Potions in PvP - Please Disable Them

ambisinisterr · August 2014

Please disable all potions in PvP...

Simple.

Frankly I don't even want PvP potions but at the very least I am tired of losing matches because everybody on the enemy team not only builds for PvP and has PvP gear but also has a buff bar that goes halfway across my screen.

It's bad enough dealing with somebody with a PvP specific build and better gear without also having to deal with them buffed to all hell by fifteen different potions. The solution can't even be 'pot up too' unless you truly expect every person to waste AD on potions that have an effect which expire when a player is killed.

The cold hard truth is the only people who use potions are those who have the gear to know they won't die. I'm good enough of a PvPer to be competitive against players with far superior PvP builds and gear but I can not be competitive against their potions.

ripyourlipsoff · August 2014

I totally agree, you get these super guilds that farm PvE potions and use them in PvP whilst most us PvPers only have basic pots from drops!

I think PvE potions should only be for Owpvp and pve only!

PvP potion should be a healing potion and that's it! I too see players with 15 buffs whilst I have maybe 1-2 or nothing

ambisinisterr · August 2014

I am well aware there is no PvP buff potion...which is the issue.

I would be happier if there were no PvP Healing potions. However the PvE buff potions are completely overpowered especially since there are so many this day in age and they do stack with each other.

List of All Potions - On top of the basic buff potions these same players also have Elixirs and the first six that are categorized under "other potions."

I'm not sure how anybody can argue the use of those potions aren't an unfair advantage. Especially since, other than the elixir's, they go away after death it really just makes the hard to kill that much harder to kill. And if you are decently outgeared to begin with it's just logical deduction that using potions to compete with their use of potions will result in you having to use more potions than them.

It's an unfair advantage. I want to avoid saying Pay to Win but I mean...they spend AD on these potions to use in PvP to give them an advantage against people who don't have/want to waste the AD on consumable buffs. I mean it's one thing that you can always aspire to get better gear over time but another altogether to expect people to spend AD on potions in order to be competitive in PvP.

You want to add PvP Potion Buffs? Again...I hate potions. I don't think they belong anywhere near PvP as it directly creates a haves and have nots...

But at least if they were limited to PvP Buff potions only it would feign some sort of competitive balance.

hfgtfsdfs · August 2014

I agree, pots and food and all the other **** in PvP sucks.

schweifer1982 · August 2014

ambisinisterr wrote: »

I am well aware there is no PvP buff potion...which is the issue.

I would be happier if there were no PvP Healing potions. However the PvE buff potions are completely overpowered especially since there are so many this day in age and they do stack with each other.

List of All Potions - On top of the basic buff potions these same players also have Elixirs and the first six that are categorized under "other potions."

I'm not sure how anybody can argue the use of those potions aren't an unfair advantage. Especially since, other than the elixir's, they go away after death it really just makes the hard to kill that much harder to kill. And if you are decently outgeared to begin with it's just logical deduction that using potions to compete with their use of potions will result in you having to use more potions than them.

It's an unfair advantage. I want to avoid saying Pay to Win but I mean...they spend AD on these potions to use in PvP to give them an advantage against people who don't have/want to waste the AD on consumable buffs. I mean it's one thing that you can always aspire to get better gear over time but another altogether to expect people to spend AD on potions in order to be competitive in PvP.

You want to add PvP Potion Buffs? Again...I hate potions. I don't think they belong anywhere near PvP as it directly creates a haves and have nots...

But at least if they were limited to PvP Buff potions only it would feign some sort of competitive balance.

PVP is a smal part of the game .
Potion are not game breaking .
Also you are here from May 2012 i think you played this game from beta too. So you must know PVP balance and other demanding threads do more harm to pve balance then anything else .

Well you and all other players have many options to get pvp potions . As any one else so its fair and balanced . From other perspective: If eixirs or potion where only avaible to zen store then i would say y have rigth to demand this change .
But potions drop from every single lvl 60 mobs also you can craft it from alchemy .

PS:"i rearly potions "

ripyourlipsoff · August 2014

ambisinisterr wrote: »

I am well aware there is no PvP buff potion...which is the issue.

I would be happier if there were no PvP Healing potions. However the PvE buff potions are completely overpowered especially since there are so many this day in age and they do stack with each other.

List of All Potions - On top of the basic buff potions these same players also have Elixirs and the first six that are categorized under "other potions."

I'm not sure how anybody can argue the use of those potions aren't an unfair advantage. Especially since, other than the elixir's, they go away after death it really just makes the hard to kill that much harder to kill. And if you are decently outgeared to begin with it's just logical deduction that using potions to compete with their use of potions will result in you having to use more potions than them.

It's an unfair advantage. I want to avoid saying Pay to Win but I mean...they spend AD on these potions to use in PvP to give them an advantage against people who don't have/want to waste the AD on consumable buffs. I mean it's one thing that you can always aspire to get better gear over time but another altogether to expect people to spend AD on potions in order to be competitive in PvP.

You want to add PvP Potion Buffs? Again...I hate potions. I don't think they belong anywhere near PvP as it directly creates a haves and have nots...

But at least if they were limited to PvP Buff potions only it would feign some sort of competitive balance.

Many of us have nothing to gain with glory? So if they made PvE potions only useable in PvE, and maybe made some PvP potion comparable purchased with Glory,, at least we PvPers with all our gear would have something to purchase.

schweifer1982 · August 2014

Well this game is dnd .(only the lore but devs still try to bring more element from D&D)
We dont have Real buffers LIKE True Cleric. But we have potions and those potions are realy not soo powerfull .
Belive it or not in D&D potions have much more brutal effect like Potion of Full Healing /or Barkskin etc.....

Also skill vs potion ? What do you think how will win ?
Even if a player have 18k GS but he have terrible laag will lose aganst 5-6 k GS player. (is this fair?)

If ppl complain to disable the potions from pvp,what will be the next step? : Disable enchants disable mounts disable artifacts disable DC ......

Naked pvp?

ripyourlipsoff · August 2014

schweifer1982 wrote: »

PVP is a smal part of the game .
Potion are not game breaking .
Also you are here from May 2012 i think you played this game from beta too. So you must know PVP balance and other demanding threads do more harm to pve balance then anything else .

Well you and all other players have many options to get pvp potions . As any one else so its fair and balanced . From other perspective: If eixirs or potion where only avaible to zen store then i would say y have rigth to demand this change .
But potions drop from every single lvl 60 mobs also you can craft it from alchemy .

PS:"i rearly potions "

How would making PvE potions only useable in PvE, bad for PvE?

lycragirl · August 2014

Wait...What?

I don't get this thread at all. I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a fan of pvp. I do it for my dailies and the bit of glory towards my raven skull, not for fun.

Potions are one of the more ubiquitous drops in the game. They really are available to every player, old or new. Unlike perfects and such which are practically unattainable now for a new comer.

PvP is not stripped of external performance enhancing materials either. Everyone is geared to the best their AD will allow, which is different for all. I often get teamed against people 3k better than me.

I wasn't aware that potions worked in PvP though, so I thank the OP for bringing it to my attention. I can stop selling the hundreds that drop to a vendor now and might last more than 15 seconds in the ring.

magiquepurse · August 2014

Most people in the PvP community abhor potions.

In premades you HAVE to use them or you WILL lose, because the adversary will pot up when they spawn and see your names/guild already.

If you are interested on cold hard facts:

- the normal ardent elixirs (they are not the only pots) add about 7 (seven) Rank 10s and some procs
- celestial elixir adds +1 to your rolls
- the thing from Sharandar another +1 to main/sec rolls
- alchemy flasks even add more stats, maybe around 3-4 more Rank 10s
- food is another proc or whatever, such as generating AP over time by doing nothing

So you will end up fighting people with at least 7-8 Rank 10s more than you in average. I can tell you from personal experience it is (almost) impossible to win against them - if they are decent players.

Now, about the costs.

I have spent more than 150.000 AD for a SINGLE PREMADE GAME. Yes, you read that correctly. A premade might last 2-3 hours. This means 3 rounds of elixirs and hell knows how many flasks and food that disappear on death.

But, I doubt anything will be done against this. I'm not sure if you noticed, dear OP, but Cryptic does their very best to dry your character of AD.

You think they will do anything to facilitate your char making more AD? I doubt it. This game is actively fighting against its own players.

Most important thing is that when both teams have the elixirs, their advantages are NEGATED, making them useless. So it is just pretty much a way to make you waste AD, because only an idiot will not use them when their adversary are fully drunk on elixirs.

silence1x · August 2014

Let's fact it folks - if PvP is all that you do in NW then chances are you will min/max everything including how to augment yourself using pots, buffs, artifacts, etc.

Researching the numbers is too much work for me. If they want to do it, have at it. It really isn't an indication of skill if you have to "pot up" before or at the beginning of a match. It means that you rely more on the "helpers" than your skill. You'll never be able to counter that unless you have skill yourself (of which I am still lacking in many regards).

I regularly die to players using these items. I'm in there for the achievements, not the bragging rights of the Leaderboard, and only on two toons out of 5. I don't do PvP every day but I do run the Rhix/Trade of Blades quests a few times a week as well as GG PvP. Once I get those, I'll rarely visit PvP. I find the usual PvP'ers attitude boring and predictable.

yuccapalm · August 2014

schweifer1982 wrote: »

Potion are not game breaking .

You know the buffs from potions right?

2 to all stats (2% crit, 1% deflect, 900 hp, 2% armor pen, 2% dmg and sprint reg, 2% less cooldowns etc. on my gwf

the grand summer feast which is around 1k hp 1.5% deflect 5% power 5% recovery 1.5% crit chance 2.5% deflect

caprese 3% deflect 1200 hp

the flasks which grant 225 def and deflect and 1k hp ant the other one 225 power crit recovery + 7.5% crit damage.

The 1 hour pots who give 300 from a stat + (crit and deflect servery, stackable power etc. etc.

+ the various event bufffood

Calculate all of it and the stats are more than 5k + gear score.

schweifer1982 · August 2014

yuccapalm wrote: »

You know the buffs from potions right?

2 to all stats (2% crit, 1% deflect, 900 hp, 2% armor pen, 2% dmg and sprint reg, 2% less cooldowns etc. on my gwf

the grand summer feast which is around 1k hp 1.5% deflect 5% power 5% recovery 1.5% crit chance 2.5% deflect

caprese 3% deflect 1200 hp

the flasks which grant 225 def and deflect and 1k hp ant the other one 225 power crit recovery + 7.5% crit damage.

The 1 hour pots who give 300 from a stat + (crit and deflect servery, stackable power etc. etc.

+ the various event bufffood

Calculate all of it and the stats are more than 5k + gear score.

2 to all stats (2% crit, 1% deflect, 900 hp, 2% armor pen, 2% dmg and sprint reg, 2% less cooldowns etc

They dont stack.

ripyourlipsoff · August 2014

schweifer1982 wrote: »

Well this game is dnd .(only the lore but devs still try to bring more element from D&D)
We dont have Real buffers LIKE True Cleric. But we have potions and those potions are realy not soo powerfull .
Belive it or not in D&D potions have much more brutal effect like Potion of Full Healing /or Barkskin etc.....

Also skill vs potion ? What do you think how will win ?
Even if a player have 18k GS but he have terrible laag will lose aganst 5-6 k GS player. (is this fair?)

If ppl complain to disable the potions from pvp,what will be the next step? : Disable enchants disable mounts disable artifacts disable DC ......

Naked pvp?

I think you're being ridiculous! Disabling potions that were purchased and or dropped in PVE for PVE in PVP has nothing to do with removing gear and enchants? Its about balance dude! What do you not understand?

There should be nothing in PVP but wits and gear. Period!

18k GWF vs 18k GWF with 15 potion buffs, who wins? Don't answer we all know.

ripyourlipsoff · August 2014

magenubbie wrote: »

I'll go even further than that. If you want true PvP everyone should be wearing the same gear, preferably stat- and enchantment-less.
That's when it's truly skill against skill. But, as in all physical sports, people are allowed to use different materials to ride or wear if they think that gives them an advantage. So I suppose "naked" PvP is out of the question. But a doping free competition isn't too much to ask for I think.

Everyone does wear the same gear! Its either Grim, Profound or Black Ice... Everyone uses the same enchants too!

ripyourlipsoff · August 2014

There's still a huge difference between BI gear and grim gear. As for enchants, there's a lot of difference between players lucky enough to buy botted enchants to get perfects and r100 artifacts and those that cannot. But as I said, gear differences are allowed in almost all sports, so I don't expect "naked" PvP to ever come to exist. But I still think it would make a nice feature even if implemented alongside what we have now.

Yea the leveling of a character and the grind for gear is a pain but its an excepted method in all MMORPGs, having elite guilds farm PvE potions and foods for non PvP content shouldn't be... They should be for PvE content only!

emilemo · August 2014

magenubbie wrote: »

While I agree with schweifer1982 where he says potions are available through various means besides AD, I'm going to have to side with Ambi on this. Not even because potions give an unfair advantage to some people, because, as said before, we can all get them if we want to.

