test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

My first impressions on the "emergent" open world "PvP"

13

Comments

  • plaviaplavia Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    benskix2 wrote: »
    From what I've seen the PvE players who go in the PvP zone to mine just try and run away when I attack them. It's not really PVP if one person doesn't fight back.... I let a few run off but then I got bored and chased a gwf and a dc way out of the zone to kill them.

    its cost money to revive in the new pvp area
    for now I go there for the daily task
    I am 15k DC, and every TR / HR / GWF / CW chase me like there is no tomorrow
    some are so noobs that they cant do any damage, I guess they think that DC is so under power in pvp they give it a try
    I actually mange to kill a few like this, but in general I run a way.
    no offence but its really hard to stand against other charcters with same GS as I have
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    Enticing players from either side to play the other mode is the point. PVP players have to grind sharandar and dread ring and now icewind for boons.

    I see nothing on the PVP zone that is essential for content so what's with the complaining

    My point is why entice either side to do the other side? If you want to just PvP you should be able to. If you want to just PvE you should be able to. There should be no "you have to do this" in order to PvP/PvE. You should not get more Black Ice from PvP nodes... etc... etc...
    kungsarme wrote: »
    I don't mind at all if you don't want to PvP. Just saying that I really enjoy having the option to PvP in a PvE environment along side people that are and aren't flagged for it. Me flagging for PvP and coming out to the PvE zone has zero effect on you as a non-flagged player. I personally find it a lot more exciting for me, and you have no requirement to flag. I guess I don't understand your issue?

    I have no problem if you want to "flag" your character for PvP. What I would like to see in all areas you can flag for PvP. That way if you don't want to PvP you don't have to and there is no area where you can't go unless you flag for PvP.
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    sangrine wrote: »
    Pvp zones have pve in them. There are NPC's which can be either enemies or allies. Enemy NPC's are PvE whether they are in a "pve zone" or in a "pvp zone". There are quests to complete in pvp zones. I am often able to complete pvp daily quests on all my characters without killing any real players. Since these pvp daily quests don't require me to kill other players, they are not actually pvp quests. They call them pvp quests because they are located in a pvp zone. The quests are actually pve.

    Instead of removing pve from pvp zones and instead of removing pvp from pve zones, I propose that non-pvp'ers be allowed go anywhere (or almost anywhere) without becoming flagged for pvp. There should be a consequence though. Since non-pvp'ers face less danger and less difficulty, their rewards should be less than players who are flagged for pvp. For example, if a non-pvp'er and pvp'er mine the same black ice node in a pvp zone, the pvp player should get more black ice. Disabling pvp during pvp battle should not be allowed. Some players may abuse that by disabling pvp when they are close to losing the fight. Cryptic may need to add more rules and consequences for disabling pvp, as appropriate.

    Alternatively, Cryptic could create separate IWD instances with only pve. Not a huge fan of this solution, but it would work. As I already said, Players who play in pve-only instances should receive less rewards since they face less danger and less difficulty.

    I agree partially. What I do not agree with is consequences for not flagging PvP. That I just don't understand. Why punish someone just because they don't like your play style?

    As I stated above... Why not make all areas where you can flag for PvP? But don't punish someone just because they don't like to PvP.
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • yarknarfyarknarf Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I like it.

    I have PvP toons and PvE toons.

    I like prowling the land with my PvP toons and hunting the weak.

    I also like sneaking in with my PvE toons and sneakily sneaking the dwarven relics or while deing 4 times to do my daily.

    Come on, thats fun too! :D

    Looking over your shoulder for the gangs in Red while you slip through the wire.
    Oh No! There's one! Can I get away?!? No. I'm dead (again) but only two scrolls left for Daily. (etc, etc)

    Will My PvE buff DC ever be able to kill a single player in there? No. But he can still do other things in IWD and still get his PvP Dailies.

    My PvP toons also have a negative side. I can't do the encounters and camp dailies quite as fast.
  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I agree partially. What I do not agree with is consequences for not flagging PvP. That I just don't understand. Why punish someone just because they don't like your play style?

    As I stated above... Why not make all areas where you can flag for PvP? But don't punish someone just because they don't like to PvP.

    In general, I think players should be rewarded commensurate to their contribution.
    For example, in dungeon delves, some players contribute more healing,tanking,dps and therefore I believe they deserve greater reward.
    A player, who is not flagged for pvp, can not contribute anything to their side in pvp. I think there should be a reward for helping your side in pvp. In heroic encounters, I noticied that my reward is greater if I do more fighting, than if I arrive at the end.

