If you can't handle the basic idea of teamplay, return to minecraft.
While i do believe, that removing potions, elixirs and other garbage (anything except artifacts and pvp potions), will have a positive impact on the gameplay i am against spreading thin the already small pvp playerbase only because people can't get a decent team on their own. They should fix the respawn staying by kicking player and locking his queues for the next 30mins (or more), but i don't see a point in removing the leaderboard, where pvp players can get their epen signature (and that is the only real value to them in this game).
No items are realy worth playing domination (maybe rings). By removing leaderboards, you are taking away the reason to play pvp from those, who are treating it more seriously than wintrades that are sitting in DV and unlocking achievements.
And what other games did you played? Minecraft? Swtor have 4mans against pugs in 8man warzones, WoW had it for years. Guild Wars had it.
Get a guild and start running pvp. Stop whining about losing in a pug and start communicating, teamplaying. This is MMO not FPS. If you can't handle the basic idea of teamplay, return to minecraft.
No, i have never played minecraft.
Please keep your assumptions to yourself.
I Don't think its fun to go form a 5 man OP group and stomp random noobs.
So i won't be taking your suggestion of going and forming a guild and making groups to beat on noobs.
If that is what you need to do to feel good at this game...that's great for you.
If 5 man premades can have troll comp teams, then why cant random pugs get it too?
Not only do they get the advantage of all communicating and being familiar working with each other, but they also get stacked team classes?
Go sell it somewhere else, the only people benefitting from this is PVP players who want to stroke their e peens by going easy mode with BiS teams against new 60s so they can be on top of the leaderboard. Go play PvE if you want an unbalanced easy mode game. This surely does NOT benefit the game , or even the pvpers that do it as it drives players from pvp.
New players see pvp as a joke. Something to do dailies on for AD and easy gear...
..and without new players you can get the baddest, troll comping, BiS, dragon glyphing, Knight valoring teams and what good will it do you? None if there is nobody left to play against.
I wouldn't mind of they undo it if it makes people not worry about it and start just having fun in PvP. I never look at the thing, never have, never will. I don't care about rankings at all, mine or yours. I just queue up and try to have fun, at least until a premade shows up
PvP does need to be made more friendly to non BiS people and non premade people, in order to attract more players. I think the queue wait times are because there just aren't many people who pvp any longer.
I Don't think its fun to go form a 5 man OP group and stomp random noobs.
So i won't be taking your suggestion of going and forming a guild and making groups to beat on noobs.
If that is what you need to do to feel good at this game...that's great for you.
First of all, it is an MMO. You might want to check for what it stands for. Domination is not Deathmatch, and any semi organized player knows that (and im not speaking here about headless chickens). Jack Nicholson once said: "You cant handle the truth!" and im still adressing some issues i had raised in previous comment. New players is a factor in every single mmo i had played (see previous comment). They run like chickens in every one of them. Adjust and/or die.
I know this might sound harsh but let them learn to play and adjust or extinct. PVP was always survival of the fittest not a beauty pageant.
I'm a huge pvp player and I could get to a decent place on leaderboards with my gf but that's the problem, I don't find it fun. I like being competitive and trying to come top of games but with a leaderboard you always trying so hard and spending too much time worrying about it and then you go down in rank when you win....
Leaderboard also makes people leave games or stand at spawn too much because they don't want to lose score I miss the old days when not that many people cared.
And with this games matchmaking leaderboards don't even mean anything.... the players at top leaderboards aren't there because they are the BEST, they might be good but that's not the reason. They are there because they play more than everyone else and usually play with full premade teams so most others don't have a chance and I know that 99% of them use buffs like crazy spending about 20-40k ad just to win 1 match pfff.
I hope leaderbords get removed so pvp is fun again.
While the leaderboards are not accurate and can be manipulated to some extent, I do still enjoy having it there when I PvP. It gives me a reason to try harder in matches and to play more matches to see what I can do with it. I also enjoy having access to my stats so I can focus on trying to push for a better kdr or higher points per match, ect. However, this does not deter me in any way from doing anything I can to help the team get the win. Win vs loss is more important than just stats, and even if I am in a match where my team starts to quit I will continue to try to push them and myself to keep going or try a different strategy, despite racking up deaths if I were trying to do something like raise my kdr.
