I dont get why u guys are stuck with nerfing things(leaership in this case), why dont insted suggest to add more task to leadership that result in some enchants or some special rp item, or completely new profesion for some rp. And this statements i can get xy amount of xy stuff than everyone can is absurd, plus the problem isnt amount of ad that we can get problem is like it was said many many many times before that we dont get to spent enough of that ad on usefull stuff.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2014
IIRC, all the leadership "chests of goods" have been updated to potentially drop white pearls or peridots. I don't think higher level refinement items can drop, though. As for enchantments - I think you can only ever get up to R3 enchants/runes via the leadership chests.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
IIRC, all the leadership "chests of goods" have been updated to potentially drop white pearls or peridots. I don't think higher level refinement items can drop, though. As for enchantments - I think you can only ever get up to R3 enchants/runes via the leadership chests.
Rank 2/3s and pearls from large chests which is completely junk and not worth refining
Very large chests give rank 3s, 4s or 2 pearls or a peridot. Also pretty crappy, but the rank 4s and peridots have some use, too bad theyre more on the rare side from the already rare chests. Still the AD is the thing that counts.
I gotta say I agree with all the suggestions sexwax has listed in this thread, as someone who has 20 leadership on 2 toons with 9 slots, I understand how it's quite overpowered atm for farming and leaves a lot of possibilites to abuse.
Do you have any idea how much real money people with 10+ characters farming leadership have paid? Extra character slots aren't free beyond the first one.
Also, people who are pissed off at how expensive things are and aren't willing to wait? Yeah, they spend a lot of real money too just to sell it on the AD/Zen exchange so they don't have to farm.
I guarantee the people in charge make more money with leadership the way it is than they would if they would "fix" it. I like things the way they are in regards to what this thread discusses.
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First of all, I have finshed two level 20 leadership and that is not jelous. Secondly if the AD supply reduces, it will certainly affect the ADZEN exchange. Although I don't know how much. The point is that some people may farm AD through the leadership and they never play game itself. People like me who has rank 20 leadership may still benifit from a stronger AD currency.
Sounds like a great idea for folks that invested a ton of AD in blue and purple leadership assets. Are you volunteering to reimburse everyone for their wasted AD on heroes and Adventurers?
See, both you and I use and like Leadership, however, thing that I'm trying to discuss here is is it really useful, and can it be replaced with something other than AD. I imagine people will be able to earn millions of AD in just a few days when Scourage Warlock comes out just by crafting shirts and pants. I would gladly jump on that train as well, but too much needs to be invested, both time and ingame money, and I have neither of those.
Yeah, "make AD by crafting shirts!" isn't a solution for the average player. Waaaaaay too much AD cost in getting the tools & dragon eggs - making AD with crafting is the province of the rich. (Additionally, the more people that hop on the "craft shirts" train, the more competition there is for sales, and the less money there is to be made there.)
Personally, I avoid the AH. Except during the last Lillend event, I've never bought anything more than 8-10k AD, and I've not really sold anything since back in Mod 0/1 (when I sold 7-day celestial coin boxes every week for 25k) My AD, when I'm playing, comes from Leadership & invoking, on my 8 alts, on my single account. And salvaging the periodic extra purple drop from Dread Ring lairs.
What the game needs, as several others have mentioned is some AD sinks that people actually want to spend their AD on. STO is great with that, but then it's economy isn't screwed by having Dilithium used in the auction house. That was the real mistake they made in NW.
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
edited July 2014
I'm going to weigh in on this, there is NOTHING wrong with leadership. You can only perform 3 of the same task at a time, and most of the time frames are rather lengthy unless you have some high end assets which not everyone does (although i'm sure a lot do). Leadership is only really problematic if you take into consideration bots and people that have 15+ characters or accounts. I have 5 and only one near level 20 leadership and it will be quite sometime before the rest have it. It is more ideal to level up your weapon crafting skill for your class first then maybe another skill like leadership.
It takes a lot of time and effort to level leadership, a lot of dedication and the reward is that you can get a few thousand AD/day from it if you are diligent (more if you have lots of characters). People that spend time leveling multiple characters and working them all up and working up their skills should be rewarded for their effort.
Need I also remind you all that refining AD is capped at 24k/day and anyone can reach that cap with or without leadership. Its all you people that transfer wealth to others cause you can't seem to figure out that you can buy some things from places other than the AH which transfers refined AD directly into their wallets. If you want to impact the AD market STOP buying stuff from the auction house, go run dungeons and earn your own gear and for the love of god buy you marks of potency and the like from the vendor instead of the AH. Like all those greater marks of potency that sell for 105 - 110k in the AH and straight up 100k from the vendor.
If you are a diligent player you can easily earn more rough AD than you can refine, and odds are you can find things to spend them on faster than you can refine them.
