use and abuse of Careful Attack from HRs

schweifer1982 · May 2014

I see a big increment of use and abuse by HR of Careful Attack at will for contrast the five other class.

No matter what y do they deal 40k -50k dot with this skill .
And i dont talk about 5 ppl cant kill 1 leather armor wearing archer this is not rigth.
In OWPVP this is more brutal 7 ppl cannot kill 1 Pathfinder HR .

Somone need to fix this skill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF_Hg4ajCSc. Fixed the link.

znudenej · May 2014

schweifer1982 wrote: »

I see a big increment of use and abuse by HR of Careful Attack at will for contrast the five other class.

No matter what y do they deal 40k -50k dot with this skill .
And i dont talk about 5 ppl cant kill 1 leather armor wearing archer this is not rigth.
In OWPVP this is more brutal 7 ppl cannot kill 1 Pathfinder HR .

Somone need to fix this skill http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...Careful-Attack.

... 404 error from link.

syn100 · May 2014

schweifer1982 wrote: »

I see a big increment of use and abuse by HR of Careful Attack at will for contrast the five other class.

No matter what y do they deal 40k -50k dot with this skill .
And i dont talk about 5 ppl cant kill 1 leather armor wearing archer this is not rigth.
In OWPVP this is more brutal 7 ppl cannot kill 1 Pathfinder HR .

Somone need to fix this skill http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...Careful-Attack.

Need only another HR with oakskin for kill in 10 seconds those so called OP HR pathfinders low dmg with Careful Attack.

I have the better template HR stormwarden agaist HR pathfindes... for me are only cannon fodder

If a Pathfinder pump up the dmg of carefull attack cannot pump the global HR dmg... and has from the start lesser 20% dmg of another HR.

2 HR powers CC as binding arrows/oaskin and costrict arrows remove almost all pathfinder mobility... zero or very few few dogdes... oakskin heal with the right feats in nature heals negate the dots from CA, and my output damage is almost 20-30% superior with the right feats in archery at the long range with my very high power (benefit also for regen)... are one the easiest prey in game for me.

if the devs bring back the old split shot for the underpowered HR stormwarden the HR pathfinder is toasted in 5 seconds... thread pathfinder erased at the root

znudenej · May 2014

Nwm, found it after while.

Well thats because careful attack is not dot, its additional damage if is target hurt, and that additional damage procs enchant. Can't say if its bug or not, because it is doing exactly that what is in tooltip.

If its a bug, you could say boons are bugged because they procs from enchants too, same for feats.

If its overpowered, that depends on opinion, I would say no, because tenacity, deflect, defense and any other damage reduction decreases dmg from Careful Attack so in real conditions its doing small dmg.

twilightwatchman · May 2014

The only thing that might be buggy about it is that the additional damage can proc weapon enchantment, and if you use a damaging enchantment that can proc CA extra damage, which in turn...

You get the idea. Practising on the the dummies in ToB I've been able to set up self-sustaining chains using a PF enchant where the PF is constantly renewed for the full duration of CA without having to make any additional hits. This guarantees a full set of CA additional damage ticks with a full set of PF stacks. Add in the debuff from a Thorn Ward and you can see why the damage seems high.

twilightwatchman · May 2014

syn100 wrote: »

Need only another HR with oakskin for kill in 10 seconds those so called OP HR pathfinders low dmg with Careful Attack.

I have the better template HR stormwarden agaist HR pathfindes... for me are only cannon fodder

If a Pathfinder pump up the dmg of carefull attack cannot pump the global HR dmg... and has from the start lesser 20% dmg of another HR.

2 HR powers CC as binding arrows/oaskin and costrict arrows remove almost all pathfinder mobility... zero or very few few dogdes... oakskin heal with the right feats in nature heals negate the dots from CA, and my output damage is almost 20-30% superior with the right feats in archery at the long range with my very high power (benefit also for regen)... are one the easiest prey in game for me.

if the devs bring back the old split shot for the underpowered HR stormwarden the HR pathfinder is toasted in 5 seconds... thread pathfinder erased at the root

Not this garbage again.

I've killed HRs using your type of glass cannon setup. Here's a hint - I used a different rotation.

And one more time since you seem to have a problem understanding this...

