they have lowered leadership rewards before so there is no reason to believe that they would be unwilling to do it again
I believe that was because the best time/AD payout task was "protect caravan" which is a very low level task, yet it provided significantly better reward than the L20 tasks.
Leadership is a decent way for casual players to get some extra AD (and you don't really need to be lv20 to get a good amount of AD, not millions but enough to buy a few things you might need).
Yes, but if AD value is constantly inflating, I see no use of it. Also, other professions can generate decent income as well.
The actual problem with inflation here is that currently there is nothing really worth buying for AD that isn't on AH (thus, not removing AD from the game).
That is true. That recent chicken egg thing seemed to help the economy a bit.
All they need to do is increase the amount of AD reward for said leadership task but make it so only one of your chars can complete it, thus casual players can still get the AD, and it prevents people from abusing it by having 10+ alts devoted only to leadership farming. Or even just make it so that the reward decreases with every other char you have on the same leadership task.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
We're talking about AD inflation here, and how to counter it, and not about your dedication to making your own wealth. You could have done the same with r5 stacks, especially now that the exploit has been fixed.
The inflation is simply because there is nothing worth spending AD on. Just about everything that cryptic tries to sell players is for zen only(bar the very occasional bazzar item). There is no consistent outflow of AD from peoples coffers. If there was more to buy with AD that didn't recycle AD like the AH then this problem wouldn't be so huge.
Ideas mentioned before:
Transmute wardrobes -Players currently permanently change gear, instead add it to a wardrobe tied to the item slot, this way people will be more inclined to transmute multiple times because each transmute does not override and "waste" the previous transmute.
AD only purchasable dyes
Reduction in mount training cost
Player housing
Guild Strongholds/bases that work off player AD donations
More AD only fashion items, similar to the tumurian merchant already available.
Companion appearance customisation
Appearance customisation unlocks -say more hairstyles for a race for X amount of AD
Enchantment on/off toggle unlock - Want to see your carefully transmuted and dyed gear without it covered by soulforged? Unlock with AD (and force visual on for PvP/PvP open world)
Unlock the option to transmute other class items onto your gear
Unlock the option to transmute fashion gear onto your armor and vice-versa.
Well, first i will speak objectively.
inflation is the growth of the quantity of one money and higher prices are one of its consequence.
In neverwinter, effectively, i see two reasons about the fact prices are getting higher :
-the first one, as you already stated is the fact that there is no such things that we can buy with AD, and which don't recycle AD.
-the second one, as everybody seem to have forgotten it, is the fact most of the items wanted are getting rarier and rarier. We went from a BoE system to a BoP one, now Coalescent wards influx is limited, new refining system can explain maybe the loss in enchants number and most of the drop rates of everything went lower...
Second,
well, as a casual player, deleting this profession will make me quit the game. It's almost the only way i have to earn a normal amount of AD, as the best other thing is rhix pvp dailies for 8000rad in 2hours...
Finally to be honest, i think that we could not have an objective point of view without overall data on the game, so i would say, as anybody else, do leadership! it's a great reward after 3 months of grinding i think.
Hmm how can we punish ad sellers, oh I know! Punish every human player too! I do have to agree that the more toons you have, the more insane your AD generation is though. However it does also take a lot of work, and honestly, without it I'm not sure I'd bother logging in anymore. There's no new dungeons worth doing so anything not campaign related is barely being played (many hundreds of cn runs gets tiring after a while) so I'm just crafting for some generation. It's the only profession worth doing, unless you have invested a lot into tool sfor making shirt/pants. However egg prices are high atm so the prices of shirts/pants need to go up to make it compelling to actually make them. For example it's been a while making gf shirts/pants since those are barely worth doing. The pants probably makes you a net loss last I checked. But GFs aren't a popular choice.
I kind of agree with OP on this one.
However I wouldn't do away with leadership completely.
Make it a requirement that you finish two daily missions to be able to do leadership tasks on any account.
That would keep people with leadership scripts from running 50 accounts and (however legal it is) flooding the market with AD.
Once again this is not a browser based flash game.
The fact that you can leadership across however many accounts is not intentional however legal it is at this time.
