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Was the Nerf too harsh?
mischieve
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 3 Arc User
OK, so now that mod 3 has come out and the mighty split shot has been nerfed...are you guys left feeling similarly to how I am that the nerf was too harsh.
I now find myself hard pressed (14.3k GS) to compete dps wise with an equally geared GWF and their incredible survivability or with an equally geared control wizard and their amazing dps (and better survivability than the HR.)
With the new spec, we gain a little survivability through Battlehoned or Cruel Recovery, but not all that much. 1% temporary hit points isn't a bonus worth ****, even with 35,000 HP you're not even blocking a single hit from a mob you could 2 shot, let alone one of the big ones. The 300 regeneration is nice, but for 4 seconds...again..it's too little too late, with a time limited buff, it should be 1200 regen for 4 seconds. I can get that much regen easily with the addition of a single ring on my stone, or with a few choice pieces of gear.
I feel that taking into consideration the loss of stormstep..not enough survivability or alternative dps is gained to make it worth going pathfinder.
This has left hunter rangers anemic in terms of both DPS and survivability. So we are glass cannons who don't have the DPS to stay alive nor the survivability to keep slugging it out.
I feel like in order to stay alive (I've given up on competitive) I have to constantly play a game of cat and mouse with mobs, praying that I don't train into another group. Marauder's escape has become a necessary part of my rotation as otherwise I find myself getting my head kicked in by the Icewind Dale daily mobs.
Even with electric shot's "buff" it's still terrible compared to split shot, and nothing more than wasted points.
Has anyone found a ranged build that lets you overcome this?
Right now I'm opening with aimed, cycling hindering/disruptive/split shot, Fox Shift and hindering strike when they get to me, and Marauder's escape to get away when they've closed on me.
I find that if I have enough space to dance around like an idiot I can usually survive, but my applied DPS is terrible compared to what it used to be, and I haven't gained any survivability to allow me to survive more than 2 or 3 hits from the Icewind mobs.
Has anyone else come up with a reliable spec/replacement rotation that doesn't leave you feeling like you should just log off and level a GWF or a CW?
I now find myself hard pressed (14.3k GS) to compete dps wise with an equally geared GWF and their incredible survivability or with an equally geared control wizard and their amazing dps (and better survivability than the HR.)
With the new spec, we gain a little survivability through Battlehoned or Cruel Recovery, but not all that much. 1% temporary hit points isn't a bonus worth ****, even with 35,000 HP you're not even blocking a single hit from a mob you could 2 shot, let alone one of the big ones. The 300 regeneration is nice, but for 4 seconds...again..it's too little too late, with a time limited buff, it should be 1200 regen for 4 seconds. I can get that much regen easily with the addition of a single ring on my stone, or with a few choice pieces of gear.
I feel that taking into consideration the loss of stormstep..not enough survivability or alternative dps is gained to make it worth going pathfinder.
This has left hunter rangers anemic in terms of both DPS and survivability. So we are glass cannons who don't have the DPS to stay alive nor the survivability to keep slugging it out.
I feel like in order to stay alive (I've given up on competitive) I have to constantly play a game of cat and mouse with mobs, praying that I don't train into another group. Marauder's escape has become a necessary part of my rotation as otherwise I find myself getting my head kicked in by the Icewind Dale daily mobs.
Even with electric shot's "buff" it's still terrible compared to split shot, and nothing more than wasted points.
Has anyone found a ranged build that lets you overcome this?
Right now I'm opening with aimed, cycling hindering/disruptive/split shot, Fox Shift and hindering strike when they get to me, and Marauder's escape to get away when they've closed on me.
I find that if I have enough space to dance around like an idiot I can usually survive, but my applied DPS is terrible compared to what it used to be, and I haven't gained any survivability to allow me to survive more than 2 or 3 hits from the Icewind mobs.
Has anyone else come up with a reliable spec/replacement rotation that doesn't leave you feeling like you should just log off and level a GWF or a CW?
