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Gearscore in PvP
arimikami
Member Posts: 439 Arc User
I've seen comments on here, and in game, complaining about people with low gear scores in PvP. I've even been told that I should not queue for domination matches until I have a higher GS. Try looking at that from the side of the new player.
A new level 60 in full T1 PvP gear is only going to have about a 9k GS unless they take the time to farm, or spend the cash, to get high level enchants and those aren't going to push the GS too much higher. Expecting a new player that's just reached level 60 to have much more than 9-10k GS simply isn't realistic.
To increase your gear score, you need better gear. To get better PvP gear, you need glory. To get glory, you need to PvP. Telling someone that they shouldn't PvP until their gear score is higher is counter productive.
Most new players that PvP aren't likely to get in a PvP guild right away which means they're less likely to find premades to help them get easy glory, assuming a premade would even allow someone with a low GS onto their team for a match.
In addition to that, new players have to deal with you, the established PvPer with high end gear, enchants, and weapon and armor enchants that come and farm us to pad your kill count until many new players decide to say screw it, get their 600 points out of a match so they get some glory, and then sit at the campfire for the remainder of the match while you guys tell us how much we suck for not being fully geared out and the CWs on the other team try to attack us from the base of our camp in a desperate attempt to get one more kill before the match ends, thus ensuring that our attempts to actually get our gear up to a competitive level are long, tedious, and frustrating.
I've also been told that I should only do Gauntlgrym until I have a full set of T2s. Farming random HAMSTER for an hour and then doing a two minute match once every two hours that only gives out a handful of coins isn't PvPing. If matches lasted longer, thereby allowing people to get better rewards for a match, or if it could be queued for more often, that might be an option. At the same time, if that was the case, the more established PvPers would most likely be there more often as well, making the point moot.
Given all this, established PvPers have three realistic options. The one that seems to be the most common is also the most foolish.
1) You can harass, berate, and farm new players until they get fed up, quit PvPing, and help ensure the slow death of the portion of the game that you seem to enjoy the most.
2) You can go to Icewind Dale. Given the constraints put in place on going there, it's likely going to be some time before a new player is able to enter that portion of the game, meaning that most people you come across are already going to be at least somewhat established and that you won't come across any of the "under geared" PvPers that some of you seem to loathe so much.
3) You can help these new players find ways to actually be useful in a match so they're not such a detriment to your win/loss ratio.
Just some venting from someone that does actually know how to be helpful in a match where most people severely out gear me.
A new level 60 in full T1 PvP gear is only going to have about a 9k GS unless they take the time to farm, or spend the cash, to get high level enchants and those aren't going to push the GS too much higher. Expecting a new player that's just reached level 60 to have much more than 9-10k GS simply isn't realistic.
To increase your gear score, you need better gear. To get better PvP gear, you need glory. To get glory, you need to PvP. Telling someone that they shouldn't PvP until their gear score is higher is counter productive.
Most new players that PvP aren't likely to get in a PvP guild right away which means they're less likely to find premades to help them get easy glory, assuming a premade would even allow someone with a low GS onto their team for a match.
In addition to that, new players have to deal with you, the established PvPer with high end gear, enchants, and weapon and armor enchants that come and farm us to pad your kill count until many new players decide to say screw it, get their 600 points out of a match so they get some glory, and then sit at the campfire for the remainder of the match while you guys tell us how much we suck for not being fully geared out and the CWs on the other team try to attack us from the base of our camp in a desperate attempt to get one more kill before the match ends, thus ensuring that our attempts to actually get our gear up to a competitive level are long, tedious, and frustrating.
I've also been told that I should only do Gauntlgrym until I have a full set of T2s. Farming random HAMSTER for an hour and then doing a two minute match once every two hours that only gives out a handful of coins isn't PvPing. If matches lasted longer, thereby allowing people to get better rewards for a match, or if it could be queued for more often, that might be an option. At the same time, if that was the case, the more established PvPers would most likely be there more often as well, making the point moot.
Given all this, established PvPers have three realistic options. The one that seems to be the most common is also the most foolish.
1) You can harass, berate, and farm new players until they get fed up, quit PvPing, and help ensure the slow death of the portion of the game that you seem to enjoy the most.
2) You can go to Icewind Dale. Given the constraints put in place on going there, it's likely going to be some time before a new player is able to enter that portion of the game, meaning that most people you come across are already going to be at least somewhat established and that you won't come across any of the "under geared" PvPers that some of you seem to loathe so much.
3) You can help these new players find ways to actually be useful in a match so they're not such a detriment to your win/loss ratio.
Just some venting from someone that does actually know how to be helpful in a match where most people severely out gear me.