The simple solution to this is to disallow transferring of AD between different characters via the ZAX. This method of doing so seems to be of dubious legitimacy anyway. If you want to transfer AD between characters, then you have to buy/sell stuff on the AH, and 10% goes away as an AD sink.
the ad inflation is not comming from leadership, its from the 3rd party seller sites, where ppl can buy cheap ad. Also prices at zen store is way to high for ppl to want to buy zen, i do know that many buy zen, but most buy cheap ad....
The simple solution to this is to disallow transferring of AD between different characters via the ZAX. This method of doing so seems to be of dubious legitimacy anyway. If you want to transfer AD between characters, then you have to buy/sell stuff on the AH, and 10% goes away as an AD sink.
...but you can only transfer on the ZAX between your own characters on your own account. 50k on one character vs 10k each on 5 alts is still 50k on my account. How does being able to consolidate the 50k on one character (like if I wanted to do an armor transmute) do any harm to the economy? It's not trading between players or gold sellers.... And think about it - the only time you'd do this is if you needed to spend the AD (either on an expensive game service, or buying something big on the AH)
(Personally, I wish I could just deposit it all in my account shared bank....)
1) If you salvage, you may reach the convertible limit with one char, but it adds AD to the economy - these AD are newly generated, like freshly printed dollar notes -> Inflation, but barely noticable.
2) If you sell loot in the AH, you can make hundreds of thousands of AD in the same time, but those AD are old, they are take from the pocket of other chars and not added to the economy. -> no Inflation.
But, since there are always chars dropping out of the game, their AD (free or bound in equip) are lost to the economy and gone for good, so in fact option 1) may cause a more stable economy then option 2), which would result in a deflation.
But it's a GAME, so the economy is only a secondary concern; after all, Cryptic could make things rarer or more abundant with a wave of their hand; but how the economy FEELS to the customer, and few players cherish to scrap ADs together for months to get something just to be able to keep playing / not beeing kicked from parties / competete in PvP.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
it is funny how people act like you can bing click your way to millions in leadership for little to no effort. The one post on how to generate ad and gives the leadership example, I have to say the left out the part about how it will take you months to get to level 20 leadership and if you are not spending a bunch of ad on getting green blue and purple folks to do the tasks, hitting 2 in 24 hours is very unrealistic, as you can only do the lvl 20 leadership task every 12 hours (with base resources and someone covered how many hours needed to make the adventurer in the first place.
It takes a fair amount of time to do your leadership on multiple toons. I have 11 toons - 8 of which have have 9 slots and i have lvl 20 leadership... but to get some of those slots, i needed 2 purple people assets and 4 (can be done with less but you burn a lot of resources) purple tools... this is millions of ad invested.
But it takes me on average 15 - 20 minutes to do my leadership on all my toons, assuming I am not crafting shirts/pants (gain this is a multi million ad investment to get started in and the market fluctuates dramatically - dragon eggs are not a cheap commodity and you need 2 -3 to get one success) or any thing else, so typically the half hour a day I have to play i spend doing leadership, invoking and checking the ah. so according to that guide, I must be rich... i have 2 alts with over a million ad and one of them sold the 360 day purple companion to hit that level - most my toons have around 3-500k ad, but because i am gearing 11 60th lvl toons, i spend a lot. I rarely make more than 12k ad a day on a toon, and often i do not even bother with doing the leadership any more because it is tedious.
if i took the same 45 minutes (doing my professions 2x ), I could get a few friends from the game and run a few DD (and with the keys available i do not even need t o hit the right time) and easily make more rad.
there are many tasks to do as well. I do professions more for the chests and barrels than the ad. it is a steady increase, but unless you actively consolidate between all your toons (and then you have to choose one over the other... i hear people say main and alt but i enjoy my toons rather equally and tend to go on streaks of which toon i play) this is a little trickle that one flashy item can drain weeks of professions...
and folks say 'you should play the game'... excuse me, this is part of the game, and i am playing. I think the real solution is to a add tasks to leadership. I often choose the tasks that give me refugee or the siege item so i can get the purple chest. add task that do what the op suggest, but leave the current task and let the player choose. Or add a task that allows you to build bits of wards, so I could build a bit (and you need 20 ) and it is either a preserve or coal ward bit and over a time, i can form the bits (with another task) to make an item i would really need. you could expand this to include all sorts of runes too, but you get the picture.
bottom line is do not fix what is not broken. I do not see leadership impacting the economy. Show us the stats that lead to this conclusion or is this all speculation and assumption?
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isammaxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 121Bounty Hunter
edited July 2014
MUCH more rough ad comes from farming dungeons. 1 decent group gets in total about 300k rough ad farming pk in dd period. Now multiply that by the numbers of such groups. Leadership is not even close to that
MUCH more rough ad comes from farming dungeons. 1 decent group gets in total about 300k rough ad farming pk in dd period. Now multiply that by the numbers of such groups. Leadership is not even close to that
Yes but this is the point , they are actually playing the game ,people who farm dungeons are not just a bunch of invoking and leadership characters who do nothing in the game itself except flood a constant supply of AD into the game without having to do anything more than a few clicks for a few minutes 2 to 4 times a day .