If people can play "Leadership" 24/7 and have an easier time getting gear/enchants/AD than someone who actually plays the game then it is broken and needs to be fixed.
Making leadership tasks have a requirement of fulfillling at least one or two dailies makes it nearly impossible for someone to run leadership scripts across 10-20 accts unless they actually play the game.
All they need to do is increase the amount of AD reward for said leadership task but make it so only one of your chars can complete it, thus casual players can still get the AD, and it prevents people from abusing it by having 10+ alts devoted only to leadership farming. Or even just make it so that the reward decreases with every other char you have on the same leadership task.
Which encourages multi-accounters and therefore people earn more, and cryptic lose slots selling character slots.
Ok how about this one make it so that the leadership doesn't give you AD but instead gives you a key (bound) to a dungeon with lvl 60 monsters and at the end of completion the chest will contain a varying amount of AD say 5,000-10,000 maybe more idk, and a 1% c-ward chance, and possibly other goodies. So only 1 per char per day and you have to able to kill lvl 60's, obviously you get kits and other chests on the way through. Maybe no more then one per day per char daily style. People still have incentive to buy char slots and you actually have to log into the game to claim rewards.
Some of you guys really don't play alts, do you? It's already enough of a time sink to go through the various campaign dailies on multiple characters, but with no Leadership or Leadership gated behind Even More Dailies...... you're trying to make the game "you can only play one character", it seems.
i play multiple chars personally and i know the grind but really it only takes a month or so to complete each of the areas so after that you no longer have to do them, only if you want to, and if its only 5-10mins i mean come on... plus the 1% c-ward that everyone and their mother is after.
If the AD coming from leaderhsip is a problem in the game economy and needs to be scaled back somehow it should be done at the account level IMO, not the character level. A player with a single or even a few characters is likely less of a problem than those with dozens. Any changes to the leadership profession that reduce AD income will effect the former more than the latter, who may just make a few more characters to compensate the loss.
On the orginal suggestion, I'm not interested in such a change. AD is more useful to me than any of the listed refining items.
Ok how about this one make it so that the leadership doesn't give you AD but instead gives you a key (bound) to a dungeon with lvl 60 monsters and at the end of completion the chest will contain a varying amount of AD say 5,000-10,000 maybe more idk, and a 1% c-ward chance, and possibly other goodies. So only 1 per char per day and you have to able to kill lvl 60's, obviously you get kits and other chests on the way through. Maybe no more then one per day per char daily style. People still have incentive to buy char slots and you actually have to log into the game to claim rewards.
An interesting and (I think) original idea.
I would suggest though that no AD is given initially, just a bound-to-account token which is automatically redeemed for an extra bonus (which could be AD, enchantments, chance at coal ward, etc) on completion of a level 60 dungeon by any character on the account. Each character with level 20 Leadership can run the task once per day, and the token also operates in the same fashion as a standard Epic key by allowing you to access the final chest as well.
So if you have say 5 characters with leadership at level 20, you could get the extra bonus for up to 5 dungeons a day.
saying people that have multiple characters are ruining the economy is pretty stupid. First off, the additional characters have to be PURCHASED. Cryptic just had a sale on character slots last week. Cryptic has tons of AD sinks already so there is no need for nerfing leadership. I have 9 level 60 characters, working on 4 more and just bought enough slots for 32 and I bought this with zen. That made me happy. You can buy all the refining points you want with zen. Try it, it is in the zen shop. Buy away and help the developers have a great Christmas this year! And you can be happy with all the shiny leveled up enchants.
Ok how about this one make it so that the leadership doesn't give you AD but instead gives you a key (bound) to a dungeon with lvl 60 monsters and at the end of completion the chest will contain a varying amount of AD say 5,000-10,000 maybe more idk, and a 1% c-ward chance, and possibly other goodies. So only 1 per char per day and you have to able to kill lvl 60's, obviously you get kits and other chests on the way through. Maybe no more then one per day per char daily style. People still have incentive to buy char slots and you actually have to log into the game to claim rewards.
saying people that have multiple characters are ruining the economy is pretty stupid. First off, the additional characters have to be PURCHASED. Cryptic just had a sale on character slots last week.
most of the players who farm Leadership do so from multiple free accounts in a lot of cases they probably never purchase a thing from cryptic directly. then they trade ad for zen and usually buy keys which can then be sent to a main and sold for even more than the cost to purchase .