It just gives me something I can use to evaluate myself to some extent and helps motivate me to try harder in matches. That is why I like it. It is also kind of nice to see where friends are, check their stats, ect, but we are all well aware of how some people try to work certain aspects of the leaderboard and the flaws in its evaluation of rankings.
The problem is with people's perceptions with the board. People simply need to remember the board cannot be reflective of actual ability, and that it should be a tool for motivation rather than degradation.
Despite saying this, a lot of the more high end and PvP community in general is corrupt in how they think and act in response to PvP. Unfortunately, it has been going on for a long time and is not going to stop. This does make me compelled to argue the board should be removed. Yet, I would rather PvP community step up and take a more mature stance with regards to PvP in general rather than make changes because the players lack mental clarity. I'm afraid there is not much hope for this kind of change though.
While i do believe, that removing potions, elixirs and other garbage (anything except artifacts and pvp potions), will have a positive impact on the gameplay i am against spreading thin the already small pvp playerbase only because people can't get a decent team on their own. They should fix the respawn staying by kicking player and locking his queues for the next 30mins (or more), but i don't see a point in removing the leaderboard, where pvp players can get their epen signature (and that is the only real value to them in this game).
You think potions are bad in PVP? But op full teams aren't?
LOL
Why is that ? Because new players can afford potions? Easiest way to get a few hundred GS for a **** is to go spend a few k on the AH.
I am a **** and I do that all the time.
Just because OP players are all stacked to the gills with pots doesn't mean that you should just get rid of em.
Just LOLOLOLOL...OP 5 man teams aren't OP , its the potions!!! Sure thing.
****= New Player...didn't know you can't say ****.
Look its been said over and over that the biggest problem of PVP is currently TWO fold:
1) The BIGGEST one is the WAY ELO is making "balanced teams" Its trying to find good and bed ELO players onto the SAME team on each side to create" balance". In a sense you get a handful of good and a handful of bad players on each team - so its fair right? WRONG!
The good players end up carrying the bad and get mad when they lose, the bad players get stomped by the good and get mad and the game winds up being who has the players on their team who have the FOTM classes. (I.E. Mod 3 - whoever had more GWFs in a pug vs pug wins, mod 4 whoever has more CWs wins etc). This is a generalization.
2) Losing ELO from winning. This is ANOTHER BIG issue in PVP.
Solo Q? GG you got pit against a premade and have pugs, LOSE!
Duo Q? GG got pit against a premade or someone AFKd out, LOSE! Oh you won? Your two person teams ELO is too high, LOSE ELO!
Premade Q? Go against PUGs, win and LOSE elo!!!
There is ONE solution that solves these problems (yes BOTH of them!)
SOLUTION: Separate the Ques into THREE categories:
1) Bottom 33%
2) Middle 33%
3) Top 33%
So back when we could SEE ELO ranges it was like 23 (lowest) - 43 (highest) so AN EXAMPLE:
Tier 1) 23-30 (33% of PVP population)
Tier 2) 30-38 (33% of pvp population)
Tier 3) 38 - 43 (33%)
Now matchmaking ONLY matches you with people of your own "tier". THEN instead of basing teams off ELO, since now ELO ONLY determines the "pool" you put together a SIMILAR "role" like PVE has. Where if the party has a DC, its not going to fill that spot with a DC.
So what youve done is made MORE even teams from an ELO standpoint AND more even class makeup as well.
Why does this help?
Because now you wont get mad because your carrying bad pugs. Everyone on your team is in the same "category" of PVP you are at. 18k GS HIGH elo players dont get stuck with 6k GS pugs who have never played pvp before...
It ALSO helps alleviate losing rank by winning because NOW you have fairly even ELO teams on each side!
It ALSO helps because now when you Q as a DC, you know your team wont get stuck with ANOTHER DC where you have 2 DC 3 TR team against a 1 GF 3 CW 1 GWF team who wins from pure class overpowering your class makeup!
Say you Q as a 2 CW/GF TRIO - its gonna find a DC to be put in your group in the top 33% of the ELO (same tier) makeup. If there arent enough DCs, it doesnt put a DC on either team! (Sorry DCs!)
1/3rd of the population is still a large enough "player base" to get fast enough Ques with pretty fair "balance". Sure youll have Page 1 premades rolling over Page 50 Pugs, but that will always happen no matter how you slice it....
what this WILL achieve though is a MUCH better chance of getting better games with better players who fit your same "tier". So your playing with "like" players rather than the mix n match you get today.