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
rank 5 runestone;
rank 5 enchants;
blue mark of any kind;
a refining stone with points between 1000-2000.
How about adding some AD sinks that work, instead of nerfing something that some of us have worked on for one year?
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
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shavaruinMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 32Arc User
edited July 2014
the problem is not that DD gives more, it's that leadership takes far less effort to do, and the result is on par, with multiple toons. I personally have 2 alts, and a main. None have lv20 leadership. The problems is a guy in my guild has 3 accounts, 5 toons on each, and brings in more than 350K AD daily by professions alone (with the 10% cut from AH to transfer the AD
the problem is not that DD gives more, it's that leadership takes far less effort to do, and the result is on par, with multiple toons. I personally have 2 alts, and a main. None have lv20 leadership. The problems is a guy in my guild has 3 accounts, 5 toons on each, and brings in more than 350K AD daily by professions alone (with the 10% cut from AH to transfer the AD
Everybody who says that leadership takes no effort has no idea about that. On your example, first of all, you have to maintain 15 characters, bring them to lvl 60, unlock bonus slots on them and then wait huge amount of time to get some profit. Do you have any idea how hard it is? Just farming dungeons with one character is A LOT easier. And second, with maxed leadership you can get about 15k ad per day, so 3 * 5 * 15 = 225 * 0.9 = 200k. Not 350
the problem is not that DD gives more, it's that leadership takes far less effort to do, and the result is on par, with multiple toons. I personally have 2 alts, and a main. None have lv20 leadership. The problems is a guy in my guild has 3 accounts, 5 toons on each, and brings in more than 350K AD daily by professions alone (with the 10% cut from AH to transfer the AD
And he spent the time and money to get mercs/advents/heroes and 20 leadership. Getting to 20 leadership is fairly brutal even with 6 slots open. Dont trivialize it. None of these tradeskills take any real effort.. they are barely tradeskills. Real tradeskills are in games like Archeage, black desert, etc. But still they are time consuming. Good for people who put in that effort, takes awhile and most of them have been doing it from day 1.
People just don't want their free AD taken away, regardless of how much it breaks the economy. That's the bottom line, really.
No, its not the bottom line, really. And its not free AD. Significant effort and investment goes into getting leadership to lvl 20 in the first place, or did you not read the posts above yours?
No, its not the bottom line, really. And its not free AD. Significant effort and investment goes into getting leadership to lvl 20 in the first place, or did you not read the posts above yours?
You won't convince them. Leadership is now their boogeyman and scapegoat for all the ills of the game. This thread and discussions about leadership are as pointless as discussing politics as people have their minds set before the conversation starts.
Comments
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Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
You can get rank 4 enchants and marks of potency from the Very Large Chest of Goods.
Rank 2/3s and pearls from large chests which is completely junk and not worth refining
Very large chests give rank 3s, 4s or 2 pearls or a peridot. Also pretty crappy, but the rank 4s and peridots have some use, too bad theyre more on the rare side from the already rare chests. Still the AD is the thing that counts.
Just increase the drop rates for rank 5 enchants in dungeons and skirmishes
Also, people who are pissed off at how expensive things are and aren't willing to wait? Yeah, they spend a lot of real money too just to sell it on the AD/Zen exchange so they don't have to farm.
I guarantee the people in charge make more money with leadership the way it is than they would if they would "fix" it. I like things the way they are in regards to what this thread discusses.
...
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...
Sounds like a great idea for folks that invested a ton of AD in blue and purple leadership assets. Are you volunteering to reimburse everyone for their wasted AD on heroes and Adventurers?
Yeah, "make AD by crafting shirts!" isn't a solution for the average player. Waaaaaay too much AD cost in getting the tools & dragon eggs - making AD with crafting is the province of the rich. (Additionally, the more people that hop on the "craft shirts" train, the more competition there is for sales, and the less money there is to be made there.)
Personally, I avoid the AH. Except during the last Lillend event, I've never bought anything more than 8-10k AD, and I've not really sold anything since back in Mod 0/1 (when I sold 7-day celestial coin boxes every week for 25k) My AD, when I'm playing, comes from Leadership & invoking, on my 8 alts, on my single account. And salvaging the periodic extra purple drop from Dread Ring lairs.
What the game needs, as several others have mentioned is some AD sinks that people actually want to spend their AD on. STO is great with that, but then it's economy isn't screwed by having Dilithium used in the auction house. That was the real mistake they made in NW.
