silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited June 2014
I agree.. not going to work in the way they are going to implement it. I still dont see why they are not just adjusting a few skills down, instead of nerf hammering the class into non use.
GWF is my favorite class to play in this game.. mostly becuase they made the healer in this game, the lamest healer Ive ever played in any MMO ever, since my playing time during EQ. CW was second.
Im moving on to a HR now it appears, as GWF will be retired after these changes. I think CW will be semi ok for pve/pvp now though. Sux for the people who like it now though.
Instead of making fun viable routes for the rest of the classes, they decided to take the two fun classes and try to make them boring.. yuck.
I just realized something reading this thread. Not a single one of you, who have complained and whined, have gone to test the GWF changes. NOT. A. Single. One.
It is the same on the preview forums under the GWF changes. Everyone who complained have just read the patch notes and immediately picked up their pitchforks at the sight of a reduction. You haven't tested the build on the preview shard. That's what the preview shard was created for. It's for you to test it yourself. Then to top it all off, you post solutions that you "think/ feel" will work that are more or less baseless conjecture. Do yourself and the entire Neverwinter community and go test your beloved GWF on the shard. Once you've tried it out for a few days and adjusted yourself to the changes, then provide feedback as to how it can be tweaked, if necessary. Please.
I just realized something reading this thread. Not a single one of you, who have complained and whined, have gone to test the GWF changes. NOT. A. Single. One.
It is the same on the preview forums under the GWF changes. Everyone who complained have just read the patch notes and immediately picked up their pitchforks at the sight of a reduction. You haven't tested the build on the preview shard. That's what the preview shard was created for. It's for you to test it yourself. Then to top it all off, you post solutions that you "think/ feel" will work that are more or less baseless conjecture. Do yourself and the entire Neverwinter community and go test your beloved GWF on the shard. Once you've tried it out for a few days and adjusted yourself to the changes, then provide feedback as to how it can be tweaked, if necessary. Please.
Worth saying twice.
--- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
I just realized something reading this thread. Not a single one of you, who have complained and whined, have gone to test the GWF changes. NOT. A. Single. One.
It is the same on the preview forums under the GWF changes. Everyone who complained have just read the patch notes and immediately picked up their pitchforks at the sight of a reduction. You haven't tested the build on the preview shard. That's what the preview shard was created for. It's for you to test it yourself. Then to top it all off, you post solutions that you "think/ feel" will work that are more or less baseless conjecture. Do yourself and the entire Neverwinter community and go test your beloved GWF on the shard. Once you've tried it out for a few days and adjusted yourself to the changes, then provide feedback as to how it can be tweaked, if necessary. Please.
That makes no sense. We can recognize a rotten egg, even if we're not bitds. 90% removed, nothing to compensate, what do you need? Now post an apology and try to be more constructive next time.
How can you say such a thing like nobody here has tested the PTR? I've personally tested every GWF change currently on the PTR. And while 2 of the changes listed in the Previewshard Forum aren't currently on the PTR, most of what everyone is complaining about the future for GWF in Mod 4 is currently true on the PTR.
And more importantly, something that isn't immediately obvious when looking at the current proposed GWF changes, is that IBS can be dodged even if used immediately after a takedown, frontline surge, or roar. The only class not capable of avoiding the damage from IBS is other GWFs, even GFs have time to block.
When you consider that IBS will no longer be relevant in PVP, we are left with only low damage encounters as well as restoring strike, which suffers from the same problems that IBS will. Meaning of the encounters left that make up the usual GWF rotation, one has been reduced by 30%.
The short version is, while the GWF will definitely be toned down in PVE, it will be non-functional in PVP.
Most ppl tested the GWF on preview, before they posted here. I tested the GWF on preview in PVP and PVE. Sentinel and Destro. They are not competitive to TR, HR, CW. I did not fight DC or GF, so no info there, but balancing should result in a balance not in a massive nerf. BTW I got a 19k GWF, so he should be able to beat 14k TRs etc. and do some HE alone, as even my DC can solo some on live.