Bottom line: removing the leaderboard won't fix the despicable behavior in PVP in this game. People were exploiting and running troll comps before the leaderboard existed, and they still will without a leaderboard.
Comments
That would help, but really I'm not sure it would work. There would be almost no point in queuing if you aren't BIS in a BIS team, because you're likely to face a BIS team. So basically the whole leaderboard would be based around 20 guys, and good luck getting matches going. Nobody's going to form a team of <15k guys to get trounced on over and over.
Maybe they should just make two leaderboards, one for full premades and one for solo-only queue, and eliminate the chance to partial-premade. Otherwise you're going to alienate the majority of the playerbase.
I would rather them to introduce new pvp modes and maps
This is why there must be ladder brackets (based on rating not gear).
Since mod 4 i never touch PvP, because it is scary as **** playing with cleric... so, i NEVER touch pvp at all.
Today i did the pvp icewind quest (still striving for the pvp ring set reward)
Got busted by a opposed faction SW without much preparation
me + companion vs him + companion + his shadow pet..
This is how it happens in the duel :
I managed to the companion thru AoE skill,
while he kills my companion + me both
so, as you can see in the pic..
I end up with 4 DEATHS altho my companion(if that counts) and me died only once. Should be at most 2 DEATHs if they really count companion death..
Strangely enough , the record in pvp icewind dale is kept being 0 across.
I just don't think there's enough people playing pvp seriously for it to work.
Troll comp is composition of players in a team to beat any other teams. Like 3 CWs is a troll comp because they are so OP atm.
No pug group can defeat 18 k gs party with dragon enchants or multi cw and shouldnt be put in matches against 5 man premades.
If you want to do a 5 man premade, you should be put in a separate queue against other 5 man parties.
Longer queue time? So sorry for you.
Maybe its time we stop worrying about queue times for the few hundred elites.
If you want a shorter queue time get in a two man group and risk an actual even match instead of just rolling over pugs.
I hear time and again that GS matchmaker wont work because it takes too long for higher level players to find a match.
Tough. Not our fault you want to get every available advantage up to and including troll comps with fotm classes and broken enchants, only to fight random scrubs like me.
If i have a chance or am only a couple hund points behind I will jump off the fire and die over and over again until the match is over.
If I am in a match against a premade elite squad and everybody on my team is 0k-10d then I am going to sit at the fire and let them cap it out and win. This has nothing to do with my position on leaderboard and everything to do with the fact that getting killed over and over again with no chance is not fun...and sitting at the fire and giving up will make the match go faster.
I lost a lot of respect for people who stopped running with friends or in full groups because of the leaderboard.
Funny, many people only wanted to solo q or duo q when the LB came out, and the duo Q's wouldn't run with a CW, in case, the que gave them another cw. Now these same people won't run without one.
As for the LB making people avoid solo Q, I disagree, as many solo Q you they can avoid loss or bad stats, but if they run with someone else, their shenanigans will be known.
Anyway--we all know who the best players are, no matter where they were at on the leaderboard.
1. Anytime a player starts a match (actually zones into the map) and he leaves, disconnects, gets booted whatever it should count as a lose for matchmaking.
2. Deaths and loses should not be visible on leaderboards to other players. To many people just sit at a fire because after the game is at about 100 points they know who is going to win (or think they do). This would encourage players to participate more without having other players judging a person on how many deaths he has just because he didnt give up in matches he was losing.
3. To add another stat to the leaderboard to replace the death/lose stats. A good choice would be points scored (or to stop from having a rather large number have it an average per match). This would also encourage players to continue to fight in a battle they are losing.
The sad reality is that indeed there aren't.
You can count the PvP instances by the way through /who. "Hotenow Domination #<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>", "Rivenscar Ruins #<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>". At one point you will only get empty instances. There is usually a maximum of 60/map open - including low level PvP. Some of them might be closed though, such as Hotenow #59 last populated instance, but hotenow 11, 15, 51 empty ones.
You can calculate about 800-1000 players (all levels) PvP at one point.
The number of level 60s - much lower.
The number of geared, skilled lvl 60 PvPers - even way lower than that. It's basically like a bigger family where everybody know the others at this stage.