It takes a lot of time and effort to level leadership, a lot of dedication and the reward is that you can get a few thousand AD/day from it if you are diligent (more if you have lots of characters). People that spend time leveling multiple characters and working them all up and working up their skills should be rewarded for their effort.
Need I also remind you all that refining AD is capped at 24k/day and anyone can reach that cap with or without leadership. Its all you people that transfer wealth to others cause you can't seem to figure out that you can buy some things from places other than the AH which transfers refined AD directly into their wallets. If you want to impact the AD market STOP buying stuff from the auction house, go run dungeons and earn your own gear and for the love of god buy you marks of potency and the like from the vendor instead of the AH. Like all those greater marks of potency that sell for 105 - 110k in the AH and straight up 100k from the vendor.
If you are a diligent player you can easily earn more rough AD than you can refine, and odds are you can find things to spend them on faster than you can refine them.
...but you can only transfer on the ZAX between your own characters on your own account. 50k on one character vs 10k each on 5 alts is still 50k on my account. How does being able to consolidate the 50k on one character (like if I wanted to do an armor transmute) do any harm to the economy? It's not trading between players or gold sellers.... And think about it - the only time you'd do this is if you needed to spend the AD (either on an expensive game service, or buying something big on the AH)
(Personally, I wish I could just deposit it all in my account shared bank....)
Good analysis and thoughts . . . This is a game!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
It takes a fair amount of time to do your leadership on multiple toons. I have 11 toons - 8 of which have have 9 slots and i have lvl 20 leadership... but to get some of those slots, i needed 2 purple people assets and 4 (can be done with less but you burn a lot of resources) purple tools... this is millions of ad invested.
But it takes me on average 15 - 20 minutes to do my leadership on all my toons, assuming I am not crafting shirts/pants (gain this is a multi million ad investment to get started in and the market fluctuates dramatically - dragon eggs are not a cheap commodity and you need 2 -3 to get one success) or any thing else, so typically the half hour a day I have to play i spend doing leadership, invoking and checking the ah. so according to that guide, I must be rich... i have 2 alts with over a million ad and one of them sold the 360 day purple companion to hit that level - most my toons have around 3-500k ad, but because i am gearing 11 60th lvl toons, i spend a lot. I rarely make more than 12k ad a day on a toon, and often i do not even bother with doing the leadership any more because it is tedious.
if i took the same 45 minutes (doing my professions 2x ), I could get a few friends from the game and run a few DD (and with the keys available i do not even need t o hit the right time) and easily make more rad.
there are many tasks to do as well. I do professions more for the chests and barrels than the ad. it is a steady increase, but unless you actively consolidate between all your toons (and then you have to choose one over the other... i hear people say main and alt but i enjoy my toons rather equally and tend to go on streaks of which toon i play) this is a little trickle that one flashy item can drain weeks of professions...
and folks say 'you should play the game'... excuse me, this is part of the game, and i am playing. I think the real solution is to a add tasks to leadership. I often choose the tasks that give me refugee or the siege item so i can get the purple chest. add task that do what the op suggest, but leave the current task and let the player choose. Or add a task that allows you to build bits of wards, so I could build a bit (and you need 20 ) and it is either a preserve or coal ward bit and over a time, i can form the bits (with another task) to make an item i would really need. you could expand this to include all sorts of runes too, but you get the picture.
bottom line is do not fix what is not broken. I do not see leadership impacting the economy. Show us the stats that lead to this conclusion or is this all speculation and assumption?
Yes but this is the point , they are actually playing the game ,people who farm dungeons are not just a bunch of invoking and leadership characters who do nothing in the game itself except flood a constant supply of AD into the game without having to do anything more than a few clicks for a few minutes 2 to 4 times a day .
How about adding some AD sinks that work, instead of nerfing something that some of us have worked on for one year?
Everybody who says that leadership takes no effort has no idea about that. On your example, first of all, you have to maintain 15 characters, bring them to lvl 60, unlock bonus slots on them and then wait huge amount of time to get some profit. Do you have any idea how hard it is? Just farming dungeons with one character is A LOT easier. And second, with maxed leadership you can get about 15k ad per day, so 3 * 5 * 15 = 225 * 0.9 = 200k. Not 350
And he spent the time and money to get mercs/advents/heroes and 20 leadership. Getting to 20 leadership is fairly brutal even with 6 slots open. Dont trivialize it. None of these tradeskills take any real effort.. they are barely tradeskills. Real tradeskills are in games like Archeage, black desert, etc. But still they are time consuming. Good for people who put in that effort, takes awhile and most of them have been doing it from day 1.
No, its not the bottom line, really. And its not free AD. Significant effort and investment goes into getting leadership to lvl 20 in the first place, or did you not read the posts above yours?
You won't convince them. Leadership is now their boogeyman and scapegoat for all the ills of the game. This thread and discussions about leadership are as pointless as discussing politics as people have their minds set before the conversation starts.