I am pretty sure the elo takes individual scores into account.
This is something to think about. I'll try to play some matches, a few where I will try to cap everything ignoring fighting, defending and contesting to have the best score, and see what happens with matchmaking, and then will only contest without capping to get the lowest score and see what happens.
Premade is the only true way to measure Mah'Jong, I mean ELO.
You just need to make sure you play with the same 4 friends every match.
Yep, you can see the elo in action that way. You end up against giants and have your build, your gear, and your ability tested to the limit. There are some epic matches. IMO we so desperately need a league for people to compete in and a que for casual pvper's to pug in.
This is something to think about. I'll try to play some matches, a few where I will try to cap everything ignoring fighting, defending and contesting to have the best score, and see what happens with matchmaking, and then will only contest without capping to get the lowest score and see what happens.
I am curious of the results, please share. I really think that the elo puts a certain value on win/loss ratio and a certain value on points scored in a game. So if you win almost every match without topping the scoreboard you end up in teams with people who have lost almost every match but have topped the scoreboard.
I've gotten to the point where I'll troll the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of my own team if they are being blatantly stupid. The answer seems to be to just join a guild and do all premades, and that does work, but guild vs guild premade matches are almost a different game entirely than pug vs pugs, especially ones involving the better guilds. You feel you went from batting around preschoolers to playing in the nfl.
After a few tough premades I'll say that I don't mind solo q to get some easy matches. Even if it's a "carry your team" type of match, it's still easy. I can kinda run around and do what I want, if I miss an encounter during a 1v1 on a node....meh, no big deal, it'll still work out(no, I don't pug stomp, I sit out if we're rollin' them too hard).
Of course, solo q doesn't always work out as a break... as your team shows up at the start you notice 3 or 4 players from the same guild (now we are a premade). Hmmm, let's check some gear scores, oh, that's nice...couple of 10k's (or worse). Well, let's hit "x" and see if I recognize any names...
After a few tough premades I'll say that I don't mind solo q to get some easy matches. Even if it's a "carry your team" type of match, it's still easy. I can kinda run around and do what I want, if I miss an encounter during a 1v1 on a node....meh, no big deal, it'll still work out(no, I don't pug stomp, I sit out if we're rollin' them too hard).
Of course, solo q doesn't always work out as a break... as your team shows up at the start you notice 3 or 4 players from the same guild (now we are a premade). Hmmm, let's check some gear scores, oh, that's nice...couple of 10k's (or worse). Well, let's hit "x" and see if I recognize any names...
****, this is gonna hurt...so much for the break.
lol yep. It is fun to kill an entire other team by yourself when you have a crappy team and are fighting a crappy team. It is not fun to face a partial premade or a competent pug group when you have a crappy team. It is also trying when the only competent player on the other team has scrubs that are listening to them and your scrubs are ignoring you. The fact that the last sentence there is so apt is really funny to me and part of what makes neverwinter pvp fun. Fun but often frustrating.
As I said, I've tried to figure out if the personal score impacts matchmaking. I played 3 games trying to be on the first place. Every match was pure random. Then I played 3 matches being at the bottom. The more matches I played scoring almost the last place, the better teammates I had in the next match while my enemies were becoming better as well. But then, after 3 wins in a row (first two matches were 1000/567, 1000/436; third was 1000/869, we barely managed to win against 2 gwf's and 2 perma tr's), I've got into match of all below 8k GS players and me, 12k cleric, against 4 man premade with perfects. So, there's no elo, amirite?
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
IIRC when ELO was announced it was described as assigning you ranking points for winning that were dependent on the ranking points of your opponents. So if you narrowly beat a team of similar ranked players you get more ranking points than if you roflstomp a bunch of low ranked players. I think losing was similarly scaled. The idea being that everything should even out over time.
I don't think personal score was ever mentioned - just wins and losses.
I have long suspected that the match maker tries to match teams by mean average ELO, without much "bracketing" to control the variance between the players.
It really feels like the better you get, the more likely it is that pugging means getting teams full of blue-clad rentapony ROFLcopters who don't seem to know what points are, and thus who are used to losing. Take one of your non-PvP characters out for a spin, and you're likely to get some good players in your team, as "ELO suppliers".
