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Stop nerfing, start buffing :)
markons
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I see that whole idea is to nerf some classes so the other classes "work" better.
I think that those classes "needing" the nerf actually work nice and good,they work and as intended. They don't need nerfs, but other classes need buffing a bit. Like a GF (hardly useful anymore) or a DC ( can't do nothing anymore.look at their feats, lol, they need serious workout, half of them not usefull).
Problem is that PvP in this game has ruined the PvE aspect.
Balance this, balance that, all for sake of PvPing, and that has led the game to have some obsolete classes. Why, you can do almost every dungeon with like 5 GWF's or 5 CW's. I know I did
Anyone taking a GF to dungeon? No, not needed, low damage, CW's can control everything. DC? Yeah if he is a buffer and in a t1 debuff set, otherwise not good, better take the dps class for more damage, we have lifesteal very high with our high damage....
I don't want to flame or anything, but I play this game from beta, and saw all the changes this game went through. This game had better balance in the start then now.
I have the feeling all those PvP whines ruined PvE balance. And not even pvp is balanced, to be worst All you see is GWFs, HR's and perma TR's running around..
You can never balance classes enough for PvP, its why there are different classes. Want balance? Then we all play one class and we can have it
I think that those classes "needing" the nerf actually work nice and good,they work and as intended. They don't need nerfs, but other classes need buffing a bit. Like a GF (hardly useful anymore) or a DC ( can't do nothing anymore.look at their feats, lol, they need serious workout, half of them not usefull).
Problem is that PvP in this game has ruined the PvE aspect.
Balance this, balance that, all for sake of PvPing, and that has led the game to have some obsolete classes. Why, you can do almost every dungeon with like 5 GWF's or 5 CW's. I know I did
Anyone taking a GF to dungeon? No, not needed, low damage, CW's can control everything. DC? Yeah if he is a buffer and in a t1 debuff set, otherwise not good, better take the dps class for more damage, we have lifesteal very high with our high damage....
I don't want to flame or anything, but I play this game from beta, and saw all the changes this game went through. This game had better balance in the start then now.
I have the feeling all those PvP whines ruined PvE balance. And not even pvp is balanced, to be worst
All you see is GWFs, HR's and perma TR's running around..You can never balance classes enough for PvP, its why there are different classes. Want balance? Then we all play one class and we can have it
Post edited by markons on
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At least the other way means that dungeons will be somewhat of a challenge again, even for better geared people.
My two pennies is , this game has such a huge vast difference between top tier, average and lower geared, I mean the biggest Ive ever seen in any MMO. You cant balance it becuase a 19k monster is performing at 150% greater functionality then its 6k newly minted 60.
In other games its more like 20% difference between the two, levels mean something in other games, this one really doesnt as much, considering how easy it was to roll to 60 in this game, not sure why they bother having a pre 60 quest path at times.
So its easier to balance 20% performance differences with tweaks.. not so easy when someone at 12k hits for 12000 ibs hit and someone at 19k is hitting on average at 24k or more.. thats a huge difference in dps. How do you balance that? You cant. So someone in the 10k range getting one hit is crying how crappy X class is ect.
In pve, I would just remove the X screen, problem solved, you then focus on if you 1. got through the DD and 2, how a individual helped accomplish that.. woot.
They're a cakewalk because the existing dungeons are 8.5k GS entry(and can be completed with a little effort at that GS) or just marginally higher for the new content while you have people running around with 17-18-19-20k GS monsters with nothing else to do except dungeons which by their very description they massively outgear.
A basic T2 dungeon shouldn't be a challenge for people with all BiS, they shouldn't even have to run those dungeons, but there's been no new and challenging content for them to do.
Back in open beta and earlier mod 1 when I was in rank 5-7s, no artifact and T1 and maybe T2 GG gear, just fitting the entry requirements for these dungeons, they were great fun, I had to work and cooperate with my team, make the best use of what we had etc.
Now with the multiple characters in stupidly high level gear(my PvE CW has 10.3k power and HV and I barely sacrifice anything to get that) of course the dungeons are a cakewalk. I'm over 2-3 times more powerful than I was back then. Not only that, so are the vast majority of the the people I play with, but we have no content to challenge ourselves with (unless you feel like doing a solo Epic ToS or duo Dracolich, etc).
If they really want to make dungeons harder, why not do that instead, Mod5:
Have progressive content:
Cloak Tower X 1.5 x 2.5 x 5 (For example)
Make the game stop dropping Purple gear and just drop AD with the same parameters 1.5x the AD salvage rate, 1.5, 2.5, 5x. Raise the GS to enter said dungeon the same level higher.
