lucidproph3cyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
To the OP. I have never encountered a perma TR that I couldn't crush their face in on my sent IV GWF. I usually let them hit me with their bile laugh a sinister laugh and say "that tickles" then I crush their face. Sure their invisible but people are predictable also my deep gash and plague fire says you won't stay in stealth very long. Most of the time they may get me to 3/4 and my regen then negates the damage they do. Yes they may get me with a shocking from time to time but wait!! I have soul forge so I stand up and pop my potion and artifact and good luck killing me again. The smart ones run and hide which they will get away unless I have my daily.
Do I think perma is broken. Yes I do
Do I think an IV Sent gear is equally broken? Yes I do
Do I think they dev's will ever fix anything and balance the game? No I don't
One person and one person only should try and combat at it, and as others have said, if it takes a while to kill it then it is best to sacrifice your home node and take the other two.
From what I've see (I don't have a TR), HRs, TRs and GWFs are the best at combating a TR.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I think the best counter to a perma is to mount up and ride around the point in a random pattern changing directions quickly. He will become visible when you are close and facing him and if you are mounted he won't be fast enough to stay behind you.
love love it!
How to post images remove spaces I added [shouldbelikethis] vs [ not like this ]
[ img ] typeurlhere [ /img ]
You see a perma you call a perma or HR to counter it.
But given the fact that people in PVP are really not smart in general, if you are pugging and enemy have a good perma then best way to deal with him is to send someone keep suicide to him while you guys try to clear the other points before the perma clear yours.
But just saying Perma carry games in pug games way too hard. It is so easy to make their entire team to come camp you, and then all you need to do is dance around the pillar... while you enjoy free points from the rest 2 nodes...
I agree that people shouldn't do this, but let me play the Devils advocate:
You get killed at 2, and know you can't take it back right way, probably because your team is all CWs and HRs who won't fight on point. That leaves your home or theirs. You pop up at the camp fire and see that someone is on your base. You don't know whats happening there, except that the point is contested, and it's the closest thing to you and only slight detour to their home. It's only natural go check it out. You see a 1 on 1 so you figure it should be easy to overwhelm whomever your team mate is fighting if it's 2 on 1.
You should definitely try to kill him with multiple people as fast and as brutal as possible, hopefully discouraging him from coming back. Ideally it will be such a horrific massacre that the player will uninstall the game and there will be one less perma-rogue to deal with.
But like I said in the OP, if you can't kill him quickly with multiple people, then you need to apply this strategy.
Just say, "Only 1 play with the rogue and waste time at our point".
I see this happening more and more in pug PvP. Good TRs trolling home base the Whole match, and newbie pug teams going en masse to the point, being trolled even more. I have to scream in team chat to please go mid/ enemy base and leave me alone there.
Also, lately, after last patch, i'm experiencing a ton of rubberbanding and lag issues, which makes almost impossible to catch a perma TR. Anyone else is experiencing this bad lag after last update, or is it just me?
However, i see not-so-many players complaining about permas. They tend to complain about GWFs more, even if perma TRs are, right now, as point-trolling as old sentinels were.
I see this happening more and more in pug PvP. Good TRs trolling home base the Whole match, and newbie pug teams going en masse to the point, being trolled even more. I have to scream in team chat to please go mid/ enemy base and leave me alone there.
Also, lately, after last patch, i'm experiencing a ton of rubberbanding and lag issues, which makes almost impossible to catch a perma TR. Anyone else is experiencing this bad lag after last update, or is it just me?
However, i see not-so-many players complaining about permas. They tend to complain about GWFs more, even if perma TRs are, right now, as point-trolling as old sentinels were.
I have been having issues with rubberbanding and bad lag after this last patch also.
I have been having issues with rubberbanding and bad lag after this last patch also.
I was having really bad trouble with it last week. I ended up downloading ping programs and trying to turn off extra windows services and anything I can think of. I actually had a service appointment scheduled with comcast to check on my connection.
Before that happened though I just stumbled upon an idea somewhere of turning all windows services ON. I tried that and viola everything is back to normal.
Can't tell if that was really the fix or other things I did (like install all windows updates, upgrade netframework, etc).
At least in my case it was not on their end although it did start around the time of the last patch.
I was having really bad trouble with it last week. I ended up downloading ping programs and trying to turn off extra windows services and anything I can think of. I actually had a service appointment scheduled with comcast to check on my connection.
Before that happened though I just stumbled upon an idea somewhere of turning all windows services ON. I tried that and viola everything is back to normal.
Can't tell if that was really the fix or other things I did (like install all windows updates, upgrade netframework, etc).
At least in my case it was not on their end although it did start around the time of the last patch.