    Inside zones which are specifically designed to be used for pvp, I prefer to discourage non-pvp'ers from loitering and farming. And likewise, I think pvp should be discouraged in places which are primarily intended to be pve. By "discourage", I mostly mean "less rewards". Nothing major.

    I think your view has merit and is easier to code. To me, it's not a huge deal exactly how much people are rewarded (or punished).
    Currently, in Icewind Pass, the difference between black ice nodes inside and outside pvp zones is approximately 30% (I could be wrong about this), which is not a big difference. 30% difference is fine with me.
  • bucklittlebucklittle Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    One of the issues with the PvP zone is that it's the same server with a large PvE area, most of the players are doing PvE and essentially taking up potential PvP slots.

    Another is how the zones are balanced. They try to balance each zone to have an equal number of TT/AB. But their is no way to know which of each side is even interested in PvP. Because each server has a relatively small number of people on it, chances are a lot greater the sides will my notably imbalanced in the PvP area, even if the amount of TT/AB across all instances in the PvP zones are roughly equal.

    Another reason is there is little incentive to go in the PvP zones. So what if you can get more black ice in the PvP area. When the amount of PVPing players are near equal in an instance, you aren't going to be mining much black ice.

    Possible solutions?
    -award glory based on time spent inside the PvP zone.
    -award RAD based on time spent inside the PvP zone.
    -award blue/epic tenacity neck/ring/belt based on time spent inside the PvP zone.
    -double/triple/quadruple rewards in the PvP zone during an Open PvP event.
    -provide a "safe" area for each faction inside the pvp zone.(guards/zap tower/ads)
    -award based on time in combat.
    -award marks/stones/r5/shards
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    yarknarf wrote: »
    I like it.

    I have PvP toons and PvE toons.

    I like prowling the land with my PvP toons and hunting the weak.

    I also like sneaking in with my PvE toons and sneakily sneaking the dwarven relics or while deing 4 times to do my daily.

    Come on, thats fun too! :D

    Looking over your shoulder for the gangs in Red while you slip through the wire.
    Oh No! There's one! Can I get away?!? No. I'm dead (again) but only two scrolls left for Daily. (etc, etc)

    Will My PvE buff DC ever be able to kill a single player in there? No. But he can still do other things in IWD and still get his PvP Dailies.

    My PvP toons also have a negative side. I can't do the encounters and camp dailies quite as fast.

    Again, that is great that you like doing that. But why punish me if I don't like don't that?
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    sangrine wrote: »
    In general, I think players should be rewarded commensurate to their contribution.
    For example, in dungeon delves, some players contribute more healing,tanking,dps and therefore I believe they deserve greater reward.
    A player, who is not flagged for pvp, can not contribute anything to their side in pvp. I think there should be a reward for helping your side in pvp. In heroic encounters, I noticied that my reward is greater if I do more fighting, than if I arrive at the end.

    I agree that a player should be rewarded for their contribution...
    But Not flagging PvP and not contributing to their side is not their fault. It is the games programming. The Devs made a conscience decision to do it that way. Which I feel is a mistake on their part.
    Inside zones which are specifically designed to be used for pvp, I prefer to discourage non-pvp'ers from loitering and farming. And likewise, I think pvp should be discouraged in places which are primarily intended to be pve. By "discourage", I mostly mean "less rewards". Nothing major.

    Here is where we disagree...
    That is why I say make it everywhere you can flag for PvP, and everywhere you can go without having to flag PvP. And no reduction of rewards.
    I think your view has merit and is easier to code. To me, it's not a huge deal exactly how much people are rewarded (or punished).
    Currently, in Icewind Pass, the difference between black ice nodes inside and outside pvp zones is approximately 30% (I could be wrong about this), which is not a big difference. 30% difference is fine with me.

    It makes no real diff to me either.
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • yarknarfyarknarf Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Again, that is great that you like doing that. But why punish me if I don't like don't that?

    I guess it's that you see yourself as being punished when I don't.

    The game offers many things.

    You knew there was a PvP element when you started to play.

    This is one of those elements.

    There will be more.

    Play the parts of the game you like, ignore the others.

    Am I being punished if I hate Sharandar or the foundry?
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    That is why I say make it everywhere you can flag for PvP, and everywhere you can go without having to flag PvP. And no reduction of rewards.

    Well I believe there should be different rewards for PVP and PVE.

    Otherwise, we should let fomorian and dread ring gear drop off of PVP domination matches if you want similar rewards
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    yarknarf wrote: »
    I guess it's that you see yourself as being punished when I don't.