Bump the mobs HP/damage and all aspects of the dungeon by 1.5/2.5/5x times current levels.
Now add this change in with the class balancing. You now have a game that is harder and harder to do the same content. You dont have to NERF everyone. You increase the dungeons. Still making it hard to do on High level 17k+ GS characters, and you still have repeat playability of all current content.
Give some AD, toss out a nice title for completing the new event and call it good.
All we can do now is hope that, for balance's sake, they make the right changes.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
ALL TRUE!
Dungeons are easy, we are overgeared. New players coming into game have a blast of fun in them, making some tactics, pushing adds from cliffs....stuff we all did in the early days
Dungeons are becoming more tough with each new module, so its not an issue.
I'm talking about not messing with fine tuned classes. And yes I think GWF is fine tuned. He works as intended. CW also. Rest of classes needs some stuff changed a bit, like a more damage for GF, some feats on DC changed, but not much... I think if they up the damage on GF, he will be more desired class in raids/dungeons, and had a bit faster time on dailies too. That can easily be done by just adding some more damage in their powers. Some solutions are obvious, others are not so.
That is precisely WHY the nerf route is doomed to fail... and repeatedly. And has been a complete failure for almost a year now.
Its because they keep breaking class synergies in the name of "balance" thinking they're "fixing" it, when in reality they just keep making an even bigger mess. Your class is one of those who has felt this failure...
So instead of looking at the classes that are working well togather and in those dungeons and shoes.... and nerfing them because of someone else's jealousy...
They need to seek to understand why that dynamic works... because once you have that dynamic... you now have a base dynamic to work with. It may not be the one you wanted... but its a start...
..... you build the other components (classes) in around it.... until you finally have your full group dynamic... once you've achieved that group dynamic, then you can begin to structure your challenges around that dynamic.
But nerfing every dynamic that shows up and calling it "overpowered" and crushing it means you never get that stable base in the first place.... just leads to more and more failures, as you keep breaking the things that are working... instead of finding a way of adding the other components that have nothing to bring.
Its been a year now, this nerfing tactic has been a repeated failure. I think we've all given this more than enough time to workl... and in the end accomplished nothing but more whining.
The day this is finally understood... is the day you will finally be welcomed in a group again Riewuf... because they'll finally find a way to build your class into the base dynamic of what is... rather than what they "wish" it would be....
<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Mega <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Dreamy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
QQ <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
QQ moar plz.
Again, the faulty assumption that nerfs are unnecessary and everything's all fine and dandy, and then the preposterous accusation that some point either someone whined too much or the developers are breaking everything on purpose.
Don't you ever get tired of your long-winded intent to disguise a simple PvE QQ "OH FRIGGIN' NOEZ THEM PVPER WHINE AND BROKE MY MEGACOOL PVE POWER!" ?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
■ If balance is world peace, an OP class/power/mechanic is akin to a certain rogue country suddenly starting to build nukes.
■ The solution of "then buff others as well" obviously results in a Cold War arms race where everybody is now armed the wazoo, and then get so scared of how powerful they've all became that they don't ever do anything again. A boring, stupid stalemate.
■ Why do some people insist on "buff others as well"? Because those people are mostly PvE dudes, and in their fantasy world, everybody builds up nukes and fires it at outerspace aliens, so Earth is safe, nobody complains, and nobody cares if things are "unbalanced" or not.
■ In contrast, people living in the PvP world are much more realistic and sensitive in just what the effects of nukes are like, and properly respect its power and hence approach it with care -- how can they not be? When these people build up nukers, they fire it at each other, not at some outerspace alien dummies. In this world, the better general solution is to simply discourage the rogue state and de-arm their nukes. This could cause some messy ups and downs in the region for sure, but that's a heckuva lot better than having the entire region building up nukes.
When you have a nail sticking out of the house, you hammer it back in. You don't pull all other nails out at the same degree, and risk having the house collapse. That's why every balancing begins with a "nerf the OP", not "buff everything to same OPness".
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Just a couple of months ago, we had post after post about how hard dungeons were without T2 sets. Then artifacts came out.
Lower geared groups need heals and aggro controllers. It's only mostly groups with very high GS are stacking CWs and GWFs. They have nothing else to do in the game except farm dungeons for AD. Give them something to challenge them. Sharandar and Dread Ring came with just one dungeon each. IWD has none. ToD comes with such huge nerfs, many people aren't looking forward to it at all.