There is nothing in your build unique to Stormwarden. Nothing. Which means that any PF HR can run exactly the same build.

demonkyuubi · May 2014

1 vs 1, fighting a hunter is difficult but group fights are different.

a single rogue can just smoke bomb behind them where they will back into and become unable to dodge. courage breaker (on-top of cleric artifact) will easilly cripple their movement.

^any gwf will just finish him off easily

syn100 · May 2014

twilightwatchman wrote: »

Not this garbage again.

I've killed HRs using your type of glass cannon setup. Here's a hint - I used a different rotation.

And one more time since you seem to have a problem understanding this...

There is nothing in your build unique to Stormwarden. Nothing. Which means that any PF HR can run exactly the same build.

and infact I ask for a little buff for the poor stormwarden... bring back the old splitshot for the underpowerd stormwarden.. do u understand?

Thank you for ur (inesistent) hint... I trade with another hint... there are only another HR build that is a little trouble for me... is a mix of combat/nature with high dmg melee

PS: or a lucky guy with fox shift

twilightwatchman · May 2014

demonkyuubi wrote: »

1 vs 1, fighting a hunter is difficult but group fights are different.

a single rogue can just smoke bomb behind them where they will back into and become unable to dodge. courage breaker (on-top of cleric artifact) will easilly cripple their movement.

^any gwf will just finish him off easily

I rarely dodge backwards actually. I'm normally on a node so I circle or even 'ghost walk' through my opponent. That said, an HR's survivability does drop off dramatically with increasing opponents - not least because of the way Lone Wolf works. And anything that compromises movement is deadly.

twilightwatchman · May 2014

syn100 wrote: »

and infact I ask for a little buff for the poor stormwarden... bring back the old splitshot for the underpowerd stormwarden.. do u understand?

Split Shot isn't a Stormwarden ability. And it's still perfectly viable in PvP as it is.

syn100 · May 2014

rewind the tape... wait.... How many kills u have in PvP?

znudenej · May 2014

syn100 wrote: »

rewind the tape... wait.... How many kills u have in PvP?

Could you please stop with this useless OT?

syn100 · May 2014

I like numbers... Im the HR with the high numbers of the kills in leaderboard (and probable matchs and deaths)... so ask numbers is always usefull

For count the HRs that have killed one times 1 vs 1 Syncro need only a hand... and dont need all fingers.

I kill them all multiple times, one was a volontary idiocy... I permit at the guy to stay over a heal spot and I stay in the guy thorward, but the fight was too unbalanced and the nice guy (a HR pathfinder) need a little help by me... and none 2 times (and this in over 400 matchs)

hamletswords · May 2014

So, you're still in a tizzy because they'll eventually take away your broken roar from you.

GWFs will be just fine without it, don't worry and they'll still be the most wanted class in PVP and the second most wanted class in PVE.

But it seems that kind of OP isn't OP enough for you if other classes can put up a fight.

40-50k is ridiculous. GWFs like you have no credibility.

hamletswords · May 2014

twilightwatchman wrote: »

The only thing that might be buggy about it is that the additional damage can proc weapon enchantment, and if you use a damaging enchantment that can proc CA extra damage, which in turn...

You get the idea. Practising on the the dummies in ToB I've been able to set up self-sustaining chains using a PF enchant where the PF is constantly renewed for the full duration of CA without having to make any additional hits. This guarantees a full set of CA additional damage ticks with a full set of PF stacks. Add in the debuff from a Thorn Ward and you can see why the damage seems high.

I don't know how you're getting it to self-sustain. The most I can get from plaguefire activation is maybe 1 or 2 extra procs. I could see it with bilethorn but not plaguefire in my experience.

twilightwatchman · May 2014

hamletswords wrote: »

I don't know how you're getting it to self-sustain. The most I can get from plaguefire activation is maybe 1 or 2 extra procs. I could see it with bilethorn but not plaguefire in my experience.

I'd have to parse it to find out what's happening, and it doesn't always work. If I had to guess I'd say it would depend on the timing of the CA additional hits (max one per 1.5 seconds) and when the PF stacks are falling off. You won't get any benefit from a PF proc if you already have 3 stacks.

jonkoca · May 2014

Okay, I get the "use" part, but not the "abuse" concept. How can I abuse an encounter..? Am I abusing my hammer when I'm driving nails..? Should I use my fist on that nail sometimes... erm, to give that poor nail a chance..?

It's not exactly a 'press here to win button' either, though it does produce a nice bom bom bom sound.

Seriously, stop whining and develop countermeasures. Waters would be a start.

rayrdan · May 2014

i see nothing wrong to spam an at will to refresh a dot to do 1.5k each second to a single dummy!
what s wrong in an at will doing damage?
lets suppose it will do 10k in 18 seconds to a player with some defense ( without taking in count regen ticks and deflect)...cant gwf do a "a little bit more" in "a little less time"?

proneification · May 2014

Is this some kind of retaliation topic for Roar lol?

40-50K is a HUGE exaggeration. If you are to report bugs please try at least to be less GWF-sided and anti-everything else.

People in this forum should take a crash course in honesty.

schweifer1982 · May 2014

proneification wrote: »

Is this some kind of retaliation topic for Roar lol?

40-50K is a HUGE exaggeration. If you are to report bugs please try at least to be less GWF-sided and anti-everything else.

People in this forum should take a crash course in honesty.

Read pls the thread before y post anything .

schweifer1982 wrote: »

I see a big increment of use and abuse by HR of Careful Attack at will for contrast the five other class.

twilightwatchman · May 2014

Since there seems to be some confusion over what's happening with this build, here is my typical rotation:

Thorn Ward (DOT + debuff)
-Stance Change (Melee)-
Careful Attack (DOT + debuff)
Aimed Strike (dmg + DOT)
Fox Shift (dmg)
Steel Breeze (dmg + stamina gain)
Thorn Strike
-Stance Change (Ranged)-
Dodge around sniping with At-Wills/Constricting Arrow until Thorn Ward is up again

Rinse and repeat.

What makes this effective is lots of DOTs ticking and lots of debuffs. No magic. No game-breaking bugs/exploits. Just simple game mechanics similar to what happens when a Thaum MoF CW unloads a full rotation on you.

js3b · May 2014

Yes, 40k dot with carefull attack, yes, of course!!

Not saying that CA is not good, but there is more stuff even stronger than that out there right now...

The plaguefire dot that proc the CA need to be adressed tho...

spongebob56 · May 2014

demonkyuubi wrote: »

a single rogue can just smoke bomb behind them where they will back into and become unable to dodge. courage breaker (on-top of cleric artifact) will easilly cripple their movement.

Wow, I can beat a HR and all I need is a properly placed encounter, a daily, and the right artifact ready? So simple everyone should be doing it.

demonkyuubi · May 2014

spongebob56 wrote: »

Wow, I can beat a HR and all I need is a properly placed encounter, a daily, and the right artifact ready? So simple everyone should be doing it.

that was an either-or statement for rogues only when there is a gwf nearby since people were saying they were impossible to kill 7 vs 1. not my fault most rogues are perma and thus don't use such encounters.

a dazed hunter will be proned and will likely die. a 90% slow for 10 seconds will still allow them to dodge, but they are not moving away

cleric artifact just helps you recharge a daily if it's not ready and you need it now.

tang56 · May 2014

Just wait for the qq about Forest Meditation. 100% deflect, heals and if you use the 4/4 PvP gear, more heals from dots. It's a HR only prenerf emblem lulz.

syn100 · May 2014

twilightwatchman wrote: »

Since there seems to be some confusion over what's happening with this build, here is my typical rotation:

Thorn Ward (DOT + debuff)
-Stance Change (Melee)-
Careful Attack (DOT + debuff)
Aimed Strike (dmg + DOT)
Fox Shift (dmg)
Steel Breeze (dmg + stamina gain)
Thorn Strike
-Stance Change (Ranged)-
Dodge around sniping with At-Wills/Constricting Arrow until Thorn Ward is up again

Rinse and repeat.

What makes this effective is lots of DOTs ticking and lots of debuffs. No magic. No game-breaking bugs/exploits. Just simple game mechanics similar to what happens when a Thaum MoF CW unloads a full rotation on you.

yep.. u use the normal rotation of almost HR pathfinders... not a problem for my template.

U are under CC and in zero or low mobility for all time against me with costrict arrows, binding arrows and destructive shot (9+6+1 seconds, just the time for recharge the 3 CC shots.. raise up 25 points of AP and trim a master archery crits).

