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Potions in PvP - Please Disable Them

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  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited August 2014

    Spending AD for potions is no more tactical than using steroids in professional sports.

    Again comparing the whole world of sports and the illegal act of doping to a the legal act of consuming a digital potion in a small portion of a video game, is extreme hyperbole.

    This thread has become a Pay 2 win argument and should be closed.

    They are not expensive or hard to attain (for absolutely free). In my polling of games last night, less than 10% of players were potion poppers, so just stop.
  • vedran541vedran541 Member Posts: 199 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I have asked for this countless of times and a few threads i think, but i dont think they will disable elixirs in PvP because of the AD sink. But it would make a whole lot of sense.

    In other MMOs, elixirs are only allowed in PvE, but in neverwinters case the PvE is so easy that no one cares. The PvP is the real challenge and players do everything to get an advantage. Which i dont blame them since they have the possibility.

    But its lame, as hell.

    As soon as you enter domination, you should not be able to activate, pocket pets, doohickeys, elixirs nor swap out gear/artifacts.
    It should be an as even playing field as possible, if you look away from the fact that people got different enchants and gear of course. But enchants and gear is what people should strive to attain, not a bunch of elixirs.

    Some players already have an advantage over new players with their enchants and profound gear (which takes some time to get). That should be enough IMO. With all the coins, elixirs etc, i can imagine how low GS players get demotivated to do PvP and im sure plenty of them give up and never return just because of the advantage other players have.

    I think disabling elixirs is a big step into the right direction of inviting more people to do PvP, and more players to stay in the game. Because face it, who stays for the PvE anyways? =D
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    I have to say, if you're looking for PvP unskewed by throwing resources at it, then you're probably playing the wrong game, OP. You're just riddling while foam burns if you believe that removing pots in PvP would make much difference, when you're up against a team stacked with R10s and perfects, gained either by spending hundreds/thousands or by cheating.
  • yuccapalmyuccapalm Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 195 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    They are not expensive or hard to attain (for absolutely free). In my polling of games last night, less than 10% of players were potion poppers, so just stop.

    10 days of invoking to play 1 hour with 5 pots is not hard to attain? xD not to mention 20k + AD for the other 5-10 potions/ buff food if thats not expensive in your eyes then your disenchanted.
  • sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    As far as i can see there is some balance system on pvp domi match. it not depend on your gear score but on your classment in pvp.
    Of course is not perfect. but by what i can see it exist. it not help when full team queue. it neither help when let say the best of 10 is rank 1 and the second is on page /1000. most of look like unbalance team because most player doN,t wait other teammate when they are dead and it often give the result as people are comming one by one vs 4 or even 5 player of the other team. and of course in that case most solo player are dead in 3 second
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    yuccapalm wrote: »
    10 days of invoking to play 1 hour with 5 pots is not hard to attain? xD not to mention 20k + AD for the other 5-10 potions/ buff food if thats not expensive in your eyes then your disenchanted.

    I find logging in to invoke the absolute easiest thing to do that you are rewarded for in game. Do you find it hard to do?

    20k AD....is pocket change, also not hard to get.


    If you want to spend that or think it is mandatory to do so to beat that 10% of the players that use pots, that is your choice. But don't try and play it off as expensive.
  • jrfbrunetjrfbrunet Member Posts: 388 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    This thread has become a Pay 2 win argument and should be closed.

    This thread was started by a moderator. Will it be closed by the same moderator? Lol
    Where'd my blinky-blinky path go?
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Please disable all potions in PvP...

    Simple.

    Frankly I don't even want PvP potions but at the very least I am tired of losing matches because everybody on the enemy team not only builds for PvP and has PvP gear but also has a buff bar that goes halfway across my screen.

    It's bad enough dealing with somebody with a PvP specific build and better gear without also having to deal with them buffed to all hell by fifteen different potions. The solution can't even be 'pot up too' unless you truly expect every person to waste AD on potions that have an effect which expire when a player is killed.

    The cold hard truth is the only people who use potions are those who have the gear to know they won't die. I'm good enough of a PvPer to be competitive against players with far superior PvP builds and gear but I can not be competitive against their potions.

    100% Agree.

    My opinion is they should "nullify" the effects of BUFFs in PVP - so things like Heroism would still show on your character but give no benefits when under the effects of "healing depression" if that makes sense.