If it is indeed what is happening, then I suppose the matchmaker needs to avoid mixing very high or very low individuals too often. I know this would slow down queueing, but maybe if there was a crude division into hidden ELO "bands" of players from score X-Y, the band above being Y-Z etc.. Looking at the members of the same band first, and then searching a band above and below for ways to match, widening the match criteria with a tunable timeout value fed from instrumented queue times.. would seem to be the way to go.
Maybe this is already happening, though- maybe it's so sparse that all brakes have been turned right down otherwise no-one but premades would never get in?
Think the fine people in this thread nailed it. I pvp often and usually get teamed with players with lower skill levels. It makes things a little harder for me others like me that just want to battle with our peers. Even worse for me is i use high general set as none of the pvp sets work for my build. So if i have carry the team against multiple GWFs or CWs, we are probably going down hard. Its hard out here for a tank.
The elo is semi functional when you play with your same team but otherwise there's no elo ranking when you pug, the game puts you with anyone. Remember when they had one? They couldn't give an appropriate queue time. They reversed it and PvP is just what it was a year ago, just with tenacity added.
The elo is semi functional when you play with your same team but otherwise there's no elo ranking when you pug, the game puts you with anyone. Remember when they had one? They couldn't give an appropriate queue time. They reversed it and PvP is just what it was a year ago, just with tenacity added.
Yes, that does seem to be a fair assessment. Well said.
It's probably heretical, but I quite like tenacity. However, I am enjoying the weird ELO behaviour less.
I can't say that I've played PvP a lot, however I always checked the GS of my teammates and the opponents.
They main key to victory (cliche alert) is teamwork. Still, that means nothing if we're 4 CWs approx 11kgs and 1TR 9kgs against 3 GWF15+kgs, 1TR12kgs and 1CW15.6kgs. To defeat a solitary, single tanky char like GWF we needed to be present together, however a single CW against a GWF + TR + a CW who waits at the back is a no-go.
The matches, clearly, aren't balanced and most of the times it's just GO OUT all of it, kill asap, target asap and rush the next point a,b,c, beware of the backdoor attacks, beware of the split-attacks et cetera.
What's progressively unfair is the fact that some characters are simply faster (have a better mount) and are able to own us without any difficulty.
In most cases my teammates (especially HRs) leave the group and we end up fighting 3v5 match, waiting at the spawn, being bombarded occasionally as well as the target for mockery from those who're clearly much stronger (nabz l2p ftw nwn), while on the mic a french woman starts yelling something, I dunno.
Which is why I don't do PvP. I think it's irrational to do so without a proper team and an active VoIP communication, preferably someone who's well versed and trained in PvP alone.
I'm not saying that PvP sux, however it could use a better system but I'm afraid that I don't know what can be done about that without some serious patching effort and some adequate thought put into the product. From the BETA NWN grew exponentially in terms of patches.
I'd also like that some of that DD event lag also drops, but I'm familiar with the stress that goes for the server itself at the time.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
The elo is semi functional when you play with your same team but otherwise there's no elo ranking when you pug, the game puts you with anyone. Remember when they had one? They couldn't give an appropriate queue time. They reversed it and PvP is just what it was a year ago, just with tenacity added.
I have to disagree. Prior to the patch I would quite often end up in a one-sided roflstomp and have opposing teams comprising premades and/or some of the top level players. Now I rarely - if ever - see a premade and the number of one-sided matches has gone down by around 80-90%
Something is different, whether ELO is operating as advertised or not.
"The PvP Domination queue attempts to match you with other players that are at a similar skill rating."
Ok, so lets say as an example my score is 2000. In order to find 10 people to make a match the queue matches people between a score of 1800 and 2400, lets say we have 2 people at 1800, 6 people at 2000 and 2 people at 2400. Do the 2 people at 2400 get split up and put on opposite teams to balance the match out, or does everyone in that range just get randomly matched up without regard to total group score?
akro, thanks for the link! The matching based on personal score theory is just a way to try and speculate why players who know what to do in pvp are often matched with those who dont. I am speaking even strictly about things like fighting on node when it is red dominant, off node when it is blue dominant, 4 to mid and 1 to home at start, when losing/most nodes are red not getting into stupid skirmishes away from nodes (aka being kited), or when winning/most nodes are blue, kiting the enemy away from the nodes and aggroing them into fights well away from your blue nodes.