Not having teamspeak on seems to help with lag, but ts being the go-to communication tool in pvp...it sucks to have it turned off. Will keep trying different things.
Not having teamspeak on seems to help with lag, but ts being the go-to communication tool in pvp...it sucks to have it turned off. Will keep trying different things.
Why not just use the built in game chat? I don't chat but it seems to be a really nice feature of the game, although for me it's usually people laughing and goofing off in some other language.
People need to read this post- TRs still fooling my fellow puggers all day long.
With some pugs it won't matter who you send to base they will all die pretty quickly. If the opponent pugs are equally as weak I can accomplish the same thing at their base until they give up capping it. Then I start alternating middle and opponents base. It all depends on whether your team keep contending and how long they last contending.
People need to read this post- TRs still fooling my fellow puggers all day long.
You cannot put pugs against any half-decent backcappers.
Yesterday I played a few solo games on my perma, had a 2-man pre against me from a PvP guild. 80% or so of the game I was against 3 people that could not bring me to below 50% HP once. The 2 guys I already had on my friends list, they tried telling the pugs to leave so one of them could contest with me, but pugs wanted to kill me so bad, they cam each time from spawn, all, directly to me. So they had to go the other nodes 2vs4 while I was keeping in check 1vs3 people, cause there was no communication with the pugs.
Talked after the game and they copy/pasted for me what the pugs said. There was an avalanche of insults from the pugs towards the PvPers that tried to make them play the game properly, including threats and stuff. I also got tells of course, including "Dumb perma loser", "no skills TR", "n**b perma", and also "I wish you die" You can bet that during the time they were busy typing I was busy DFing them to death.
My conclusion?
Cannot educate pugs. They need new brains, a transplant of sorts.
Cannot educate pugs. They need new brains, a transplant of sorts.
You pick to play a perma tr in about the only pvp game where you can stay inivis and fight and then troll pugs with no chanse for them even to see you in combat.
On top of that you brag about killing them 1-3 and calling them stupid in an feeble attempt to make you look like the *good one.
Bro if you think skill or brainpower is involved in playing a perma tr and troll points against pugs the brain transplant might be needed after all but I think its your head that your talking about......
You cannot put pugs against any half-decent backcappers.
Well, I'd say about 1 in 4 games I'm able to convince them to just ignore the point and I take on the perma. It helps that I play HR and most of the time I can at least stalemate the rogue myself (for now- once the set bonus is nerfed probably not).
Bro if you think skill or brainpower is involved in playing a perma tr and troll points against pugs the brain transplant might be needed after all but I think its your head that your talking about......
I also got tells of course, including "Dumb perma loser", "no skills TR", "n**b perma", and also "I wish you die" You can bet that during the time they were busy typing I was busy DFing them to death.
There is no end to the hate that a backcapping rogue can generate. Personally I respect permas a lot more than GWFs since the whole playstyle involves strategy and hitting duelist's flurry is a skill- man there was one TR recently who hit like every single one on me and I'm pretty good at avoiding it.
You pick to play a perma tr in about the only pvp game where you can stay inivis and fight and then troll pugs with no chanse for them even to see you in combat.
On top of that you brag about killing them 1-3 and calling them stupid in an feeble attempt to make you look like the *good one.
Bro if you think skill or brainpower is involved in playing a perma tr and troll points against pugs the brain transplant might be needed after all but I think its your head that your talking about......
You, Sir, have no clue about how stealth works or about pvp overall.
The only ones who complain about perma stealth rogues a re the newbie-pvplers.
Because they maybe have never played a TR, not knowing the time windows of their vulnarbility or how are their move patterns and so on.
People come in a pvp match, used to fighting brain dead npc monsters. Against AI based enemies, people develop very basic strategies. They learn to autopilot the AI because its always the same.
Then these players come to pvp and facing opponents with real brains and all their thinking and playing patterns are worthless.
This is so very true especially about stealth because no monster used that ability the TR does in pvp.
Pvp in domination is very artificial and so different from the normal pve play. THAT is the very reason why u facing sometimes really bad pugs.
We need a pvp tutorial! Seriously!
You, Sir, have no clue about how stealth works or about pvp overall.
The only ones who complain about perma stealth rogues a re the newbie-pvplers.
Because they maybe have never played a TR, not knowing the time windows of their vulnarbility or how are their move patterns and so on.
People come in a pvp match, used to fighting brain dead npc monsters. Against AI based enemies, people develop very basic strategies. They learn to autopilot the AI because its always the same.
Then these players come to pvp and facing opponents with real brains and all their thinking and playing patterns are worthless.