Challenge the OP, don't screw the newer or more casual players.
Players didn't change the rules (ok there are some exploiters in every game) when content was hard, they used their heads and the tools the game gave them to make it easier. The Devs need to do the same. Use your heads and design content that encourages the addition of classes without AoE DPS into groups. Other games have done. So can NW.
The newest nerfs are on CWs. Anyone who is crying about CWs being OP in PvP is nuts.
If it wasn't, then we wouldn't need Tenacity and skills would work the same in PVE and PVP. The devs finally started to differentiate a bit so hopefully the PVE and PVP community will be able to influence how a given skill should work in their respective environment even more going forward.
Also, to use kweassa's analogy, a good bunch of PVP players are trying to disarm the rogue state while lobbying for their own nuke at the same time. Every comment by a PVP player has to be taken with a grain of salt, because in the end some if not most don't want balance, they just want to win more games than the rest.
That makes the entire assumption this is a PvP based game..
Here's a hint...
(pssst... its not designed for it.... that's why you keep failing over and over to balance PvP... and are in the same shoes after a year... it won't work.. and never will... was never designed for it. The Classes powers are designed for group based PvE... the mobs have millions of health players have only 25k.)
Which is and has been repeatedly the worst possible way to deal with all of this stuff and has proven itself time and time again. Because of people like you... Cryptic has been destroying and destroying, and never creating.
That is precisely WHY the nerf route is doomed to fail... and repeatedly. And has been a complete failure for almost a year now. Its because they keep breaking class synergies in the name of "balance" thinking they're "fixing" it, when in reality they just keep making an even bigger mess.
So instead of looking at the classes that are working well togather and in those dungeons and shoes.... and nerfing them because of someone else's jealousy... They need to seek to understand why that dynamic works... because once you have that dynamic... you now have a base to work with. It may not be the one you wanted... but its a start...
..... you build the other components (classes) in around it.... until you finally have your full group dynamic... once you've achieved that group dynamic, then you can begin to structure your challenges around that dynamic.
But nerfing every dynamic that shows up and calling it "overpowered" and crushing it means you never get that stable base in the first place.... just leads to more and more failures, as you keep breaking the things that are working... instead of finding a way of adding the other components that have nothing to bring.
Its been a year now, this nerfing tactic has been a repeated failure. I think we've all given this more than enough time to workl... and in the end accomplished nothing but more whining.
Maybe that's because most of the dungeons were (kind of badly) designed for 8300-9200 minimum gs and now people have 50-100% that, so it shouldn't be shocking that content is easy. Artifacts gave us a lot more gs. Without that extra gs, things wouldn't be such a breeze. Funnily enough the nerfs only make it harder for those at the right gs level have a harder time. ToS still has ridiculous healing on the last boss and I doubt the majority of pugs at the right gs can clear it when they can clear the other t2s or even the rest of the dungeon just fine. There does however need replacements for the high end. Decent new armours with higher end dungeons we want to replay and not stuck doing cn, cn and cn.
However there are some issues, I'd like to see dc's healing slightly increased though they do fine as a debuffer, perma stealth to be impossible but rogues buffed elsewhere to compensate so they're wanted on the team, gfs need to have something to contribute to the team be it some more damage or support, hrs can be insanely tanky which is ridiculous in pvp which needs to change, gwf are clearly over the top, but the upcoming changes appear to be too much. I feel their damage is decent if they were to stay as a damage dealer, but they are way too tanky on top of that with way too much pvp control, 5-10% damage resist is almost pointless though as it is so far on preview. As for cws, they obliterate mobs, which is nice for me, it's my main and even in the skirmish event so many pugs are just horrible and it's nice that I can be good and carry everyone and they don't let me down too much but it is too much. I feel they're already underpowered in pvp though and that massive nerfs coming will make them even worse especially when top players relied on shard for damage.
tl;dr: Nerfs are needed for over the top things but buffs are needed elsewhere for the underpowered things.
I like this idea. Lots of active people are just overgeared for existing content and are really not interested in alts. Adding a 'tier 3' or 'legendary' versions of dungeons could keep people busy. Rewards could be AD or gold instead of adding unintended new gear. Or titles, that doesnt break balance. Or vanity costumes, that doesnt break anything. Or maybe a limited amount of trade bars per day.
Who knows? Maybe if they ever raise level cap?
