The only reason for there to be a difference between tabbed and regular chill strike is if you have feats or class features equipped that would change it. Wizard's Wrath and Evocation boost AoE damage. So they will boost the damage of Chill Strike when it is on tab since it is AoE there. They won't affect Chill Strike when it is not tabbed.
I have tested Chill Strike and got identical damage between tabbed and regular when I had no feats selected.
Hmm... I didn't choose Focused Wizardry/Wizard's Wrath on Preview but I was with Evocation. It must've been that then.
(´･ ω ･`)
0
seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and share a few more changes that will be hitting in the next week or two.
We still want Wizards to feel like a viable DPS class while they are specced into Thaumatuge (and a bit more group utility focused in Renegade) so we are making some buffs to feats in those trees to reinforce that.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Feedback: Perhaps with this, you might want to change the description of renegade and thaumaturge because if you read them, both they seem backwards as they are now. Yes I am a renegade and with the current setup on live I hit pretty hard and very peaky like the description states, but with these new changes, I will be more of a thaum per the current thaum description.
Thaumaturge: The thaumaturge is a master at harnessing arcane power to rain damage and destruction down to foes.
Renegade: The renegade knows when the right moment to strike is, using smaller spells to outsmart the enemy and create opportunities for substantial damage.
if you mean by creating opportunities for allies to create substantial damage, the name renegade doesn't fit at all because when I hear renegade, I see someone who is a single player who go against the grain and does massive effects on it's own. Just my .02 cents. I feel like it's time to abandon my beloved tree that not very many choose to go with in the previous mods because majority of CWs I encounter are thaum thanks to the buff/debuff tree it has. Really wish you just left the renegade tree alone.
Here are my dps numbers for at-wills on a single target. This is with no feats chosen and no class features that would boost anything (i.e. evocation or chilling presence).
Storm Pillar - 2,231
Magic Missile - 1,489
Chilling Cloud - 1,387
Ray of Frost - 1,025
A few things to note:
-It is unlikely that in a real fight that you will be able to keep up 5 arcane stacks the entire time like I did in my test. So, the real damage of magic missile will be less. Probably less than Chilling Cloud. Also if you use Evocation or Chilling Presence Chilling Cloud would easily surpass magic missile. If you use both then it's not even a competition - Chilling Cloud would smoke magic missile.
-Storm Pillar is far and away the best single target at-will.
-No matter what your weapon, Intelligence, or power are these values should scale accordingly. So Storm Pillar should do about 50% more damage than Magic Missile no matter where you are in the game. Only feats will change their relative values.
I don't mind Storm Pillar being better, given it is tied to a paragon path, but it's rather depressing how Magic Missile seems rather out of place now. I don't suppose the Devs could tweak it and add some utility to restore its value.
FEEDBACK:CW vs GF-no contest GF dominates due to guard that lasts forever and CW not inflicting enough damage to even be a threat. I took the middle road for the increased damage for Shard and Icy Rays. Damage was next to nothing. Open world I can get away to a safe zone easily but in a dom match I wouldnt have the Ice forge pots so yeah, not going to be good.
FEEDBACK: CW vs Ranger-no contest ranger still take even less damage than the two GFs I fought. Ridiculous still. Ice knife took a whole 5% of rangers life...so yeah there was a gear difference but 5%?
CW will continue to be worthless in PVP. If these matters arent addressed I see a loss of revenue from the people who love the CW such as myself.
CWs are taking a massive hit across the board and anyone saying "its not that bad" is full of s$%t.
Single target damage is reduced (in best case scenario) 33% and thats not bad?
The big numbers for CWs are from groups of mobs. So the nerf is multiplied by the number of mobs.
If you dont understand what im saying go to icewind dale pull 5 or 6 mobs on live and you can kill them all in one rotation (time stop, shard, lightning).
Then try the same thing on preview they are all still alive and your running till things come off cooldown. Sadly they may not be dead after the second round either.
Now imagine how that will work in a dungeon.
The problem is that cryptic doesnt make small adjustment to one aspect of a class. They change everything and wonder why the class is ruined. They are nerfing damage,cc ability, cast times, feats and totally changing feats to work in a different mechanic.
The underlying reason they are nerfing classes AE dps and control is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor fix to pve. To make it more "challenging", not by fixing the dungeons like you might expect, but weakening the classes so that 30min dungeon turns into a 2-3hour slog.
The only thing i care about when im playing a game is this game FUN. This game is becoming increasing not fun.