This is so very true especially about stealth because no monster used that ability the TR does in pvp.
Pffft. I played a semi-perma for a while. There is very little skill involved apart from correctly timing DF, which isn't even necessary to successfully troll a point forever. The only build requiring less skill is the faceroll GWF.
Pffft. I played a semi-perma for a while. There is very little skill involved apart from correctly timing DF, which isn't even necessary to successfully troll a point forever. The only build requiring less skill is the faceroll GWF.
The fact that u can troll a point proves my point.
Sure, if two 9k gs and inexpirienced players going after a 15k+gs perma, they are toast. But they are toast against any decent 15k+ player sitting on a point.
Its very simple:
Theres are perma against my team?
- I send myself (PF HR)--> perma is toast
- Send a pvp DC to the point. --> perma is countered
- Send a tanky and skilled GF --> perma countered
- send a gwf monster --> if the the perma is not very skilled and loaded hes in trouble
- send a perma --> countered down to skill (one of the reasons why the bile TR has became so common)
Maybe not all the counter measures there are, but enough. If ur really think perma requires no skill than u have never faced one of the options above.
The fact that u can troll a point proves my point.
Sure, if two 9k gs and inexpirienced players going after a 15k+gs perma, they are toast. But they are toast against any decent 15k+ player sitting on a point.
Its very simple:
Theres are perma against my team?
- I send myself (PF HR)--> perma is toast
- Send a pvp DC to the point. --> perma is countered
- Send a tanky and skilled GF --> perma countered
- send a gwf monster --> if the the perma is not very skilled and loaded hes in trouble
- send a perma --> countered down to skill (one of the reasons why the bile TR has became so common)
Maybe not all the counter measures there are, but enough. If ur really think perma requires no skill than u have never faced one of the options above.
Basically this!
A 14k hr or gwf kill the perma in few seconds.
About dc....true..mbasically they stop fighting and start looking at each others with a sexy look.
About gf....no... this is bull****
You pick to play a perma tr in about the only pvp game where you can stay inivis and fight and then troll pugs with no chanse for them even to see you in combat.
On top of that you brag about killing them 1-3 and calling them stupid in an feeble attempt to make you look like the *good one.
Bro if you think skill or brainpower is involved in playing a perma tr and troll points against pugs the brain transplant might be needed after all but I think its your head that your talking about......
I play a GWF and a CW as well and solo queue many times even as it goes against my judgement. No bragging at all. The pugs were bad and deserve to die. They made me lose so many games especially on the CW, leaving me alone at mid or to backcap, cause they were busy trying to find some guy with legendary waters, rank 10s and 2K regen that they cannot scratch.
Also, lately, after last patch, i'm experiencing a ton of rubberbanding and lag issues, which makes almost impossible to catch a perma TR. Anyone else is experiencing this bad lag after last update, or is it just me?.
Unrelated note. I found that the rubberbanding only comes if you join pvp after you've spent time recently in either icewind pass, or dwarf valley. Especially if you've driven by any heroic encounters. These days I pvp before I do dailies in the mod 3 areas, preferably joining the queue from trade of blades in the back room.
Permastealth tr wise, just send one player, an hr, to stalemate the node with him, and fight on 4 vs. 4. Actually, if the hrs any good, he'll probably kill him.
Pffft. I played a semi-perma for a while. There is very little skill involved apart from correctly timing DF, which isn't even necessary to successfully troll a point forever. The only build requiring less skill is the faceroll GWF.
I don't see where people get the "no skill required" for permas (semi-permas, really). From a GWF PoV, I see HUGE variances in skill. I find many are just good at staying stealthed but can't find a way to land DF effectively (I kill those rather easily), the ones with skill are impressive. I usually don't want any distractions when I'm fighting the ones with the skills since they are not making any discernable mistakes. I don't really even want another team mate (pug) to show up and try to "help" because that will make the TR do something different while I'm trying to pattern him or her. I don't know, seems pretty easy to me to witness the fact that there most definitely is such a thing as a skilled TR. Granted, I would have an easier time if I slotted roar but that wouldn't signify them as having any less skill.
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2014
You would figure the advise in the first post would be common sense but it amazes me how many times my team will literally waste all match on a single point ignoring the other two due to a Rogue, GWF or GF.
As a GF I love it when more than one person plays with me on their point...
But when I am another class, particularly an HR, I get so frustrated when team members think getting our home point back for 10 seconds will help win the match while the other team is laughing at the other two points they control.
You would figure the advise in the first post would be common sense but it amazes me how many times my team will literally waste all match on a single point ignoring the other two due to a Rogue, GWF or GF.
As a GF I love it when more than one person plays with me on their point...
But when I am another class, particularly an HR, I get so frustrated when team members think getting our home point back for 10 seconds will help win the match while the other team is laughing at the other two points they control.
Worst case is when 3 of 5 of your team are fighting such things, while your team is doing thing THEY are NOT on the point while those people they are fighting ARE in fact ON the point..... *face palm*
That is when I do what I can, to try to save us; even if I die on the point. Because to me you live & you die for that point while on that dang point.
How to post images remove spaces I added [shouldbelikethis] vs [ not like this ]
[ img ] typeurlhere [ /img ]
I don't see where people get the "no skill required" for permas (semi-permas, really). From a GWF PoV, I see HUGE variances in skill. I find many are just good at staying stealthed but can't find a way to land DF effectively (I kill those rather easily), the ones with skill are impressive. I usually don't want any distractions when I'm fighting the ones with the skills since they are not making any discernable mistakes. I don't really even want another team mate (pug) to show up and try to "help" because that will make the TR do something different while I'm trying to pattern him or her. I don't know, seems pretty easy to me to witness the fact that there most definitely is such a thing as a skilled TR. Granted, I would have an easier time if I slotted roar but that wouldn't signify them as having any less skill.
I didn't say that there weren't any skilled perma TRs. There are some extremely skilled ones out there. But the basic build requires little skill to be very effective against most PuGs. The fact that there are a large number of poor TRs has more to do with the number of people playing them than the skill level required.
Comments
Do I think perma is broken. Yes I do
Do I think an IV Sent gear is equally broken? Yes I do
Do I think they dev's will ever fix anything and balance the game? No I don't
From what I've see (I don't have a TR), HRs, TRs and GWFs are the best at combating a TR.
[ img ] typeurlhere [ /img ]
But given the fact that people in PVP are really not smart in general, if you are pugging and enemy have a good perma then best way to deal with him is to send someone keep suicide to him while you guys try to clear the other points before the perma clear yours.
But just saying Perma carry games in pug games way too hard. It is so easy to make their entire team to come camp you, and then all you need to do is dance around the pillar... while you enjoy free points from the rest 2 nodes...
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
You should definitely try to kill him with multiple people as fast and as brutal as possible, hopefully discouraging him from coming back. Ideally it will be such a horrific massacre that the player will uninstall the game and there will be one less perma-rogue to deal with.
But like I said in the OP, if you can't kill him quickly with multiple people, then you need to apply this strategy.
Just say, "Only 1 play with the rogue and waste time at our point".
Hrmm... Maybe I'll try this instead of "Quit ****ing with the godamn TR morons! Leave 1 there and come mid so I can win this for you"
I think I need more sensitivity training.
Don't bring CWs
Also, lately, after last patch, i'm experiencing a ton of rubberbanding and lag issues, which makes almost impossible to catch a perma TR. Anyone else is experiencing this bad lag after last update, or is it just me?
However, i see not-so-many players complaining about permas. They tend to complain about GWFs more, even if perma TRs are, right now, as point-trolling as old sentinels were.
I have been having issues with rubberbanding and bad lag after this last patch also.
Jugger Conq GF
....
I was having really bad trouble with it last week. I ended up downloading ping programs and trying to turn off extra windows services and anything I can think of. I actually had a service appointment scheduled with comcast to check on my connection.
Before that happened though I just stumbled upon an idea somewhere of turning all windows services ON. I tried that and viola everything is back to normal.
Can't tell if that was really the fix or other things I did (like install all windows updates, upgrade netframework, etc).
At least in my case it was not on their end although it did start around the time of the last patch.
Not having teamspeak on seems to help with lag, but ts being the go-to communication tool in pvp...it sucks to have it turned off. Will keep trying different things.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Why not just use the built in game chat? I don't chat but it seems to be a really nice feature of the game, although for me it's usually people laughing and goofing off in some other language.
With some pugs it won't matter who you send to base they will all die pretty quickly. If the opponent pugs are equally as weak I can accomplish the same thing at their base until they give up capping it. Then I start alternating middle and opponents base. It all depends on whether your team keep contending and how long they last contending.
You cannot put pugs against any half-decent backcappers.
Yesterday I played a few solo games on my perma, had a 2-man pre against me from a PvP guild. 80% or so of the game I was against 3 people that could not bring me to below 50% HP once. The 2 guys I already had on my friends list, they tried telling the pugs to leave so one of them could contest with me, but pugs wanted to kill me so bad, they cam each time from spawn, all, directly to me. So they had to go the other nodes 2vs4 while I was keeping in check 1vs3 people, cause there was no communication with the pugs.