On preview HR can go for Remorarz alone atm (time would be a problem, but he survives the fight) and a decent geared GWF dies doing totem of ... . Thats real balance, not.
Don't like the mechanics of Swordmaster, on a GF or GWF (I have both classes), so this kind of sucks. Understandable, but still sucks.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Wrong, I tested it in PVP and PVE. Sentinel and Destro. They are not competitive to TR, HR, CW. I did not fight DC or GF, so no info there, but balancing should result in a balance not in a massive nerf. BTW I got a 19k GWF, so he should be able to beat 14k TRs etc. and do some HE alone, as even my DC can solo some on live.
On preview HR can go for Remorarz alone atm (time would be a problem, but he survives the fight) and a decent geared GWF dies doing totem of ... . Thats real balance, not.
I couldnt care less what a HR does solo but my 17k IV Destroyer solos everything(that I have tried ) in the Pass on Preview. Totems are cake, Corrupted Wolves are cake, Corrupted Yetis and Bears = cake. Havent tried the worms yet but they owned my GF on Preview.
EDIT - the above is possible thanks to gear, that is it. A GWF of lesser GS will fail some of the things I can solo with the current joke of unstoppable(on preview)..
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You should care, if you do PvP or give **** about balance. Similar gear should result in similar surviveability for DDs. Thats what I see as balance and this 'adjustments' are about balance, at last, thats what has been claimed.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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fr3akout3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 72
I couldnt care less what a HR does solo but my 17k IV Destroyer solos everything(that I have tried ) in the Pass on Preview. Totems are cake, Corrupted Wolves are cake, Corrupted Yetis and Bears = cake. Havent tried the worms yet but they owned my GF on Preview.
EDIT - the above is possible thanks to gear, that is it. A GWF of lesser GS will fail some of the things I can solo with the current joke of unstoppable(on preview)..
How many adds do you pull?
Why don't you record your cake and show us some proof of the slice?
Otherwise you are just talk and are trying to bash the gwf since u play gf.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Why don't you record your cake and show us some proof of the slice?
Otherwise you are just talk and are trying to bash the gwf since u play gf.
IF y have TOP Gear like BI puri version wepon sett too + restoring strike and forget about destroyer y can handle mybe 3 giants but y will not kill it in 5 min .(ofc top enchants
I can tell y i mastered my favored class in pve i can solo any dungeon in live not easy(and if i make 1 mistake i am dead ) but i dont belive i can do it in lesser gear.
So pulling 5-6 brutal bears or 4 giants = dead GWF .I dont belive him only if he show me a vid from prev.
Most ppl tested the GWF on preview, before they posted here. I tested the GWF on preview in PVP and PVE. Sentinel and Destro. They are not competitive to TR, HR, CW. I did not fight DC or GF, so no info there, but balancing should result in a balance not in a massive nerf. BTW I got a 19k GWF, so he should be able to beat 14k TRs etc. and do some HE alone, as even my DC can solo some on live.
On preview HR can go for Remorarz alone atm (time would be a problem, but he survives the fight) and a decent geared GWF dies doing totem of ... . Thats real balance, not.
@Asterotg- Most people DO NOT test the changes before they post. I am personally thanking you for the fact that you have and then posted your feedback. But for this thread all who posted before me have not. Re-read the posts. It is filled with "I THINK these changes are (boring/ stupid/ game breaking...)..." or "I FEEL this will be (boring/ stupid/ game breaking...)". They've provided no concrete evidence only conjecture with misguided and displaced angst over losing statistical power from the changes.
How can you say such a thing like nobody here has tested the PTR? I've personally tested every GWF change currently on the PTR. And while 2 of the changes listed in the Previewshard Forum aren't currently on the PTR, most of what everyone is complaining about the future for GWF in Mod 4 is currently true on the PTR.
