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Could need/greed system be improved?
escapados2
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 64 Arc User
My question is born of fact that recently I encountered rising incident of "ninjitsu".
Parties declared greed run but frequently people decide that thay really need something and turn to need (probably everyone experienced this many times).
Of course we could make runs with our Guild, but frequently guilds are small with not so many active players.
The other side of coin is that in some such cases there are several members of the same guild so if it is you who chosen need you will be kicked, but no such punishment will come for them.
.
So is it possible to set the rules for rolls at the beginnig of the run (for example by leader, and everyone in the group can see it), and thay cannot be change during a run ? So it will be possible to accept roll or pass? Of course with option for selective rolls if a group wish so?
Parties declared greed run but frequently people decide that thay really need something and turn to need (probably everyone experienced this many times).
Of course we could make runs with our Guild, but frequently guilds are small with not so many active players.
The other side of coin is that in some such cases there are several members of the same guild so if it is you who chosen need you will be kicked, but no such punishment will come for them.
.
So is it possible to set the rules for rolls at the beginnig of the run (for example by leader, and everyone in the group can see it), and thay cannot be change during a run ? So it will be possible to accept roll or pass? Of course with option for selective rolls if a group wish so?
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You can set the group loot rules as leader, but no one will stay in your group for long if you choose the other options. Or you could just play the game with need/greed and let the dice fall where they may. Greed runs are just a nice way of saying 'hey, I know this game is needlessly RNG but lets add yet another layer of RNG on top of the RNG. Because we heard you liked random!'
The game decides who win's with need/greed, but people insist on whining about 'ninja' looters who might actually need their class items. If you don't think it's fair that certain classes gear isn't worth jack diddly, play a class with more valuable gear. Problem solved.
That, or complain to Cryptic that some classes are so superfluous that no one buy's their gear since no one plays that class. (Which is something I hear coming from GF's a lot in 'greed' runs; that being that the items they could need on are universally useless and valueless compared to, say, CW or HR sets.)
Heck, the vote-kick system also needs an overhaul; For one thing, it should be impossible to kick someone during combat/a boss fight, and while a loot roll is going on.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I definitely like the idea of making it 150% harder for new players to gear up their characters. It should drastically reduce the player base. This would go wonderfully hand-in-hand with the recent Coal Ward nerf to make Neverwinter a completely pay to play game.
/sarcasm
Set your loot rules to Round Robin and see how long it takes your team to evaporate.
I'm not sure how you got that from what I posted. Most players will get their gear from the Dungeon Delve chests, not as a random drop. Regardless, adding a greed-only option and eliminating, (or at least reducing), loot ninjas can only help them get a fair shot at gear.
Either way, I'm sure most new players are getting epic gear from Dread Ring, Feywild, or from Unicorn/Drake seal vendors before they start putting together a full set...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Can't the Round Robin option be set so that all gear, including purple epics, are randomly assigned to random group members?
You know, for some reason clicking the greed button makes people feel like they actually did something instead of simply participating in one gigantic RNG circle-jerk. It's literally the same thing, but people feel better when they click a thingy for some reason.
EDIT:
These do not count, I am referring to real gear that actually matters instead of the filler garbage you put on because you keep getting shafted by greed runs.
This isn't me angry either; I'm geared already on all my characters. I just remember the nonsense all too clearly.
Gentlemen's agreements in a PUG F2P team do not exist.
You will be much happier once you either learn that lesson, stop caring, or find a trustworthy guild/friends list.
I don't like the idea of globalization and formation of mega-guilds to be more sure that I could make a run, choose need and not be kicked out or make a run and get a loot, not taken by some ninja.
Especially usually such person waits to the end to pick need instead of greed to win.
I know - thats the same as in real life, with difference of anonymity and no risk of punishment.
Yes, I like randoms cause sometimes I could learn something from them also. But like in sports I like fair play.
How then you imagine economy of Neverwinter?
Yeah, now that you mention it, that actually would be as though everybody rolled greed on everything, without bothering anyone with pop-ups. If you see it on the ground, it is your pre-rolled loot and you can leave it there if you don't want it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
1. Round robin and all greed are not the same, In all greed, a person can pick the items near him and there is no need for all the party run around like headless chikens picking up stuff from the ground.
More so, in Greed all runs one can pass, there are many items i dont need (all the blue stuff, Off hands) and if i pass the person that wants tham have better chance to get 'em.
Also there are cases when someone asks for an item, now they can need or all the rest can pass, this is not possible in round robin and in round robin you dont see what was dropped to the rest.
2. I can't believe that someone will bind and item instead of selling it when you can get the same set item bound from DD chest.
I dont think the runs became so hard that a person can't run many of those, specially with the GS inflation and the fact you can get 12k with blues, to get set from DD chest.
But well thats only my opinion, i dont believe anyone should have priority on loot over others. and hence should not need, but for those that feel that need is necessary it should bind the item.
