And how exactly are you going to "spam" a Daily? Huh?
Well, the new Cleric Artifact would be a great way to do it. It replenishes 100% of your AP gain over 15 seconds, and any TR with a Cleric alt will have access to it.
Anvil of Doom for GF's is supposed to be the same thing but it is craptastic in comparison. I seldom see a GF kill somebody when using AoD. If AoD were buffed to match the entire pvp community would be crying "NERF GF's" but TR's and GWF's are the Golden Boys and heaven forbid they come down to the levels of the other classes.
HAMSTER, level 60 GF, "Bloodthirsty" since Mod 2 Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
And how exactly are you going to "spam" a Daily? Huh?
Right...
OMG Someone could actually *shock* *boggle* die in PvP!!!
The real question you should be asking yourself isn't whether to nerf it. It's asking why in the hell everyone else's dailys aren't able to kill people being they are "supposedly" the major build up to a big kahuna of techniques...
The other classes' dailies do similar damage. You want to know the difference? All other dailies (except for another TR daily, Whirlwind of Blades) are 1) affected by mitigation and 2) dodge-able. There are some outlying cases of encounters that aren't able to be dodged (Icy Rays) or affects that go through immunities (any "Daze" and Terrifying Impact, a GF daily).
The other classes' dailies do similar damage. You want to know the difference? All other dailies (except for another TR daily, Whirlwind of Blades) are 1) affected by mitigation and 2) dodge-able. There are some outlying cases of encounters that aren't able to be dodged (Icy Rays) or affects that go through immunities (any "Daze" and Terrifying Impact, a GF daily).
And HOW exactly does that change anything I said...
What the hell is the point of a Daily power you spend tons of time building up... for a super powered hit...
Only to see it go... *squeek*. What the hell kind of Wuss PVP are you wanting? Are you afraid of having your "feelings hurt" because someone elses daily power actually killed you?
So... the question again... why exactly are you asking for a Daily to be nerfed... when the REAL thing you should be asking is why other classes dailys aren't doing that. Because that's the whole point of a daily is a super powered strike you built up to. Otherwise... whats the point of even having a daily power.
Anvil of Doom for GF's is supposed to be the same thing but it is craptastic in comparison. I seldom see a GF kill somebody when using AoD. If AoD were buffed to match the entire pvp community would be crying "NERF GF's" but TR's and GWF's are the Golden Boys and heaven forbid they come down to the levels of the other classes.
Anvil NEVER leaves my rotation and it is how I get 50% of my kills. I purposely use it as the closer in my rotation.
Also, Anvil is an encounter, so yes, people will be crapping themselves if GFs were one-shotting you with an encounter on 12-14 second cooldown.
I
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
This again? Didn't someone provide figures in another thread proving that the more fantastic tales of SE damage were pretty much made up?
I regularly survive SE on all three toons if I'm over 50-60% HP. I've never been one-shotted or anything near when at full health. And it's getting a base damage nerf in Mod 3.
On Youtube there is a well known video of a german kid smashing his keyboard after meeting network difficulties to connect to his MMORPG, and then dieing in pvp in a matter of seconds.
Stupid people still make excuses for SE? rofl, of course they are, although I bet 99% of them are TR's who enjoy easy mode and don't want it to be taken away from them.
Last night I was in a game vs a team of bad/low geared players and they had nothing on me, I was too tanky to die from anyone of them.
Well, I did die twice. Both times from the same crappy TR who SE me from 70% hp for 25k both times. Undodgable 1 hit kill in PvP? It's a joke and it's awkward as hell do see people try and defend it.
Stupid people still make excuses for SE? rofl, of course they are, although I bet 99% of them are TR's who enjoy easy mode and don't want it to be taken away from them.
Last night I was in a game vs a team of bad/low geared players and they had nothing on me, I was too tanky to die from anyone of them.
Well, I did die twice. Both times from the same crappy TR who SE me from 70% hp for 25k both times. Undodgable 1 hit kill in PvP? It's a joke and it's awkward as hell do see people try and defend it.
Funny, I was in PvP last night and got hit by a few SE strikes at high HP and didn't die once. Only times I dies I was at, like, 40% HP or so.
Anyway - SE is nerfed in Mod 3 so you can all stop crying now.
Funny, I was in PvP last night and got hit by a few SE strikes at high HP and didn't die once. Only times I dies I was at, like, 40% HP or so.
Anyway - SE is nerfed in Mod 3 so you can all stop crying now.
I fail to see how that is funny. I have been 1 hit killed from full hp by 30k+ SE as well. Not sure how pointing out how broken something is can be considered "crying". Should we just accept that one class has something silly OP and do nothing about it?
One would think that balance among classes should be prio 1 for everyone. But this game is notorious for having kids who only want the cheese/OP no matter what. Sad..