@bucklittle - You nor asterogt have posted in this thread prior to me coming in here. So I will keep my stance. If you have tested then please continue to post your results. Everyone else piggy backing and quoting others as if it was their own personal experience is not helping anyone, least of all the developers. Also to your other comment. The preview shard threads on the GWF changes, the first 15 pages are of people who responded minutes or a few hours after the change went up on the shard. They didn't test or didn't give ample testing before they brought righteous fury onto the forums. That isn't helping the developers in the slightest. People need to relax, take a breath.
@vortix44- Your statement is absolutely false. You CANNOT just read a change and expect to know how it plays out with all it's fine tuning. (For example, despite the written change to lower the effectiveness and duration of stealth in PvP, players have found a way to remain in permanent stealth mode by utilizing key skills and ability scores that were not "recommended".)
How am I not being constructive in asking a everyone to go test the changes and then proceed to the preview feedback forums with their findings? How are YOU being constructive here when the developers are not looking for your feedback in this section? How is ANYONE being constructive by making knee-jerk suggestions without proper testing and analysis?
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fr3akout3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 72
IF y have TOP Gear like BI puri version wepon sett too + restoring strike and forget about destroyer y can handle mybe 3 giants but y will not kill it in 5 min .(ofc top enchants
I can tell y i mastered my favored class in pve i can solo any dungeon in live not easy(and if i make 1 mistake i am dead ) but i dont belive i can do it in lesser gear.
So pulling 5-6 brutal bears or 4 giants = dead GWF .I dont belive him only if he show me a vid from prev.
Now this is logic and makes much more sense.
I completely understand where you are coming from as I have tested it myself as well.
Why don't you record your cake and show us some proof of the slice?
Otherwise you are just talk and are trying to bash the gwf since u play gf.
Obviously I dont pull all of them at once. One group of corrupted wolves at a time with Roar/Restoring Strike/IBS and that leaves me enough time to finish the HE solo. Use your heads a little, most things can be figured out if you do.
PS: taking some of my precious time to even write here is just enough. To try and prove something to a bunch of strangers by taking even more of my time is not my cup of tea.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
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fr3akout3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 72
Obviously I dont pull all of them at once. One group of corrupted wolves at a time with Roar/Restoring Strike/IBS and that leaves me enough time to finish the HE solo. Use your heads a little, most things can be figured out if you do.
PS: taking some of my precious time to even write here is just enough. To try and prove something to a bunch of strangers by taking even more of my time is not my cup of tea.
Since you are the god mode cake man I believe that it would be very educational to share your skills that you are throwing out here?
@vortix44- Your statement is absolutely false. You CANNOT just read a change and expect to know how it plays out with all it's fine tuning. (For example, despite the written change to lower the effectiveness and duration of stealth in PvP, players have found a way to remain in permanent stealth mode by utilizing key skills and ability scores that were not "recommended".)
No, I am right and you are wrong. If your boss tells you Ok from newt month on your paycheck will be 10% of your current paycheck, you don't need to wait one month and actually receive the check to know that it's a huge loss for you. Obvious nerf is obvious, and fine tuning is fine tuning, it's tuning the one percent or half-percent. Unless you can prove otherwise with your charts and figure from the Preview, all the statements of the community stand, and all yours have to get discarded.
Unstoppable dont Need a nerf realy, it only Needs a Little Tuning not changed to 5-10 % its to hard, the most GWF DD´s die realy quik, only that one with the best gear and a lot of Lifedrain will stay i think.
My Idea is Change it for DD´s to 15-20% and delete the damage drain of Unstoppable.
For Tanks to 25-50% with Sentinel endfeat and give them more Temporary Hitpoints around 10% more in Unstoppable.make them more Tanky but still with the damage drain.
Or for ALL without Feats 15-35% and some more temporary Hitpoints, to stay them alive in a see of Mobs in Pve and still a Little nerf to PvP.
Weapenmasters strike doesnt Need more damage! it Needs a quiker Animation, its terrrible slow, without Unstoppable you can drink a Coffee before he hits, a quiker Animation get more Damage and make it worth to use it.