I really enjoy playing a CW in PvE but I personally find it a well balanced struggle keeping a CW alive in end game content at present. To be honest I stopped playing PvP regularly a few months ago because being cannon fodder in a no-win situation against certain classes is just too demoralising when you are repeatedly hunted down. I think the designers here have missed something with the suggested changes which may not be obvious. A CW has real problems with speed (we are slow and cannot outrun), AC (we are hit all the time), we cannot hide (even behind other players) and we can only control the battlefield (in PvE) for about 30-40% of the time. So in Neverwinter (as in DnD) we are left with balancing 'high damage', 'mobility' and 'defence' otherwise we die often! Our main strategy is currently to take-down 'monsters' using 'high damage' as quickly as possible, control and move - of course this makes CW's look like 'damage' engines. So the start of this thread seems to be aimed at reducing a CW ability to damage and looks to reduce control and speed (rate of spells) but fails to balance the CW out with any sort of increased ability to survive ... currently parties (PUGs) want a CW (just as they want a DC, GF etc.) and in general pay the 'cost' to keep them alive... the changes suggested look to threaten this balance as well... So I have to ask - are these changes really necessary?
Now: two particular changes which suggest that more thinking needs to be done here... firstly singularity is one of the very few ways of helping a party from being overwhelmed and reduction from 15 to 8 will equate to more party deaths and end fight failures... secondly reducing the effectiveness of the Shard kind of misses the point of this spell... it's a chaotic and fun spell which takes skill and luck, because it will potentially miss some or all of it's intended targets (particularly if there is lag around) - there is a real sense of satisfaction when this hits and knocks monsters prone... again why change these?
FEEDBACK:CW vs GF-no contest GF dominates due to guard that lasts forever and CW not inflicting enough damage to even be a threat. I took the middle road for the increased damage for Shard and Icy Rays. Damage was next to nothing. Open world I can get away to a safe zone easily but in a dom match I wouldnt have the Ice forge pots so yeah, not going to be good.
Of course Icy-Ray to ray of frost still works but with the laughable damage, it really doesnt matter. Your rotation ends and they start bouncing you and you know how it ends...eventually. I was using standard Shard EF IR CS oppressor a time or 2 then thaum. I dont want us to just dominate as the GWF and now HR have, I simply want for any class to ask themselves whether it worth the risk to attack a CW,not for them to say, " oh its a CW let me get my kill".
0
seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited July 2014
So I finally ran ACT on both live and preview for my renegade both running biggrin tomb. One thing to note, i both used the pet and coin so the mileage may vary. On the test, I rolled go for the vitals but forgot to note the coin. The live, I rolled relax and crit so you will notice I have more crit on the char map but bear in mind I have more crit severity on the test server vs my live. I usually hit upwards 80K on live on SS but today only hit 50K+ because my timing seems off but still respectable damage. The playtest only hit 30K, which isn't bad but on the live I was hitting constantly around 40K. I am using perfect vorpal for my enchant as well.
live caps
playtest caps
So anyway, still very sad for the nerfs but I guess I'll keep testing and should test once more without the pet and coin buffs next time so I get a cleaner answer on these new changes. Again devs, please please please don't kill my peaky tree, it's what make renegade unique and being a group buff token guys is not what a renegade is suppose to be. It's suppose to be high risk, high reward playstyle and mean't for the aggressive players who takes the risks to gain massive rewards with proper spell placement and timing.
So anyway, still very sad for the nerfs but I guess I'll keep testing and should test once more without the pet and coin buffs next time so I get a cleaner answer on these new changes. Again devs, please please please don't kill my peaky tree, it's what make renegade unique and being a group buff token guys is not what a renegade is suppose to be. It's suppose to be high risk, high reward playstyle and mean't for the aggressive players who takes the risks to gain massive rewards with proper spell placement and timing.
If you dont understand what im saying go to icewind dale pull 5 or 6 mobs on live and you can kill them all in one rotation (time stop, shard, lightning).
And you don't understand why CW was nerfed? Trivialising the highest level open world content in the game seems fine to you?
As far as PVE goes the content has always been trivial, and truthfully they havent really changed the PVE playstyle for a CW at all. They moved some damage around in order to differentiate between the CW and Warlock. As far as PVP goes though they have utterly ruined the CW. I was hoping for some buffing in mod 4 for PVP, but the CW has been destroyed. Single target damage is gone (we never had much relative to the other classes anyway). Control hasnt gotten what it needed to make the CW feasible as a control class in PVP. The best single target Control class is now the GF. I would like to hear the "vision" the devs have for the CW now as AE controller isnt it in PVP. Damage moved to time stop from Shard means we will have to choose between time stop and Icy rays maybe, which IR is now our only spell that does any damage.
Really Twilight? What do you know. Your sig says you have a MOF CW. So if this is true. You have no idea what you are talking about. Try being a spellstorm thaum or renegade. My entire tree has been rendered useless (SS Rene). That seems fine to you?
Your tree is getting buffed. So now you will outperform... oh never mind. I understand your lack of sympathy now.
First they came for the Rogues, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Rogue.
Then they came for the Great Weapon Fighters, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Great Weapon Fighter.
Then they came for the Spellstorm Thaumaturges, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Spellstorm Thaumaturge.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Rework: Change Shard Of Endless Avalanche to Meteor Storm Effect: Prones all targets Visible and Invisible (max 8) within 30 feet; Control immune targets are not proned but can not deflect the attack.
This helps in many ways overcome the issues with terrain obstacles interacting with SoTEA. It makes the power easier to control as it's a 30 foot burst (closest targets first)
I can understand the damage nerfs, as cw's do do too much damage in comparison to other classes, but why is their control being nerfed also? Singularity for example, 8 targets?? that's unreasonable for the amount of adds that this game sends at you. It also wouldn't make any sense because GF's aoe taunt now target caps at 20. If they are tanking that much adds, then as the Control Wizard, one should be able to control all of those adds, if not, the majority of them. Also increasing casting time on multiple spells isn't too good either. Even now with shorter casts, CW's get killed while trying to cast AC/OF/Steal Time. Like I've said though, the damage nerf is understandable, just don't nerf our controlling capabilities with it, as this class will then become useless. Not saying a 33/60% damage nerf on Shard of Avalanche don't sadden me, but if you take our huge damage, give us more control to compensate. Don't take both. Plus the name of the class wouldn't make sense if they can't control.
^ Yeah. Nerfing one class to make another class useful is unfair to the class which is being nerfed. Arcane Singularity being a daily power whose purpose is pulling mobs becomes 8 targets is unacceptable. It isn't Arcane Singularity's fault that it could pull 15 targets. It is the contents. So CW's daily power should not receive that treatment.
I still disagree with the massive damage nerf.
This has always been a wizards role in D&D... aoe damage. No one was complaining about the damage cws were doing pre-artifacts
now that everyone has 3 artifacts, full tier-2 armor, 1 of the weapon sets, rank 7s and up for enchants... rank 8 if not better weapon
enchants... running tier-2 dungeons at twice the minimum gs... all of a sudden they are doing too much damage.
The wizards and the gwfs dont need a nerf, they some harder dungeons to run for the gs we have now. We need reasons to have
a gf/tr/hr in the party, those classes need to be able to contribute to the damage/party survivability.
what they do not realize is that the population of NWO with each passing day is fading every day logging least because these "disrespectful extravagances" nerfs and the population suffering with this too! indeed where they are going all? ah were nerfed too! would be comical if it were not tragic. I'm already with one foot out.
really hope to make changes where changes should be made and to remove the overeating and not simply use the "nerf wars" (you do not read the forum this is the feeling passes?) - established in the community through the fault of you - to finish with a class as are doing and how they did with other already!
^ Yeah. Nerfing one class to make another class useful is unfair to the class which is being nerfed. Arcane Singularity being a daily power whose purpose is pulling mobs becomes 8 targets is unacceptable. It isn't Arcane Singularity's fault that it could pull 15 targets. It is the contents. So CW's daily power should not receive that treatment.
Maybe if they rebalance the content to never have more than 8 enemies in play at any one time?
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Bug: I am unable to play/test on the preview server (using AMD 2 core). After character creation I get a CTD.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Bug: I am unable to play/test on the preview server (using AMD 2 core). After character creation I get a CTD.
This is not appropriate feedback for this thread. Please use the preview bug report forum for matters like this. This thread is exclusively for feedback relating to control wizards that has come from direct testing on the preview shard (and not speculation or guesswork).
This class feature does not change the damage of Sudden Storm, Icy Terrain, or Ray of Enfeeblement. Each spell does the same damage to an enemy no matter how many stacks of chill have been applied.
* Giving the icy terrain a larger radius like Thorn Ward
* Give Icy Rays and Chill Strike a longer stun
* Give freeze a longer stun
* Ignore more or all of the tenacity resistance
* Give entangle longer duration
* Repel a longer push
* Add extra chill on all TABBED chill powers
* Shorter cool-downs on single target powers
* Remove the longer casting-time on Ice Knife (everyone can dodge it now)
* Giving the icy terrain a larger radius like Thorn Ward
* Give Icy Rays and Chill Strike a longer stun
* Give freeze a longer stun
* Ignore more or all of the tenacity resistance
* Give entangle longer duration
* Repel a longer push
* Add extra chill on all TABBED chill powers
* Shorter cool-downs on single target powers
* Remove the longer casting-time on Ice Knife (everyone can dodge it now)
Icy Terrain - Larger Radius - I Agree Icy rays and Chill strike - stun time is fine - increase Damage and cooldown Entangle - longer cooldown and increase damage Chilling Cloud get's to 6 chill but will NOT Freeze Repel - longer Cool Down, More damage
Change Ray of enfeeblement from a Dot to Direct Damage w/o Dot
Icy Terrain - Larger Radius - I Agree Icy rays and Chill strike - stun time is fine - increase Damage and cooldown Entangle - longer cooldown and increase damage Chilling Cloud get's to 6 chill but will NOT Freeze Repel - longer Cool Down, More damage
Change Ray of enfeeblement from a Dot to Direct Damage w/o Dot
We are control wizards. Longer coodowns = we lose control. I rather take control and keep the cooldowns than have more damage with more cooldown.
(PVP) Shard is still hitting for 1/2k crit.
60% dmg nerf is just too much especially in pvp where almost every other encounter of every other class crits for double or more. Cmon other classes have DoT encounters that ticks for 1/2k for like 10 seconds.
In pvp this encounter requires a lot of practice to master it, it's not an autotarget spell.
As i said a billion times (and i will keep saying till you guys fix this), differenciate the mastery type and give it more dmg with a max target limit.
Comments
Hmm... I didn't choose Focused Wizardry/Wizard's Wrath on Preview but I was with Evocation. It must've been that then.
Feedback: Perhaps with this, you might want to change the description of renegade and thaumaturge because if you read them, both they seem backwards as they are now. Yes I am a renegade and with the current setup on live I hit pretty hard and very peaky like the description states, but with these new changes, I will be more of a thaum per the current thaum description.
Thaumaturge: The thaumaturge is a master at harnessing arcane power to rain damage and destruction down to foes.
Renegade: The renegade knows when the right moment to strike is, using smaller spells to outsmart the enemy and create opportunities for substantial damage.
if you mean by creating opportunities for allies to create substantial damage, the name renegade doesn't fit at all because when I hear renegade, I see someone who is a single player who go against the grain and does massive effects on it's own. Just my .02 cents. I feel like it's time to abandon my beloved tree that not very many choose to go with in the previous mods because majority of CWs I encounter are thaum thanks to the buff/debuff tree it has. Really wish you just left the renegade tree alone.
I don't mind Storm Pillar being better, given it is tied to a paragon path, but it's rather depressing how Magic Missile seems rather out of place now. I don't suppose the Devs could tweak it and add some utility to restore its value.
FEEDBACK: CW vs Ranger-no contest ranger still take even less damage than the two GFs I fought. Ridiculous still. Ice knife took a whole 5% of rangers life...so yeah there was a gear difference but 5%?
CW will continue to be worthless in PVP. If these matters arent addressed I see a loss of revenue from the people who love the CW such as myself.
Single target damage is reduced (in best case scenario) 33% and thats not bad?
The big numbers for CWs are from groups of mobs. So the nerf is multiplied by the number of mobs.
If you dont understand what im saying go to icewind dale pull 5 or 6 mobs on live and you can kill them all in one rotation (time stop, shard, lightning).
Then try the same thing on preview they are all still alive and your running till things come off cooldown. Sadly they may not be dead after the second round either.
Now imagine how that will work in a dungeon.
The problem is that cryptic doesnt make small adjustment to one aspect of a class. They change everything and wonder why the class is ruined. They are nerfing damage,cc ability, cast times, feats and totally changing feats to work in a different mechanic.
The underlying reason they are nerfing classes AE dps and control is a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor fix to pve. To make it more "challenging", not by fixing the dungeons like you might expect, but weakening the classes so that 30min dungeon turns into a 2-3hour slog.
The only thing i care about when im playing a game is this game FUN. This game is becoming increasing not fun.
Aren't PvE enemies on the preview server set to an easier level than they are on Live as well?