If u try use melee stuffs, binding arrows "rubberband" negate that... so u can use only ur low dmg ranged stance... my UBER oakskin heals me for more that damage of careful attacks (dmg + dots)... thorn ward is no good agaist ranged... im out CC for half time and in full dodge mode... u land on me zero or very very few shots... u die at the end ur 2° rotations.

Some time if one of 3 shots: binding arrows, costrct arrows, destructive shot (always crits with my master of archery) = 15K dmg and all my shots lands usually on the poor guy without dodge... if the u are lucky and Fox Cunning negate one the main dmg (binding arrows or crits destructive shot, and not a 1-2K split shot) u can survive 5-6 seconds more... that ur max... im usually at this points with 2/3 or 3/4 of my HP.. u are death

with 2+1 CC can also better managment 2 Pathfinders versus mine (usually the both lands they costrict arrows in the same time.. so i are out CC for half time), but in this case.. the 2 thorn ward give me some dmg if the pathfinders are smart and before use costrict arrows and after land the thorn ward under my feet... (but marauder in/out is usefull in this case)... need only a bit of actenction to avoid a aimed shots or a land of a fox shifts... no big problem... overall in 2/3 of cases i kill both the 2 pathfinders... if the things are no good.. CC both the pathfinders and escape

PS: vorpal give few increase dmg in this case with low dmg shots... my barkshield stop more damage and my terror debuff defence and give a little increase dmg (that bypass defence).

2 HRs against u... no story

twilightwatchman · May 2014

tang56 wrote: »

Just wait for the qq about Forest Meditation. 100% deflect, heals and if you use the 4/4 PvP gear, more heals from dots. It's a HR only prenerf emblem lulz.

Forest Meditation has been like that since the class launched. Have people only just noticed?

Wait till you see an HR with Fey Thistle using it in the middle of combat.

twilightwatchman · May 2014

syn100 wrote: »

y<blah, blah, blah>

Cool story, Bro. Now go bother somebody else.

spongebob56 · May 2014

demonkyuubi wrote: »

not my fault most rogues are perma and thus don't use such encounters.

Permas are old news since the bile and SE nerf. They may be fun for trolling newbies I imagine.

demonkyuubi wrote: »

a 90% slow for 10 seconds will still allow them to dodge,

That is the problem. Courage Breaker is good for enemies who can't dodge. Like the GWF. HRs have the most and longest reaching dodges in the game. Courage Breaker also does not stop encounters so you can just layer the TR with CC (for that really rare moment where you might be out of dodges). In short CB is 100% useless against an HR unless he/she is taking a nap. The only good daily vs an HR is Bloodbath as they can't dodge escape it and it follows them. I've once cleared half the Hotenow map as an HR expended all six dodges while it tracked him.

demonkyuubi · May 2014

spongebob56 wrote: »

Permas are old news since the bile and SE nerf. They may be fun for trolling newbies I imagine.

That is the problem. Courage Breaker is good for enemies who can't dodge. Like the GWF. HRs have the most and longest reaching dodges in the game. Courage Breaker also does not stop encounters so you can just layer the TR with CC (for that really rare moment where you might be out of dodges). In short CB is 100% useless against an HR unless he/she is taking a nap. The only good daily vs an HR is Bloodbath as they can't dodge escape it and it follows them. I've once cleared half the Hotenow map as an HR expended all six dodges while it tracked him.

bile got nerfed?

depends on how long they can keep dodging since they are not moving otherwise.

syn100 · May 2014

As write above for me the HR pathfinders are one the easiest prey in game.

I cannot valutate well the impact of pathfinders in the game, I play only HR and in the my PvP matchs pathfinders dont live along for threading my team.

Seem to me a good contras for the full melee premades and anti GWFs that ruin the game... so they have a utility and enter in the rock, paper, scissor stuffs.

I think so is better ask of buffing TR, CW, DC and GF (maybe a bit the stormawarden with the old split shot) that nerf the HR pathfinders... and maybe a very little down to GWF.

They need unstoppable as they dont have dodge, but need a little rework to unstoppable... and a reduction to their gap closer capability (transfor TR in encounter with CD).. they have also sprint for catch players.

my 2 cents

use and abuse of Careful Attack from HRs

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