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GWF - Updated Mod 4 Changes

kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
edited August 2014 in The Militia Barracks
From Gentleman Crush:

Hey guys, we have taken a look at Iron Vanguard and Swordmaster and we wanted to make some changes to bring them more in line with their intended use. First, we are tuning back Iron Vanguard damage on Great Weapon Fighters so that it will line up with Guardian Fighter damage from the same powers. This allows the powers to be more focused on their utility and intent than on their damage, which didn't properly account for the difference in weapon damage when they were ported over. Second, we are improving Weapon Master's Strike and Flourish on both Guardian and Great Weapon Fighters to make them more attractive as damage options. Below are the changes for Great Weapon Fighters (to see the Guardian ones, check out their thread).

Great Weapon Fighter: Threatening Rush: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Frontline Surge: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Weaponmaster's Strike: This power now deals ~10% more damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Flourish: This power now deals ~15% more damage and stuns for 3 seconds (2 seconds on players).


We are continuing to look at the various changes and so far we are fairly happy with the choice to diversify the damage resistance into a tank bonus, but we want to get continued feedback on that from dungeon runs and PVP so we can better tune where it belongs.

Thank you all for your continued feedback!

Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer


Looks Destroyer is going to be Swordmaster path, and the Sentinel Iron Vanguard path damage got reduced again...

Huzzah Iron Vanguard will easily be the less used path... *shrugs*

Oh well, adapt or die I suppose. I choose adaptation. :cool:
va8Ru.gif
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • ripyourlipsoffripyourlipsoff Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    It looks like the want you to choose Tank path or DPS path.
    Shieldbash 60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard 19.0k
    Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
    ==========================================


    ~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
  • kolevrakolevra Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Its a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them...
    --- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
    Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    It looks like the want you to choose Tank path or DPS path.
    The downing of damage for the Sentinel path is a bit harsh IMO, as they were already low damage in mod 3 post-Deep Gash. Worst case scenario you'll just see Swordmaster Sentinel's, however losing Threatening Rush's Marking ability may be too much give up...

    Either way, have fun playing in your GF threads and allow the GWFs to discuss amongst ourselves! :cool:
    va8Ru.gif
  • adsfelipeadsfelipe Member Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    HR will be gods now..

    but CW nerf is even worst.. hahaha they like nothing now.. in pvp
  • kolevrakolevra Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Blind predictions:

    Destroyer remains a solid Paingiver in PvE but will have no chance of speccing for competitive PvP.

    Sentinel will be decent for PvP, very gear-dependent, not as good as HR/TR, probably even with CW but would lose to a smart one, probably even with GFs. Sentinel PvE will be just worthless.

    At least the bandwagons and the nerf threads will go away...
    --- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
    Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    maybe possible to tank as sentinel in pve, using threatening and daring shout. But I'd imagine even with the taunting marks they will struggle with agro with the low damage.

    We will have to wait and see, and how needed tanks will be in the future.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    'We are continuing to look at the various changes and so far we are fairly happy with the choice to diversify the damage resistance into a tank bonus"

    ai, ai, ai my good god... MY GOOD GOD.MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD GOD!!!!!!!! if iv goes to space, then let the unstoppable alone. no nerfs, no substitutions. No additions.


    Changes in the swordmaster are meh.

    I want to wms for damage BONUS. "accumulation of functions" in the same power is bad. and I wanted to see a real buff in steel blitz. maybe wms/bf give a bonus to this.


    Flourish change seems a "mea culpa" because of the takedown.
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Hey guys, we looked into some survivability options for Great Weapon Fighters and we felt Sprint was pretty lacking at the moment in comparison to other shift mechanics as far as allowing you to respond to danger so we are also making the following change.

    Great Weapon Fighter: Sprint: Sprint now grants 30% more damage resistance while active and makes you Immune to CC while sprinting.


    Thank you all for your continued feedback!

    Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
    Now this is interesting to say the least... I'll test the hell out of this, and may make taking the Sprinting Feats something worth considering! :)
    va8Ru.gif
  • kolevrakolevra Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    "Great Weapon Fighter: Sprint: Sprint now grants 30% more damage resistance while active and makes you Immune to CC while sprinting."

    I like this idea for a number of reasons. This should really help GWFs make sense of the proposed change to Unstoppable. It might even open up some doors for some Instigator play. Interesting indeed...

    Having said that, it still seems like a lot of dials to turn at once. On top of several powers/feats being changed drastically, we're now also looking at re-works of both of our core class mechanics.

    GWF is going under the knife, can't say I'm not excited.
    --- Ranked matches need to be solo-queue only
    Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
  • query523query523 Member Posts: 1,515 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    The downing of damage for the Sentinel path is a bit harsh IMO, as they were already low damage in mod 3 post-Deep Gash. Worst case scenario you'll just see Swordmaster Sentinel's, however losing Threatening Rush's Marking ability may be too much give up...

    Either way, have fun playing in your GF threads and allow the GWFs to discuss amongst ourselves! :cool:

    you do realize that this 'nerf' brings FLS and TR down to the level of damage it does when you have the base weapon damage of *ahem* the class it was designed for in the first place! Nerf, pffft.
  • johorojohoro Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0
    edited June 2014
    Hi Kolat.If you had any countermeasure,tuning some stat for better survivability.Please help us :)
    Mod 3 Destroyer tree got buffed in DPS a lot so this is the compensation we paid :(
  • rezielereziele Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 66
    edited June 2014
    The downing of damage for the Sentinel path is a bit harsh IMO, as they were already low damage in mod 3 post-Deep Gash. Worst case scenario you'll just see Swordmaster Sentinel's, however losing Threatening Rush's Marking ability may be too much give up...

    Either way, have fun playing in your GF threads and allow the GWFs to discuss amongst ourselves! :cool:
    So IV is going to be useless now? And with the rediculous senti damage nerf up to a point that you're basically just scratching the bosses, who would want them in the team? Survivability is one thing but decent DPS is the need in every group.
    I'm losing hope of ever properly finishing CN VT or MC..
    ~We need more PvP types. Tired of Dominations!~
  • slushpsychoslushpsycho Member Posts: 657 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2014
    Did I just see more nerf to GWF?

    GG GWF gonna be so bad without prone and dmg. THIS BETTER NOT GO ON LIVE. Unless they want everyone play TR and HR.
  • iaccidentally47iaccidentally47 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    So, what I don't understand is why the fighter with a massive two handed weapon is supposed to hit for the same as the fighter with a sword and shield, even with the same skill. That change just doesn't make sense. Yes, GWF versions hit significantly harder, mainly because GWF has higher base weapon damage and usually higher crit severity, and GWF stacks more power in general. If you do that math, it makes sense. Then again, the animation on Frontline Surge and Threatening Rush suggest the presence of a shield, which obviously GWF does not have. Trying to balance the GWF and GF versions of the shared skills makes no sense mathematically or logically. Either give us our own unique paragons (even though in pnp both fighters have access to both), or take these changes back to the drawing board. I fully understand the purpose behind them, but it is going about it in the wrong way.
    Miss Anthropy - 15.7k CW | Miss Andrist - 19k GWF | DC (14.5k) | TR (14.5k) | HR(14k) | GF(15.5k)
    Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
    You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
    GWF guide: click me
  • jerewel88jerewel88 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 38
    edited June 2014
    The GWF will be good only to be the punch bag, because those few GWF who will play this class USELESS, they will all sentinel
  • ripyourlipsoffripyourlipsoff Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    WOW! this is pretty powerful!!!!!


    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/devtracker.php

    Hey guys, we looked into some survivability options for Great Weapon Fighters and we felt Sprint was pretty lacking at the moment in comparison to other shift mechanics as far as allowing you to respond to danger so we are also making the following change.

    Great Weapon Fighter: Sprint: Sprint now grants 30% more damage resistance while active and makes you Immune to CC while sprinting.


    Thank you all for your continued feedback!

    Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer


    Thats means GWf will have 2 cc immunities.... WOW!
    Shieldbash 60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard 19.0k
    Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
    ==========================================


    ~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
  • pindaoppindaop Member Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    with all stamina feats gwf can sprint for quite a long time.
    combined with that 3 sec flourish(that probably interupts everything even itc) stun destroyer might be a fun setup to play.
    some old school flourish takedown battle strike.
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    That sprint + sentinel and the reduction in prones. GWF should never die in pvp. a 2second flourish stun is quite along time in pvp considering the other CC's time even after tenacy/racial calculations.