And Steel Blitz Needs realy a higher Chance on Singlehits totaly useless on one Alone or Change it to you get hit and have a Chance to rehit the other like a Parry.
At the End what about Reaping strike it Needs an Edit, at now i press and then it fires up but useless in all Encounters, please overwork it to i press one time then it loads and then it fires up but with a shorter loadtime, it takes to Long so no one want to use it.
Daring Shout, Come and get it, Battle Fury they all Need a Little ground damage, if you use them you loose one Slot for a damage skill.
No, I am right and you are wrong. If your boss tells you Ok from newt month on your paycheck will be 10% of your current paycheck, you don't need to wait one month and actually receive the check to know that it's a huge loss for you. Obvious nerf is obvious, and fine tuning is fine tuning, it's tuning the one percent or half-percent. Unless you can prove otherwise with your charts and figure from the Preview, all the statements of the community stand, and all yours have to get discarded.
Once again, you are looking at it in a vacuum. And once again, you ignored the rest of my post because your own stance was threatened. (Or you are just too lazy or don't want to check things out for yourself.) Which is fine do what you want. Just don't go promoting it to the rest of the community.
So, I am going to standing on my soapbox again. Go test it before you make blind assumptions. Go test because it puts more information in your hands about the situation so you can make better judgments. Go test it so you can get an idea where the developers are trying to take the class. Go test it so the developers will actually 'listen' to your feedback. Go test it because it is free to do so and won't cost you anything except a little time. Go test it because if you ARE right about your initial stance you will have a better base from which to stand on. Just GO TEST IT YOURSELF and stop piggybacking. That's all I've ever promoted.
If one knows their class and an inbound nerf is spelled out with obvious implications...that, in most cases, should be enough to give an educated opinion. The unstoppable neutering would be a good example.
If one knows their class and an inbound nerf is spelled out with obvious implications...that, in most cases, should be enough to give an educated opinion. The unstoppable neutering would be a good example.
Unfortunately, while you might know your class, you do not seem to understand inter class synergies and how those impact these changes.
The Unstoppable tuning is a perfect example. The LIVE version of Unstoppable allows almost any GWF to immediately increase their damage resistance to the 80% hard cap. It does not matter how sloppy you play. Hit the Unstoppable button and you get to the maximum DR amount possible.
The Test version of unstoppable does not automatically get you to the 80% DR hard cap, unless you have the Sentinel capstone feat. You actually need to have a little skill and play with a skilled DC to get to the hard cap of 80%. So the Test version is actually making the DC a useful class to have around and is requiring you to learn to play nice with other classes.
Unfortunately, while you might know your class, you do not seem to understand inter class synergies and how those impact these changes.
The Unstoppable tuning is a perfect example. The LIVE version of Unstoppable allows almost any GWF to immediately increase their damage resistance to the 80% hard cap. It does not matter how sloppy you play. Hit the Unstoppable button and you get to the maximum DR amount possible.
The Test version of unstoppable does not automatically get you to the 80% DR hard cap, unless you have the Sentinel capstone feat. You actually need to have a little skill and play with a skilled DC to get to the hard cap of 80%. So the Test version is actually making the DC a useful class to have around and is requiring you to learn to play nice with other classes.
I don't understand inter class synergies, eh? Man, you sure got a lot out of the few words I posted. Assume much?
How bout after reading the patch notes I understood what the changes would mean. Then, I went to the test server and it was exactly as I thought. I would have to have a DC to play in the red the way I like to...but the reduction in unstop is still a hair too much.
You may even be surprised, since you believe everyone is apparently shortsighted, we even made sure to bring a GF. We wanted to see how the changes were workin' and if he could hold the mobs with the new block system since I was planning on kiting around more. Crazy that someone besides you would think about group synergy.
Also, another note..in my guild we make it a point to play nice with other classes. We also ask in LFG for low geared folks with no experience required to join us on runs that the may not be able to get.
Great Weapon Fighter: Threatening Rush: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Frontline Surge: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Weaponmaster's Strike: This power now deals ~10% more damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Flourish: This power now deals ~15% more damage and stuns for 3 seconds (2 seconds on players).
Unfortunately, while you might know your class, you do not seem to understand inter class synergies and how those impact these changes.
The Unstoppable tuning is a perfect example. The LIVE version of Unstoppable allows almost any GWF to immediately increase their damage resistance to the 80% hard cap. It does not matter how sloppy you play. Hit the Unstoppable button and you get to the maximum DR amount possible.
The Test version of unstoppable does not automatically get you to the 80% DR hard cap, unless you have the Sentinel capstone feat. You actually need to have a little skill and play with a skilled DC to get to the hard cap of 80%. So the Test version is actually making the DC a useful class to have around and is requiring you to learn to play nice with other classes.
only missed one point: is not that the dc need to protect me, I who must protect a dc.
cw is getting a lot of control buffs , which implies that he is able to defend the dc as gwf ever been (and gf too). So tell me, until the end of the changes, this destroyer glasscannon be doing 2x, 3x more damage than the cw?
I'm seeing so many people in the feedback forum trying to negotiate destroyer nerfs to see if saves iv for pvp ... gwf currently need BUFFS.
if in the name of "synergy", i expect a +20-40% in my dps.
I went into the preview, i am a 16k GWF (8k power, 1300 drain life) glasscanon style:
- on live at Dwarven Valley i can solo 3 packs of trolls at once, fight is tough but i can survive it.
- on test at Dwarven Valley i tried many times 2 packs at once, and i died a few times, and if i survive it's with like no hp remaining.
What is the point playing a high DPS class IF you don't have time to survive, are we bound to kill mobs in few numbers now?
HR & CW are making jokes of this kind of mob packs.
I don't understand inter class synergies, eh? Man, you sure got a lot out of the few words I posted. Assume much?
How bout after reading the patch notes I understood what the changes would mean. Then, I went to the test server and it was exactly as I thought. I would have to have a DC to play in the red the way I like to...but the reduction in unstop is still a hair too much.
You may even be surprised, since you believe everyone is apparently shortsighted, we even made sure to bring a GF. We wanted to see how the changes were workin' and if he could hold the mobs with the new block system since I was planning on kiting around more. Crazy that someone besides you would think about group synergy.
Also, another note..in my guild we make it a point to play nice with other classes. We also ask in LFG for low geared folks with no experience required to join us on runs that the may not be able to get.
Cheers
What guild would that be ?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
My problem with all of this is when trying to tank its near impossible to hold aggro with their rules using the tank builds. Their definition of threat is damage + heals = threat but with that formula decreasing damage on the tank path would actually make your tank build even more useless. Even with the changes to Daring shout putting you on top of the threat list you will lose that threat within a few seconds because of the lack of damage to maintain that level of threat and the huge cool down on that skill.
only missed one point: is not that the dc need to protect me, I who must protect a dc.
cw is getting a lot of control buffs , which implies that he is able to defend the dc as gwf ever been (and gf too). So tell me, until the end of the changes, this destroyer glasscannon be doing 2x, 3x more damage than the cw?
I'm seeing so many people in the feedback forum trying to negotiate destroyer nerfs to see if saves iv for pvp ... gwf currently need BUFFS.
if in the name of "synergy", i expect a +20-40% in my dps.
Depending on your gear score, what you're asking for would place you on top for dps across all classes which should not be the case. A pure dps class (TRs) should be the only class sitting on that throne but they are not. I do agree that having you decrease your current survivability, you would need a slight increase in your dps to compensate. And I do mean slight 5-10%.
Nerfs were necessary. Currently your class and spec is able to face tank everything, only avoiding big hits if necessary. So the destroyer tree (The supposed glass cannon) had too much staying power. No other "glass cannon" could match that. A higher gear score should NOT change that. Every other class who provided high dps needs to play smarter and avoid drawing too much attention. Why shouldn't a gwf? (You can argue that HRs have too much survivability too but that's a whole other problem the devs need to work out on their new baby)
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited June 2014
There is fine line between OP and UP , when you nerf so hard, it destroys the class.. hard to see TRs and HRs coming on here and saying the nerfs were justifiably. Smacks of .. good make one of the primary competitive classes weak, more node holding for ours.
Again.. not the biggest skin off my back, Im not going to buck the system, Ill just roll another class and play it. I just cant seem to find valid argument points for such harsh level of roll backs of function. In the end they will achieve class balance by making every class but the newest one lousy to play, Im here for another year, dont mind the game, will just keep rolling stuff.
Basically you can go dps and die, or not die and have no dps... whoopie dooppie dooo.. no thanks.
Comments
GWF is my favorite class to play in this game.. mostly becuase they made the healer in this game, the lamest healer Ive ever played in any MMO ever, since my playing time during EQ. CW was second.
Im moving on to a HR now it appears, as GWF will be retired after these changes. I think CW will be semi ok for pve/pvp now though. Sux for the people who like it now though.
Instead of making fun viable routes for the rest of the classes, they decided to take the two fun classes and try to make them boring.. yuck.
It is the same on the preview forums under the GWF changes. Everyone who complained have just read the patch notes and immediately picked up their pitchforks at the sight of a reduction. You haven't tested the build on the preview shard. That's what the preview shard was created for. It's for you to test it yourself. Then to top it all off, you post solutions that you "think/ feel" will work that are more or less baseless conjecture. Do yourself and the entire Neverwinter community and go test your beloved GWF on the shard. Once you've tried it out for a few days and adjusted yourself to the changes, then provide feedback as to how it can be tweaked, if necessary. Please.
Worth saying twice.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
That makes no sense. We can recognize a rotten egg, even if we're not bitds. 90% removed, nothing to compensate, what do you need? Now post an apology and try to be more constructive next time.
And more importantly, something that isn't immediately obvious when looking at the current proposed GWF changes, is that IBS can be dodged even if used immediately after a takedown, frontline surge, or roar. The only class not capable of avoiding the damage from IBS is other GWFs, even GFs have time to block.
When you consider that IBS will no longer be relevant in PVP, we are left with only low damage encounters as well as restoring strike, which suffers from the same problems that IBS will. Meaning of the encounters left that make up the usual GWF rotation, one has been reduced by 30%.
The short version is, while the GWF will definitely be toned down in PVE, it will be non-functional in PVP.
On preview HR can go for Remorarz alone atm (time would be a problem, but he survives the fight) and a decent geared GWF dies doing totem of ... . Thats real balance, not.
I couldnt care less what a HR does solo but my 17k IV Destroyer solos everything(that I have tried ) in the Pass on Preview. Totems are cake, Corrupted Wolves are cake, Corrupted Yetis and Bears = cake. Havent tried the worms yet but they owned my GF on Preview.
EDIT - the above is possible thanks to gear, that is it. A GWF of lesser GS will fail some of the things I can solo with the current joke of unstoppable(on preview)..
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
How many adds do you pull?
Why don't you record your cake and show us some proof of the slice?
Otherwise you are just talk and are trying to bash the gwf since u play gf.
IF y have TOP Gear like BI puri version wepon sett too + restoring strike and forget about destroyer y can handle mybe 3 giants but y will not kill it in 5 min .(ofc top enchants
I can tell y i mastered my favored class in pve i can solo any dungeon in live not easy(and if i make 1 mistake i am dead ) but i dont belive i can do it in lesser gear.
So pulling 5-6 brutal bears or 4 giants = dead GWF .I dont belive him only if he show me a vid from prev.