    The game offers many things.

    You knew there was a PvP element when you started to play.

    This is one of those elements.

    There will be more.

    Play the parts of the game you like, ignore the others.

    Am I being punished if I hate Sharandar or the foundry?

    I am being punished if a node has more in it in a PvP area just because it is in a PvP area.
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    Well I believe there should be different rewards for PVP and PVE.

    Otherwise, we should let fomorian and dread ring gear drop off of PVP domination matches if you want similar rewards

    I am fine with "different" rewards for PvE and PvP. For instance PvP rewards could be something that helps in PvP, but does not help much if at all in PvE. And the opposite would be true for PvE rewards.
    What I do not like is getting more from a node just because it is in a PvP area.
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    The best idea! If i have a big mouth only pvp-er, i just invite him to join me in a dungeon, you guys surly guessed it, none of them took my invitation. I like some pvp too, but d&d is about dungeons as the name says, not pvp.

    If they made a full on pvp server I would so be there.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    I am fine with "different" rewards for PvE and PvP. For instance PvP rewards could be something that helps in PvP, but does not help much if at all in PvE. And the opposite would be true for PvE rewards.
    What I do not like is getting more from a node just because it is in a PvP area.

    You are more at risk if you are in the PVP area. Both PVPers and PVEers are susceptible to dying and always have to be on the lookout while in that zone.

    More risk = more reward
  • oddzoddz Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    how long do you even have to play the game before you get pvp 15k gs ? .. its like ewry ting is weak as hell monsters so ez unless in a dungeon then they Op monsters. DnD realistic well the where weary few really powerful adventures and heroes. and a bit more regular lvl 4 lvl 7 wizards/ priest and shuch adventures.. but ther whre a overpopulation of rogues in the diffrent citys . like shadow thifes. i know ?wth is a shadow thife well poor you you do not know.. well what i mean when other players complain about the gab of gs betwen pll its just like the real world i guess some suxs at ewry ting thay do like the communist
  • apocrs1980apocrs1980 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Silverstars Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    oddz wrote: »
    how long do you even have to play the game before you get pvp 15k gs ? .. its like ewry ting is weak as hell monsters so ez unless in a dungeon then they Op monsters. DnD realistic well the where weary few really powerful adventures and heroes. and a bit more regular lvl 4 lvl 7 wizards/ priest and shuch adventures.. but ther whre a overpopulation of rogues in the diffrent citys . like shadow thifes. i know ?wth is a shadow thife well poor you you do not know.. well what i mean when other players complain about the gab of gs betwen pll its just like the real world i guess some suxs at ewry ting thay do like the communist

    ?????...
    /10char
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA
    Ravenloft
    Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    You are more at risk if you are in the PVP area. Both PVPers and PVEers are susceptible to dying and always have to be on the lookout while in that zone.

    More risk = more reward

    So if you are in a large group of PvPers you should get a smaller reward? After all not as much risk being in a large group... Safety in numbers... Right? So anytime you are grouped with someone else your reward should be smaller. Or anytime you group for a dungeon run that is smaller the usual you should get a better reward? See how dumb that sounds?
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • yarknarfyarknarf Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I am being punished if a node has more in it in a PvP area just because it is in a PvP area.

    That's what I thought.

    So you want to get the rewards of the extra nodes in PvP but not have the danger.

    Why do you think the nodes are worth more? :D

    If I can farm nodes in PvP area with my gimptastic cleric who can't kill one single person you can manage it.

    If the enemy is in force then run back to the gate and switch instance.

    I can fully support ideas for improving the area - it needs improvement (or even to simply work properly)

    But saying that it's unfair in principle to have PvP rewards is poppycock.

    That's the same as PvPers complaining about rewards that are only available in dungeons.
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    yarknarf wrote: »
    That's what I thought.

    So you want to get the rewards of the extra nodes in PvP but not have the danger.

    Why do you think the nodes are worth more? :D

    If I can farm nodes in PvP area with my gimptastic cleric who can't kill one single person you can manage it.

    If the enemy is in force then run back to the gate and switch instance.

    I can fully support ideas for improving the area - it needs improvement (or even to simply work properly)

    But saying that it's unfair in principle to have PvP rewards is poppycock.

    That's the same as PvPers complaining about rewards that are only available in dungeons.

    Look at my post above... Danger is not always dangerous.