But I believe true PvP is an unbuffed event. It's supposed to be you(r team) against the other('s team). Skill vs skill. Teamwork vs teamwork. Potions can compensate for a lot of lack of skill and can make you perform way above your normal level. To me, using buffs in PvP is the same as using doping in sports.
There's no doping allowed in sports. Therefor buffs in PvP shouldn't be allowed either.

I'm sure someone is going to say "Well you allow buffs in PvE, so why not in PvP?" Well, Mobs have no right to complain about unfairness, have they? They are evil, and any advantage you have over evil is a good thing. PvP is not a fight against evil. It's a competition with and against real players. And competitions are supposed to be clean of external performance enhancing materials.

A noble yet naive outlook on PVP indeed. In reality Neverwitner PVP is all about gear vs gear and build vs build, where the viable builds can be found in guides and the gear is farmed by everyone. So you see, the way you describe is not the Neverwinter way

galaxy1045 · August 2014

What is the difference between me using potions and a LPF and you using a perfect vorpal which I can never afford?
Your vorpal lasts longer than my pots, I guess.

galaxy1045 · August 2014

yuccapalm wrote: »

He doesn't ask for nerfs he wants them to be disable in PvP because Pots and buff food dont belong there.

And elixir of fate and potion of heroism stacks.

How do enchantments go in PvP? Should they not be disabled as well?

ripyourlipsoff · August 2014

galaxy1045 wrote: »

How do enchantments go in PvP? Should they not be disabled as well?

Just silly! gear has enchantment slots... As such it is part of the game. PvE / PvP are different parts of the game and as such PvP potions do not work in PvE - PvE potions should not work in PvP!

crazymikee · August 2014

ripyourlipsoff wrote: »

Just silly! gear has enchantment slots... As such it is part of the game. PvE / PvP are different parts of the game and as such PvP potions do not work in PvE - PvE potions should not work in PvP!

The counter argument is just that Pots are in the game and can be used anywhere, including PvP, and most of them, are relatively cheap and available to everyone, and there not PvE potions there just potions xD

silverkelt · August 2014

magenubbie wrote: »

I agree my idea of "naked" pvp is a dream that'll never come true. I already said so. People value the ability to hide behind outgearing their opponent and buffs too much to value real sportsmanship. As you said, it's not the Neverwinter way.

But I never objected to different builds. Athletes use different training routines all the time. No problem there. I would like to note though that builds are not much of a discussion these days . If you're not a halfling with max con there's not much room to win matches at higher level. Skills are almost as set in stone for each of the 3 classes as race and ability points are. Sure you have the option to not follow an optimal build or join with another class, but you won't get anywhere if you do.

But back to the original topic: It's the doping (buff) use I have a problem with.

ITs a little bit of a stretch to compare in game legit acquisition of pots to PEDs acquired to athletes, I think a better analogy would be compare people who "didnt acquire gear" in a legitimate way to that. There are alot of those type of players still trumpeting themselves around and like cheating athletes, seems to me they should be banned.

silverkelt · August 2014

crazymikee wrote: »

The counter argument is just that Pots are in the game and can be used anywhere, including PvP, and most of them, are relatively cheap and available to everyone, and there not PvE potions there just potions xD

I agree... not sure why you would call them pve specific.

Its not like ALL pvp gear is gotten through strictly PVP. (you can get up to Grim level pvp with doing NO pvp at all, you can get BI sets through no PVP at all (but good luck with that.. argh cryptic!)

Its like saying you can only wear profound and no enchants except for those you purchased via the daily reward system in dom matching.

Again, Im not a proponent either way, just saying, I think some of the arguments against them seem a little off to me.

iwaslagging · August 2014

bad idea since its a source of ad income for many players
its hard to make ad as it is removing the elixirs would dmg lower gear players in the end

rashylewizz · August 2014

I wouldn't be opposed to disabling them.

lycragirl · August 2014

ripyourlipsoff wrote: »

They're plentiful to you! I don't PvE... I hate dungeons! Why should you get advantage over me because you like PvE content? That would be like PvP offering up amazing Potions for PVE... You'd be pissed.

Um, well I am kind of of forced to PvP if I want to max out my AD earning potential and make glory for artefacts. I'm not terribly pissed off by it. In fact I'd say my poor team mates are probably more annoyed than I am.

Considering my knowledge of PvP is really very limited, I should probably have stayed out of this debate, I'm just very surprised by it. There are so many things in this game that are genuinely out of reach for a lot of people like me who are new to the game, but potions aren't one of them.

Potions in PvP - Please Disable Them

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