aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited July 2014
When the object is to kill all the mobs, how can one do too much damage? And it's not like CWs sit alone at the top all the time. GWFs and even well played and well geared HRs challenge us for the irrelevant paingiver title.
But those equally irrelevant min/maxing LFG groups aren't going to suddenly start looking for TRs and GFs. If CWs can't cut the mustard after the final nerfs, they'll want more GWFs and HRs.
Watch and see.
(I took the higher road and refrained from name calling personal attacks)
Just like the pharisees of old, eh. "Look at me, everyone. I'm praying!" LOL
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Like to see a so so dps party without a CW complete ToS final boss without wiping a couple of times.
DC to heal some damage spikes and a rogue or two to keep up smoke bomb while the whole group surrounds and dps's her. As long as the group can out dps her healing she would go down. No CW required. Makes me want to try it.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited July 2014
If you can get 5 people to surround her, and out DPS her heals, you can beat her. A 5 DC party recently beat her.
Before dancing with joy I might remember you two things.
1. there are dungeons already where CWs are totally not welcome!
Mostly which requires great single target dps.
Best dps party for DK recently is probably 5GWF; 4GWF/DC; 3GWF/TR/DC maybe one CW to put one singu.
If you want to do 6 runs you should left CWs at home...
2. one or maybe two CW for TOS is always viable because even the nerfed singu or FI helps pulling mobs together.
Like to see a so so dps party without a CW complete ToS final boss without wiping a couple of times.
I've done it with just three GWFs (the other two died to blademasters instantly), and two of us had rubbish gear (I was around 10k with only the one artifact, for instance).
Ok, it took a while (and given that we were just whaling on her and letting her kill all the adds for us, we almost certainly did enough total damage to kill her ten or fifteen times over), but it wasn't particularly challenging.
Mind you, GWFs are broken as all hell (blademaster? Why thank you! Moar unstoppable! etc)
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited July 2014
Just like pvp , all adjustments, balances in this game only hurt the lowest gear scores, its the increadle amount of power creep and BiS group that is 150% more potent then a fresh 60, this widely varied range is by far the greatest imbalance in the game.
It has nothing to do with class, a single near BiS CW can clear content by itself.. a 11k CW not so much, vastly different game they play. So again because of a minority population of the BiS destroying balance, people assume that the nerfs are justified.
I think you can look at a bell curve graph to see what this will do, the 17k+ CW will still clear content mostly by itself, the 11k however will be much more reduced in usefulness and will be weaker to the group, the 14-15k crowd, will function in a slightly less potent manner.
Regardless of what they do, this content isnt designed to keep pace with the power creeping they release. They need to give a t3 stage (hey 5% chance of Cwards drops , that will bring people into them) or release a new set of DDs that have a minimum entry of 13k or something.
The content was stale, designed for classes that have vastly outgrown them and also for a more limited amount of classes present at that time.
I tried my cw today at mimic...
incoming nerf is incredible! I couldn't believe my eyes literaly almost all skills nerfed %50 or more.
I feel real sad when I saw that incoming changes. I think they are trying to give up us from our character for new coming warlock. new toon means spending more time and more money.
I love my toon, If I forced to abandon my toon with this kinda ridiculous attempts. sorry guys but I have no more time for a new toon or spending time with a broken toon.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I tried my cw today at mimic...
incoming nerf is incredible! I couldn't believe my eyes literaly almost all skills nerfed %50 or more.
I feel real sad when I saw that incoming changes. I think they are trying to give up us from our character for new coming warlock. new toon means spending more time and more money.
I love my toon, If I forced to abandon my toon with this kinda ridiculous attempts. sorry guys but I have no more time for a new toon or spending time with a broken toon.
Go play a Warlock before you make ridiculous claims like this. A Warlock has no where near the AOE damage potential of a CW, even in their "nerfed" state. And very, very little CC. And without a real dodge, they're incredibly fragile in PvP and PvE.
Go play a Warlock before you make ridiculous claims like this. A Warlock has no where near the AOE damage potential of a CW, even in their "nerfed" state. And very, very little CC. And without a real dodge, they're incredibly fragile in PvP and PvE.
Lol!