Now: two particular changes which suggest that more thinking needs to be done here... firstly singularity is one of the very few ways of helping a party from being overwhelmed and reduction from 15 to 8 will equate to more party deaths and end fight failures... secondly reducing the effectiveness of the Shard kind of misses the point of this spell... it's a chaotic and fun spell which takes skill and luck, because it will potentially miss some or all of it's intended targets (particularly if there is lag around) - there is a real sense of satisfaction when this hits and knocks monsters prone... again why change these?
live caps
playtest caps
So anyway, still very sad for the nerfs but I guess I'll keep testing and should test once more without the pet and coin buffs next time so I get a cleaner answer on these new changes. Again devs, please please please don't kill my peaky tree, it's what make renegade unique and being a group buff token guys is not what a renegade is suppose to be. It's suppose to be high risk, high reward playstyle and mean't for the aggressive players who takes the risks to gain massive rewards with proper spell placement and timing.
ren·e·gade
ˈreniˌgād/
noun
noun: renegade; plural noun: renegades
1. A person who deserts and betrays an organization, country, or set of principles.
Is the group support spec line? Do they even read what they label stuff anymore?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Open world is almost always trivial to dungeon geared toons. If you tried to make it non-trivial to bis toons, it would be impossible to new players.
Your tree is getting buffed. So now you will outperform... oh never mind. I understand your lack of sympathy now.
First they came for the Rogues, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Rogue.
Then they came for the Great Weapon Fighters, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Great Weapon Fighter.
Then they came for the Spellstorm Thaumaturges, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Spellstorm Thaumaturge.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
R.I.P. to all SS Renegades
I didn't know it was possible to so completely neuter and trivialize such a poignant quote. But here we are.
This helps in many ways overcome the issues with terrain obstacles interacting with SoTEA. It makes the power easier to control as it's a 30 foot burst (closest targets first)
This has always been a wizards role in D&D... aoe damage. No one was complaining about the damage cws were doing pre-artifacts
now that everyone has 3 artifacts, full tier-2 armor, 1 of the weapon sets, rank 7s and up for enchants... rank 8 if not better weapon
enchants... running tier-2 dungeons at twice the minimum gs... all of a sudden they are doing too much damage.
The wizards and the gwfs dont need a nerf, they some harder dungeons to run for the gs we have now. We need reasons to have
a gf/tr/hr in the party, those classes need to be able to contribute to the damage/party survivability.
really hope to make changes where changes should be made and to remove the overeating and not simply use the "nerf wars" (you do not read the forum this is the feeling passes?) - established in the community through the fault of you - to finish with a class as are doing and how they did with other already!
Maybe if they rebalance the content to never have more than 8 enemies in play at any one time?
I am unable to play/test on the preview server (using AMD 2 core). After character creation I get a CTD.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
This is not appropriate feedback for this thread. Please use the preview bug report forum for matters like this. This thread is exclusively for feedback relating to control wizards that has come from direct testing on the preview shard (and not speculation or guesswork).
This class feature does not change the damage of Sudden Storm, Icy Terrain, or Ray of Enfeeblement. Each spell does the same damage to an enemy no matter how many stacks of chill have been applied.
* Giving the icy terrain a larger radius like Thorn Ward
* Give Icy Rays and Chill Strike a longer stun
* Give freeze a longer stun
* Ignore more or all of the tenacity resistance
* Give entangle longer duration
* Repel a longer push
* Add extra chill on all TABBED chill powers
* Shorter cool-downs on single target powers
* Remove the longer casting-time on Ice Knife (everyone can dodge it now)
Icy Terrain - Larger Radius - I Agree
Icy rays and Chill strike - stun time is fine - increase Damage and cooldown
Entangle - longer cooldown and increase damage
Chilling Cloud get's to 6 chill but will NOT Freeze
Repel - longer Cool Down, More damage
Change Ray of enfeeblement from a Dot to Direct Damage w/o Dot
We are control wizards. Longer coodowns = we lose control. I rather take control and keep the cooldowns than have more damage with more cooldown.
Shard is still hitting for 1/2k crit.
60% dmg nerf is just too much especially in pvp where almost every other encounter of every other class crits for double or more. Cmon other classes have DoT encounters that ticks for 1/2k for like 10 seconds.
In pvp this encounter requires a lot of practice to master it, it's not an autotarget spell.
As i said a billion times (and i will keep saying till you guys fix this), differenciate the mastery type and give it more dmg with a max target limit.
Oppressor
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