Post edited by mischieve on
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The main reason, for me, is that while a GWF can attack and "heal" easily thru a mob (be it monsters or players), we instead need to spend time dodging, for once. And secondly, we basically have all the "high hitting" at wills that require charging (time spent, and the most important is ever-interrupted)
When I activate Rain of Arrows I can easily heal 50% of my life bar in a few seconds (my feeling is that the Greater Plaguefire ticks of a Rain of Arrows crit do trigger Cruel Recovery). I now stay in the middle of the fray and rotate Rain, Thorn Ward and Fox Shift, plus Careful attack on tough mobs or bosses.
ATM I have 1,2k Lifesteal and 900 regen that, combined with the stream of healing coming from Cruel Recovery, make me very hard to kill. I just ran Karrundax and tanked Pyraphenya first and the Forgemaster afterwards while my buddies handled mobs without a sweat.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Personally I go combat build as a stormwarden and use clear the ground which was also buffed and has great aoe potential as it fits into the rest of the skills, couple that with blade storm and twin blade storm, and so you're right in the melee when you use rain of arrows, thorn ward, split the sky (40% stronger now) and whatnot, focusing the mobs around you and right in your storm. High deflect and fey thistle boon, you're doing pretty well. I find that I can keep up with your average GWF, and a group might still want a GWF over a ranger like mine and probably wouldn't ask specifically for it, but a HR can help set up a nice kill zone with stuff raining down from the sky and a nasty thorn ward/ranger twirling around like a spinning ball of death. The strategy of most groups is to have the tanks get aggro and then aoe with the wizards in that area, and I fit fairly well into this.
But yeah, I think the devs DO know full well that people aren't pleased because they want to be powerful rangers and don't want to rely on melee, so I have sympathy for those people until they sort it out in the future. But I think they should try a different strategy in the meantime, especially if they pvp a lot.
Do people even...
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
Not sure about the healer but undoubtedly these were parties without a tank. Only ungeared groups tend to actually wish to run with a tank. With masses and masses of DPS and lifesteal, there were groups running without a healer as well. So I wouldn't make any assumptions about those party compositions.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Uhh no. 2nd as often as 3rd. Basically the more CWFs there were the better my rank because they eat each other's DPS.
The Ranger class is dead with the release of the new mod. The Devs for some reason thought they needed a fourth melee class leaving the CW as the only true range class. Right now any archer in pvp or pve is a joke. With 20 second cool downs for encounter powers, severely low dps bow shots "Except Aimed shot which is always interrupted because it takes so long" and everyone in pvp dodging most of our bow shots a true ranger is just not an option. Now we must be a Hybrid with all serious dps coming from melee. This is more of a rogue than a ranger and Neverwinter loses some of its flavor. If the Devs feel they must give rangers melee then how about two paths at lvl 30. One for melee and one archery. The best option though is to completely do away with all melee attacks and let those who miss it play one of the other three melee classes.
Pish posh! I'm doing just fine as both Archer and Melee in pvp at the moment thank you very much. Both specced as Stormwarden to boot. Pve content is a bit more challenging in IWD but its far from the doom and gloom being bandied around on the forum. Players try the same old powers post Mod 3 and cry that the class is broken without ever testing new options. Thorn Ward is one ability that is shining in Mod 3. Suck it up or GTFO and reroll GWF/CW for some cheesy facerolling.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
There are plenty of build options that will allow you to contribute to a party, and in PvP a Pathfinder HR is in a good place. And no, not melee spec either.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
They dont do math.
They dont read notes (aside from their class notes).
They didnt try to play the class they're "discussing".
They just... Derp. A lot.
Name one. Just one. One single flocking lone skill choice that may keep us up in terms of AOE damage so that we won't get booted from some shifty dungeon run unless overgeared by +5k compared to CW Derps™. Name me one such skill you dimwit. One. Just one.