Talked after the game and they copy/pasted for me what the pugs said. There was an avalanche of insults from the pugs towards the PvPers that tried to make them play the game properly, including threats and stuff. I also got tells of course, including "Dumb perma loser", "no skills TR", "n**b perma", and also "I wish you die"
My conclusion?
Cannot educate pugs. They need new brains, a transplant of sorts.
You pick to play a perma tr in about the only pvp game where you can stay inivis and fight and then troll pugs with no chanse for them even to see you in combat.
On top of that you brag about killing them 1-3 and calling them stupid in an feeble attempt to make you look like the *good one.
Bro if you think skill or brainpower is involved in playing a perma tr and troll points against pugs the brain transplant might be needed after all but I think its your head that your talking about......
Well, I'd say about 1 in 4 games I'm able to convince them to just ignore the point and I take on the perma. It helps that I play HR and most of the time I can at least stalemate the rogue myself (for now- once the set bonus is nerfed probably not).
There is no end to the hate that a backcapping rogue can generate. Personally I respect permas a lot more than GWFs since the whole playstyle involves strategy and hitting duelist's flurry is a skill- man there was one TR recently who hit like every single one on me and I'm pretty good at avoiding it.
You, Sir, have no clue about how stealth works or about pvp overall.
The only ones who complain about perma stealth rogues a re the newbie-pvplers.
Because they maybe have never played a TR, not knowing the time windows of their vulnarbility or how are their move patterns and so on.
People come in a pvp match, used to fighting brain dead npc monsters. Against AI based enemies, people develop very basic strategies. They learn to autopilot the AI because its always the same.
Then these players come to pvp and facing opponents with real brains and all their thinking and playing patterns are worthless.
This is so very true especially about stealth because no monster used that ability the TR does in pvp.
Pvp in domination is very artificial and so different from the normal pve play. THAT is the very reason why u facing sometimes really bad pugs.
We need a pvp tutorial! Seriously!
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
The fact that u can troll a point proves my point.
Sure, if two 9k gs and inexpirienced players going after a 15k+gs perma, they are toast. But they are toast against any decent 15k+ player sitting on a point.
Its very simple:
Theres are perma against my team?
- I send myself (PF HR)--> perma is toast
- Send a pvp DC to the point. --> perma is countered
- Send a tanky and skilled GF --> perma countered
- send a gwf monster --> if the the perma is not very skilled and loaded hes in trouble
- send a perma --> countered down to skill (one of the reasons why the bile TR has became so common)
Maybe not all the counter measures there are, but enough. If ur really think perma requires no skill than u have never faced one of the options above.
A 14k hr or gwf kill the perma in few seconds.
About dc....true..mbasically they stop fighting and start looking at each others with a sexy look.
About gf....no... this is bull****
I play a GWF and a CW as well and solo queue many times even as it goes against my judgement. No bragging at all. The pugs were bad and deserve to die. They made me lose so many games especially on the CW, leaving me alone at mid or to backcap, cause they were busy trying to find some guy with legendary waters, rank 10s and 2K regen that they cannot scratch.
No mercy from me for these pugs, sorry.
Unrelated note. I found that the rubberbanding only comes if you join pvp after you've spent time recently in either icewind pass, or dwarf valley. Especially if you've driven by any heroic encounters. These days I pvp before I do dailies in the mod 3 areas, preferably joining the queue from trade of blades in the back room.
Permastealth tr wise, just send one player, an hr, to stalemate the node with him, and fight on 4 vs. 4. Actually, if the hrs any good, he'll probably kill him.
I don't see where people get the "no skill required" for permas (semi-permas, really). From a GWF PoV, I see HUGE variances in skill. I find many are just good at staying stealthed but can't find a way to land DF effectively (I kill those rather easily), the ones with skill are impressive. I usually don't want any distractions when I'm fighting the ones with the skills since they are not making any discernable mistakes. I don't really even want another team mate (pug) to show up and try to "help" because that will make the TR do something different while I'm trying to pattern him or her. I don't know, seems pretty easy to me to witness the fact that there most definitely is such a thing as a skilled TR. Granted, I would have an easier time if I slotted roar but that wouldn't signify them as having any less skill.
As a GF I love it when more than one person plays with me on their point...
But when I am another class, particularly an HR, I get so frustrated when team members think getting our home point back for 10 seconds will help win the match while the other team is laughing at the other two points they control.
Worst case is when 3 of 5 of your team are fighting such things, while your team is doing thing THEY are NOT on the point while those people they are fighting ARE in fact ON the point..... *face palm*
That is when I do what I can, to try to save us; even if I die on the point. Because to me you live & you die for that point while on that dang point.
[ img ] typeurlhere [ /img ]
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder