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Please rethink Splitshot nerf
hamletswords
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
First of all, I think the nerf was more than 25%. I'm hitting for substantially less with splitshot, even with increased power. It seems to be closer to 45% and I think maybe it was mistakingly nerfed to the original 45% that was announced.
Secondly, I think the entire idea of a splitshot nerf should be rethought. Encounter damage is very low on HRs compared to other classes, so we need at-will damage, and splitshot is the only reliable source.
Absolutely nobody thought HRs were OP in PVE with splitshot the way it was. Some thought they were OP in PVP, but that's not because of damage, it's because of how tanky HRs can get along with great mobility.
Secondly, I think the entire idea of a splitshot nerf should be rethought. Encounter damage is very low on HRs compared to other classes, so we need at-will damage, and splitshot is the only reliable source.
Absolutely nobody thought HRs were OP in PVE with splitshot the way it was. Some thought they were OP in PVP, but that's not because of damage, it's because of how tanky HRs can get along with great mobility.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
Post edited by hamletswords on
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Mind you all that I am NOT and have no intention of ever being a min-maxer. I (personally-speaking, of course) couldn't care less about numbers (that's what the Devs do and get paid for). I'm just going by the overall *feel* of the Split Shot and it still feels quite powerful to me. Perhaps just a smidgeon less powerful, but still plenty.
I must also admit that I am very, very selfish: I only care that the Devs make playing these classes a lot of *fun*. As long as it looks fun, feels fun, plays fun, I'm a happy camper and I salute the Devs for doing what I know is a lot of really hard work and brain-burning with all those numbers and balancing and things.
It might have a real slight ping under the hood that you can only hear when in the driveway idling, but as long as it drives smoothly and give a nice ride, then I'm happy with it. And the truth be told: I throw a lot more trust at the Devs for knowing what they're doing than anything I see from outsiders (read: players). I'm not saying anyone is wrong or anything, just saying the Devs know the real numbers and a lot of data that players will never, ever see. And they (the Devs) only want their game to be the best there is, so nothing will ever be done to intentionally harm that.
TL;DR: I can only speak for myself when I say: Split-shot still feels pretty darned good as it is. No gripes from me.
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
I need split shot to do what I do. Can't do it without it, unless they replace it with something of similar use. I tried all the other powers, Thorn ward does not cut it. Maybe it does in PvP, I wouldn't know. I just did a string of dailies with my HR and it feels like work.. no fun at all. It was loads of fun before mod3.
But whatever. I have 11 other chars to play. I'll play as long as I can have some fun.
(I don't spam split shot. I use it to soften the mob and get them grouped in front of me, then drop rain of arrows and split the sky on them, then switch to melee and finish them, if they last that long. Now I just spend my time repositioning.. over and over and over. I don't even bother with dailies at all, except the occasional seismic shot.)
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
That's because ability damage is so low. If the split shot nerf was intended to get us to rely on abilities more, then we need like double the buffs on abilities we got.
Stormwadern's SS do near the same damage as before till Pathfinder's SS do far less damage.
So @hamletswords which path you use is the question ?
In any case, I was finding myself using split shot a lot less so I decided to switch from ranged to melee feats and powers. So far so good, I think i'm actually doing more damage soloing the icewind dailies because I can just lay down thorn ward & rain of arrows then stand in the middle and spam clear the ground until everything's dead around me. But I can't imagine this'll do much good in dungeons and I haven't tried it enough in pvp yet to see if it'll work better for me.
Anyone else switched from ranged to melee because of the SS nerf?
CW: Rodrant Turnbul
TR: Rodran
DC: Rodrat
GWF: ROARdrant TurnBRAWL
Other GWF: Shieldrant
HR: Bowdrant
SW: Wardrant Turnlock (my main!)
OP: Paladrant (on Preview!)
I switched to Pathfinder. If that is the case than that's totally a bug, because split shot is a normal power and has nothing to do with the paragon trees.