Summarizing the above mentioned Derps™, lets see:
95% of PVE "content" these days consists of AOE. Lots of AOE. LOADS of AOE. And this is the exact reason why overbuffed CWs were so much requested by people. With latest mod they got their overbuffedness overbuffed even further, because We're Cryptic flock you thats why. HRs who struggled to compete in terms of necessarity in a group back then got themselves nerfed by a flat 25%. Get your +100% buff to the skill that deals 1 to 2 damage and be happy with it. Ah yes, "Cryptic". Turian councilor pun intended.
Now we're desperate and crying out for devs to fix this preposterous bullshift.
CWs deal twice our AOE damage in bursts, have no problem with aggro for some MIRACLOUS reasons and on top of that they are actually CONTROL wizards which means they can chaincontrol an entire bunch of mobs for long enough to melt them down.
GWFs are _literally_ unkillable, they actually enjoy being hit, they can heal themselves through anything and they STILL deal slightly higher (up to 1.5x) damage than HRs of the same GS do. And yes, they have some CC abilities. They're low, they're not quite useful but its still more than HRs have.
And then these two types approach the HR forum section and post some "lol u just n@b hr is k lol l2p hurr durr".
I think I'm going to shoot something right now. BRB.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
so really all this theorycraft about pve is quite meaningless
Same goes for PvP...
Who cares about sandbox of a so-called "PvP" where the one who has more GWFs and GFs wins regardless of any skill or gear? Especially with the amount of Derp™-class GFs I happen to meet lately. Charge, knockback, prone, stun, charge, knockback, prone, stun, charge, knockback, prone, stun, charge, knockback, dead. Ah yes, "PvP".
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
LOL, but seriously No one ever will like a Nerf that just a fact. No one is ever gonna be like "hrm I though I did too much dammage anyways". Sometimes the dev's turns your favorite char to a lemon that just means its time to make some mean lemonade, or play another char.
I think what Ontisz is angry about is that he needs to do more than sit there and rapidly click Split Shot to get Paingiver in PvE now. You know, HR gets three more Encounters and two more At-Will's than every other single class in the game and we can spam each and every one of them if built properly.
I'd probably be pissed too if I outright bought a class because of one OP ability and then that ability got nerfed right as I dropped a huge wad of real world cash on a character. I mean, how much did you spend on your HR exactly Ontisz? I get the feeling you were trying to P2W and failed miserably.
The saddest part of all is that even though Split Shot get nerfed the HR still does great damage. Is it OP damage still? No. Just great damage. So incredibly sad huh?!?
For comparison, my Split Shot was critting for ballpark 12.5k per target hit before the nerf. Now it is critting for around 10k per target. Oh friggin' no and boo friggin' hoo. It's still great for an At-Will spammable AoE.
( vvv Oh, and read my signatures below. vvv )
I don't think you can even beat a CW if he is not using meatball or just really good at dodging your ****.
Might come down to gear i guess but havent faced a single cw that stod a chanse in pvp using meele/fox shift build.
Using fast cooldown on encounters with constricting+disruptive shot they are canon food 1-1 mostly, only time they are really annoying is when you have a gwf/gf that chain prone you to help them or if they are 2 and they can chain cc you down.
But no class should be able to win easy against 1-2 so thats just fine imho.
Gwfs 1-1 are mostly no problem either execp a few bis geared wich know how to use roar and hits for 20k+ thanks to GSP enchant and new dam stacking abilitys (and yea the cooldown feat helps them to spam ccs like crazy also).
A. No HR using the old build have beaten my CW yet.
B. No HR using the old build have beaten my GWF yet.
And I play with/against the top tier player on the server, so I think I would take my word instead of yours. Plus even the top tier HR don't think they can beat semi-ok GWF with the old build.
And facts for you IBS doesn't do 20K unless you are at extremely low HP, and they would need to be using vorpal most likely. So when you get hit for 20K it is because you got only 10% something HP left in that case you are HAMSTER anyway.
B. No HR using the old build have beaten my GWF yet.
I will test my build against your cw any time feel free to pm me ingame @marnival.com always fun to test 1-1 and learn new stuff.