    They have done this type of coding in IWD making PVE potions not useable while under HD, so they could probably find a way to null buff potion effects while under HD as well.

    I do think they should provide a GLORY "BUFF" potion though. Maybe a potion like heroism that gives a +1 to all stats but it costs like 500+ Glory or something.... This gives a "glory sink" for some players as well as SOMETHING to make up for some of the potion loss. Having it glory specific and ONE potion I think makes it fair - its the difference between praying and not praying at the beginning of a match, or respawning and not waiting for the fire buff.... So I think its not MASSIVE difference IMO.

    OVERALL POINT: 1000000% agree, There are SO many PVE buffs you can add to a character like feasts, capresse(sp?) etc. I know you can add a TON of stats and HP just through pots alone and its a BIGGER different than a few ranks in enchants...

    Comparing a fully potted character to a non potted is like comparing a Rank 7 to a rank 10 player... Its not MINOR stats its a pretty big advantage....
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ayroux wrote: »


    I do think they should provide a GLORY "BUFF" potion though. Maybe a potion like heroism that gives a +1 to all stats but it costs like 500+ Glory or something.... This gives a "glory sink" for some players as well as SOMETHING to make up for some of the potion loss. Having it glory specific and ONE potion I think makes it fair - its the difference between praying and not praying at the beginning of a match, or respawning and not waiting for the fire buff.... So I think its not MASSIVE difference IMO.

    Remove pots that everyone can get to pots that only those with extra glory can get?

    Plz no, newbies at a disadvantage as they are saving for gear.
  • yuccapalmyuccapalm Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 195 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    I find logging in to invoke the absolute easiest thing to do that you are rewarded for in game. Do you find it hard to do?

    20k AD....is pocket change, also not hard to get.


    If you want to spend that or think it is mandatory to do so to beat that 10% of the players that use pots, that is your choice. But don't try and play it off as expensive.

    Ok you are completly disenchanted. Of course its easy to log in and get a pot every 2 days but since I have only 2 chars you have to wait 6 days to get a set of pots. If you want to play more than 2-3 games in those 6 days your invoking will not help and you need to buy them.

    20k AD is a lot if you play basically PvP and especially 20-40k every 1-2 days, depends on how much PvP you do. It's completly unreachable for new players who need to spend their AD for enchants.
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    yuccapalm wrote: »
    Ok you are completly disenchanted. Of course its easy to log in and get a pot every 2 days but since I have only 2 chars you have to wait 6 days to get a set of pots. If you want to play more than 2-3 games in those 6 days your invoking will not help and you need to buy them.

    20k AD is a lot if you play basically PvP and especially 20-40k every 1-2 days, depends on how much PvP you do. It's completly unreachable for new players who need to spend their AD for enchants.

    So, you want to put less effort into the game than others but have them at the same vantage point as you? I am confused.

    The effort I am talking about is minimal.

    You can get Fate elixirs after 3 days, not 5.

    on PvP day you can earn 4k, 4k and 8k AD just from 2 PvP matches! (4 if bad luck). You will NEVER convince me 20k AD is hard to make or that praying for potions is hard.
  • loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I think you guys are confuse Domination with a competitive environment. It's not and pots are only a very minor reason for that.

    If there was a true competitive environment (solo queue, strict matchmaking), I'd be all for eliminating buffs. Right now, it wouldn't change the landscape.
  • yuccapalmyuccapalm Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 195 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    So, you want to put less effort into the game than others but have them at the same vantage point as you? I am confused.

    The effort I am talking about is minimal.

    You can get Fate elixirs after 3 days, not 5.

    on PvP day you can earn 4k, 4k and 8k AD just from 2 PvP matches! (4 if bad luck). You will NEVER convince me 20k AD is hard to make or that praying for potions is hard.

    I think you dont WANT to understand it. Fate elixir 3 days rest of the elixirs 1 per 2 days = 10 days of invoking for 3 fate elixir and one of each other elixir for 1 hour playtime with 6 pots so CAN'T have pots when ever I need them from ONLY invoking. 8k AD per day is only TWO elixirs but where do I get the other 5-10 buffs from´?
  • chihuabchihuab Member Posts: 71
    edited August 2014
    This is kind of my view. Why can't I use my PvE Healing Potions if I can use PvE Buff Potions?