It really seems like the more I play for the win, the worse is the team I get, the more I play for just kills/personal scor4e, the better is the team I get.
They cannot really take into account gear-score very easily. People would just remove their items, queue with a 6k gs, then put the good gear back on once they load into the map.
It really doesn't. It's terminally light on details, and doesn't address the perception that solo queuing with a higher ELO tends to put you in a team of bewildered rentapony ROFLcopters. It seems that the game may be trying to build teams based on mean team ELO or similar.
Observation does seem to bear this out- characters who don't PvP much often get team mates with high tenacity and experience levels, moderate PvP characters tend towards being grouped with peers, and strong characters are often grouped with paper ROFLcopters. Whether the mean average of ELO across the team is what is causing this, or the behaviour is an emergent property of other mechanics makes less difference than you might imagine. The fact that it acts as though this is the cause means that something is out of whack. Maybe this is a fallback behaviour, when it can't group players of similar ELO, but if so, it's in fallback mode an awful lot.
So no, that very brief detail-free fluff page doesn't help. However, thanks for the kind thought
They cannot really take into account gear-score very easily. People would just remove their items, queue with a 6k gs, then put the good gear back on once they load into the map.
The fix for that is you can't change gear after you que. IMO all pvp quing could take place only in "trade of blades" type zones in every area and equipment could not be swapped out in these zones. Really I'd love to see an actual arena in each area and to pvp you enter the arena.
Comments
You just need to make sure you play with the same 4 friends every match.
Get a team of rank 10s + elblems teammate.
Then crush everything you see, enjoy FREELO.
A more simple version could be: get a 4 GWF or 4 TR team together. You would mentally destroy enemy team before the game even begins.
This is something to think about. I'll try to play some matches, a few where I will try to cap everything ignoring fighting, defending and contesting to have the best score, and see what happens with matchmaking, and then will only contest without capping to get the lowest score and see what happens.
I smiled and then got sad because this is so true.
Yep, you can see the elo in action that way. You end up against giants and have your build, your gear, and your ability tested to the limit. There are some epic matches. IMO we so desperately need a league for people to compete in and a que for casual pvper's to pug in.
Jugger Conq GF
....
I am curious of the results, please share. I really think that the elo puts a certain value on win/loss ratio and a certain value on points scored in a game. So if you win almost every match without topping the scoreboard you end up in teams with people who have lost almost every match but have topped the scoreboard.
Jugger Conq GF
....
After a few tough premades I'll say that I don't mind solo q to get some easy matches. Even if it's a "carry your team" type of match, it's still easy. I can kinda run around and do what I want, if I miss an encounter during a 1v1 on a node....meh, no big deal, it'll still work out(no, I don't pug stomp, I sit out if we're rollin' them too hard).
Of course, solo q doesn't always work out as a break... as your team shows up at the start you notice 3 or 4 players from the same guild (now we are a premade). Hmmm, let's check some gear scores, oh, that's nice...couple of 10k's (or worse). Well, let's hit "x" and see if I recognize any names...
****, this is gonna hurt...so much for the break.
lol yep. It is fun to kill an entire other team by yourself when you have a crappy team and are fighting a crappy team. It is not fun to face a partial premade or a competent pug group when you have a crappy team. It is also trying when the only competent player on the other team has scrubs that are listening to them and your scrubs are ignoring you. The fact that the last sentence there is so apt is really funny to me and part of what makes neverwinter pvp fun. Fun but often frustrating.
Jugger Conq GF
....
I don't think personal score was ever mentioned - just wins and losses.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I have long suspected that the match maker tries to match teams by mean average ELO, without much "bracketing" to control the variance between the players.