A temptation (not even dps) Warlock was critting max 128k with Tyrannical threat while I was doing 47k max crit with Oppforce. Dreadtheft is also not technically an aoe but does a monster group DOT dmg too.
SW isn't dodging but has monster HP+lifesteal.
Lol!
A temptation (not even dps) Warlock was critting max 128k with Tyrannical threat while I was doing 47k max crit with Oppforce. Dreadtheft is also not technically an aoe but also does does a monster group DOT dmg.
It isn't dodging but has monster HP+lifesteal.
I tried my cw today at mimic...
incoming nerf is incredible! I couldn't believe my eyes literaly almost all skills nerfed %50 or more.
I feel real sad when I saw that incoming changes. I think they are trying to give up us from our character for new coming warlock. new toon means spending more time and more money.
I love my toon, If I forced to abandon my toon with this kinda ridiculous attempts. sorry guys but I have no more time for a new toon or spending time with a broken toon.
having best aoe dmg,best cc, thats not broken?
hmmm
Just like pvp , all adjustments, balances in this game only hurt the lowest gear scores, its the increadle amount of power creep and BiS group that is 150% more potent then a fresh 60, this widely varied range is by far the greatest imbalance in the game.
It has nothing to do with class, a single near BiS CW can clear content by itself.. a 11k CW not so much, vastly different game they play. So again because of a minority population of the BiS destroying balance, people assume that the nerfs are justified.
I think you can look at a bell curve graph to see what this will do, the 17k+ CW will still clear content mostly by itself, the 11k however will be much more reduced in usefulness and will be weaker to the group, the 14-15k crowd, will function in a slightly less potent manner.
Regardless of what they do, this content isnt designed to keep pace with the power creeping they release. They need to give a t3 stage (hey 5% chance of Cwards drops , that will bring people into them) or release a new set of DDs that have a minimum entry of 13k or something.
The content was stale, designed for classes that have vastly outgrown them and also for a more limited amount of classes present at that time.
cw with just t2 gear with no enchants which can be farmed in a week
has more dmg then 99% OF people in this game. thats exact 11gs
only thing that can out dps or out cc him is better 14gs plus cw or very few gwf
boons,artifact and even enchants dont matter much with cw
high vizier plus their base dmg is insane
i rather have 11gs cw with best spec then any other class in any group
Its really hard to judge how things will turn out at the moment, theres so many proposed changes flying about. But i know from feedback of a 60 warlock tester. that CWs will still be much desired, however he does not have a CW so hard to say if they do more AOE damage. (since we have 4 spells to use and they only 3) but the lack of CC warlocks have is what they are concerned about most.
Makes sense for them to do more damage though, if you want to just be a glass cannon nuker, go for them. If you want to be able to stop enemies pick CW. otherwise warlocks are not going to be desired at all.
I play a GWF but I hate the CW Nerf too. as GWF will too.. But this is about CW. Its the most TERRIBLE nerf ever. There is nothing about CW's that needs to be nerfed if very little. I hate this as much as a few of the nerfs GWF are gonna get. They either change this or hope as you said theres a difference of build to still dominate. This Mod4 Nerfs are TERRIBLE.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited July 2014
having best aoe dmg,best cc, thats not broken?
No. It's working as was intended. Now they intend something else. Apparently what they intend is to get CWs to stop buying Zen.
if you want to just be a glass cannon nuker, go for them.
Sorry, I don't have the money to build a brand new toon that is likely to be destroyed by developers if I learn to play it too well.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Regardless of whatever they do, the game hasnt changed.
you dont need a tank, because you can avoid most of the damage, or heal yourself.
you dont need a healer, because you avoid most of the damage or use lifesteal.
you dont need a ST damage, because the difference of their DPS is negligible vs the ability to clear the trash up to the boss instead.
So CW remains best option, then followed by GWF, becuase they can AOE up to boss then ST boss with just about enough dps as the TR.
DOES that mean you have to stack ALL cws? heck and no, you dont, 1-2 makes life easy, but you DONT need any of them either in the end. This is what most poeple wouldnt get over, you can do 5 of ANY class and get any of the t2s done. But of course you may spend 5 more mins in them.
