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Ninja Nerf or just bugged?
iaccidentally47
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Ok, so after a few days of playing mod3 on pretty much every class, I feel like my CW is much weaker than she was last week. I parsed pretty much everything I did (with ACT), and found some interesting/worrying results. I compared these with parses I did last week (same gear, if anything my CW is slightly better geared now). Here is what I found:
1) My CW is not hitting any harder than before, despite the power rework (all my other characters have noticeably higher hits). I tested this on dummies and on some standard solo content and dungeon runs. With about 5k power, I should be seeing a little more damage, but this does not seem to be the case.
2) My AP gain seems to be slower. This one is kind of hard to confirm and test, but normally my daily would be up in 2-3 rotations, and now it usually takes 3-4. It is possible this is purely coincidental, but it does seem slower and a few others I talked to seemed to agree.
3) Life steal does not seem to be working the same anymore. My character sheet shows that I have 12% damage gained as hit points, however, the log shows me only gaining 6-8% of my damage as hp. This is a huge survivability loss for me. Others I talked to found similar results.
4) The mobs hit harder. It seems that the power changes also affected mobs as well. According to my parses, blademasters in ToS are hitting me 60% harder than they did last week.
5) (known bug) Shard is broken.
6) The High Vizier set bonus does not seem to proc in dungeons. I was able to get it to work on dummies, but I never saw it up in any dungeon run. Need to test this further.
Has anyone experienced similar results? If this is true and not just bugs, we may see a pretty big change in CW meta. We will need to be tankier and less reliant on life steal.
1) My CW is not hitting any harder than before, despite the power rework (all my other characters have noticeably higher hits). I tested this on dummies and on some standard solo content and dungeon runs. With about 5k power, I should be seeing a little more damage, but this does not seem to be the case.
2) My AP gain seems to be slower. This one is kind of hard to confirm and test, but normally my daily would be up in 2-3 rotations, and now it usually takes 3-4. It is possible this is purely coincidental, but it does seem slower and a few others I talked to seemed to agree.
3) Life steal does not seem to be working the same anymore. My character sheet shows that I have 12% damage gained as hit points, however, the log shows me only gaining 6-8% of my damage as hp. This is a huge survivability loss for me. Others I talked to found similar results.
4) The mobs hit harder. It seems that the power changes also affected mobs as well. According to my parses, blademasters in ToS are hitting me 60% harder than they did last week.
5) (known bug) Shard is broken.
6) The High Vizier set bonus does not seem to proc in dungeons. I was able to get it to work on dummies, but I never saw it up in any dungeon run. Need to test this further.
Has anyone experienced similar results? If this is true and not just bugs, we may see a pretty big change in CW meta. We will need to be tankier and less reliant on life steal.
Miss Anthropy - 15.7k CW | Miss Andrist - 19k GWF | DC (14.5k) | TR (14.5k) | HR(14k) | GF(15.5k)
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
GWF guide: click me
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
GWF guide: click me
Post edited by iaccidentally47 on
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Lifesteal does not appear to be functioning correctly anymore. Whether the single target version or the multi-target version. Something is either broken entirely, or there's a serious problem.
Your CW should see some damage increases with Power, BUT... it is dependent upon the gear you have. The way they reworked it, means the higher your gear score base for Power, the more it will do. So you'll have to check your power level and weapon.
I am noticing an increase with a 7100 power. I don't know what your gear is so I can't be sure how much you're affected. The lowbies will not get as much out of this as the higher powered people.
I don't know or have tested with High Viz, so I don't know if any adjustments have been made.
It is interesting to speculate that it's a ninja nerf to improve the desirability of tanks, but as the GWF can fill that role as well as or better than a GF, that seems pointless. Also, if such were the intent of a change, it would make more sense if they advertised it.
I have felt squishier over in Live, but the char I have on live is not nearly as strong as the character I have on Preview.
On Preview you don't notice these things because the mobs seem to move slower over there. On live they are closing much faster than they do over there for some reason.
I suspect this is actually affecting ALL classes, not just CWs. We just notice it more because we're much squishier than other classes, so we'll feel it much more acutely.
Further notes are over in the Bugs Forum Folder on shard sticking on terrain (great fun that, will get you killed).
I also noted the LS issues (much more fragile - 1.9k def, 1.0 ls with endless consumption).
Also firing off steal time on the testing dummies was only giving 1 stack of defense (yet 3 dummies are hit by the steal time).
I think there's a rework around control bonus/resist so some of our control are less effective.
That's just it. There are lots of things that are not in the patch notes that are 100% happening. I noted which ones were "I feel like" or could not be properly tested and confirmed. None of this is in the patch notes, so its either a bug or an undocumented change.
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
GWF guide: click me
I do know its less effective on mobs over there, they do have some control resist. Singularity does not work very well there so I've had to use a lot of Oppressive Force.
That has been the case since testing in Preview. The durations of it is much shorter. They work, but only for about half as long.
Truth be told didnt notice a thing other then the meatball getting stuck from time to time..
Why? Because Im also doing my DC, and CWs seem like semi quasi gods in comparison. That doesnt mean I want CW nerfs.. I want my DC giving some rework.. its ghastly how terribad they are in doing these dailies.. its literally twice the time if not more.
In fact, I don't mind any change (buff/nerf/what ever).
But I could be interesting, with the class balanced that have been announced, to know if these change are just feeling, mechanics change (like for power) or if some power have been tweaked stealthy.
Actually, having Sing to be less effective isn't that bad as I give GF and DC much more importance.
Well for the record,
I have always been hit very very hard by the IWD mobs, some of the Epic encounters can even one shot me. So for us being weaker physically or armor wise, I've never known anything BUT that in IWD. So its hard for me to say something has changed. The mobs in IWD are doing Black Ice Damage and have always hit a ton.
They also have charge attacks and close the distance very quickly, and there are a significant amount of distance damagers that do a large amount of damage. So the reality is, I do not know if we've actually been nerfed in that way because the mobs hit so hard its difficult to tell whether its actually a "Stealth Nerf".
But IF that were the case then this would be appropriate for a Wizard.
Personal Opinion: I've always felt we were overly tanky for a mage class in comparison to other classes. Most of them have the same basic Health as we do. In D&D we should have roughly HALF the health of the Fighter classes. Its the reason our magic is so strong. That does not play itself out in this game as well as it should.... IWD balances this part well and you will feel it as a mage.... you will be... an actual mage. Not a Tank/Mage. This is REALLY what causes most of the problems in the game.
Yes... we're really supposed to have that much power and damage... but there's supposed to be a trade off... in this game... you're not trading much off. We SHOULD have about half the health of the tank classes. So should rogues, but I digress even if they had about 2/3rds the health it would be fine.
Rangers should be about the same HEALTH as the tank classes, but weaker defenses. Honestly this is REALLY what causes most of these issues. Clerics should have similar health and defense, but weaker attacks.
Frankly we've got way too much health in comparison to a Fighter Class. If there was something to nerf, it would be that. So they got it right in IWD.
Singularity has been slowly getting less and less effective the longer the game goes on. And its not because they're nerfing the spelll, but rather they're nerfing the content.
All targets that have control resistence, also resist singularity. Ergo... anything not affected by your entangle, likely won't be affected by your singularity. This is also the case in IWD. You can see this more and more the higher you go. VT even throws mobs at you that are unaffected by Singularity, IWD is doing it too.
So this spell is starting to become less and less effective the more content comes out.
+ how control bonus/resist work with power, resulting in control resist being more effective on some spell or less effective on other. Did you try Repel recently? But it can also come from pet's active bonus and the lack of tenacity gear.
+ change of the mobs to be less control friendly.
Not completely OK with this.
We have some good pool HP but low mitigation, partly because of our low CA. Mage tanking capability came from the ability to keep mobs from hit the mage. By control use. Now that mobs are less control friendly, CW tank capability have take a big hit in the knee.
If you want a tanky mage, just check Purified gear. With the whole set, every class willl be a tank.Very huge defence, big HP poll, Shield on proc, temporary HP on proc, heal on proc.
But even in full Corrupted, Power is traded into defensive stat compared to T2/T2.5. From my first shoot at BiS gear, I'm around 6.5k Power when T2 is near 8k. For equivalent GS.
It's to note that all of this is without counting on Black Ice empowerment. With it, stat will be a lot better. And A feat like prestidigitation will be a must have.
I have to work more on it as Crit is a lot less interesting than Power now. I don't know good number but 2.5k/3k look like a good numbers. I will also look into some more balanced stat with less Charisma and more Wisdom for control resist/bonus buff.
I understand why you're not comfortable with it.
But the reality is, the reason mages have so much power in D&D is because they really are that fragile. They can't wear armor and only have robes. And they have really low hit points.
In real D&D the Wizard will have up to 40 hit points at 10th level.... and a Fighter will have up to 100 hit points. And that doesn't even get into the Actual Armor Class which is disgustingly higher on a fighter. Now the mage will have certain spells like Shield an Stoneskin, which can make him harder to hit or actually invulnerable for a space of time. But the reality is, he's got almost no hit points OR armor class.
Trust me we've actually got it much better here.
So if the devs are moving in this direction is actually appropriate and fitting.
In IWD..... they seem to have adjusted the mobs and their damage to about this level in comparison on us.... and if the parces of the OP are correct, we're actually getting hit a lot harder EVEN in the older areas.
So this kind of an Adjustment is actually appropriate for the class... adjustments to any kind of mage damage... is not... the class is supposed to be doing this kind of damage..... but..... its also supposed to "feel" that weak.