Just a question:
Lets say we run together ToS, i'm a GF (just hypothetical) and you CW (we are both fully geared) and an HV tunic drops, what do you press ?
(we dont know each other very well, splitting not a good option) the item worth about 800k, GF armor worth about 80k from the same ToS, no one was slacking on the way..
btw, what you think about greed runs, i think about need, i think it's unfair that a person who did the same job will have some advantage over others on loot rols. It's disrespectful to others. I have no problem giving away very expensive equipment, but i would like it to be my /team decision and not forced upon me as fact. And more so many help others to gear by running multiple DDs, imo, i'ts extremely not polite for a gearing person to need something valuable when he was carried specifiably to get the DD chests on multiple runs (without asking - asking is something else completely)
both things are not decided by players and end up being just pure luck.
If I'm fully geared and someone says he needs an item for his char (assuming he isn't fully geared of course) I'd gladly give it to him.
Funny story, I needed a pair of t2 arms so I had been watching them on the auction house. We got them in a friend run. We all greeded and they went to the cleric. The cleric offered them to me, but I knew if I had won them I would just sale them. I informed him of that much and he put them up on the auction house. That night, before bed, I was checking auctions, and he had put them up with a 50k gap. I bought them and resold them for a 30k profit in about 2 hours. It was funny cause I flipped the item I had got in my own guild group.
Anyway yeah... let the rich make you wealthy for saving them time. Get your stuff from the chest. Everyone I know uses greed only.
T2 sets come mostly out of the DD chests. As was mentioned, it's foolish to bind a HV tunic that dropped, instead of selling it and waiting to get it from the chest, while you spend the money getting better enchantments or whatever else you need that doesn't drop.
People need on stuff all the time that they do not need. They just happen to be the correct class.
When I go with my guild, it's a need run. I do this because they're my friends and guildies and I want them to gear up so we can grow and do bigger dungeons. But if I have to go outside the guild to find people, it's greed all. I can't expect to ask someone to help me, without them getting a fair shake at loot.
If I join someone else's group, it's their rules and I follow them. If I'm with unknowns, I watch to see what they do, and do the same. I'm usually with Legit, so it's generally greed all, with the exception of off hands from VT/MC. That's what I like best. Greed runs bring better geared players which allows me to do more runs, and make more AD during DD.
Enforce rainbow parties in PvP ---- 10v10 PvP ----
You are totally off topic. It's about giving players options, not about which way is better or worse. If you agree to run a greed run, then set the option. If you did not agree to run a greed run, then don't set the options. But there should be that option available for players to choose.
And why is greed run so bad? I've seen people need on stuff they are already wearing. Does that constitute as "need"? I don't think so.
If it is not possible to change loot system maybe developers could give us an option to tag player's account as for exemple "like or dislike player" (which could be visible only to player which put tags). This could help to decide if we want to be in the same party with this person. This could be an addition to "ingnoring list" which only silence players.
Because I don't want to overflow my memory with names of misbehaving players (considering all their alts) or guilds.
I don't buy your version of D&D. In most cases (fictional or not) war expeditions even if they have other goals have loot in mind.
As you mentioned "rest for the vendors". In random party you cannot completly trust in honesty of others. I've met full spectrum of behavior, from sharing AD from selling loot with stranger or giveawey of loot you won to someone who need it to ninja-behavior or kicking ot of party.
In the book or reality if someone offends or cheated you you can avoid this person in the future or could pursue and take revenge. In the game it isn't possible, there is simply no option to punish for misbehavior - even 1v1 PvP is not an option (for example DC vs GWF
My concern is not about members of big guild or people with extensive list of friends but about casual players and guildless lonely riders.
That way you won't need that HV tunic if you do not really NEED it, but you get a 20%chance to be able to vendor it.
Most player would prefer a 20%chance to get 500k AD to certain 10k from salvage. Of course, some would need anyway for that certain 10k.
I take it you only played D&D with all-Paladin parties...
In case of mostly Chaotic/Neutral or Neutral/Evil parties, things don't really work as you expect :P
that would force them to actually use the item they needed on, or vote greed if the item sells for more on the ah
Smartest comment I have seen in a long time!
If you need on an item, it is because you NEED it. Therefore, make it bound via the need roll and that way nobody can really complain that you are just trying to make money from it. If you want to make AD off of boss drops, take the same chance as everyone else in the party and roll greed.
Very smart idea.
Because we like playing together and helping our friends and guildies? Because games are supposed to be fun and feeling like you must treat your playtime like a job is really sad?
While in general I agree that it's fiscally smarter to sell unbound gear if you get it and wait until the chest spits out a bound piece for your actual equipment, I end up on runs with people who do not have the opportunity to grind dungeons over and over and over hoping that the RNG is nice to them. If they legitimately need a drop, I'm not gonna begrudge them over it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia