Remember when this game came out and cryptic promised us

n0vastarone · August 2014

Races and classes would never be hidden behind paywalls.

*Looks at dragonborn*

Kinda feel cheated but this is cryptic..and they have been cheating us for a long time now. in all three games. Just disapointing is all.

lewstelamon01 · August 2014

No, they actually that all content from 1-60 would be completely free to play. See also: Drow, Moon Elf. You're reading "races" as "content" and that just isn't true.

Dungeons are content. Leveling areas are content. Endgame areas are content. Races, however, are not.

sockmunkey · August 2014

Yup, never said races and classes. Only classes. The Dragonborn is hardly the first race to be a paid race. You need to pay to play a menzo drow and a moon elf as well.

kheldryn · August 2014

My guess would be Cryptic/ARC's definition of "Content" and all other MMO's are different. At least when I pay for something in WoW or SWToR (Blizzard and Bio Ware) I get what I pay for. 75 Bucks for a race? Seriously? for 59 Bucks in WoW I got 2 Races, A mount, A Vanity Pet, NEw Adventuring Zones, PvP Areas, Dungeons and Raid Dungeons, Well worth the Deluxe edition (Though my latest WoW purchase doesn't grant a new race, but everything else is the same), So why wouyld I pay 75, and get less than 1/4 of what I'd get from any other MMO? Sorry Cryptic/ARC, as much as I like your games you guys are going off the deep end now.

sockmunkey · August 2014

kheldryn wrote: »

My guess would be Cryptic/ARC's definition of "Content" and all other MMO's are different. At least when I pay for something in WoW or SWToR (Blizzard and Bio Ware) I get what I pay for. 75 Bucks for a race? Seriously? for 59 Bucks in WoW I got 2 Races, A mount, A Vanity Pet, NEw Adventuring Zones, PvP Areas, Dungeons and Raid Dungeons, Well worth the Deluxe edition

True, technically you are buying it. But you are forgetting the 15$ per month, you have to pay to actually have access to it. Miss one payment, and that 59$ of stuff you paid for, might as well of been a rental.

lewstelamon01 · August 2014

kheldryn wrote: »

My guess would be Cryptic/ARC's definition of "Content" and all other MMO's are different. At least when I pay for something in WoW or SWToR (Blizzard and Bio Ware) I get what I pay for. 75 Bucks for a race? Seriously? for 59 Bucks in WoW I got 2 Races, A mount, A Vanity Pet, NEw Adventuring Zones, PvP Areas, Dungeons and Raid Dungeons, Well worth the Deluxe edition (Though my latest WoW purchase doesn't grant a new race, but everything else is the same), So why wouyld I pay 75, and get less than 1/4 of what I'd get from any other MMO? Sorry Cryptic/ARC, as much as I like your games you guys are going off the deep end now.

Except you're not getting "just a race" with that pack. Let's review a moment.

You're getting:

-The dragonborn race.
-A 30-slot bag account wide. This means all current AND future characters on that account. Better than anything you can currently find on the ZEN market at that.
-A race change token. Another 15 bucks.
-Two fashion sets. Value varies.
-Free character slot.

Keep in mind: the areas in Module 4 are STILL free to explore. You don't have to buy the pack to be able to play in them!! Not the case with WoW or SWTOR.

I don't know...I'd say that 75 dollars for the sum total value of the pack is fair enough. People are getting hung up on just the dragonborn race.

streea6 · August 2014

They did say clases would be MOST LIKELY always be free, not races. On the issue of the Dragonborn pack, I purchased it.Likely my last purchase as everytime I spend money on this game I come away fairly unsatisfied,but that's my own issue. I purchased it because I wanted the things in the pack,there are some good things,but to say the value is comparable to a brand newly released collectors edition game is stretching it quite a ways by any standard.

warpet · August 2014

n0vastarone wrote: »

Races and classes would never be hidden behind paywalls.

*Looks at dragonborn*

Kinda feel cheated but this is cryptic..and they have been cheating us for a long time now. in all three games. Just disapointing is all.

u can buy dragonborn for ad so it still can be earned for free only problem is ad exchange is caped so u would need to wait few weeks to get it

sockmunkey · August 2014

lewstelamon01 wrote: »

You're getting:

-The dragonborn race.
-A 30-slot bag account wide. This means all current AND future characters on that account. Better than anything you can currently find on the ZEN market at that.
-A race change token. Another 15 bucks.
-Two fashion sets. Value varies.
-Free character slot.

You forgot the purple ranked ACCOUNT wide artifact with one of the most generally useful stat combos currently available.

rhoric · August 2014

Except 75 bucks is too much. I paid 80 bucks for imperial edition for ESO, that is a whole game. It would be more justifiable if it was say around 50 bucks.

eldarth · August 2014

You all keep saying "Cryptic" when you actually are talking about "Prefect World Entertainment."

lewstelamon01 · August 2014

eldarth wrote: »

You all keep saying "Cryptic" when you actually are talking about "Prefect World Entertainment."

The companies are one and the same. Cryptic Studios is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Perfect World Co., Ltd. as of sometime around April 2011. I'm not precise on the date.

allternare · August 2014

for me the only farce it all is not give a free respec and change race because like almost all the characters need

charononus · August 2014

No matter what game it is, I love these but you promised threads. I've yet to see one actually be true.

charononus · August 2014

magenubbie wrote: »

I'll take that bet. In front of a court too if you should desire.

content (ˈkɒntɛnt) n1. (often plural) everything that is inside a container: the contents of a box.
Now, when I log in I consider myself in the game. A game is a container, the first of which I see is the black Cryptic screen. A part holds my current characters, a part allows me to make a new one, a part contains the sleeping bridge into.. need I continue?

The only excuse not to includes races, which are also in that container called Neverwinter, is to make money off a pack at a fake "discount price" only to allow it to be purchased later for the same price with AD from the zen market.

By that argument nothing can be sold in the zen store and everything has to be given away. Having a paywall race isn't a horrible thing. The only problem in this case is the size of the wall.

lewstelamon01 · August 2014

magenubbie wrote: »

I'll take that bet. In front of a court too if you should desire.

content (ˈkɒntɛnt) n1. (often plural) everything that is inside a container: the contents of a box.
Now, when I log in I consider myself in the game. A game is a container, the first of which I see is the black Cryptic screen. A part holds my current characters, a part allows me to make a new one, a part contains the sleeping bridge into.. need I continue?

The only excuse not to includes races, which are also in that container called Neverwinter, is to make money off a pack at a fake "discount price" only to allow it to be purchased later for the same price with AD from the zen market.

I could likewise make that same argument in reverse--that any and all races available in a subscription based game (see: SWTOR) should be, as part of the subscription price, be made immediately available to all players without the requirement of further payment, via monthly stipend or otherwise. As someone who once subscribed to said game, I can tell you that it is not.

In the end, it's a hair-splitting contest. You can argue the finer points of "content" as much as you would like to, but the bottom line is that the gist of their statement was that exploration and leveling would never be in the ZEN shop.

sockmunkey · August 2014

rhoric wrote: »

Except 75 bucks is too much. I paid 80 bucks for imperial edition for ESO, that is a whole game. It would be more justifiable if it was say around 50 bucks.

And how much have you had to pay to be able to enjoy it? Its been over 4 or 5 months now..so, 60$ in sub costs just to enjoy your original 80$ purchase.

The Dragon pack, might be a bit more initially. But purchasers will never, ever, short of the game closing, have to pay anything additional to continue to use or enjoy it.

rashylewizz · August 2014

I don't think they ever specifically said races.....

shine25 · August 2014

The mods on this forum are amazing, you call out their bias they remove your comment.

devoteoftempus · August 2014

lewstelamon01 wrote: »

No, they actually that all content from 1-60 would be completely free to play. See also: Drow, Moon Elf. You're reading "races" as "content" and that just isn't true.

Dungeons are content. Leveling areas are content. Endgame areas are content. Races, however, are not.

Races ARE conent so quite trying to make excuses for the ****ty shady practices Cryptic is doing. Race is an extreme grey area but Cryptic made it blatenly clear that the store will only be purely cosmetic and vanity items and that is clearly not what races are catogrized as. They have stats bouses, have abilitiy bonuses.... those ARE NOT vanity and cosmetic features. If races aren't content then neither are classes.

I can see that Neverwinter needs to make revenue and when the game was in early Alpha I said that races and classes I don't mind paying a reasonable prices of $10-$20 on similar to how DDO handles their's. However Cryptic made it plainly clear that classes and races would be 100% free. It wouldn't be so bad except for the fact that how they are going about is deceptive and abusive of their customers with the ridiculous pricetag that you are forced to buy a huge bundle where one wants only one item. This practice is percisely why those who get turned away from NWO and never spend a dime. If they had REASONABLE prices and ability to pick what you want then they would be making a lot more money..... well at least the same but more would be playing NWO as the overintrusive cash shop is the no. 1 reason why people quite the game after a trial period.

melodywhr · August 2014

magenubbie wrote: »

I'm not saying there is.

Then don't use salestalk to make fake promises. I read sarcasm online better than I do sales talk.
If you say "all content" you cannot do things like this. If you want to say "the entire world is free for everyone with optional in-game purchases" then say so. Don't hide behind self-invented definitions of the words you use just to attract players, because eventually it'll backfire in your face. The fake "discount" price on the dragonborn pack is a perfect example of this.

Should Cryptic gets its butt sued for these tricks (No I have no desire to do so), there's not a lawyer who's gonna tell them that they've got nothing to worry about. They are just lucky that most people ignore all the mumbo-jumbo and are here for the game itself, which is excellent. That doesn't mean they don't notice the dirty tricks Cryptic's playing.

what dirty tricks?

PWE is a for profit company offering free to play games which means that anyone can play the game for free. even better than that, there is the ability to change in-game earned currency to ZEN (regardless if it's currently slow, it still exists) which means you could either earn most items through in-game play or you can subsidize real money costs with in-game currency.

the fact is the game has overhead costs including servers, network, internet services, rent and salaries. because there are paying customers should make non-pay players happy rather than come to the official forums to complain about how much this is or how some things are behind pay walls. as a for profit company, they are going to try to give players incentives to pay for in-game items even though these items are not required to enjoy all that is free in the game.

dirty tricks?

ysil6969 · August 2014

They have never said races. They said all content, and classes. Specifically mentioned classes. But they have never mentioned races, and pre-beta it was even argued that they wouldn't include races. Because choice of race is cosmetic. Even if being forced into any single race, that would have no effect on you playing the entire game from level 1 to 60 and all dungeons. Purely a choice.

What part of this game is NECESSARY to progress, that is behind the pay wall?

devoteoftempus · August 2014

melodywhr wrote: »

what dirty tricks?

PWE is a for profit company offering free to play games which means that anyone can play the game for free. even better than that, there is the ability to change in-game earned currency to ZEN (regardless if it's currently slow, it still exists) which means you could either earn most items through in-game play or you can subsidize real money costs with in-game currency.

the fact is the game has overhead costs including servers, network, internet services, rent and salaries. because there are paying customers should make non-pay players happy rather than come to the official forums to complain about how much this is or how some things are behind pay walls. as a for profit company, they are going to try to give players incentives to pay for in-game items even though these items are not required to enjoy all that is free in the game.

dirty tricks?

The dirty trick is that you are paying $45 for a $10 meal. If they sold the Dragonborn seperately for reasonable prices of $10-$20 that would be one thing, but instead they force you to buy this huge package for 5x the cost of that single item you want. Also no way does does the package amount to $100, The founders packs were borderline reasonable, but this is downright disgraceful and conning.

ixalmaris · August 2014

melodywhr wrote: »

what dirty tricks?