Game is indeed quite small. For PROPER, STRUCTURED PvP to work, there needs to be serious work done and players attracted. A realistic view would appreciate this will never happen.
You lose spots on the leaderboard for winning against low-ELO groups. No premades are "farming" low level alts. Not to mention, that's a lot of work, since the alts would need to be level 60, on different accounts, and in an almost full premade in order to be matched against the premade of interest...
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
All very valid points and I would love to see #3 implemented. I think total points scored should count - as should kills. When I've been in pick up groups and expected to carry a team of undergeared players to victory, I should get credit for doing so. Even if I fail to carry that team to a win, I should get credit for all the kills and saves I'd managed to rack up during the match instead of penalized for my team's failure to do their jobs. Stop penalizing people for using the system you designed as it was intended, Cryptic.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Actually, the random queue system has always been programmed to not allow troll comps in a random pick up group. The usual definition of a troll group is 3 or more of any one class on a single team. Whenever you see that, its a premade and NOT a random pick. It is a troll group.
Others have tried to extend the definition to mean any premade group that consists entirely of the overpowered classes of the month. This is a fairly new occurrence since the introduction of Tenacity into the game. Prior to that, you would see some full GWF parties, but rainbow comp was still BiS. When GWFs were made OP pvp gods, everything changed. Sadly, we haven't had anything resembling balance in pvp since that time.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'd rather some of these who made huge effort to write these big posts have a say in the current lack of pvp maps instead. :rolleyes:
One more reason why 5 man parties in pvp have to go.
NO OTHER game i have ever played has allowed 5 man premades into pvp...even with 15-20 person teams.
If they see how bad that is for team balance , then why doesn't cryptic?
And what other games did you played? Minecraft? Swtor have 4mans against pugs in 8man warzones, WoW had it for years. Guild Wars had it.
Get a guild and start running pvp. Stop whining about losing in a pug and start communicating, teamplaying. This is MMO not FPS. If you can't handle the basic idea of teamplay, return to minecraft.
While i do believe, that removing potions, elixirs and other garbage (anything except artifacts and pvp potions), will have a positive impact on the gameplay i am against spreading thin the already small pvp playerbase only because people can't get a decent team on their own. They should fix the respawn staying by kicking player and locking his queues for the next 30mins (or more), but i don't see a point in removing the leaderboard, where pvp players can get their epen signature (and that is the only real value to them in this game).
No items are realy worth playing domination (maybe rings). By removing leaderboards, you are taking away the reason to play pvp from those, who are treating it more seriously than wintrades that are sitting in DV and unlocking achievements.
No, i have never played minecraft.
Please keep your assumptions to yourself.
I Don't think its fun to go form a 5 man OP group and stomp random noobs.
So i won't be taking your suggestion of going and forming a guild and making groups to beat on noobs.
If that is what you need to do to feel good at this game...that's great for you.
If 5 man premades can have troll comp teams, then why cant random pugs get it too?
Not only do they get the advantage of all communicating and being familiar working with each other, but they also get stacked team classes?
Go sell it somewhere else, the only people benefitting from this is PVP players who want to stroke their e peens by going easy mode with BiS teams against new 60s so they can be on top of the leaderboard. Go play PvE if you want an unbalanced easy mode game. This surely does NOT benefit the game , or even the pvpers that do it as it drives players from pvp.
New players see pvp as a joke. Something to do dailies on for AD and easy gear...
..and without new players you can get the baddest, troll comping, BiS, dragon glyphing, Knight valoring teams and what good will it do you? None if there is nobody left to play against.
PvP does need to be made more friendly to non BiS people and non premade people, in order to attract more players. I think the queue wait times are because there just aren't many people who pvp any longer.
First of all, it is an MMO. You might want to check for what it stands for. Domination is not Deathmatch, and any semi organized player knows that (and im not speaking here about headless chickens). Jack Nicholson once said: "You cant handle the truth!" and im still adressing some issues i had raised in previous comment. New players is a factor in every single mmo i had played (see previous comment). They run like chickens in every one of them. Adjust and/or die.
I know this might sound harsh but let them learn to play and adjust or extinct. PVP was always survival of the fittest not a beauty pageant.
Leaderboard also makes people leave games or stand at spawn too much because they don't want to lose score
And with this games matchmaking leaderboards don't even mean anything.... the players at top leaderboards aren't there because they are the BEST, they might be good but that's not the reason. They are there because they play more than everyone else and usually play with full premade teams so most others don't have a chance and I know that 99% of them use buffs like crazy spending about 20-40k ad just to win 1 match pfff.
I hope leaderbords get removed so pvp is fun again.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It just gives me something I can use to evaluate myself to some extent and helps motivate me to try harder in matches. That is why I like it. It is also kind of nice to see where friends are, check their stats, ect, but we are all well aware of how some people try to work certain aspects of the leaderboard and the flaws in its evaluation of rankings.
The problem is with people's perceptions with the board. People simply need to remember the board cannot be reflective of actual ability, and that it should be a tool for motivation rather than degradation.
Despite saying this, a lot of the more high end and PvP community in general is corrupt in how they think and act in response to PvP. Unfortunately, it has been going on for a long time and is not going to stop. This does make me compelled to argue the board should be removed. Yet, I would rather PvP community step up and take a more mature stance with regards to PvP in general rather than make changes because the players lack mental clarity. I'm afraid there is not much hope for this kind of change though.
You think potions are bad in PVP? But op full teams aren't?
LOL
Why is that ? Because new players can afford potions? Easiest way to get a few hundred GS for a **** is to go spend a few k on the AH.
I am a **** and I do that all the time.
Just because OP players are all stacked to the gills with pots doesn't mean that you should just get rid of em.
Just LOLOLOLOL...OP 5 man teams aren't OP , its the potions!!! Sure thing.
****= New Player...didn't know you can't say ****.
Edit: Added correct quote
1) The BIGGEST one is the WAY ELO is making "balanced teams" Its trying to find good and bed ELO players onto the SAME team on each side to create" balance". In a sense you get a handful of good and a handful of bad players on each team - so its fair right? WRONG!
The good players end up carrying the bad and get mad when they lose, the bad players get stomped by the good and get mad and the game winds up being who has the players on their team who have the FOTM classes. (I.E. Mod 3 - whoever had more GWFs in a pug vs pug wins, mod 4 whoever has more CWs wins etc). This is a generalization.
2) Losing ELO from winning. This is ANOTHER BIG issue in PVP.
Solo Q? GG you got pit against a premade and have pugs, LOSE!
Duo Q? GG got pit against a premade or someone AFKd out, LOSE! Oh you won? Your two person teams ELO is too high, LOSE ELO!
Premade Q? Go against PUGs, win and LOSE elo!!!
There is ONE solution that solves these problems (yes BOTH of them!)
SOLUTION: Separate the Ques into THREE categories:
1) Bottom 33%
2) Middle 33%
3) Top 33%
So back when we could SEE ELO ranges it was like 23 (lowest) - 43 (highest) so AN EXAMPLE:
Tier 1) 23-30 (33% of PVP population)
Tier 2) 30-38 (33% of pvp population)
Tier 3) 38 - 43 (33%)
Now matchmaking ONLY matches you with people of your own "tier". THEN instead of basing teams off ELO, since now ELO ONLY determines the "pool" you put together a SIMILAR "role" like PVE has. Where if the party has a DC, its not going to fill that spot with a DC.
So what youve done is made MORE even teams from an ELO standpoint AND more even class makeup as well.
Why does this help?
Because now you wont get mad because your carrying bad pugs. Everyone on your team is in the same "category" of PVP you are at. 18k GS HIGH elo players dont get stuck with 6k GS pugs who have never played pvp before...
It ALSO helps alleviate losing rank by winning because NOW you have fairly even ELO teams on each side!
It ALSO helps because now when you Q as a DC, you know your team wont get stuck with ANOTHER DC where you have 2 DC 3 TR team against a 1 GF 3 CW 1 GWF team who wins from pure class overpowering your class makeup!
Say you Q as a 2 CW/GF TRIO - its gonna find a DC to be put in your group in the top 33% of the ELO (same tier) makeup. If there arent enough DCs, it doesnt put a DC on either team! (Sorry DCs!)
1/3rd of the population is still a large enough "player base" to get fast enough Ques with pretty fair "balance". Sure youll have Page 1 premades rolling over Page 50 Pugs, but that will always happen no matter how you slice it....
what this WILL achieve though is a MUCH better chance of getting better games with better players who fit your same "tier". So your playing with "like" players rather than the mix n match you get today.