I think Shocking Execution should be 1 hit KO skill but animation should be long like 2-3 seconds and cooldown about 3 minutes, also it should be dodgeable.
Devs forced rogues to go recovery,recharge speed as well as perma, also spend money to change out enchants.People complained about lashing so they took it away, people complained about impact shot so they took that away no more burst damage to those skills less your gear sucks and many other skills were nerfed. Shocking and stealth both only best things at most for rogues less you have a experianced player who can counter it.
People stop complaining you asked for change and devs gave you change and now you complain more. How bout we nerf TR's til you can not call them TR/Rogues....
Devs forced rogues to go recovery,recharge speed as well as perma, also spend money to change out enchants.People complained about lashing so they took it away, people complained about impact shot so they took that away no more burst damage to those skills less your gear sucks and many other skills were nerfed. Shocking and stealth both only best things at most for rogues less you have a experianced player who can counter it.
People stop complaining you asked for change and devs gave you change and now you complain more. How bout we nerf TR's til you can not call them TR/Rogues....
If this is directed towards me, the OP. Then please go, because you have the reading comprehension of a potato. I'm not complaining. If your post is directed towards the people comlaining is general, then I don't blame them.
I'm a rogue and still think Shocking is BS. IT SHOULD stay like this damage wise but should be DODGABLE. We already got stepped on too much by the Lurker's assault, Lashing Blade and Impact shot nerfs. But Shocking Exeuction has been broken for months, even over a year I think.
The few experiences i got on preview with module 3 are that SE still hits like a truck and kills you at around 25% HP, but above that value, for example at 50% HP, it hits a lot less hard. Can't confirm BTW.
Being able to take down a tank at 25% HP is enough for a daily. 50% HP or full health kills are nonsense for any class, and i think anyone would agree about this.
To the ones complaining about TR nerfs: TRs in PvP are strong, stop complaining and fooling yourselves saying poor TRs got nerfed too much. Right now, hybrid perma TRs with bilethorn are up there with sentinel tank Iron Vanguards and strong HRs.
Each one of these classes have a build needed to be competitive in PvP. IV sentinel tank for GWF, for example. For TR, it's hybrid permastealth with bilethorn/ PoB whatever it is. And it's a very, very VERY strong build, very hard to face even for experienced PvPers.
I see more and more of these guys being able to consistently shift the balance of a pug match trolling multiple enemies on their base point.
You were not overnerfed, you are not a poor weak PvP class. TRs in their current state are a STRONG class for PvP, if not the strongest, when well built and used. Period.
I fail to see how that is funny. I have been 1 hit killed from full hp by 30k+ SE as well. Not sure how pointing out how broken something is can be considered "crying". Should we just accept that one class has something silly OP and do nothing about it?
My point was that for all the stories of SE one-shotting people from 100% HP many of us simply don't experience that behaviour. At all. Maybe we're just incredibly lucky?
where did you read about this nerf? im on the preview and nothing seems changed
It was in a post from a dev that I can't track down. Base damage reduced by 30% and the scaling of bonus damage vs remaining HP changed. The net result was to make it ONLY hit hard against low HP targets - as originally intended.
It was in a post from a dev that I can't track down. Base damage reduced by 30% and the scaling of bonus damage vs remaining HP changed. The net result was to make it ONLY hit hard against low HP targets - as originally intended.
OH well i have a one more trick to show eventually, thanks for the reporting
It was in a post from a dev that I can't track down. Base damage reduced by 30% and the scaling of bonus damage vs remaining HP changed. The net result was to make it ONLY hit hard against low HP targets - as originally intended.
Interesting, so it is basically going to be a Daily power that will Almost be as good against low HP targets as an Encounter power. That makes perfect sense.
Edit: I just noticed you said "...vs remaining HP changed." I read it as "...vs remaining HP unchanged". If it is increased significantly enough then it may even become viable in PVE.
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mentaltelepathyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 15Arc User
The few experiences i got on preview with module 3 are that SE still hits like a truck and kills you at around 25% HP, but above that value, for example at 50% HP, it hits a lot less hard. Can't confirm BTW.
Being able to take down a tank at 25% HP is enough for a daily. 50% HP or full health kills are nonsense for any class, and i think anyone would agree about this.
To the ones complaining about TR nerfs: TRs in PvP are strong, stop complaining and fooling yourselves saying poor TRs got nerfed too much. Right now, hybrid perma TRs with bilethorn are up there with sentinel tank Iron Vanguards and strong HRs.
Each one of these classes have a build needed to be competitive in PvP. IV sentinel tank for GWF, for example. For TR, it's hybrid permastealth with bilethorn/ PoB whatever it is. And it's a very, very VERY strong build, very hard to face even for experienced PvPers.
I see more and more of these guys being able to consistently shift the balance of a pug match trolling multiple enemies on their base point.
You were not overnerfed, you are not a poor weak PvP class. TRs in their current state are a STRONG class for PvP, if not the strongest, when well built and used. Period.
This. It's 100% true. The people defending SE are either rogues (who know better) or players that lack experience and time in Neverwinter PvP.
Interesting, so it is basically going to be a Daily power that will Almost be as good against low HP targets as an Encounter power. That makes perfect sense.
indeed. with this nerf, lashing definitely hits harder than every rogue daily now. oh well, guessing whirlwind of blades is next since the damage is now on-par with execution and it's an undodgeable, instantaneous aoe?
It's the only damage move, that ignore DR, Deflection, Damage immunity and Tenecity. That such a combo is broken is simple.
I got as GF with over 80% life a 20k+ SE A TR can improve his damage with a few damage buff(one encounter or it's a passive?). Then artifacts, then stealth(grant CA!). So. With such a combo, you even get a silly 3k base damage power up to 20!k. And this is totally HP lose! No way to avoid it except only GF, but he can be dazed/smoked before. How can this be fair? No other class has an uncounterable damage skill like this. It's simple not the damage. Its undodgeable damage, that suck.
The few experiences i got on preview with module 3 are that SE still hits like a truck and kills you at around 25% HP, but above that value, for example at 50% HP, it hits a lot less hard. Can't confirm BTW.
Being able to take down a tank at 25% HP is enough for a daily. 50% HP or full health kills are nonsense for any class, and i think anyone would agree about this.
To the ones complaining about TR nerfs: TRs in PvP are strong, stop complaining and fooling yourselves saying poor TRs got nerfed too much. Right now, hybrid perma TRs with bilethorn are up there with sentinel tank Iron Vanguards and strong HRs.
Each one of these classes have a build needed to be competitive in PvP. IV sentinel tank for GWF, for example. For TR, it's hybrid permastealth with bilethorn/ PoB whatever it is. And it's a very, very VERY strong build, very hard to face even for experienced PvPers.
I see more and more of these guys being able to consistently shift the balance of a pug match trolling multiple enemies on their base point.
You were not overnerfed, you are not a poor weak PvP class. TRs in their current state are a STRONG class for PvP, if not the strongest, when well built and used. Period.
As someone who strongly demanded a nerf for GWFs prior to the current incarnation of GWFs, as well as a TR myself, in my good conscience I must agree with this. The number of nerfs we TRs received is irrelevant. If something is OP, then its OP. No exceptions, no conditions, no "but..."s.
That being said, straight nerfs across the board in certain skills/functions will only make the matters worse, shifting the weight around to the opposite extreme for an opposite tilt in balance.
TRs need an increase in (1) survivability, (2) direct combat efficiency, (3) CC efficiency while out of stealth, in compensation to the heavy, heavy stealth-dependancy being nerfed. Basically make it so that a TR has some tools to be able to protect itself and duke it out while being visible (hence, guaranteeing both the TR and the opponent a real "fight") , if they are going to nerf stealth.
Currently, as it is, a TR that is exposed and cannot get back in stealth, is simply a dead TR. Can't close in , can't close gaps, can't attack anyone, proned, slowed, rooted, CCd all day long, and dead on the spot as soon as someone notices "Oh look, there's a TR.. he's visible".
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
Well, the new Cleric Artifact would be a great way to do it. It replenishes 100% of your AP gain over 15 seconds, and any TR with a Cleric alt will have access to it.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR
Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
And HOW exactly does that change anything I said...
What the hell is the point of a Daily power you spend tons of time building up... for a super powered hit...
Only to see it go... *squeek*. What the hell kind of Wuss PVP are you wanting? Are you afraid of having your "feelings hurt" because someone elses daily power actually killed you?
So... the question again... why exactly are you asking for a Daily to be nerfed... when the REAL thing you should be asking is why other classes dailys aren't doing that. Because that's the whole point of a daily is a super powered strike you built up to. Otherwise... whats the point of even having a daily power.
Because they sure as hell should be.
Anvil NEVER leaves my rotation and it is how I get 50% of my kills. I purposely use it as the closer in my rotation.
Also, Anvil is an encounter, so yes, people will be crapping themselves if GFs were one-shotting you with an encounter on 12-14 second cooldown.
I
I regularly survive SE on all three toons if I'm over 50-60% HP. I've never been one-shotted or anything near when at full health. And it's getting a base damage nerf in Mod 3.
Nothing to see here. Move along...
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
plz move along to nerf perma tr threads.nothing to see here anymore.
On Youtube there is a well known video of a german kid smashing his keyboard after meeting network difficulties to connect to his MMORPG, and then dieing in pvp in a matter of seconds.
Last night I was in a game vs a team of bad/low geared players and they had nothing on me, I was too tanky to die from anyone of them.
Well, I did die twice. Both times from the same crappy TR who SE me from 70% hp for 25k both times. Undodgable 1 hit kill in PvP? It's a joke and it's awkward as hell do see people try and defend it.
Anyway - SE is nerfed in Mod 3 so you can all stop crying now.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I fail to see how that is funny. I have been 1 hit killed from full hp by 30k+ SE as well. Not sure how pointing out how broken something is can be considered "crying". Should we just accept that one class has something silly OP and do nothing about it?
One would think that balance among classes should be prio 1 for everyone. But this game is notorious for having kids who only want the cheese/OP no matter what. Sad..
People stop complaining you asked for change and devs gave you change and now you complain more. How bout we nerf TR's til you can not call them TR/Rogues....
If this is directed towards me, the OP. Then please go, because you have the reading comprehension of a potato. I'm not complaining. If your post is directed towards the people comlaining is general, then I don't blame them.
I'm a rogue and still think Shocking is BS. IT SHOULD stay like this damage wise but should be DODGABLE. We already got stepped on too much by the Lurker's assault, Lashing Blade and Impact shot nerfs. But Shocking Exeuction has been broken for months, even over a year I think.
Being able to take down a tank at 25% HP is enough for a daily. 50% HP or full health kills are nonsense for any class, and i think anyone would agree about this.
To the ones complaining about TR nerfs: TRs in PvP are strong, stop complaining and fooling yourselves saying poor TRs got nerfed too much. Right now, hybrid perma TRs with bilethorn are up there with sentinel tank Iron Vanguards and strong HRs.
Each one of these classes have a build needed to be competitive in PvP. IV sentinel tank for GWF, for example. For TR, it's hybrid permastealth with bilethorn/ PoB whatever it is. And it's a very, very VERY strong build, very hard to face even for experienced PvPers.
I see more and more of these guys being able to consistently shift the balance of a pug match trolling multiple enemies on their base point.
You were not overnerfed, you are not a poor weak PvP class. TRs in their current state are a STRONG class for PvP, if not the strongest, when well built and used. Period.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Interesting, so it is basically going to be a Daily power that will Almost be as good against low HP targets as an Encounter power. That makes perfect sense.
Edit: I just noticed you said "...vs remaining HP changed." I read it as "...vs remaining HP unchanged". If it is increased significantly enough then it may even become viable in PVE.
This. It's 100% true. The people defending SE are either rogues (who know better) or players that lack experience and time in Neverwinter PvP.
indeed. with this nerf, lashing definitely hits harder than every rogue daily now. oh well, guessing whirlwind of blades is next since the damage is now on-par with execution and it's an undodgeable, instantaneous aoe?
tr walks up to dc in stealth, lash lash lash - throws a couple of daggers, takes 20% health off of dc.
dc attacks once or twice with astral seal - smoke bomb, - can't do anything else.
tr hits dc a few more times - takes 10% more damage off.
goes to land SE - dc dodges
attempt to land se a second time - dc doges
dc gets another astral seal attack in, tr attempts SE a 3rd time - dc dodges.
out of stamina - maybe get an encounter or two off - SE finally lands. dead dc.
These kinds of things can be very dull. I like counterplay in my games. Ty.
I got as GF with over 80% life a 20k+ SE A TR can improve his damage with a few damage buff(one encounter or it's a passive?). Then artifacts, then stealth(grant CA!). So. With such a combo, you even get a silly 3k base damage power up to 20!k. And this is totally HP lose! No way to avoid it except only GF, but he can be dazed/smoked before. How can this be fair? No other class has an uncounterable damage skill like this. It's simple not the damage. Its undodgeable damage, that suck.
As someone who strongly demanded a nerf for GWFs prior to the current incarnation of GWFs, as well as a TR myself, in my good conscience I must agree with this. The number of nerfs we TRs received is irrelevant. If something is OP, then its OP. No exceptions, no conditions, no "but..."s.
That being said, straight nerfs across the board in certain skills/functions will only make the matters worse, shifting the weight around to the opposite extreme for an opposite tilt in balance.
TRs need an increase in (1) survivability, (2) direct combat efficiency, (3) CC efficiency while out of stealth, in compensation to the heavy, heavy stealth-dependancy being nerfed. Basically make it so that a TR has some tools to be able to protect itself and duke it out while being visible (hence, guaranteeing both the TR and the opponent a real "fight") , if they are going to nerf stealth.
Currently, as it is, a TR that is exposed and cannot get back in stealth, is simply a dead TR. Can't close in , can't close gaps, can't attack anyone, proned, slowed, rooted, CCd all day long, and dead on the spot as soon as someone notices "Oh look, there's a TR.. he's visible".
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'