The issue isn't Leadership, it's that you have (as others have pointed out) removed sinks from the game without adding new ones to take their place. I'd be beyond ticked of if they removed/reduced/nerfed Leadership. It's my only viable way of equipping my alts, upgrading companions, etc...
And no, I don't have dozens of characters (only 7 currently with one slot open for a Warlock) 6 of which have Leadership maxed out.
If they wanted to quickly correct the economy and sell some Zen they could simply reduce the cost of upgrading companions and mounts and introduce some niftly new green companions and mounts.
Yes, but if AD value is constantly inflating, I see no use of it. Also, other professions can generate decent income as well.
I disagree. For the casual gamer (which I am), other professions DO NOT provide simple AD generation - there is a lot more TIME involved crafting and selling items for AD. And the rate of AD accumulation for the casual gamer would be MUCH slower than in the current Leadership profession.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
saying people that have multiple characters are ruining the economy is pretty stupid. First off, the additional characters have to be PURCHASED. Cryptic just had a sale on character slots last week. Cryptic has tons of AD sinks already so there is no need for nerfing leadership. I have 9 level 60 characters, working on 4 more and just bought enough slots for 32 and I bought this with zen. That made me happy. You can buy all the refining points you want with zen. Try it, it is in the zen shop. Buy away and help the developers have a great Christmas this year! And you can be happy with all the shiny leveled up enchants.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Nah, I am just spending too much time here on the forum at this very moment (which is a bad idea), but chances are that I am even more casual player than you are.
See, both you and I use and like Leadership, however, thing that I'm trying to discuss here is is it really useful, and can it be replaced with something other than AD. I imagine people will be able to earn millions of AD in just a few days when Scourage Warlock comes out just by crafting shirts and pants. I would gladly jump on that train as well, but too much needs to be invested, both time and ingame money, and I have neither of those.
well, everybody can do the same here (aka multiple alts leadership), and it could be part of the game though. Moreover, it's one of the only thing where you class and gear does not count. Moreover, 3 months to level a toon is kinda hard and this game needs some rewards worth it.
so, basically to answer the proposals, the first one with refining points makes me sick as i'm not interested much in getting artifacts up...
to the second proposal, i surely pray for the guy with multiple DC characters or GF made for testing and so with not so much gs....
OMG what grind time log into gateway and click 2 buttons that's some crazy grind time...
Have you ever leveled leadership? It's the longest of any prof to take to 20. Lets say you have six slots you want to run leadership in. You need 96 merc's for that. To train 96 mercs is 1728 hours. Another 432 hours to level 2, then another 108 hours for the level 3's. So that's 2268 hours total. Now if you have six slots already you can divide that by six for 378 hours. That's 15.75 lets say 16 days just to get your assets taken care of. Now add in the slow xp gain for leveling. It's the longest one you can do.
You want rank 5 and 6 enchantments? Open lockboxes: they always give Rank 6 or better.
Opened my share of lockboxes and never got a >5 enchantment. So if it doesn't happen often enough, and considering the cost of keys, this is a non-solution.
Comments
I believe that was because the best time/AD payout task was "protect caravan" which is a very low level task, yet it provided significantly better reward than the L20 tasks.
Yes, but if AD value is constantly inflating, I see no use of it. Also, other professions can generate decent income as well.
That is true. That recent chicken egg thing seemed to help the economy a bit.
The inflation is simply because there is nothing worth spending AD on. Just about everything that cryptic tries to sell players is for zen only(bar the very occasional bazzar item). There is no consistent outflow of AD from peoples coffers. If there was more to buy with AD that didn't recycle AD like the AH then this problem wouldn't be so huge.
Ideas mentioned before:
Etc, etc, etc
inflation is the growth of the quantity of one money and higher prices are one of its consequence.
In neverwinter, effectively, i see two reasons about the fact prices are getting higher :
-the first one, as you already stated is the fact that there is no such things that we can buy with AD, and which don't recycle AD.