# 1 problem is dungeon designs and # 2 was playerbase, then you can blame the classes. This playerbase is one of the most selfish , non communicative ive ever seen, bar none in 20 years of mmo gaming Ive played. (I feel #2 is directly related that this game is basically 100% f2p for pve purposes, I think a payment gate at some point is warranted, in another f2p game I played , it was basically pay 9.99 after the first 20 levels or so to open up the game to play, I think that could help honestly 10 bucks isnt much , but would help clear the game up a little)
If it wasnt for legit, I wouldve moved on probably (im even in a mid sized guild with 90 or so active players and THEY barely even talk, or ever do anything together. )
Legit is the sole reason this game is still viable for alot of us.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
you sir are a genious
will stay exactly the same in pve
can only get better in pvp for cw
smart cws already have a purified set which gives easily around 40k hp.
ranged class with that much hp is prety cool to play
cws enjoy
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited July 2014
PvP is irrelevant, as we use different powers, and I'm sure as hell not going to buy another bag and farm BI in order to carry around an extra set of gear.
So In PvE I'm exactly the same...except that I have pretty much no Eye of the Storm, longer cast times, longer cool downs and less damage (except for Steal Time)? If we're the same, I ask again: why change?
Will these changes make TRs or GFs more wanted? Well, no. They won't.
Will these changes call for fewer CWs in each group? No.
Will these changes allow GWFs and HRs out-damage us? Maybe, but who cares. Many of them can already do that consistently. I don't cry because a different class can do some things better than I can. Not even in PvP.
Will these changes require us to buy respec tokens? That depends on whether or not they give them to us.
Will these changes influence some of us to delete existing CWs or buy character slots in order to make new characters on which to spend Zen. Possibly, though I won't.
Will these changes force us to relearn the class, even if we don't have much play time for experimentation? Probably, but we don't know yet.
So help a "genious" out and tell me why they're making these changes, if nothing is going to change.
It's definitely a "money decision". Forcing people to leave their classes/characters to make and level new ones = More chances those folks will actually spend money on the game to re-gear. Think about how hard they're making it for newer folks/characters to get geared up. The enchantment system that now actually costs MORE to get a high ranking enchantment than it did before. Coal Wards that are BoA only. Etc, etc, etc....
"If you're going to ride my HAMSTER... At least pull my hair" Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time. "Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
PvP is irrelevant, as we use different powers, and I'm sure as hell not going to buy another bag and farm BI in order to carry around an extra set of gear.
So In PvE I'm exactly the same...except that I have pretty much no Eye of the Storm, longer cast times, longer cool downs and less damage (except for Steal Time)? If we're the same, I ask again: why change?
Will these changes make TRs or GFs more wanted? Well, no. They won't.
Will these changes call for fewer CWs in each group? No.
Will these changes allow GWFs and HRs out-damage us? Maybe, but who cares. Many of them can already do that consistently. I don't cry because a different class can do some things better than I can. Not even in PvP.
Will these changes require us to buy respec tokens? That depends on whether or not they give them to us.
Will these changes influence some of us to delete existing CWs or buy character slots in order to make new characters on which to spend Zen. Possibly, though I won't.
Will these changes force us to relearn the class, even if we don't have much play time for experimentation? Probably, but we don't know yet.
So help a "genious" out and tell me why they're making these changes, if nothing is going to change.
For some things I agree, but atm at PvE no one, A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y no one from other class can out-dps good CW. Not even close. And not only top shelf CWs, but even average ones! If HR or GWF out-dps CW, it means that the person can not play with its character or his/hers build sucks!
I asked my self many times same question like you -Why to change something that working? Not only here but in other games. Why the couple good things, that for some whiners are OP must be changed? And i reach this: At any game, there is a point where characters reach their top, nothing more for improvement and this characters are called OP. Its easy for Devs to change, nerf and est. characters, so game to be more challenging, but not the content. Most of the times this is happening, when some new content is released. And most of the time, biggest part of the new content is copy-paste from some old one, just with changes of its cover ( for example mass mobs, whole parts of some crypts and est). By doing this, when you play with your "changed" character, you have the feeling for something brand new and unique. Not at last place, if there is an idea for new, better equipment, combining with the new/old content the NERF is absolutely required. Otherwise there will be whining much more than this for CW or GWF.