    And as I have stated... PvE rewards should help you in PvE, and not in PvP and PvP rewards should help you in PvP and not in PvE.
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    So if you are in a large group of PvPers you should get a smaller reward? After all not as much risk being in a large group... Safety in numbers... Right? So anytime you are grouped with someone else your reward should be smaller. Or anytime you group for a dungeon run that is smaller the usual you should get a better reward? See how dumb that sounds?

    If you are in a large group, doesn't that mean you have to compete with more people from your party on the black ice node? See how dumb that sounds?
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    If you are in a large group, doesn't that mean you have to compete with more people from your party on the black ice node? See how dumb that sounds?

    Actually no it doesn't. If you are in a party, you will usually take turns.

    Here is a question or two for you...
    1. Why do you need to have better nodes in PvP?
    2. Name a place where you get better nodes in PvE then the same node you get in in a PvP area?
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    Actually no it doesn't. If you are in a party, you will usually take turns.

    Here is a question or two for you...
    1. Why do you need to have better nodes in PvP?
    2. Name a place where you get better nodes in PvE then the same node you get in in a PvP area?

    A big group implies more than a party. If its just 5 people, they can be easily killed by a rival group.

    I can name dungeons and other PVE areas where you can get Fomorian/Dread Ring gear and also PVE/PVP boons.

    Name a PVP area where you can get Fomorian/Ancient/Dread Ring gear.
  • narayansinghnarayansingh Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 243 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    A big group implies more than a party. If its just 5 people, they can be easily killed by a rival group.

    I can name dungeons and other PVE areas where you can get Fomorian/Dread Ring gear and also PVE/PVP boons.

    Name a PVP area where you can get Fomorian/Ancient/Dread Ring gear.

    What does gear have to do with nodes? I stated better "nodes" not gear.
    Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
    Narayan
  • skalt112skalt112 Member Posts: 1,089 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    What does gear have to do with nodes? I stated better "nodes" not gear.

    For most of the game , there are no profession nodes in any pvp area. So as far as nodes go, pve is vastly superior. Only in one module is pvp a little better.
  • hamletswordshamletswords Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    1. Why do you need to have better nodes in PvP?

    More risk, more reward.

    You can group to mitigate the risk, but as mentioned, you will get less ice. And no, nobody takes turns on nodes in groups. LOL.
    My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    What does gear have to do with nodes? I stated better "nodes" not gear.

    Why do you single out nodes? So we ignore PVE-exclusive rewards? If you want to complain about PVP rewards being better, then let's talk about it equally.

    What about fomorian gear? How about we let fomorian and dread ring gear drop in PVP domination and open world pvp then we can increase the nodes in PVE areas

    Do you really want equality in rewards or do you just want more black ice nodes while not to going into the flagged areas?
  • hamletswordshamletswords Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    In any case, I'm still having a blast with this Open PVP. Had fun kiting a GF and GWF for about 5 minutes on my HR today.

    PLEASE MAKE THE DOMINATION HEROIC ENCOUNTER WORK!

    Just got to the new zone- Domination in a freaking forest?! YES PLEASE.
    My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
  • thestaggythestaggy Member Posts: 1,102 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2014
    In any case, I'm still having a blast with this Open PVP. Had fun kiting a GF and GWF for about 5 minutes on my HR today.

    PLEASE MAKE THE DOMINATION HEROIC ENCOUNTER WORK!

    Just got to the new zone- Domination in a freaking forest?! YES PLEASE.

    I was in there last night and domination was working.

    Wasn't too bad. Only a few of us but we had some fun until the Arcane Brotherhood's we kept on killing individually got smart and formed a supergroup, clearing the zone.
    PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
  • asthazarfasthazarf Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    About this open PvP thing... am I right to assume that you can stack tenacity and black ice resistance on your companions, and that they actually get augmented to you?
  • qq88ppqq88pp Member Posts: 143 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    A big group implies more than a party. If its just 5 people, they can be easily killed by a rival group.
    I can name dungeons and other PVE areas where you can get Fomorian/Dread Ring gear and also PVE/PVP boons.
    Name a PVP area where you can get Fomorian/Ancient/Dread Ring gear.
    There are people that prefer PvE.
    There are others who prefer PvP. The fact that I can not understand why they did choose this game for that game mode does not matter here.

    The best PvP weapons/Armor should be obtainable with luck through PvP,
    and DD should drop the best PvE weapons/gear with luck.

    As this seems to complicated the product management tries to force all players into the turf of the others, producing mischief on the forum and open attacks.
    It might be that they expect better sales through enticing all to go to "the other side". I don't know.
    It could be done, but it is as it is at the moment.
Sign In or Register to comment.