    I think in pve it will be enough to stay alive, using twitch mini sprints during reds.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    query523 wrote: »
    Nerf, pffft.
    It is a Nerf...

    Nerf: In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change.

    If you can't/won't realize that, no skin off my back bud... It's all good in the hood!

    Also, special note, a giant two-hand sword should do more damage then a single handed blade. Hence the different styles of fighting with a Longsword versus a Scottish Claymore, or a Katana versus a No-Dachi. Some cause more mayhem then others, it's obvious. At least to me... ;)
    va8Ru.gif
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    grimah wrote: »
    That sprint + sentinel and the reduction in prones. GWF should never die in pvp. a 2second flourish stun is quite along time in pvp considering the other CC's time even after tenacy/racial calculations.

    I think in pve it will be enough to stay alive, using twitch mini sprints during reds.
    Spot on analysis right here.
    va8Ru.gif
  • kolatmasterkolatmaster Member Posts: 3,111 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    johoro wrote: »
    Hi Kolat.If you had any countermeasure,tuning some stat for better survivability.Please help us :)
    Mod 3 Destroyer tree got buffed in DPS a lot so this is the compensation we paid :(
    It's going to be ok bud, with the current proposed changes Iron Vanguard will be lower DPS for all paths versus Swordmaster, but we'll just adapt. Already working on things... :)
    va8Ru.gif
  • alexandrearrudaalexandrearruda Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Let's think... i'm working in your old build kola and i'm changing it to feel a better result. I'm still iron vanguard yet but instead Student of sword i'm using disciple of war. I don't know the calculation of that, if AP is 2000 and recovery is 1000 that my bonus at Power will be 25% of 3000? Something like 750 and that's really good i think.

    I'm interested about the set's and weapon bonus with critical, so i'm using destro 2parts and senti 2 parts, with Castle champion+knot (463+463+450 critical), we lose deflection and defense but dps changes a lot. I'm not interested in 1vs1, i think if we can approximate some numbers we can a better job in PVP (power, critical and AP).
  • query523query523 Member Posts: 1,515 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    It is a Nerf...

    Nerf: In video gaming, a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element. The term is also used as a verb for the act of making such a change.

    If you can't/won't realize that, no skin off my back bud... It's all good in the hood!

    Also, special note, a giant two-hand sword should do more damage then a single handed blade. Hence the different styles of fighting with a Longsword versus a Scottish Claymore, or a Katana versus a No-Dachi. Some cause more mayhem then others, it's obvious. At least to me... ;)

    Naturally it should. But we are discussing a game and game ballance. If a power was designed to give a certain damage based off of one quantity and is applied, unmodified, to a base that is 150% of the origonal quantity it becomes unballanced. The devs made a mistake when they cut-pasted the trees from the fighter classes onto each other (case in point why would you ever build a swordmaster GF? Few GWFs even use it any more.) It was a bad design move. Not to mention taking an at-will closer that is necissary on the slowest class in the game and applying it to one with sprint. If they gave HRs GWF weapon damage it would be unballanced because of the ratios on their abilities.
  • fr3akout3fr3akout3 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 72
    edited June 2014
    WOW! this is pretty powerful!!!!!


    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/devtracker.php

    Hey guys, we looked into some survivability options for Great Weapon Fighters and we felt Sprint was pretty lacking at the moment in comparison to other shift mechanics as far as allowing you to respond to danger so we are also making the following change.

    Great Weapon Fighter: Sprint: Sprint now grants 30% more damage resistance while active and makes you Immune to CC while sprinting.


    Thank you all for your continued feedback!

    Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer


    Thats means GWf will have 2 cc immunities.... WOW!

    Why don't you stick to your GF posts. All you do is bash the GWF in any way possible.