By the way I played lot with "changed" CW. Ya its not like now, to nuke entire map, but still playable. The best thing for me - stupid singularity, that is used most of the times without any idea will be "nerfed" ... will open dozens of beers for that.
Comments
But those equally irrelevant min/maxing LFG groups aren't going to suddenly start looking for TRs and GFs. If CWs can't cut the mustard after the final nerfs, they'll want more GWFs and HRs.
Watch and see.
(I took the higher road and refrained from name calling personal attacks)
DC to heal some damage spikes and a rogue or two to keep up smoke bomb while the whole group surrounds and dps's her. As long as the group can out dps her healing she would go down. No CW required. Makes me want to try it.
1. there are dungeons already where CWs are totally not welcome!
Mostly which requires great single target dps.
Best dps party for DK recently is probably 5GWF; 4GWF/DC; 3GWF/TR/DC maybe one CW to put one singu.
If you want to do 6 runs you should left CWs at home...
2. one or maybe two CW for TOS is always viable because even the nerfed singu or FI helps pulling mobs together.
I've done it with just three GWFs (the other two died to blademasters instantly), and two of us had rubbish gear (I was around 10k with only the one artifact, for instance).
Ok, it took a while (and given that we were just whaling on her and letting her kill all the adds for us, we almost certainly did enough total damage to kill her ten or fifteen times over), but it wasn't particularly challenging.
Mind you, GWFs are broken as all hell (blademaster? Why thank you! Moar unstoppable! etc)
It has nothing to do with class, a single near BiS CW can clear content by itself.. a 11k CW not so much, vastly different game they play. So again because of a minority population of the BiS destroying balance, people assume that the nerfs are justified.
I think you can look at a bell curve graph to see what this will do, the 17k+ CW will still clear content mostly by itself, the 11k however will be much more reduced in usefulness and will be weaker to the group, the 14-15k crowd, will function in a slightly less potent manner.
Regardless of what they do, this content isnt designed to keep pace with the power creeping they release. They need to give a t3 stage (hey 5% chance of Cwards drops , that will bring people into them) or release a new set of DDs that have a minimum entry of 13k or something.
The content was stale, designed for classes that have vastly outgrown them and also for a more limited amount of classes present at that time.
incoming nerf is incredible! I couldn't believe my eyes literaly almost all skills nerfed %50 or more.
I feel real sad when I saw that incoming changes. I think they are trying to give up us from our character for new coming warlock. new toon means spending more time and more money.
I love my toon, If I forced to abandon my toon with this kinda ridiculous attempts. sorry guys but I have no more time for a new toon or spending time with a broken toon.
Go play a Warlock before you make ridiculous claims like this. A Warlock has no where near the AOE damage potential of a CW, even in their "nerfed" state. And very, very little CC. And without a real dodge, they're incredibly fragile in PvP and PvE.
Lol!
A temptation (not even dps) Warlock was critting max 128k with Tyrannical threat while I was doing 47k max crit with Oppforce. Dreadtheft is also not technically an aoe but does a monster group DOT dmg too.
SW isn't dodging but has monster HP+lifesteal.
Who has the ridicoulus claims here...?
Tyrannical Threat was bugged as hell since it could literally do an infinite loop of damage with a Lightning Enchant. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8404781&viewfull=1#post8404781
having best aoe dmg,best cc, thats not broken?
hmmm
cw with just t2 gear with no enchants which can be farmed in a week
has more dmg then 99% OF people in this game. thats exact 11gs
only thing that can out dps or out cc him is better 14gs plus cw or very few gwf
boons,artifact and even enchants dont matter much with cw
high vizier plus their base dmg is insane
i rather have 11gs cw with best spec then any other class in any group
Makes sense for them to do more damage though, if you want to just be a glass cannon nuker, go for them. If you want to be able to stop enemies pick CW. otherwise warlocks are not going to be desired at all.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
No. It's working as was intended. Now they intend something else. Apparently what they intend is to get CWs to stop buying Zen.
Sorry, I don't have the money to build a brand new toon that is likely to be destroyed by developers if I learn to play it too well.