@Asterotg- Most people DO NOT test the changes before they post. I am personally thanking you for the fact that you have and then posted your feedback. But for this thread all who posted before me have not. Re-read the posts. It is filled with "I THINK these changes are (boring/ stupid/ game breaking...)..." or "I FEEL this will be (boring/ stupid/ game breaking...)". They've provided no concrete evidence only conjecture with misguided and displaced angst over losing statistical power from the changes.
@bucklittle - You nor asterogt have posted in this thread prior to me coming in here. So I will keep my stance. If you have tested then please continue to post your results. Everyone else piggy backing and quoting others as if it was their own personal experience is not helping anyone, least of all the developers. Also to your other comment. The preview shard threads on the GWF changes, the first 15 pages are of people who responded minutes or a few hours after the change went up on the shard. They didn't test or didn't give ample testing before they brought righteous fury onto the forums. That isn't helping the developers in the slightest. People need to relax, take a breath.
@vortix44- Your statement is absolutely false. You CANNOT just read a change and expect to know how it plays out with all it's fine tuning. (For example, despite the written change to lower the effectiveness and duration of stealth in PvP, players have found a way to remain in permanent stealth mode by utilizing key skills and ability scores that were not "recommended".)
How am I not being constructive in asking a everyone to go test the changes and then proceed to the preview feedback forums with their findings? How are YOU being constructive here when the developers are not looking for your feedback in this section? How is ANYONE being constructive by making knee-jerk suggestions without proper testing and analysis?
Now this is logic and makes much more sense.
I completely understand where you are coming from as I have tested it myself as well.
Obviously I dont pull all of them at once. One group of corrupted wolves at a time with Roar/Restoring Strike/IBS and that leaves me enough time to finish the HE solo. Use your heads a little, most things can be figured out if you do.
PS: taking some of my precious time to even write here is just enough. To try and prove something to a bunch of strangers by taking even more of my time is not my cup of tea.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Since you are the god mode cake man I believe that it would be very educational to share your skills that you are throwing out here?
Cake you said, enough said...
Try two barbarians instead of one barbarian, maybe?
No, I am right and you are wrong. If your boss tells you Ok from newt month on your paycheck will be 10% of your current paycheck, you don't need to wait one month and actually receive the check to know that it's a huge loss for you. Obvious nerf is obvious, and fine tuning is fine tuning, it's tuning the one percent or half-percent. Unless you can prove otherwise with your charts and figure from the Preview, all the statements of the community stand, and all yours have to get discarded.
Ok some Idea´s from me
Unstoppable dont Need a nerf realy, it only Needs a Little Tuning not changed to 5-10 % its to hard, the most GWF DD´s die realy quik, only that one with the best gear and a lot of Lifedrain will stay i think.
My Idea is Change it for DD´s to 15-20% and delete the damage drain of Unstoppable.
For Tanks to 25-50% with Sentinel endfeat and give them more Temporary Hitpoints around 10% more in Unstoppable.make them more Tanky but still with the damage drain.
Or for ALL without Feats 15-35% and some more temporary Hitpoints, to stay them alive in a see of Mobs in Pve and still a Little nerf to PvP.
Weapenmasters strike doesnt Need more damage! it Needs a quiker Animation, its terrrible slow, without Unstoppable you can drink a Coffee before he hits, a quiker Animation get more Damage and make it worth to use it.
And Steel Blitz Needs realy a higher Chance on Singlehits totaly useless on one Alone or Change it to you get hit and have a Chance to rehit the other like a Parry.
At the End what about Reaping strike it Needs an Edit, at now i press and then it fires up but useless in all Encounters, please overwork it to i press one time then it loads and then it fires up but with a shorter loadtime, it takes to Long so no one want to use it.
Daring Shout, Come and get it, Battle Fury they all Need a Little ground damage, if you use them you loose one Slot for a damage skill.
Ok That some ideas from me
Greetings
Once again, you are looking at it in a vacuum. And once again, you ignored the rest of my post because your own stance was threatened. (Or you are just too lazy or don't want to check things out for yourself.) Which is fine do what you want. Just don't go promoting it to the rest of the community.
So, I am going to standing on my soapbox again. Go test it before you make blind assumptions. Go test because it puts more information in your hands about the situation so you can make better judgments. Go test it so you can get an idea where the developers are trying to take the class. Go test it so the developers will actually 'listen' to your feedback. Go test it because it is free to do so and won't cost you anything except a little time. Go test it because if you ARE right about your initial stance you will have a better base from which to stand on. Just GO TEST IT YOURSELF and stop piggybacking. That's all I've ever promoted.
Unfortunately, while you might know your class, you do not seem to understand inter class synergies and how those impact these changes.
The Unstoppable tuning is a perfect example. The LIVE version of Unstoppable allows almost any GWF to immediately increase their damage resistance to the 80% hard cap. It does not matter how sloppy you play. Hit the Unstoppable button and you get to the maximum DR amount possible.
The Test version of unstoppable does not automatically get you to the 80% DR hard cap, unless you have the Sentinel capstone feat. You actually need to have a little skill and play with a skilled DC to get to the hard cap of 80%. So the Test version is actually making the DC a useful class to have around and is requiring you to learn to play nice with other classes.
I don't understand inter class synergies, eh? Man, you sure got a lot out of the few words I posted. Assume much?
How bout after reading the patch notes I understood what the changes would mean. Then, I went to the test server and it was exactly as I thought. I would have to have a DC to play in the red the way I like to...but the reduction in unstop is still a hair too much.
You may even be surprised, since you believe everyone is apparently shortsighted, we even made sure to bring a GF. We wanted to see how the changes were workin' and if he could hold the mobs with the new block system since I was planning on kiting around more. Crazy that someone besides you would think about group synergy.
Also, another note..in my guild we make it a point to play nice with other classes. We also ask in LFG for low geared folks with no experience required to join us on runs that the may not be able to get.
Cheers
This changes apply only to GWF or for GF also?
only missed one point: is not that the dc need to protect me, I who must protect a dc.
cw is getting a lot of control buffs , which implies that he is able to defend the dc as gwf ever been (and gf too). So tell me, until the end of the changes, this destroyer glasscannon be doing 2x, 3x more damage than the cw?
I'm seeing so many people in the feedback forum trying to negotiate destroyer nerfs to see if saves iv for pvp ... gwf currently need BUFFS.
if in the name of "synergy", i expect a +20-40% in my dps.
GWF only.
GWF link: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8242281&viewfull=1#post8242281
GF link: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=8242231&viewfull=1#post8242231
- on live at Dwarven Valley i can solo 3 packs of trolls at once, fight is tough but i can survive it.
- on test at Dwarven Valley i tried many times 2 packs at once, and i died a few times, and if i survive it's with like no hp remaining.
What is the point playing a high DPS class IF you don't have time to survive, are we bound to kill mobs in few numbers now?
HR & CW are making jokes of this kind of mob packs.
What guild would that be ?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Depending on your gear score, what you're asking for would place you on top for dps across all classes which should not be the case. A pure dps class (TRs) should be the only class sitting on that throne but they are not. I do agree that having you decrease your current survivability, you would need a slight increase in your dps to compensate. And I do mean slight 5-10%.
Nerfs were necessary. Currently your class and spec is able to face tank everything, only avoiding big hits if necessary. So the destroyer tree (The supposed glass cannon) had too much staying power. No other "glass cannon" could match that. A higher gear score should NOT change that. Every other class who provided high dps needs to play smarter and avoid drawing too much attention. Why shouldn't a gwf? (You can argue that HRs have too much survivability too but that's a whole other problem the devs need to work out on their new baby)
Again.. not the biggest skin off my back, Im not going to buck the system, Ill just roll another class and play it. I just cant seem to find valid argument points for such harsh level of roll backs of function. In the end they will achieve class balance by making every class but the newest one lousy to play, Im here for another year, dont mind the game, will just keep rolling stuff.
Basically you can go dps and die, or not die and have no dps... whoopie dooppie dooo.. no thanks.