One is probably more PR-friendly I guess
It's a farmer's wet dream. The sort of people who don't really care about the game, and just want max efficiency in farming so they can grind for loot faster, and get more money.
It's also the munchkin's wet dream as well. Certain types of PvE players who so much enjoy the feel of invincibility in cakewalks and milkruns, that they never see any balance issues, nor do they even care about it. All they want is their classes to feel like demi-gods, or an Incredible Hulk™ taking a stroll in a china shop.
So to them, a power that hits much too hard as any other classes isn't really a problem. Even if some class feels like a divine avatar of some god on a mortal plane -- while the rest of the party feels like the heroes in a tutorial campaign, that still does not matter. All the munchkin cares is how powerful his own class is. Ofcourse, when a balance/nerf happens, these are also the first to come to the boards and start a page-long rant about how PvPers have screwed him over, when in fact, the class was so obviously OP that they had it coming.
ay caramba. :rolleyes:
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Sounds about right, I admit, but it also works both ways. The PvPers ALSO feel like demi-gods, when running their roflstomp parties, and the second those get hurt, theyre ALSO running to the forums.
I mean, look at how many PvPers also QQed when tenacity pvp came up... The QQing was nonstop(people are STILL whining about tenacity, are they not?).
And yeah, nerfing is maybe useful for some classes, but destroy almost 1 to 2 classes back to the stoneage is completely dumb. Because of that, new and old people will leave this game, because they dedicated into 1 or 2 classes that they like, who gets a big nerf. Me for example, Im not leaving, because I love this game and I want my CW for example to be the best, even when I have to maybe change everything I have done and have to be back up there I am now.
So instead of all the nerfing, get dungeons that need every class to be done, so maybe even more people will come back and will enjoy the game again.
Sorry for the bad English. English is not my strongest side.
I also agree that some of the changes they are making are because of PvP and not PvE. I have always hated how PvP has ruined or tampered with my PvE playing experience in past MMO's. If they are nerfing or changing something because of PvP then what they should do is add secondary affects to abilities. Basically make the abilities have certain strengths and affects when not flagged for PvP and other affects and strengths when flagged for PvP or even when used on a player. Then the can balance to their hearts content for PvP without affecting the PvE crowd and game.
I've been listening to your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for a year now.
Same stuff over and over again... Just some new nerf you want that screws everyone else over, hosed up the PvP OR PvE game even more... fixes nothing... Yet you are still here feeding me the same line over and over again...
And next year... when you have the same problems again... over and over...
You'll probably feed me the same line again...
You are a failure... and have been over and over again now... for a year.
This nerfaholic <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is just and endless useless cycle that solved nothing...
Like... seals?
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
(and thanks I forgot the word for them XD)
Jumbling/nerfing the most popular/played classes skills every Mod is just dumb. For every person that complains on the forums there are thousands that will just quietly leave the game. Considering they are trying to get you to "Invest" in your character, meaning money, then changing the mechanics of the class every few weeks is a pisspoor business model.
The dungeons are challenging if played at the proper time (GS) but none of them are interesting, dynamic, strategic or anything anyone wants to run more than once or twice. People run them in 30min but wont spend 2-3 hours they are not worth it.
I believe this game is just limping along. 1 server mostly farmers, profession bots and bank slots but very few paying customers. I really dont think they can afford to frustrate and drive away anyone. So I would say buff classes not nerf them.
How does a game have the DnD license and be struggling. 1 server is a fail they are obviously doing something wrong. Just create the iconic DnD enounters, locations, NPCs, mobs, classes and items and you have a built in multi million person fan base. You make mod3 the never ending black ice farm, whoever came up with that should be shown the door or at least sent back to the marketing room. How have you not made Ravenloft, Temple of elemental evil, Lolth the spider queen or any of the hundreds of other "Modules"? People love when you create some iconic item like gelatinous cube or tensors disc so why not stick to doing what is successful.
It's a MMORPG, there is not such a thing as "working as intented". You feel comfortable and strong with your toon only for how you perform relatively to content and other players. They can make dungeon harder or make you weaker. Or in pvp buff every other class or, again, make you weaker. It won't change a thing: you won't be as satisfied as you are now.
But a fact remains: they can't follow the route of buffing everybody else. If everyone went around dishing out the damage, controlling everything or surviving everything as gwf and cw do now, content would become menial and BORING.
They can't do that just because some of you like to see big numbers on screen. But this number means nothing: in other games 1000 of damage can one shot a player. They are relative to the environment in which they are applied.
Sorry for my poor english.