About IBS yes it does over 20khp quite often when their stacks is at max (whish is the case now that most use GPF) the fact that you mitigate some of the dam is another thing. I guess I was talking about before mitigation and you after :-).
About taking your word for it, even if i pug 90% of the time (i dont think premades facerolling pugs is anything but poor players wanting to feel mighty) I do get invited to groups now and then so facing premades from high end guild is nothing new to me, so I rather take my own experience for it :-).
Best
I believe you 100%, but am curious what your in-game gwf name is.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Before the patch, if your CW wasn't #1 on the damage, then he sucked. After the patch, if your CW wasn't #1 on the damage, then he sucked.
Personally, I still use split shot because it's still really, really, really good. If there is an issue with the game, it's that none of the DPS classes (including HR) need the other classes to support them. Basically the content is too easy and everything can be gunned down before it poses a real threat. It's lame and boring.
Never tried Castle Never or other epic dungeons?
I feel happy for you having utter nutwits in your parties. I also get 11k Derps™ in my parties and I indeed outdamage them by the ratio at least 2x. It doesn't prove anything, since I am well aware that a CW with my level of gear would leave me far beind in a VT run, as I am not an overconfident hypocrite.
I am still waiting for you and your Derpy™ friends to name me one single encounter that stands as viable AOE, aside from ROA (that requires proper mob positioning anyway). CWs have lots of AOE, we only have one skill. On top of that our AOE damage output is mostly at-will. I dont think even you'd be yarrtarded enough to disagree on that at-wills are _meant_ to deal less damage than encounters.
...right?
The likes of them prefer to /flex without having a slightest cue what, say, Valindra is.
Reminds me of yesterday. I did two runs with a certain party (a rogue, a GWF, me as HR and 2 CWs) on a DD. We did VT twice within 25 minutes, then two of them had to leave. People were actually impressed by my damage since I outdamaged both CWs by far even before we got to single-target bossfight Valindra. Sadly, the reason of such damage was that I drastically outgeared those CWs (some 15-15.5k GS compared to my 18.6k).
We need proper AOE CC. We need proper AOE damaging abilities.
I came up with the idea a few months ago that Split the sky would use some rework. Some low but steady AOE damage instead of "proc when get hit" and some hurricane-style AOE CC that would drag mobs to the center just like Black hole does, maybe with half the pulling force since its an encounter and not a Daily. This ability alone would allow HRs to be finally welcome to random parties without overbuffing them in your fancy sandbox Domination.
I've threatened Ghostcrawler and got permabanned at Blizzard forums.
I went mad at PL "community" in SWTOR and got permabanned.
Believe me, you don't want to see the tickets I used to sent to CCP. I got permabanned from EVE.
I was infuriated by the amount of autists in League of Legends and got permabanned. Twice.
Cryptic, here I go.
Lo and behold.
Do you even play a GWF?
If you wanna talk about dmg when no mitigation applied you are HAMSTER. TR lashing blade hit for easy 22k-30K on dummy so beat that.
And why you only ask to 1 v 1 my CW cause you know you can't beat my GWF? I will match your gear and still rek you cause I can. I would even spec back to sentinel if you want me to but you have to pay for all fee that is all.
Not trying to trash talk here, but if you are not playing at the top level don't start making comments like MY HR USING THE OLD PATH CAN BEAT THINGS 1 V 1. It is just misleading and only show how ignorant one is in PVP.
When I go DD'ing as HR, I put StS and Thorn to try to Aoe something and contribute to the "speed".
Other Enco is Boar to help a bit the team in defense. Sometimes Stag before the boss, supporting additional debuff on one target.
One Aoe that we have "always on" could be Rain of Arrows, but the target field is so narrow I can't even begin to comment it. At least they could make it different from PvE to PvP. In PvP remains the same, in PvE it's doubled...at least.
Also I'd like you to know that StS is bugged: sometimes it will crit for 0 damage, or less than 100...