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Sundering: 4th to 5th edition transition storyline
imaginaerum1
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 378 Arc User
So, best I can tell, as the Spellplague was the storyline for the transition from third to fourth edition, so is the Sundering the transition from fourth to fifth (D&D Next). It's basically Greenwood and Salvatore's way to fix the botchup that WotC/Hasbro made of the Forgotten Realms when they went through with the Spellplague story without consulting Greenwood or Salvatore, and against their wishes once they found out what was being done and asked them to reconsider.
The Tyranny of Dragons is the first storyline for fifth edition.
Does this mean that we're going to be seeing the Sundering storyline here? If so, has anyone heard anything about how that will affect things?
Also, given the drastic mechanics changes from fourth edition to fifth edition, are we going to be seeing any structural changes to the game to keep it up-to-date, or is it going to be permanently stuck in an obsolete version of the tabletop version of the game? For example, it seems a bit odd to be introducing a class that is not in fifth edition (Warlock) with a storyline that is the intro storyline for that edition.
The Tyranny of Dragons is the first storyline for fifth edition.
Does this mean that we're going to be seeing the Sundering storyline here? If so, has anyone heard anything about how that will affect things?
Also, given the drastic mechanics changes from fourth edition to fifth edition, are we going to be seeing any structural changes to the game to keep it up-to-date, or is it going to be permanently stuck in an obsolete version of the tabletop version of the game? For example, it seems a bit odd to be introducing a class that is not in fifth edition (Warlock) with a storyline that is the intro storyline for that edition.
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The game's mechanics revolve around a modified version of 4th Edition and while technically 4th edition, it is really it's own sub-edition within 4th edition.
With that in mind -- I will say this though, and this is just my opinion; there is no need to change mechanical rule-sets to keep up to date with the Realms timeline and lore. Sure there would need to be some noticeable changes in things, but nothing that would affect the game's modified rule-set, in regards to combat. Anything that would need to be updated would either be purely cosmetic in nature or be adjusted to work within the game's rule-set.
I highly doubt Cryptic would want to re-code their entire game to be 5th edition rules and I doubt even more that PWE would want to fund such an undertaking.
In my opinion, Neverwinter's modified rule set works perfectly for a PC game and doesn't need adjusted to keep the game up to date with the timeline of the Realms.
Very seriously though, I hope they add Mystra to the god list AND give us a way to change our deity. I also hope that the Tyranny of Dragons is just the start to the task of getting and keeping Neverwinter up-to-date with the current canon timeline.
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DDO started off using modified 3.5 rules. When 4E arrived, they didn't do any drastic changes to the underlying systems until the numbers got too complicated/out of whack for the 3.5 rules to handle. Even then, they didn't adopt 4E rules, only adopting some 4E-isms like Epic Destinies along with a limited version of the 3.5 Epic system. Now that 5E is coming, and DDO is still running, I expect the main changes to be storyline-based and not systems-based.
Bringing it back to NW, I expect storyline changes but not systems changes. As we know, NW doesn't use 4E rules, only 4E names and overall class structure.
Just my opinion having played only 3.5 and 4E, I feel that 4E was a wonderful D&D experience. 3.5 was too much about Superheroes (casters) and Sidekicks (non-casters). 4E felt much more about being part of a party, both in and out of combat.
I really like that 5E is powering down spellcaster effectiveness while maintaining their utility. Very much looking forward to 5E!
The rest still up-and-coming!
This is pretty much exactly where I was going with my question. There are significant changes to the world happening. Either we're still in Spellplague-influenced Neverwinter (the 4th ed storyline), or we're in Sundering-era Neverwinter (the 5th ed storyline). Trying to use parts of both with turn into a muddled mess. With Spellplague officially going away in the tabletop/multimedia (see official WotC posts regarding 5th ed) version of the game, why is it (and the aspects of the game that go along with it) staying here?
Because the amount of effort needed to remove it from Neverwinter would be massive and take at least several months of effort, and that's just content. Rebuilding core game systems to account for 5th Ed would be akin to creating the game from scratch.
It's easy for authors and WOTC to wipe out the spell plague, not so much re-engineering a computer game.
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
Don't hold your breath for Neverwinter to have major mechanic changes due to fifth edition.
Seriously, if you think because fifth edition is rolling out there's any chance of the game being redesigned from the ground up in fifth edition you are setting yourself up for disapointment. Furthermore most reasons players cite a lack of D&D feel such as restrictive weapon and power choices are the result of the Action Combat design and that is one aspect I can all but guarantee is never being changed.
Example: GWF's and GF's are both fighters. This means that technically both should be able to choose Tide of Iron as a power. The thing is Tide of Iron requires a shield and both Cleave a Sure Strike both require melee weapons in order to function. With the action combat styling and the lack of basic attacks quick swapping of weapons is just a mess of issues waiting to happen. If you equipped a bow but did not have a ranged power in this game you would be dead in the water.
This is why they went with the themed approach more so than anything else. The action combat, At-Will Basic Attacks and limited power bars do not support what many consider D&D style weapon and character choices. Now they may adopt some changes from fifth edition they like if it fits into the game just as they have drawn some inspiration from first, second and third edition while designing the game. However while they have not said they will not be overhauling the game to fifth edition it is so incredibly unlikely you really shouldn't even consider the possibility.
Whether or not the timeline/storyline will progress is something that we've received 'wait and see' style responses.
And I'm a 3.5 / Pathfinder guy myself. Is 5th Ed. gonna be anything like 3.5 again? (I banned 4th Ed. after I saw what happened. The books anyway.)
And as to the game, as long as I can get my GF to be effective, and feel like a Paladin, I'll live, with the way things are. (The two strikes bit, in a dungeon run, not so much.
You're my new best friend :cool:
And to the major point, D&D is NOT the rules. It's the game and an experience. Let me toss out a famous wiiticism by Gary.
There's people all around the world playing with all different types of D&D rules, from basic all the way up to now 5th, and everything in between. There's tons of games out there based on different rule sets, inspired by different rule sets, or just using D&D as flat out inspiration. Or their own home brewed amalgamation.
But they're all playing D&D.
And as far as the story line, it would be cool to see them follow along with some of the Sundering stuff, or blaze their own path in the Forgotten Realms. What we need to realize as gamers is that there is no ONE story in D&D. THE story is whatever you want it to be. Right now, we're in Cryptic's world. They're going to tell us the story that they want (with WotC's blessing, of course). In fact, I'm sure there's thousands of DM's out there cleverly writing a transition to the new material, trying to preserve what they want in THEIR world, while adding new stuff to it.
But to say that Neverwinter HAS to change the story and HAS to adapt a new ruleset is about as far away from the true spirit of D&D as you can get.
What is this so called feel of D&D?
IMO there's no way they can rework the classes to anything close to 5th ed.
If they want to, they can easily make future modules include parts of the
mulligan... er, Sundering. It's more about the story than the technical details.
That must have been a post TSR change in his attitude. He was pretty much my way or you're not playing D&D back when he did the Sorcerer's Scroll column for Dragon in the 80s.
But insofar as changes to the content, it's more likely they'll add new lore and just gloss over any conflict with the Spellplague timeline. Besides the Chasm itself and the aforementioned parts of Helm's Hold, the entire Spellburst 'level' would be gone You'd have two leveling quests eradicated and a third would need major rework to provide a rationale for what Rohini was doing and also screw up the Mage class questline. Removing the content would also break countless Foundries, not just ones that feature Spellplagued monstrosities but also the ones that use them reskinned for bosses or whatever. Unless WotC threatened them with pulling the license, it would be far too much work to consider doing.
The Sundering Series. Five Books. Five and more characters. Five points of view. One event.
IMO they were enjoyable reads but didn't give much details on the events. I suppose we'll be seeing more behind the scenes in the campaign settings and actual release of 5E. However what little tidbits we got in The Sundering was more or less saying....okay WotC...you know all that balogna you pulled with the spellplague killing 90% of the gods people actually liked, streamlining the story, killing most powerful mages, etc...you can take all those changes and put it somewhere unsightly because we don't like it, we don't want it...and most home brewed stories gave it the middle finger anyway.
What we get is a half-way, muddled mix of the two, with a few thematic elements tossed in, but no significant changes. A nod in the direction of the new story, without anything of substance.
I'd rather they stay in the 4th edition (Spellplague-era) storyline and blaze their own trail than do a half-way job of things in the transition. I don't think it's going to work well.