People who know how to play CW's well aren't too worried about these changes. CW's are still going to be really powerful, just in different ways.
Regardless of whatever they do, the game hasnt changed.
you dont need a tank, because you can avoid most of the damage, or heal yourself.
you dont need a healer, because you avoid most of the damage or use lifesteal.
you dont need a ST damage, because the difference of their DPS is negligible vs the ability to clear the trash up to the boss instead.
So CW remains best option, then followed by GWF, becuase they can AOE up to boss then ST boss with just about enough dps as the TR.
DOES that mean you have to stack ALL cws? heck and no, you dont, 1-2 makes life easy, but you DONT need any of them either in the end. This is what most poeple wouldnt get over, you can do 5 of ANY class and get any of the t2s done. But of course you may spend 5 more mins in them.
# 1 problem is dungeon designs and # 2 was playerbase, then you can blame the classes. This playerbase is one of the most selfish , non communicative ive ever seen, bar none in 20 years of mmo gaming Ive played. (I feel #2 is directly related that this game is basically 100% f2p for pve purposes, I think a payment gate at some point is warranted, in another f2p game I played , it was basically pay 9.99 after the first 20 levels or so to open up the game to play, I think that could help honestly 10 bucks isnt much , but would help clear the game up a little)
If it wasnt for legit, I wouldve moved on probably (im even in a mid sized guild with 90 or so active players and THEY barely even talk, or ever do anything together. )
Legit is the sole reason this game is still viable for alot of us.
you sir are a genious
will stay exactly the same in pve
can only get better in pvp for cw
smart cws already have a purified set which gives easily around 40k hp.
ranged class with that much hp is prety cool to play
cws enjoy
So In PvE I'm exactly the same...except that I have pretty much no Eye of the Storm, longer cast times, longer cool downs and less damage (except for Steal Time)? If we're the same, I ask again: why change?
Will these changes make TRs or GFs more wanted? Well, no. They won't.
Will these changes call for fewer CWs in each group? No.
Will these changes allow GWFs and HRs out-damage us? Maybe, but who cares. Many of them can already do that consistently. I don't cry because a different class can do some things better than I can. Not even in PvP.
Will these changes require us to buy respec tokens? That depends on whether or not they give them to us.
Will these changes influence some of us to delete existing CWs or buy character slots in order to make new characters on which to spend Zen. Possibly, though I won't.
Will these changes force us to relearn the class, even if we don't have much play time for experimentation? Probably, but we don't know yet.
So help a "genious" out and tell me why they're making these changes, if nothing is going to change.
I know CW are a a bit OP for pve, specialy when played right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmvQeL9DAzc
Enjoy
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"If you're going to ride my HAMSTER... At least pull my hair"
Taking the trash out, one badguy at a time.
"Satisfaction guaranteed or twice your trash back."
Well for me it isnt mean that the CW is OP, its mean Dungeons system, and last boss system is very very poor.
btw. enjoy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4E3qKl9f8M
For some things I agree, but atm at PvE no one, A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y no one from other class can out-dps good CW. Not even close. And not only top shelf CWs, but even average ones! If HR or GWF out-dps CW, it means that the person can not play with its character or his/hers build sucks!
I asked my self many times same question like you -Why to change something that working? Not only here but in other games. Why the couple good things, that for some whiners are OP must be changed? And i reach this: At any game, there is a point where characters reach their top, nothing more for improvement and this characters are called OP. Its easy for Devs to change, nerf and est. characters, so game to be more challenging, but not the content. Most of the times this is happening, when some new content is released. And most of the time, biggest part of the new content is copy-paste from some old one, just with changes of its cover ( for example mass mobs, whole parts of some crypts and est). By doing this, when you play with your "changed" character, you have the feeling for something brand new and unique. Not at last place, if there is an idea for new, better equipment, combining with the new/old content the NERF is absolutely required. Otherwise there will be whining much more than this for CW or GWF.
By the way I played lot with "changed" CW. Ya its not like now, to nuke entire map, but still playable. The best thing for me - stupid singularity, that is used most of the times without any idea will be "nerfed" ... will open dozens of beers for that.