It really feels like the better you get, the more likely it is that pugging means getting teams full of blue-clad rentapony ROFLcopters who don't seem to know what points are, and thus who are used to losing. Take one of your non-PvP characters out for a spin, and you're likely to get some good players in your team, as "ELO suppliers".
If it is indeed what is happening, then I suppose the matchmaker needs to avoid mixing very high or very low individuals too often. I know this would slow down queueing, but maybe if there was a crude division into hidden ELO "bands" of players from score X-Y, the band above being Y-Z etc.. Looking at the members of the same band first, and then searching a band above and below for ways to match, widening the match criteria with a tunable timeout value fed from instrumented queue times.. would seem to be the way to go.
Maybe this is already happening, though- maybe it's so sparse that all brakes have been turned right down otherwise no-one but premades would never get in?
Either way, kitten is sad.
Yes, that does seem to be a fair assessment. Well said.
It's probably heretical, but I quite like tenacity. However, I am enjoying the weird ELO behaviour less.
They main key to victory (cliche alert) is teamwork. Still, that means nothing if we're 4 CWs approx 11kgs and 1TR 9kgs against 3 GWF15+kgs, 1TR12kgs and 1CW15.6kgs. To defeat a solitary, single tanky char like GWF we needed to be present together, however a single CW against a GWF + TR + a CW who waits at the back is a no-go.
The matches, clearly, aren't balanced and most of the times it's just GO OUT all of it, kill asap, target asap and rush the next point a,b,c, beware of the backdoor attacks, beware of the split-attacks et cetera.
What's progressively unfair is the fact that some characters are simply faster (have a better mount) and are able to own us without any difficulty.
In most cases my teammates (especially HRs) leave the group and we end up fighting 3v5 match, waiting at the spawn, being bombarded occasionally as well as the target for mockery from those who're clearly much stronger (nabz l2p ftw nwn), while on the mic a french woman starts yelling something, I dunno.
Which is why I don't do PvP. I think it's irrational to do so without a proper team and an active VoIP communication, preferably someone who's well versed and trained in PvP alone.
I'm not saying that PvP sux, however it could use a better system but I'm afraid that I don't know what can be done about that without some serious patching effort and some adequate thought put into the product. From the BETA NWN grew exponentially in terms of patches.
I'd also like that some of that DD event lag also drops, but I'm familiar with the stress that goes for the server itself at the time.
Something is different, whether ELO is operating as advertised or not.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I came across this thread and thought I'd link you all to this:
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/neverwinter/detail/3033863-pvp-improvements%3A-matchmaking-%26-penalties
Hope this clears some things up
Ok, so lets say as an example my score is 2000. In order to find 10 people to make a match the queue matches people between a score of 1800 and 2400, lets say we have 2 people at 1800, 6 people at 2000 and 2 people at 2400. Do the 2 people at 2400 get split up and put on opposite teams to balance the match out, or does everyone in that range just get randomly matched up without regard to total group score?
It really seems like the more I play for the win, the worse is the team I get, the more I play for just kills/personal scor4e, the better is the team I get.
Jugger Conq GF
....
It really doesn't. It's terminally light on details, and doesn't address the perception that solo queuing with a higher ELO tends to put you in a team of bewildered rentapony ROFLcopters. It seems that the game may be trying to build teams based on mean team ELO or similar.
Observation does seem to bear this out- characters who don't PvP much often get team mates with high tenacity and experience levels, moderate PvP characters tend towards being grouped with peers, and strong characters are often grouped with paper ROFLcopters. Whether the mean average of ELO across the team is what is causing this, or the behaviour is an emergent property of other mechanics makes less difference than you might imagine. The fact that it acts as though this is the cause means that something is out of whack. Maybe this is a fallback behaviour, when it can't group players of similar ELO, but if so, it's in fallback mode an awful lot.
So no, that very brief detail-free fluff page doesn't help. However, thanks for the kind thought
The fix for that is you can't change gear after you que. IMO all pvp quing could take place only in "trade of blades" type zones in every area and equipment could not be swapped out in these zones. Really I'd love to see an actual arena in each area and to pvp you enter the arena.
Jugger Conq GF
....