    Gear is earned over time. It's natural progression. Potions are not.

    Potions are a paid consumable. Using them is directly costing money for a temporary advantage.

    What's the old saying? You can buy a man a meal and feed him for a day but if you teach him to cook you'll feed him for a lifetime? Something like that?

    Well when it comes to video games I only buy the latter. I have no problem investing in gear, runes and artifacts. I have no issue facing off against people who have invested more in gear, runes and artifacts than me. However I do have a problem facing people who are spending money on temporary advantages.

    Potions aren't "preparing" for PvP. That's just an excuse to make it seem fair. Everybody has access to them but people should not be required to spend money on temporary buffs to be competitive. PvP should be like learning to cook, not buying meals.

    And if it's not then let me use my PvE healing potions, companions and companion activated bonuses.

    "Gear is earned over time" --- This is PLAIN WRONG. I can buy rank 10s, perfect wep/armor enchantments, upgrade all my artifacts to legendary on the same day, I can even buy relics to get all my dread ring boons right away. That's also unfair to people without maxed out gears, should we just disable the use of enchantments altogether?


    I see people with r10s, legendary artifacts as having "permanent potions" that gives them permanent unfair advantage, so your temporary vs permanent argument is totally invalid.
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    I'm feeling like a broken record now...

    Gear is an expected advantage every time. You will earn better gear by playing the game.

    Buff potions in PvP is akin to adding a 50K, for the sake of numbers, fee to queue for PvP.

    That's not dedication. Let's say they removed pots from PvP but said every time you queue you have to spend 50K AD. How would you feel?

    Well that's what you chucklebrains are saying. It's okay you can spend 50K per match too! No...that's not okay. I shouldn't be expected to pay a fee to participate in PvP. And if me and my team ends up sitting in the base because the enemy team is paying 50K per match then we're not participating.

    this +

    You cant compare gear and potions, every player in the game can get the best armor and weapons without paying at all but to get them potions every time you pvp it adds up to a large amount of AD. there is 3 different types of pvpers, the new guys who have around 6-12k gs, the good pvpers that have decent gear around 13-15k gs and then the people who have either payed a lot or played the game a very long time who have 16-21k gs now the people who have maxed char are at an advantage already, they can out dps you and survive better and now since they dont need to spend AD on anything else they can buy potions and other buffs.

    The 2 pets can give a good stat bonus then the doohickey for a little extra dps.

    with all the buffs from the items that some players use it can increase there dps by 15% and all stats like crit chance, severity, deflect chance and severity, even hp. There char will be buffed up and gain a huge advantage.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fantasycharacterfantasycharacter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 675 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    yuccapalm wrote: »
    . 8k AD per day is only TWO elixirs but where do I get the other 5-10 buffs from´?

    That's where that whole "a little effort" thing I was talking about comes in ;)

    Play the game a bit, rank up your leadership and you would be at a better vantage point. Continue to just pvp and put in no effort to earn rewards, be left behind. PvP = arms race...always will....know this!

    Again, I do not see more than 10% of people using pots...weigh the effort you want to put in to battle those folks.
    Do they use pots every time or is this their once a week hour that they get to be buffed up?

    I just don't see it as a problem....10% of the people using...easy to get for everyone...has a whole market of buyers and sellers (you wouldn't just destroy pvp use with removing them but destroy the demand and the market for pots).
  • chihuabchihuab Member Posts: 71
    edited August 2014
    I'm feeling like a broken record now...

    Gear is an expected advantage every time. You will earn better gear by playing the game.

    Buff potions in PvP is akin to adding a 50K, for the sake of numbers, fee to queue for PvP.

    That's not dedication. Let's say they removed pots from PvP but said every time you queue you have to spend 50K AD. How would you feel?

    Well that's what you chucklebrains are saying. It's okay you can spend 50K per match too! No...that's not okay. I shouldn't be expected to pay a fee to participate in PvP. And if me and my team ends up sitting in the base because the enemy team is paying 50K per match then we're not participating.

    You forgot to include these into the "fee to queue for PvP" :

    1) Perfect vorpal + perfect barkshield/soulforged =~20-30M
    2) r10s * 12 = ~40-50M
    3) Legendary artifacts * 3 = ~15M for upgrade

    100M is the real cost of the fee to participate in PVP

    But you know what, I'm 100% sure you can earn those by simply "playing the game" :D
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    chihuab wrote: »
    You forgot to include these into the "fee to queue for PvP" :

    1) Perfect vorpal + perfect barkshield/soulforged =~20-30M
    2) r10s * 12 = ~40-50M
    3) Legendary artifacts * 3 = ~15M for upgrade

    100M is the real cost of the fee to participate in PVP

    But you know what, I'm 100% sure you can earn those by simply "playing the game" :D

    I think he meant, t2 armor and gear like that :) because yeah what some players have achieved is only possible through either spending ridiculous amounts of money or farming AD for 1 year lol. 100 mil AD is just crazy....
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gomok72gomok72 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    melodywhr wrote: »
    does disabling potions include pocket pets, lucky coins and those doohickeys?

    if potions give an unfair advantage and if they disable them, then they should just make everyone fight with the same stats across the board to be fair.

    then each pvp match is a battle of skill. yes?

    In this game, it's more of a battle of who knows about items and how big your pocket book is in real life, (Currently my pockets are swollen;)
    I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.

    -Kymos
  • discriminatingdiscriminating Member Posts: 86
    edited August 2014
    Once again, you all are arguing about a very, very small percentage of PvPers. Do you honestly believe that every person that joins a Dom match is in all R10s with perfects and multiple pots running except for you?

    For those that are, whether they earned those items playing the game or they earned those items by paying for them with real world cash, they still earned them. Stop trying to modify the entire PvP landscape to satisfy your desire to put 5% of the players in their place. It's ridiculous and this is exactly how devastating global nerfs happen that ruin classes and arenas.
  • yuccapalmyuccapalm Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 195 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    chihuab wrote: »
    You forgot to include these into the "fee to queue for PvP" :

    1) Perfect vorpal + perfect barkshield/soulforged =~20-30M
    2) r10s * 12 = ~40-50M
    3) Legendary artifacts * 3 = ~15M for upgrade

    100M is the real cost of the fee to participate in PVP

    But you know what, I'm 100% sure you can earn those by simply "playing the game" :D

    Nice troll post. I think more than 50% of the ppl in top 10 pages of PvP dont even have a legendary artifact. And 90+% dont have full rank 10s. You can easily earn this by playing the game I payed about 10 mil for my 2 perfect enchants and 7 mil for 2 legendary artifacts and 1 rank 90. Back in beta you could farm CN for 1-5 mil per run and T2 items went for around 1 mil each. Even now you can make ridiculous amounts by farming dungeons.
  • crixus8000crixus8000 Member Posts: 1,205 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    yuccapalm wrote: »
    Nice troll post. I think more than 50% of the ppl in top 10 pages of PvP dont even have a legendary artifact. And 90+% dont have full rank 10s. You can easily earn this by playing the game I payed about 10 mil for my 2 perfect enchants and 7 mil for 2 legendary artifacts and 1 rank 90. Back in beta you could farm CN for 1-5 mil per run and T2 items went for around 1 mil each. Even now you can make ridiculous amounts by farming dungeons.

    His numberes are wrong but it does cost a lot for a maxed char.

    Last time i checked prices on AH it was like this:

    Perfect armor and wep enchants - 12 mil

    All rank 10s - around 48 mil

    Legendaries I'm not sure, but on test shard i have them and it took an insane amount to make so I would say maybe 15 - 30 mil ? guessing or more so for a fully maxed char it is coming up to 100 million AD and the only possible way to have made this is by playing when he game was first released, since things was easier then and prices was cheaper or to pay real money.
    Crixus - PVP GF
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rabbinicusrabbinicus Member Posts: 1,822 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    yuccapalm wrote: »
    No one is forcing you to not use them in PvE thats what they are made for. As I said they create huge imbalances in PvP and I'm forced to use them if I want to win the game against enemies who use them thats why I got a few of every pot in my inventar. A friend of mine got 99 of every pot and flask in his inventory In case enemies use them I think he wasted over 3 mil for this, things have come to a pretty pass :D

    No, you're not forced to use them but you make a choice to do so. You aren't forced to have T2 gear either, but it helps. In effect, this entire thread is a) a demand to take away something other players use and b) devolved into a "pay two win" complaint and needs to be closed.
    The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.


  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    This has run far enough and is no longer productive. Closing this down.
    ROLL TIDE ROLL

    Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?

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