So if you do not use Ambush and careful attack it is pointless to use Pathfinder path. Damage reduction on SS with Pathfinder is 45% or much more. When I test it on preview both paths crit was ~10k vs ~4k this is huge difference. If you are on Pathfinder you must drop Split shot - you have not choice to use it I think.
I just did a quick test on preview and damage is the same for split shot in both paths.
Basically I was critting for about 5k before the change and I'm now critting for about 3k (either path), with increased power.
If it was really just a 25% nerf I should be critting for about 4k with the increased power. 3k seems right if the nerf was 45%, as originally announced but modified.
Split Shot is still doing major damage. I removed it from my action bar for a good spell prior to Mod 3, running with Rapid and Aimed, and even though I enjoyed how it played I am not nearly as effective in either pve or pvp without Split. It is still brutal in pvp to clear a point combined with Thorn Ward. Barring Aimed, it also remains our highest dealing ability by some margin.
I dearly hope the Devs take a long hard look at Split for Mod 4. The ability makes no sense, just turf it. Buff Electric Shot to give the same damage output as Split and increase the radius of Rain of Arrows by at least 100%. We won't need anything else for AoE and we'll be set, no silly aggro'ing of mobs in dungeons because the HR tapping Split pulled mobs at the edge of the cone on either end. We will be able to control what we pull. The only thing I like about Split is the fact that it will hit everything in the cone, both at minimum and maximum range.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I don't consider 3k crits to be major damage when on my GWF, that's about the damage of a single sure strike. Meanwhile I'm doing 10k knockdowns, 20k IBS and 8k Frontline surges. HRs are basically just a nuisance to my GWF.
Thorn Ward is decent but it only hits one person at a time.
HR just doesn't have the burst of GWF or CW anymore when before we could compete with split shot.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
It's a good combo, but I think you guys are underestimating the damage that other classes are putting out.
I 2-shot a CW yesterday on my GWF with knockdown/IBS. I go most matches like 20/3.
Plus, that combo is a DOT and requires them to stand in thorn ward and has no CC. When I use takedown they can't avoid IBS and it's spike damage so they can't heal through it or otherwise negate it.
With splitshot the way it was, I think HR damage would be decent, and they'd be balanced against GWFs trading mobility for tankiness.
Burst is king in PVP and I used to be able to get a decent burst out of fully charged split shots. Now the only real burst is from aimed shot and it's very difficult to get one off (compared to IBS which hits harder and is not at all hard to activate).
***
Basically I thought I was doing pretty well on my HR until I started playing GWF and fighting HRs is like trying to kill a fly that's really elusive.
It sucks because I don't even like playing GWF, but I do like being effective in PVP. I prefer the play style of HR much more though. It's really annoying constantly chasing after everybody.
HAHAHAHA! Cry me a river!
First of all, I always said HR were OP for PVE and PVP because of its damage and not how tanky they can be!
They could literally deal more damage than CW's in dungeons easy with more survivability options! Deal with it!
When people talk about the TR's they dont think about the damage they do do they? Ohh look, he just crit someone half HP, must be op and the CD's are not 20+ or anything! Lets QQ so they nerf! What if I told you that TR's are now the weakest class in the game? hmm? Not convinced? Put a TR, a CW, an HR, a GWF and a DC in a dungeon and see who comes out on the bottom (Clerics do not count as their objective is not damage)!
TR's are now **** and they only keep nerfing them patch after patch!
HR got nerf? Good! I don't even give a cent about that! I am only getting happy!
Stop QQ, HR's are still strong as fk!
Case closed!
This was never true and is even less true now
That's mean.
I do really like the HR class as well compared to my GWF, yep my GWF is more effective in pvp, but i do find them extremely boring to play, I like the challenge of the HR myself. as far as staying elusive from GWF, i actually find it alot of fun and alot of practice, because i know if i screw up just once, I will get owned and wont be able to get back up... The challenge of taking out the GWF without getting hit is just as exciting as the match itself at times. Yep i have lost to alot and i have killed alot of GWFs as well, But each time i fight one, my heart just gets all pumped up...
To the above poster (brun) practice makes perfect, timing is everything with a TR, might i suggest you practice alot if you think TRs are weak.
And yes i do have a fully geared TR in profound gear, rank 9s and 10s, P.Bile so i am also speaking from experience with a TR as well...
Never true? I lost count how many times that was happening!
Its mean? Last time TR got a nerf again everyone was happy and they can't even kill someone in 1 rotation, have LS as biggest core skill wich is easy as fk to dodge but they still nerf the damage and cooldown on it, they also rely on close range at-wills!
Did people give a cent on them? no! Only happyness threads and now they're useless! Have a good one with your nerfs.
TRs aren't useless. They're the best class at contesting a node.
As far as damage goes, Path of the Blade+bilethorn+duelist's flurry will kill most people.
And I honestly don't know what parties you were in where an HR was topping CWs in overall damage in PVE. With very big caps on how many targets can be hit by CW abilities, it's basically impossible.
HR's only AOE is from split shot which is nerfed and only hits up to 5 targets anyway, and Rain of Arrows which has a ridiculously small target area.
Besides just because your class got nerfed doesn't mean you should be getting happy that another is nerfed.
OP class is still OP.
Be that as it may, I refuse to reroll a GWF just because it is still FotM and will be for 3 more months at least. I logged on the other day to find EIGHT GWF online in my guild and me, the lonely HR. What does that tell you about the state of the game I wonder...
I read the patch notes for GWF for Mod 3 and couldn't for the life of me see any nerfs (granted I don't play one so I am not familiar with them) but having faced them in pvp after IWD launched it seems they were buffed if anything. What I cannot fathom is that GWF have the best single-target damage, good AoE, godmode damage resistance and the best sprint in the game. Oh and I hear they make a mighty fine cup of coffee to boot...
Now I refer you to the following quote from Gentlemancrush made in March IIRC:
"please look at GWF performance alongside TR and HR as those are much closer to the performance values we would like to see."
HR seems to be in the same place as TR now in that nobody wants to touch them with a 60-foot barge pole for epic dungeon runs. Comparing GWF to HR/TR is there a greater disparity than between these classes atm? So no, HR are not "still as strong as fk" and nowhere near GWF.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I am agree with you in some directions but see, open Leaderboard and see which class is most on first page.
And after that you can ask yourself - which class can do most or any dung solo.
I know my team was probably weak people but 3? too much bro!
Wow, tell me more all mighty! I am not a Perma stealth, not everyone likes playing/playing against permas and I know it can be furstrating on that. IDK, all I know is that it has happened alot!
5 targets is ofcourse not enough in PVP! Rain of Arrows is intented to be used on bosses like in FH where they don't move alot but it deals alot of damage to the enemy standing on it.
Interesting how you only mention PVP for TR and PVE for HR, let me tell you:
TR's are not wanted in any parties for dungeons unless that means playing Dwarve King for the RUNS! That's all they do! exploits! And Cryptic does nothing about this, its ridiculous! We like doing dungeons too, why can't we? It sucks because they keep nerfing TR's and don't know how it affects our dungeons.
HR is also really good for PVP, they have a **** ton of dodges, insane gap closer, insane gap opener, 6 skills, 2 stances. Not enough? Too bad, adapt like we tried.
Wrong! If people say "it was needed" to my class when it wasnt, then I have the full right of doing the same.
The thing is - I find it pretty darn easy to dodge the attacks from the average GWF on my HR. Whereas he isn't dodging TW+CA+PF any time soon. It's a hoot against Permas as well. And DCs - even the tanky ones. Doesn't work so well against another HR or a CW who knows what he's doing, but there are other tactics to use against these.
Just need to buy another respec in a week or so to tweak my build now. Good times ahead.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
5 targets is not enough period but that is what we are stuck with both Sshot and Eshot if you want aoe damage use your other tools TW CtG StS Sstrike FS we are capable of 12k+ dps thats as good as a TR single target CW aoe just a 2-3k short of a GWF
as far as PvP E/S shots should be used to harrass and dismount players in groups not as a mainstay of spam
*jumps down from soap box* hipity hop hipity hop into the distance