Post edited by arimikami on
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Don't listen to them.
I don't.
Also, you can buy tier 1 pvp gear from AH which isn't that "expensive". Full run of t1 dungeons would bring you enough astral diamonds to purchase those. Oh or at least get yourself set of blues with tenacity...that's not really expensive plus some of the are really good if you got for certain stats only.
WTB Class Reroll please
I already have a full set of T1 PvP gear. I had it waiting for me in my inventory before I even got to 60. According to many people, that's still not good enough.
In fact, I commented on that right at the start of this thread.
A new level 60 in full T1 PvP gear is only going to have about a 9k GS unless they take the time to farm, or spend the cash, to get high level enchants and those aren't going to push the GS too much higher.
Jump in PVP with a full set of Grim Gear, Rank 6s, and some T2 jewelry and you can start to get established.
I personally dislike spawn camping (on both ends). It's boring winning or losing like that.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
I've actually found domination matches to be much faster than Gauntlgrym and, if you didn't need it for the campaign rewards and to get a seal of triumph I wouldn't bother with it at all. As I said, I had my T1s waiting for me before I even hit 60 and, I'm most of the way through getting my T2s after only a few days. I only need my rings, armor, and boots which, I should have by the end of tomorrow. In comparison, I don't even have enough grym coins to get a single piece of gear yet.
Unfortunatelly there are many people like that.
WTB Class Reroll please
The GS separates the players then the premade vs pug separates them even further.
when something is 90% unplayable its broken.
Domination is broken.
WTB Class Reroll please
It's not your fault, it is Cryptic's.
This game is unable to put together people with the same amount of gear and I suspect it doesn't intend to (because you, the new player, will get frustrated and buy r10s and legendaries so you can compete).
The other MMORPG I used to play had very strict tiers; gear was related to it. It was IMPOSSIBLE to gave much better gear until you advanced to next ladder tier, that unlocked the better gear on vendors. There were no enchants and you could win all your gear solely through PvP, in a very reasonable amount of time (a few weeks).
Do not expect that to happen here. This game thrives from imbalance.
As for tactics, I'll tell my novice CW to go and stand on a pillar or the bridge and just be a nuisance. If you can lure them away from a node and the main fight you are helping the cause.
I sometimes even PM my enemy when they are too easy to kill. The amount of times I've PM'd my victim ''You need to move more, jump around, don't just stand and let me hit you''. Most novice CWs and DCs tend to just stand there and spam at-wills. Too easy for my GF to throw you around.
I dom to 60, get enough glory to get full t1, then do at least 2 weeks of booning, buy the ancient off slots, get purple pants and shirt.. and r6s with power/hp my top concern.
This nets you around 11.5k every class can do that much. Total AD cost is around 600k right now to do this. IT used to be cheaper, but prices go up all the time.
You can ignore armor enchant to start with, but you better also save for a lesser weapon. Now thats another 600k now.
So, now the new price of entry level pvp is really around 1.2k million AD, and this is mostly to get you to the point of not being a total scrub, BUT you also have to pay for boons.. so add another 300k or something like that.
It will take a # of matches/gg runs toi get your profound setup.
I usually go for best profound weapon first, as I am not running the DD's anymore to get the Form/Dread weapons, or purchase a set of Ancient gear at the least. If you are lucky you can land a Bi Mh, which is free.. just a pain in the behind to land, these are typically better then Ancient CN set, but little less then the Form/Dread set, but considering you wont have to run the DD like 100 times to get your offhand or something, not bad.
Total time from new entry to middle class is about 60 days total, this will include all boons, gear score of around 14-15k r6/7s, at least a lesser in weapon and armor and about 3 million AD spent give or take.
This usually makes you well off enough to compete at pug level.
Next is to work on the weapon enchant, getting normal's will cost a pretty penny now.
Sadly, there is no end in sight to the GREAT INFLATION enchant wise, between exploiters and cyrptic nerfing Cwards.. the newer players in this game are just at a VAST disadvantage from 2-3 months ago.
IF they can get rid of the exploiters, then maybe they can work on allowing access to some cheaper pricing to actual legit players.
In another game I played, everyone got the second best level weapon or offhand , just by doing a progression quest line (it was no small matter, from start to finish, it was easily like 40 hours worth of game time) but you didnt have to worry about RNG in a Raid to get it) , plus the best weapons were from t2 raids, with like 1% chance to drop and locked on a weekly basis (so you go figure, if you were in a top end Raiding guild, once a week you got a 1% chance at the DROP, then 1 out of 12 to roll on it, after a year of raiding, saw it drop twice , never won it)
The other sad part, is the # of exploiters who are high end now, I dont know the percentage, but you gotta guess its not low, dont want to call everyone a cheater, but how many do you think actually paid 2, 000 out of pocket to get from entry to beast mode in less then a month? I would say not many.