You mean like lying about a discount which, for many people, resulted in spending more money than they would have after the "sale" ended?
Or about being very close lipped about the Zen market availability in order to ensure, together with the fake sale, that people spend more money on the pack instead of using the Zen they already paid for?

melodywhr · August 2014

devoteoftempus wrote: »

However Cryptic made it plainly clear that classes and races would be 100% free.

here's an article from 2011:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/06/neverwinter-is-now-a-free-to-play-mmo/#null

All quests, areas and expansions will be free, but you'll be able to pay for pets, fancy clothing items and consumables.

here's an article from 2012 quoting Andy Velasquez. funny part about this article is he stated that you'd be able to buy armor and weapons for real money. the only weapons and armor you can buy for real money are starter items.

http://www.polygon.com/2012/11/1/3584768/neverwinter-free-to-play-microtransactions-explained-full-game

The microtransaction-based title will include items such as armor and weapons that the player can purchase for real-world money; However, in-game content such as missions and maps will "absolutely not" be based around a system of microtransactions, says Velasquez.

"You'll be able to access all of the classes without having to pay anything, and we will not be selling powers. It's not like you can just go to the store and buy a level 30 sword as a level 10 character. So we haven't talked too much in terms of the details yet but that's our high level approach," said Velasquez.

another article from 2011:

http://www.mmobomb.com/news/neverwinter-will-be-free-to-play/

However, content packs will remain free and premium content will stick to consumables and cosmetics.

can anyone find an official quote that states races will be free? i saw one article where someone quoted andy velasquez in the statement he made up there but used the words "all content will be free" in paraphrasing andy's quote. while i understand content to be modules/maps and new quests, i can see where that might be confusing BUT that wasn't a direct quote from PWE.

where is the quote that says PWE made a promise that races will be free?

mrgiggles651 · August 2014

"Premium content will stick to consumables and cosmetics"
Not sure how a race is a consumable or a cosmetic, since it's permanent and has unique abilities (ie not cosmetic).

eldarth · August 2014

magenubbie wrote: »

Then maybe they should have thought of that before they made the first thing you see about the game say the word "Cryptic".
Cryptic was bought long before they put NW on alpha status. If they want to be addressed as such, I see no reason to call them anything else. Calling an apple a tomato is confusing to most people.

So, the first thing I see when I go to buy food is "Grocery Store." I get inside and find out that the Store is selling Frito Lay chips for $100 a bag. So, I should write a letter to Frito Lay complaining that Frito Lay is selling potato chips for $100??

Cryptic = Manufacturer
PWE = Distributor

ixalmaris · August 2014

melodywhr wrote: »

where is the quote that says PWE made a promise that races will be free?

You just posted them.
Races are not consumables and because they have unique abilities are not cosmetics either.

melodywhr · August 2014

ixalmaris wrote: »

You just posted them.
Races are not consumables and because they have unique abilities are not cosmetics either.

that isn't an exact quote. that is your perception of what is provided for free. neverwinter started with a limited access race. the dragonborn is no different.

in the one article i saw where the author was paraphrasing velasquez's statement where they used the word "content" and velasquez never used that word... but content could be defined by many different things. if PWE has offered varied races behind paywalls in the past, then it is safe to say that your perception is incorrect.

ixalmaris · August 2014

melodywhr wrote: »

that isn't an exact quote. that is your perception of what is provided for free. neverwinter started with a limited access race. the dragonborn is no different.

So why do you not provide exact quotes?

And the only reason the paid Drow were accepted in the beginning was because a free version of the drow were going to be available later. But nothing like this is planned for Dragonborn.

lewstelamon01 · August 2014

ixalmaris wrote: »

So why do you not provide exact quotes?

And the only reason the paid Drow were accepted in the beginning was because a free version of the drow were going to be available later. But nothing like this is planned for Dragonborn.

Emphasis on planned.

Remember when this game came out and cryptic promised us

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