-the second one, as everybody seem to have forgotten it, is the fact most of the items wanted are getting rarier and rarier. We went from a BoE system to a BoP one, now Coalescent wards influx is limited, new refining system can explain maybe the loss in enchants number and most of the drop rates of everything went lower...
Second,
well, as a casual player, deleting this profession will make me quit the game. It's almost the only way i have to earn a normal amount of AD, as the best other thing is rhix pvp dailies for 8000rad in 2hours...
Finally to be honest, i think that we could not have an objective point of view without overall data on the game, so i would say, as anybody else, do leadership! it's a great reward after 3 months of grinding i think.
However I wouldn't do away with leadership completely.
Make it a requirement that you finish two daily missions to be able to do leadership tasks on any account.
That would keep people with leadership scripts from running 50 accounts and (however legal it is) flooding the market with AD.
Once again this is not a browser based flash game.
The fact that you can leadership across however many accounts is not intentional however legal it is at this time.
If people can play "Leadership" 24/7 and have an easier time getting gear/enchants/AD than someone who actually plays the game then it is broken and needs to be fixed.
Making leadership tasks have a requirement of fulfillling at least one or two dailies makes it nearly impossible for someone to run leadership scripts across 10-20 accts unless they actually play the game.
Which encourages multi-accounters and therefore people earn more, and cryptic lose slots selling character slots.
On the orginal suggestion, I'm not interested in such a change. AD is more useful to me than any of the listed refining items.
An interesting and (I think) original idea.
I would suggest though that no AD is given initially, just a bound-to-account token which is automatically redeemed for an extra bonus (which could be AD, enchantments, chance at coal ward, etc) on completion of a level 60 dungeon by any character on the account. Each character with level 20 Leadership can run the task once per day, and the token also operates in the same fashion as a standard Epic key by allowing you to access the final chest as well.
So if you have say 5 characters with leadership at level 20, you could get the extra bonus for up to 5 dungeons a day.
results = /uninstall
most of the players who farm Leadership do so from multiple free accounts in a lot of cases they probably never purchase a thing from cryptic directly. then they trade ad for zen and usually buy keys which can then be sent to a main and sold for even more than the cost to purchase .
And no, I don't have dozens of characters (only 7 currently with one slot open for a Warlock) 6 of which have Leadership maxed out.
If they wanted to quickly correct the economy and sell some Zen they could simply reduce the cost of upgrading companions and mounts and introduce some niftly new green companions and mounts.
I disagree. For the casual gamer (which I am), other professions DO NOT provide simple AD generation - there is a lot more TIME involved crafting and selling items for AD. And the rate of AD accumulation for the casual gamer would be MUCH slower than in the current Leadership profession.
Methinks thee to be a hard-core gamer . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
LOL! Nice!
I agree!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I think the "grind" reference was how long it takes to get to level 20.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Indeed! I heard him say that, too!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Nah, I am just spending too much time here on the forum at this very moment (which is a bad idea), but chances are that I am even more casual player than you are.
See, both you and I use and like Leadership, however, thing that I'm trying to discuss here is is it really useful, and can it be replaced with something other than AD. I imagine people will be able to earn millions of AD in just a few days when Scourage Warlock comes out just by crafting shirts and pants. I would gladly jump on that train as well, but too much needs to be invested, both time and ingame money, and I have neither of those.
Such is the nature of human beings.
so, basically to answer the proposals, the first one with refining points makes me sick as i'm not interested much in getting artifacts up...
to the second proposal, i surely pray for the guy with multiple DC characters or GF made for testing and so with not so much gs....
as already stated, just add AD sinks....
Have you ever leveled leadership? It's the longest of any prof to take to 20. Lets say you have six slots you want to run leadership in. You need 96 merc's for that. To train 96 mercs is 1728 hours. Another 432 hours to level 2, then another 108 hours for the level 3's. So that's 2268 hours total. Now if you have six slots already you can divide that by six for 378 hours. That's 15.75 lets say 16 days just to get your assets taken care of. Now add in the slow xp gain for leveling. It's the longest one you can do.
Opened my share of lockboxes and never got a >5 enchantment. So if it doesn't happen often enough, and considering the cost of keys, this is a non-solution.