Hopefully we will see some bans coming up.
I mean, nothing personal, but your schedule to be allowed to PvP @ 60 is kind of freaky. Its a GAME!
I should be able and should play as I like. The game, as only and godlike instance that makes the matches, should team me with appropriate opponents.
Please don't misunderstand me, I didnt say it was a fair system , right or anything else.
What I am saying , is AS gear score creeps and creeps and creeps, there just little else you can do , then prepare yourself AS much as possible to enter.
YOU do not need perfects, r10s or anything like that, because frankly the crowd who has that is pretty small, you will get rolled , even after 1000's of matches of practice against them, so it doesnt matter.
What I am saying, is to prepare yourself for CURRENT meta after the game has been out for this long, will take some time at least.
They really need to look at 3 separate queues.
1 entry level to gear up 25% of the players give or take.
2. standard middle class for the rest of us 70% give or take
3. the rest of them 5% who have won the game and want to compete against each other.
Then you can have two separate leader-boards for group b and c, first one shouldn't have one really to protect everyone involved. NOR should you get points for leader-boards domming before 60, I think my HR up to 60 was in the first 50 pages and had the top title, it was a JUNK score though, I was semi twinked with a enchant, of course I blew everyone away except the top elite. As soon as I was really domming, I paid big time and dropped like a swatted fly.
This problem WILL just increase as the game goes forward. You will have middle class range in the 17k+ range in the coming months...
And with each mod this wall gets higher.
They might introduce walls like Level 60 / +mod 1&2 / +IWD / + dragonborn.
Once you have 3 boons in sharandar or DR you will never matched against a fresh L60.
Once you enter IWD you will never ever be matched against someone who was never there.
Might actually work.
This really is the issue. I don't want to come down on the side of the elitists, but you need to step back and take a look at the big picture. For the most part a PvPer's desire is to win. I realize that there are people that are queuing for PvP that simply want to get their 4 matches out of the way as soon as possible to get their daily done. But the majority of us are there to win.
At it's best, an evenly matched Domination session is a chess match that goes down to the wire. Each point is being contested constantly and the winner is the one that can manage to carve out those few seconds of pure blue that will give them the edge and win the game. In a contest like that, having someone on your team that can't hold their own is an incredible liability. Enough so that a single player can push that from a hard fought battle all the way to a rout from the start once the cascade of defeats begin.
No one should berate you for putting together the best possible gear you can and getting into PvP regardless of what that gear is or how experienced you are. PvP should be available to all. But what should not happen is for you to get matched in the big leagues when you're first starting out.
The problem Cryptic has is that they can't please us. We say we want balanced matches to make PvP more fun for all involved, so they institute a matching system that takes things like GS into consideration along with individual scoring in PvP. However, the queue takes 20 minutes to pop. Then we cry to the heavens that queue wait times are too long and people will quit PvP since you can only get 1 or 2 matches an hour. So they relax the requirements to allow a more flexible system that gives imperfect matches, but that allows you to PvP nearly at will.
* Set a GS limit
This isn't 2004, time/money invested shouldn't be a factor driving competitive pvp. Introducing a gearscore limit adds a strategic element to the game, forcing people to optimize within a clear set of gear constraints.
Give everyone the same amount of resources to allocate and maybe this matchmaking system will actually be worth something.
What people really need is a minimum standard of strategical skills. One side's got 4 geared players while the other one's got 5 of them? You're the 9k gs random guy who keeps getting wrecked 2 seconds from when you're leaving the spawn? Then camp your base. Contest it and prevent the other team to keep getting points.
What really sets the difference in random-que PvP is the capability of one team to play better together, in order to employ all the resources it has in the best way.
I've seen multiple times decently geared people doing far worse than 9k guys just because they didn't have a clue about what to do, reaching you out of nowhere while capping a base to get 300 points, leaving bases red just because they were too afraid to face the enemies' perma. Jeez.
If you que for pvp without the proper gears and/or good classes knowledge you've got to expect that you're going to get wrecked quite often, so rather than attempting to get first in your chart with many kills and few deaths because you're always reaching the good players in your party when they don't need help while leaving other points uncontested try using your brains better.
Acknowledge your weaknesses, analyze who you are playing with and who you are facing, tell your party you're going to keep contesting the base next to the spawn in order to reach it quickly, if you expect to die multiple times even 1v1.
Gears are very important in PvP, but first off use your brain. It's free.
And +1 for Trace, GG is way faster than domination because of the T1 coin farm. Just run Fardelver 5 times after GG whenever you can and get your grim set with the coins you're getting, it takes a couple days to get the 4-of if you pvp too.
7 years old PC, connection laggy as sh--, be afraid & get rekt
I agree. I'm a fan of brackets if people find that a comfortable solution. But many people seem to be stuck on thinking brackets will split the community up too much.
What happens when you introduce bracket based matchmaking is that the pvp community will self-select themselves into the optimal gear bracket. Players will adjust their gearscore accordingly until they find the best pvp experience per time queued.
* Introduce gear brackets
* Players initially thinned out between several brackets (lets assume there's a bracket every 1k GS; <10k, 11k, 12k, 13k, etc.)
* Top-end players see incredibly long queues, so they decrease their GS
* Top-end players continue to drop GS until they reach a bracket with comfortable queue times
* Bulk of PVPers now queue in ~13k-bracket
This is akin to Dark Souls where the community has come together to settle on level 125 as the defacto PvP-meta. It also preserves lower/higher bracket-metas because pvpers don't cross-queue. Top-end players can queue together and have their fun fighting amongst other 18kers. Meanwhile, it's actually possible to have a thriving 9k GS Blues-only meta when you don't expect someone in full epics to waltz into the match.
This also makes minor PVP related class balance easy to tweak. If it turns it out that TRs are underperforming in PVP, adjust stats so that they contribute less to gearscore (a Rank 10 Dark now contributes the same GS as a Rank 7 used to). Thereby increasing the stat budget they have to work with.
Not talking about 1 roflstomp and 1 time being roflstomped.
I am talking about the "I say I am a good player so I am one. I say I have a perfect setup so I have it. Ergo, I have to win more than 50% of my matches" kind of player.
Make sure you are looking at the grim set in the trade of blades, not the one from the npc's in the gauntlgrym area. One set has tenacity the other does not.
The set in the trade of blades has tenacity and requires far less grym coins, although it requires some glory and seals of triumph instead. Either way, it is the better grym set for pvp. Alternately, you can get the non-tenacity pieces and trade them for the tenacity grym pieces in the trade of blades if you have more grym coins than glory. Heads up on that.
And yeah, don't be afraid to use your ignore command in pvp. Everybody has to start somewhere.
Jeffrina Jones, GWF
Jeffrodo, CW
Jeffrogue, Rog
Jelfro, GF
Jeffrogolas Do'Urden, HR
Jeffrodo Jaggins, SW
What part of this influence is due to your class and build and what part to your abilities is another question.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Actually, none of the vendors in Trade of Blades takes Grym coins. There's one vendor in there that will trade gear bought with Grym coins for grim gear but, I found it to be faster to get a set of grim gear by running domination.
I wish that there were a blue bracket, and maybe a t1 t2 etc bracket. No idea how to implement it.
A option that would be interesting, but would also spoil a lot of fun for some people would be two queues
One for single players matched pug
Another for team / party players matched only against other team / parties.
It would not be perfect, but if queue times were to slow, then the "premades" could queue seperately and end up with a few high GS players and some low GS players facing similar teams.
This would cause the high end players to have a vested interest in being able to play with and make the most out of newer lower GS players.
It would also kick in the most QQ that has ever been heard as long as a leader board etc exists.
There will always be those who enjoy winning by having superior gear on all 5 players and who somehow (I can't figure it out but lately I'm getting ideas) have top end gear and enchants and stuff.
I did the math , and it would take me longer than this game has existed to farm that gear for myself. Has to be something I am missing, and apparently the secret is closely guarded by those who have such gear. Eventually I will figure that out, and until then I'll eat spawn camping and such and eventyally I will have competitive gear.
Been there, done that got the tee shirt before, eventually you catch up, and it is something to work for instead of just pressing my I win button and boom game over.
Well ramble off
Getting gear is easy(ish), if time consuming. Getting R8s and weapon/armour enchants however are no longer easy and they are extremely expensive.
Buy cheap blues with tenacity/defense/deflection/regen. Slot R5 radiants in defensive slots and R5 darks in offensive slots. Run Gauntlygrym as often as you can. You should get the basic PVP gear in relatively no time. All the while start feeding RP into your enchants to get them up to R6s. Grim and Profound gear take a little longer.
As for weapon and armour enchants, just hope that the gods love you and you get a Coal Ward from your prayer box. I'm lucky, I crafted normal enchants when Coal Wards were still 120 - 140k on the AH.
More on topic though:
What I would love to see is a second gear tab. Like how you have your battle gear and your fashion gear. Add a 3rd button down there and label it "PVP gear." This way we wouldn't have to worry about manually switching our gear out and wasting bag space with it either.
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Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
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