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
GWF guide: click me
I didn't notice anything at all changed on my mage. If shard is bugging out for you then that no doubt accounts for all those little things you think are stealth nerfed. It's shocking how much everything the CW has is pretty much centered around Shard; if anything at all goes wrong with it the whole class comes crumbling down.
Its the big Kahuna of our Encounter powers. So obviously it would get relied on a lot as its out highest level spell. But in this case it really is getting stuck in the terrain. I can confirm that from when I was testing on Preview.
I personally tend to use more of a mix and not one thing specifically, I prefer Sudden Storm to it on the Spellstorm side, and Fanning the Flames to it on the MoF side. But I do know the majority of players will tend to build around the highest level spells.
It's a bit silly, really.
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
GWF guide: click me
Don't worry... I actually believe you, I think your parces are accurate.
I suspect the power rework also affected Mobs, so suddenly there are some that are doing a lot more damage than they did prior. Even In the old world.
CW generally have far lower power than other classes are able to achieve, which might account for why you aren't seeing as big of an increase with your 5k compared to another classes 8k+. Also, most CW spells do less overall damage than comparable encounters in say GWF, HR, or even TR which also might help account for this. (At least as far as base damage values are concerned.)
I know for a fact that you claim to be able to parse your AP just because I recognize your character names from the legit channel. I have noticed no difference in AP gain, but as you rightly point out here AP gain/loss is virtually impossible to parse. I find it difficult to take you seriously because of the fact that you claimed to have conclusive parse proof, but that's just me.
It's possible, but the math on that is incredibly easy to know for a fact one way or the other. Hit a training dummy when you're low on health and see if your lifesteal on one strike is 12% or not. Any one actual combat log entry should tell you instantly if this is true. (Although I will say that I have not parsed it, it doesn't feel any worse than it did before.)
I'd say you're probably right on this one, which is why it seems like your lifesteal isn't doing as much. You're taking more damage, making it harder for your 12% to offset damage taken.
For what it's worth, I haven't had shard glitch out even once since Module 3 dropped whereas before it glitched out at least once per dungeon. It is no longer giving one buff stack of HV set though, at least it didn't appear to after testing for about two minute's on some dummies. Every other ability I tested is still giving HV stacks as normal, with tabbed EF still giving it's 3 buff stacks. (Which, when I told you this in legit, your responce was that you tested all the abilities and they were all broken. Again, hard to take you seriously.)
Yes it is having issues with getting stuck in Terrain, which has resulted in the deaths of several mages. BUT its only in Icewind Dale at present, it functions normally in all other areas.
This tells me there are some pathing issues regarding it.
But that's where the issue is and where its broken. It doesn't happen all the time, but certain areas inside of the Heroic Encounter spots it will get hitched in the terrain and not move even after pushing it multiple times.
So it is bugged there.
That explains a lot, thanks Silver! I was legitimately confused about why I hadn't seen it happen yet.
Emeril ~ PvP HR
Actually I noticed no difference at all in that one.
I had been using Spellstorm on both Live and the later Days of Preview. I was critting just as often as before. And Nightmare Wizardry was also procing just as often as was my Active Bonus for the Wild Hunt companion.
I actually noticed a serious increase in damage on most of my Burst damage spells. But then again I am working with about a 7k power.
I switched to MoF after one day of play with Spellstorm, so do not have extended testing, but noticed no difference with my Spellstorm.
But then again I was not directly testing either.
EDIT: In fact the Agro was so bad I had to go out and buy an Owl Pet for active bonus to try to keep it down.
In game combat log tab only shows some stats like damage, but the actual combat log file contains information such as location, damage and AP gain in a number string. For example
We can parse the exact AP gain from each encounter or ability via the Power Replenish column in ACT. A copy of one such log is shown here:
In the example shown the 'Damage' is actually the AP gained from that ability. By looking at the average column you can determine the AP gain of an encounter/at Will. The unit given is 10 basis points. To convert that to AP gained % just divide by 10.
For example Steal Time gain is around 12.3% per cast, Shard (gain power) about 11.2%, CoI about 10%, Sudden Storm about 5.6%. Note these values are specific to my character and my AP gain stat. They will vary a bit on your own setup.
We know these numbers to be accurate and reliable because they concur with rounded off values from in game AP meter. They also do interact with +AP gain artifacts and feats and also the relevant class stat (for CW it's WIS).
For what it's worth I checked old logs and the AP gain of the common CW encounters I use remain the same in module 2 and module 3. Despite that, I still agree overall AP gain feels a bit slower in module 3 without concrete numbers proof even taking Storm Pillar out of the equation. Will keep investigating.
Details on downloading ACT and NW plugin are here:
http://laggygamerz.com/forum/index.php?/topic/13-advanced-combat-tracker-neverwinter/
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