    You need to relax a little bit and let the GWF discuss their class.
  • alexandrearrudaalexandrearruda Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Now looking the new features we are going to loss very important things but we are supposed to earn others... It's time to adapt our GWF's... Threatening Rush with recharges is the end... if it was an encounter alright, but an at will power, my god.

    My sense says: Too much changes is not good. In my conception (in RPG):

    GWF = Best damage, high hp but lower defense
    GF = Medium damage, Medium HP, High defense
    Mages = Controllers, high damage, worst defense (if you are a controller that means -- stay away from me!!)
    HR = Dexterity (hard to hit but they are not supposed to have good damage)
    TR = The Trickster...
    DC's = The helpers (why have good damage?)

    That make any senses for you?
  • lewel555lewel555 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    The way the devs see it, it is more
    GWF = "no hp, no mitigation" or "no damage"
    A choice between two unplayable versions is not a choice.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I totally put a bug into the devs room and recorded thier conversations..

    Dev 1 "Lets rip up the paths, nerf all of their damage, destroy the gap closers, that will make the whining stop"
    Dev 2" Question, that will make that class pretty unplayable, will it not?"
    Boss of Devs "Who cares, they had thier day, make them pay to gear up a different class"
    Dev 3" But, I designed them, it was a masterpiece of work, we going to give them at least a respec token right"
    Boss of Devs " Ha, HA, HAAAAA, HA... good one, next issue, how to rip the CWs paths down to nothing, we will make them pay for a respec token as well.. Not enough played that MoF line anyways.. every CW will now have to be MoF oppressor or quit playing"

    sigh.. I removed all names to avoid issues
  • reddevilbsreddevilbs Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Now looking the new features we are going to loss very important things but we are supposed to earn others... It's time to adapt our GWF's... Threatening Rush with recharges is the end... if it was an encounter alright, but an at will power, my god.

    My sense says: Too much changes is not good. In my conception (in RPG):

    GWF = Best damage, high hp but lower defense
    GF = Medium damage, Medium HP, High defense
    Mages = Controllers, high damage, worst defense (if you are a controller that means -- stay away from me!!)
    HR = Dexterity (hard to hit but they are not supposed to have good damage)
    TR = The Trickster...
    DC's = The helpers (why have good damage?)

    That make any senses for you?

    This makes sense to me

    GWF = Best damage, high hp but lower defense. High dmg, medium HP, medium defense/ or medium dmg, medium HP, high defense
    GF = Medium damage, Medium HP, High defense Below medium damage + party buff, High HP, High defense/ or High dmg, medium HP, medium defense
    Mages = Controllers, high damage, worst defense (if you are a controller that means -- stay away from me!!) If controller: medium damage + enemies debuff, medium defense, low HP/ If dps: Best dmg - due to AoE, low HP, low defense
    HR = Dexterity (hard to hit but they are not supposed to have good damage) High dmg, low defense, low HP and low threat generation
    TR = The Trickster... medium single target dmg + DoT+ enemies debuff, low HP, low defense/ or high single target dmg + DoT, low defense, low HP
    DC's = The helpers (why have good damage?) - I like dwarf DC!!!
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    My one caveat, every class needs enough mechanics to do dailies in a non tedious manner, right now the DC is really boring to use open world in IWD.. really boring.
  • lucifron44lucifron44 Member Posts: 417 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    silverkelt wrote: »
    My one caveat, every class needs enough mechanics to do dailies in a non tedious manner, right now the DC is really boring to use open world in IWD.. really boring.

    Mod4 gwf will be a ton more boring.

    Gwf goes into Sharandar minidungeon. Here comes a group of one semi-elite and four trash mobs.

    Sent version: after one hour of fight, the gwf uses IS daily and removes 10% hp off the redcap trash mob. Good, he thinks, let's save the game, by the end of the week I will have completed this fight"
    Destr version: After many wipes, the gwf decides to focus all his attacks at one and the same trash mob and kills it just before getting overnumbered by the three remaining trash mobs and the semi elite. Thanks to his unstoppable he survived 3% longer. Also his 93 sprints helped him a lot to disengage, even if it's not efficient really in the small rooms of a dungeon, whose foes can almost always use ranged attacks, or teleports, or charges.
    Russian leaderboard first page. The proof.
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